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I seem to recall Hogan did the Triple H thing where he had the NWO theme for promos, then Voodoo Chile for his matches. Which was probably done for money reasons, but it did make his matches seem more special.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:13
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DeathChicken posted:Which year was the one Mr. Perfect returned? That was amazing. Wasn't he still able to do the gum swat even though he was being choked on the ropes?
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Sep 11, 2013 15:15
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Yes. It was perfect.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:40
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Just saw a pic of another Rybully victim in the spoiler thread and once reminded of Drake Younger as the victim a couple weeks ago and once was wondering, since he had another appearance tending to Drake after he was attacked, how often has Joey Ryan been seen on WWE television now? I realise he does a lot of mocap work for WWE games (and probably earns more money for that than for the entirety of his TNA run), but it seems to me like he has the most WWE appearances than any other Indy wrestler, or heck, even contracted talent like Braden Walker. He was on Smackdown a couple weeks ago, was a plant at Summerslam last year when Henry speared Sheamus through the ringside barricade, was sleazing around in the background when Miz as champ was walking to the ring and got destroyed twice by Big Show on Smackdown. I'm pretty sure there were a few more matches in which he jobbed, but were there also more background cameos by him?
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Sep 11, 2013 15:43
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The 1995 Rumble at least has a good story throughout. The lovely roster and 60 second intervals hurt it though. 1999 was probably the worst. I didn't like the 40 man Rumble either, but I may be in the minority on that.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:04
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My favorite part of the 1992 Rumble wasn't even the Flair madness, it was Jake Roberts entering, then every time someone's number would come up, he'd stop and stare and make sure it wasn't Savage. When Savage finally showed up he jumped out and hid under the ring.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:29
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2006 was a bad Rumble. I've just committed to actually purchasing DVDs and wanted to make sure I got the best ones first. Edit: DeathChicken posted:My favorite part of the 1992 Rumble wasn't even the Flair madness, it was Jake Roberts entering, then every time someone's number would come up, he'd stop and stare and make sure it wasn't Savage. When Savage finally showed up he jumped out and hid under the ring. This was great. I also enjoy Barry Darsow just fully embracing the Repo Man character.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:40
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DeathChicken posted:My favorite part of the 1992 Rumble wasn't even the Flair madness, it was Jake Roberts entering, then every time someone's number would come up, he'd stop and stare and make sure it wasn't Savage. When Savage finally showed up he jumped out and hid under the ring. I totally forgot about that! Yet another example of how Jake basically held a PHD in ring psychology. He was a master of "the little things".
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Sep 11, 2013 16:46
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Can one of you WWF/E historians helps me out with this? How did the Federation handle the Million Dollar Man's transition from wrestler to manager? Also, how did his organization eventually end. I know near the end of his stint with WWF, he was only working with Austin (I think).
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Sep 11, 2013 18:41
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I only know this from reading a recent Observer back issue, but he lost a match to Savio Vega which if he lost meant the Million Dollar Man wasn't his manager anymore (I think was fired). Austin lost and then cut a promo about how he was glad he lost because he didn't need DiBiase.
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Sep 11, 2013 18:47
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He was gone for about a year after his feud with Razor Ramon, then when he came back he was a manager, doing the angle where he was buying various people's contracts (like Nikolai Volkoff for dirt cheap).
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Sep 11, 2013 18:48
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In 2000, did the WWF try to solicit Rulon Gardner to become a professional wrestler and enter a program with Kurt Angle? I vaguely remember reading reports about this happening, but I was like twelve at the time.
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Sep 11, 2013 18:55
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Castomira posted:In 2000, did the WWF try to solicit Rulon Gardner to become a professional wrestler and enter a program with Kurt Angle? I vaguely remember reading reports about this happening, but I was like twelve at the time. Rulon Gardner got a WWF offer after the Olympics but they wanted him to send him to Les Thatcher before they guaranteed him significant money and that wasn't happening.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:04
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I'd really like someone to explain Joker Sting to me. Did he actually call himself that? If you don't give me a detailed explanation, I will watch TNA to find out. Can you have that on your conscience?
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Sep 11, 2013 19:58
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Halloween Jack posted:I'd really like someone to explain Joker Sting to me. Did he actually call himself that? If you don't give me a detailed explanation, I will watch TNA to find out. Can you have that on your conscience? This just happened in the WCW thread: Solomonic posted:
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Sep 11, 2013 20:12
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If Natalie Portman dies, does that mean we get to see Black Swan Sting?  Rodney the Piper posted:This was great. I also enjoy Barry Darsow just fully embracing the Repo Man character. True story: When I was a kid I didn't know about gimmick repackaging, but I had been a big fan of Demolition. Repo Man was beating someone up in the ring and yelled, "I'm gonna kick yer stinkin' teeth in!" which is something Smash used to say. I recognized it, then I recognized him, and that was the day kayfabe died.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:32
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VogeGandire posted:2001 was a drat good rumble too, just for Kane looking like a legitimate badass. THIS I love the hardcore segment, good memories of Raven and Al Snow having some sort of protracted feud that spanned quite a few Smackdowns. Bowling ball to the nuts is a pretty good spot. As much as Raven gets fantasy booked and what if-ed I think 2001 Raven was pretty cool, just left to his own devices in the Hardcore division and that Wrestlemania 3-way with him, Kane and Big Show was great to just see him being launched around. So yeah either 2000 or 2001 Royal Rumbles are my favourites, that may be nostalgia fueled though.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:35
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sticklefifer posted:True story: When I was a kid I didn't know about gimmick repackaging, but I had been a big fan of Demolition. Repo Man was beating someone up in the ring and yelled, "I'm gonna kick yer stinkin' teeth in!" which is something Smash used to say. I recognized it, then I recognized him, and that was the day kayfabe died. I remember feeling like quite the detective when I figured this out as a kid.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:44
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sticklefifer posted:If Natalie Portman dies, does that mean we get to see Black Swan Sting? Amidala Sting after the new Star Wars movies launch.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:48
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So speaking of Sting, in reading the WCW thread the "Sting: HOFer?" argument cropped up and it got me thinking. If Taker hadn't all of a sudden started having ****+ matches every year at Mania (hell let's make it easier and say he never returned to Deadman after Bikertaker) would he be in the same boat? I obviously think Taker should be a HOFer because he's my favorite wrestler ever, but taking off those glasses as best I can, I see some parallels between him and Sting. In terms of quality matches/drawing, I don't think it can be disputed that the last 10 or so years, many of which have been extremely limited (i.e. 1-3 matches a year) put Taker over the top, but hypothetically, what if he hadn't had this amazing twilight run?
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Sep 11, 2013 22:11
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SamuraiFoochs posted:So speaking of Sting, in reading the WCW thread the "Sting: HOFer?" argument cropped up and it got me thinking. If Taker hadn't all of a sudden started having ****+ matches every year at Mania (hell let's make it easier and say he never returned to Deadman after Bikertaker) would he be in the same boat? Undertaker has actually been in the Observer HOF since 2004, for whatever that's worth, and I don't recall him being a particularly controversial nominee.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:16
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jeffersonlives posted:Undertaker has actually been in the Observer HOF since 2004, for whatever that's worth, and I don't recall him being a particularly controversial nominee. I'll be damned. Shows how much attention I pay. Thanks jeff! That said, what put him so much over the top? I mean Taker was never a top guy or a top draw, was he? And in terms of workrate, it's only SINCE '04 that he's really been setting the world on fire. What's the difference? SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 22:22
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'll be damned. Shows how much attention I pay. Thanks jeff! Summerslam 98 was a huge PPV, 700,000 buys, nearly as big as that year's WM. For comparison this is bigger than Starrcade 97. His feud with Austin did well in 99 as well, including the biggest quarter hour in the history of Raw. He also had a really good house show run as champion in the mid 90s.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:33
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MassRafTer posted:Summerslam 98 was a huge PPV, 700,000 buys, nearly as big as that year's WM. For comparison this is bigger than Starrcade 97. His feud with Austin did well in 99 as well, including the biggest quarter hour in the history of Raw. He also had a really good house show run as champion in the mid 90s. Well there we go, I suppose! Thanks for the edification, gentlemen!
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Sep 11, 2013 22:34
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'll be damned. Shows how much attention I pay. Thanks jeff! For the "on the merits," Undertaker through 2003 is still a better candidate than Sting, pretty clearly once you look at it. Their high water marks are fairly similar, which probably comes as a surprise. But SummerSlam 1998 with the big Steve Austin vs. Undertaker match did an enormous number, about 700k, which was, wait for it, more than the 650k that WCW drew for Starrcade 1997. But Undertaker blows Sting away when you at the "mediums" and "lows." Undertaker, for pretty much all of the 1990s, rotated through WWF's main event scene, usually either in the key program or the B house show tour main event drawing very well at the houses (or later after that was not a thing, the second or third match from the top) - and when they rotated him into the top programs, they were not a failure. He was one of the few guys that drew at the houses well with Warrior. He did a good Survivor Series number with Hogan. His matches with Bret did well. His program with Yokozuna did reasonably well. The Undertaker vs. Undertaker match - as bad a storyline and match as that was - did a pretty good number for the time. The Ministry of Darkness stuff did crazy good ratings. He was a part of a lot of the key stuff in the year before the Invasion that did well, as Bikertaker. His 2002 runs with Hogan and Lesnar did fine for B PPVs in the time period. Even the Vince match is a plus. This is a guy with a long record of doing not gangbusters business, but at least good business. Sting doesn't have nearly this many successful programs. Meanwhile, Undertaker never had the low points Sting has had, which are basically late-WCW and TNA. Undertaker had some lovely, lovely midcard feuds in the mid-1990s, but he was never, after becoming Undertaker, an unimportant part of an unimportant company, which is exactly what Sting has been for most of the last 15 years. And then you throw in the gimmick, which was truly groundbreaking stuff for the early-1990s. And it's just not much of a comparison IMO. eta: Dammit MRT already made most of these points. drat you! 
oldfan fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 22:35
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jeffersonlives posted:For the "on the merits," Undertaker through 2003 is still a better candidate than Sting, pretty clearly once you look at it. Truly grateful for the depth of the response though, jeff. Didn't go to waste, as I had no idea that the mid-90's Taker stuff was so solid. It's only since late '98 I started watching stuff as it happened, and only since '03 or '04 that I started to learn about/follow the business side of wrestling, so a lot of this is new to me.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:41
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'll be damned. Shows how much attention I pay. Thanks jeff! I think it helps that Undertaker's limited working schedule lets him come into his big match(es) fairly rested and prepared, and he can probably lay out the match really well ahead of time. Plus, with the extra time spent building up his WrestleMania match, it brings more hype/tension/mystique, and they have at least a month to flesh some sort of feud out.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:41
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Red posted:I think it helps that Undertaker's limited working schedule lets him come into his big match(es) fairly rested and prepared, and he can probably lay out the match really well ahead of time. Plus, with the extra time spent building up his WrestleMania match, it brings more hype/tension/mystique, and they have at least a month to flesh some sort of feud out. Oh, no doubt, I meant the difference between Taker and Sting, not so much his workrate. Still, that's another good point/conversation to have. Has anybody really revolutionized/reinvented/started firing on all cylinders as they were slowing down the way Taker has? It's fascinating. In terms of workrate, Taker's career trajectory has kinda been the reverse of what you'd expect.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:45
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Oh, no doubt, I meant the difference between Taker and Sting, not so much his workrate. Still, that's another good point/conversation to have. Has anybody really revolutionized/reinvented/started firing on all cylinders as they were slowing down the way Taker has? It's fascinating. In terms of workrate, Taker's career trajectory has kinda been the reverse of what you'd expect. He started quietly getting very good at ring psych in about 1996 or 1997, which was obscured for a very long time because he was often put in with poor workers or guys he had poor chemistry with, and past that was often put in positions where he was just not going to have great matches. Of course now he's really only put in those positions, only with guys that can go, and presented as a supremely important thing.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:48
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jeffersonlives posted:He started quietly getting very good at ring psych in about 1996 or 1997, which was obscured for a very long time because he was often put in with poor workers or guys he had poor chemistry with, and past that was often put in positions where he was just not going to have great matches. Of course now he's really only put in those positions, only with guys that can go, and presented as a supremely important thing. True. I just think it's kind of cool how despite age/injuries Taker has seemed to manage to get better and really peak at the end, though you're absolutely right that the importance of other variables (opponents, stage, etc.) can't be ignored either.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:51
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I sometimes wonder if Taker wasn't good earlier and we just didn't know because of all those terrible people he feuded with.
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Sep 11, 2013 23:01
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Basically, I've always seen Undertaker as a safe option for anything. He turned pretty much any angle involving him into at least a moderate success.El Gallinero Gros posted:I sometimes wonder if Taker wasn't good earlier and we just didn't know because of all those terrible people he feuded with. To be fair, the Taker gimmick is a great way to cover that. I mean, look at him back in 91 or so. He basically didn't need to have ANY skill. He had managers to speak for him, he didn't need to bump or sell, people were told to sell like death for him. They could have stuck ANYONE reasonably threatening in that role and it would have been decent.
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Sep 11, 2013 23:14
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Was anyone else considered for the Undertaker character before Mean Mark?
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Sep 11, 2013 23:15
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I sometimes wonder if Taker wasn't good earlier and we just didn't know because of all those terrible people he feuded with.
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Sep 12, 2013 00:21
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Having just discovered the glory of Stan Hansen being a stiff-as-gently caress maniac, can someone refer me to a few must-see matches outside of Hansen/Kobashi? Additionally, are there any other dudes along Stan's lines that I should give a shot?
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Sep 12, 2013 01:33
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Lost Rivell posted:Having just discovered the glory of Stan Hansen being a stiff-as-gently caress maniac, can someone refer me to a few must-see matches outside of Hansen/Kobashi? Pretty much any of those Hansen singles or tags with Hansen against any combination of Kobashi, Misawa, Gordy, Dr. Death, or Kawada from like 90ish to 94ish will probably be up your alley, since it sounds like that's what you're looking for since they're pretty much all ****+ and stiff. Alternately, this is his other Meltzer ***** match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpwvApRdfaU And here's him getting probably the best technical match Hulk Hogan ever had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EZveIuA_hg oldfan fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Sep 12, 2013 |
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Sep 12, 2013 01:41
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sticklefifer posted:True story: When I was a kid I didn't know about gimmick repackaging, but I had been a big fan of Demolition. Repo Man was beating someone up in the ring and yelled, "I'm gonna kick yer stinkin' teeth in!" which is something Smash used to say. I recognized it, then I recognized him, and that was the day kayfabe died. If I recall correctly, my kayfabe died when my parents saw me crying during the "Earthquake crushes Hogan's ribs with Dino Bravo cheering in the background" montages, and felt the need to explain to me then and there that Hogan didn't need me to send him a Get Well card, because he was probably just on vacation.
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Sep 12, 2013 02:42
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Lost Rivell posted:Having just discovered the glory of Stan Hansen being a stiff-as-gently caress maniac, can someone refer me to a few must-see matches outside of Hansen/Kobashi? I like his AWA matches with Rick Martel. After sitting through Greg Gagne promos, Hansen's chair-throwing created a pretty exciting atmosphere, and I liked the pretty boy/shitkicker pairing. I feel like a lot of AWA from that time is worth looking up, fyi - Hennig, Hall, and some old timers do some good stuff. It's not Japan, but at least you can understand the announcers.
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Sep 12, 2013 02:45
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Two questions: has a title ever changed hands on an audible? The post-WM Raw from this year comes to mind for the IC title, that seemed like an odd thing to do, story-wise. Has a world title ever been won unplanned because of audience reaction? I assume RVD was always planned to go over Cena at ONS but they could have had serious problems with that crowd if he hadn't. Second question: no Punchsport Podcast this week? I like those 
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Sep 12, 2013 03:41
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Lost Rivell posted:Having just discovered the glory of Stan Hansen being a stiff-as-gently caress maniac, can someone refer me to a few must-see matches outside of Hansen/Kobashi? Apologies if you've already seen these.
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Sep 12, 2013 03:47
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