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I really prefer it when I get to decide how I want to play, not whatever the game considers balanced or thoughtful. A good game really shouldn't have bad abilities that aren't worth using in the first place, instead of ham-handedly making them relevant this way. It's what I really don't like about current roguelikes like ToME4 or Qud... you get so much stuff that you have to use, whether you want to or not, because you're arbitrarily just not allowed to use the abilities you actually like for x turns or whatever. The way you end up having a skill rotation that you keep repeating over and over, because that's how the cooldowns fit together, makes me feel like I'm playing an MMO.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:59
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On the other hand, spamming Fireball over and over seems kind of boring to me.
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Sep 16, 2013 03:06
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Unormal posted:Spice-time vortex can be dangerous, but it eats anything at all, so it has it's upsides. I know this is a typo, but this gives me some awesome thoughts about Dune.
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Sep 16, 2013 04:36
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Cardiovorax posted:I really prefer it when I get to decide how I want to play, not whatever the game considers balanced or thoughtful. A good game really shouldn't have bad abilities that aren't worth using in the first place, instead of ham-handedly making them relevant this way. The abilities aren't necessarily "not worth using in the first place", though. It might just be that you haven't put as many points in them as in your other abilities, or you don't have the right stats to make best use of them on this character.
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Sep 16, 2013 07:26
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Well, no, there are also good games where every ability is worth using. I know it's a matter of taste, but what I meant is, I'd rather have the choice about which ability to use in an encounter rather than having to use nr. 5 every time because, well, 1-4 are already on cooldown and the guy isn't dead yet. It makes me feel like the game doesn't actually want me to make any informed decisions. You can't play a pyrokinetic in Qud, for example, because the cooldown on the power is 30 turns or so, far too long to make relying on it in any regular way possible. You either get as many powers as possible or you might as well be playing a fighter. That's a problem that, say, Crawl absolutely doesn't have. Want to invest in one skill to the exclusion of everything else? You can do that, the only thing stopping you are enemy immunities. It makes me feel like I've got much more freedom as a player. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Sep 16, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 10:22
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Tome is pretty bad for the whole 'useless skill tree'/'must-have skill tree' thing because so many trees are locked to certain classes and thus certain predictable stat loadouts.
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Sep 16, 2013 10:51
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Cardiovorax posted:Well, no, there are also good games where every ability is worth using. I know it's a matter of taste, but what I meant is, I'd rather have the choice about which ability to use in an encounter rather than having to use nr. 5 every time because, well, 1-4 are already on cooldown and the guy isn't dead yet. It makes me feel like the game doesn't actually want me to make any informed decisions. This is why you take Mass Mind at character creation, use Proselytize to get semi-permanent allies to take out the chaff, and use delaying tactics to let your shorter (10-30) turn cooldown abilities come up while you're still fighting. Also in Crawl in the same scenario you'd probably just use Crystal Spear five times. Maybe a few hard fights require you to pre-buff with Haste or something and use Teleport Self to heal and channel more mana between attempts, assuming the devs haven't removed those spells or given them lethal doses of glow because tactics are OP. EDIT: Although I do understand your complaint -- it's pretty similar to the reason I refuse to play mages in ADOM, because I'm not interested in only using magic in 20-50% of my encounters and playing a really lovely fighter the rest of the time.
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Sep 16, 2013 16:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This is why you take Mass Mind at character creation, use Proselytize to get semi-permanent allies to take out the chaff, and use delaying tactics to let your shorter (10-30) turn cooldown abilities come up while you're still fighting. Last time I played LCS was nerfed with a fat miss chance. Thing I hate most about crawl is that tendency.
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Sep 17, 2013 00:23
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Stelas posted:Man, I wish I'd known on my win, I was rolling with items. I really like the instant death chance things, especially when they are attached to encounters that fit thematically. Like if you lose at the chess game or aren't strong enough inside the iron maiden. A good build I had was soldier and just beating everything I could, no quests just smashing. Anything that couldn't be smashed was to be fled from. It went well until a very bad draw of cards (like aces 2s and 3s ugh) meant a grenade trap got the better of me.
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Sep 17, 2013 00:28
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andrew smash posted:Last time I played LCS was nerfed with a fat miss chance. Thing I hate most about crawl is that tendency. This never happened. The spell is as accurate as it's always been. It misses a lot at low spellpower, but most spells in Crawl work that way. At reasonable power it doesn't miss very much.
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Sep 17, 2013 02:19
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IronicDongz posted:It's not just the console version now, new spelunky is on steam!
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Sep 17, 2013 03:46
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coyo7e posted:Does it have the same off-screen movement of the console versions, now? Because the PC version was REMARKABLY easier. Yeah its basically the XBLA version with a few extra features.
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Sep 17, 2013 03:50
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EvilMike posted:This never happened. The spell is as accurate as it's always been. It misses a lot at low spellpower, but most spells in Crawl work that way. At reasonable power it doesn't miss very much. I guess I take it back then. It's been years but I thought I remembered angry discussion to that effect around 0.8 / 0.9.
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Sep 17, 2013 04:22
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Geokinesis posted:I really like the instant death chance things, especially when they are attached to encounters that fit thematically. Like if you lose at the chess game or aren't strong enough inside the iron maiden. I like that they're there - and that there are tarot cards that provide a defence from them. But they really can be frustrating on those times you roll up a bunch of 2s in your hand. quote:A good build I had was soldier and just beating everything I could, no quests just smashing. Anything that couldn't be smashed was to be fled from. My best games so far have all been starting out as a Thief with 2/3/3/1. Immediately spend your starting tokens and you can be at 2/4/4/1, then you've got the free weapon on top to get to 3/4/4/1. That's enough of an early spread of stats to deal with anything that comes your way and you can immediately start snapping up quests on top. Get Investigator Specialist to collect more wands attribute and a huge number of edges, then Talisman Specialist to get some pentacles and spells and even more edges. It's a shame that the archives don't list your inventory, but I ended up with more consumables and items than I could ever hope to use up and about 8 special tarot cards. My stats list 15 quests completed with a setup like this, and I'd have more if I hadn't lost my nerve and started to run downstairs before I really needed to. It's worth noting that you can find a ton of stuff to increase Swords and Pentacles, but not so much Wands or Cups, so buliding around that can help. Also, play on Slow at least once to get the hang of the house layout. e: Also, keep track of which items and locations are commonly used for quests. If you come across the red tapestry, for instance, don't just tear it down immediately. Leave it alone until you've got the quest, then deal with it then for much better rewards. Stelas fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 12:00
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Tower Climb is sublime. If you like Spelunky and are prepared for a bit of an acclimatisation period then you're in for a treat.
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Sep 18, 2013 02:24
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Did they not give out steam keys to people who bought Legend of Dungeon before?
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Sep 19, 2013 15:39
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I've been enjoying Tower Climb so much for the past couple of days I thought I'd write a bit about it. This game's charm, for me, is in its simplicity. It is loving hard and you will die a million times. The goal is to climb the tower which is split into a number of randomly generated stages with different themes but you're always going up (except when you're going down but that's a special case!). You always start with 4 jump potions, 4 explosive potions and 1 teleport potion. You also always start with 1 revive potion which will kick in automatically if you die except if you die in lava in which case GAME OVER. The jump potions will give you a (huge) double jump and can be stacked up to 4 times but if you take a fifth (including the jump berries scattered around) your heart will explode so watch out. Here's the inventory showing the 6 spaces for items and the potions you start with:  Chests can contain a variety of different items which I won't spoil but boots and greaves make you run faster (I usually drop these as the extra speed usually fucks me up) and gloves will let you climb faster and move faster while hanging (totally awesome and the best find for me). It's very important to pick up things like crates if you have room in your inventory because they can save you a jump potion in many cases. You can pick things up with the RUN key and throw them with direction and letting go of the run key. It's frigging awkward at first but you get used to it. Use the store button ('C' by default) to put things in your inventory and ctrl/space by default to cycle what you're going to use. You have to play for a bit to get a feel for how far you can drop and how far you can jump etc but when you do you can get really quick at reading the layout of a level, even when being pursued by rising lava or worse! The important thing to realise is that you cannot climb up around a bend from hanging. You can do it the other way, slide from a wall onto a hang but it's extremely hard to pull off.   Most often there is no time limit and you're free to climb all over the place looking for items and GOLD BERRIES! Gold berries are the currency of the game and, believe me, you'll kill yourself many times greedily trying to get that one that seems sooo close!  When you get berries, you'll need to find the Witch. She's almost invisible until you get very close but there's one on most levels. She sells only the things you start with but you'll need them ALL!! The most important thing is to ALWAYS TRY TO HAVE A REVIVE AT ALL TIMES. The kicker is you can only hold one at a time and they cost 4 gold berries.  An important thing to remember is that sometimes you WILL need to use an item to proceed so try to never be without at least a jump potion. See here:  In this case, a dropped crate would give you enough height to grab onto the central wall, a jump potion would get you up anywhere and, in a pinch, the blast potions can be thrown up to destroy the outcroppings on the left to enable you to climb straight up. You could also use a teleport potion but these are best used as a panic button if you know you're falling to your death. If climbing deadly heights wasn't dangerous enough there are several enemies which you have to look out for and learn their habits. Dogs lie almost loving invisible and rats just spaz around the place but both kill in one hit. There are several more but I won't spoil them.  If you start a level and see these:  then it's your lucky day (level!). They make life a lot easier but only appear randomly. They will fit through a single tile gap but sometimes you have to wiggle them. You can also jump on them to make them go downwards.  The game costs 6 Canadian Dollars and is apparently half done so far but I've been playing for days and haven't beaten it yet. The dev recently added an update which gives you a 100-level challenge with new crazy traps etc which you can access when you finish chapter 1 of the game. This is one of the best little games I've played in ages and I'd love it if more people would give it a try. Here is a playlist of a let's play some guy did where he goes from being a total noob to eventually being a little bit less of a noob http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL008650CEADFA5A7D Oh, in case you didn't read the manual: 
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Sep 19, 2013 18:42
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Also Towerclimb is extremely thematic. The graphics, music, and sound effects are so well put together that it creates an amazing immersive experience. I really need to get back to playing it after I beat Spelunky HD.
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Sep 19, 2013 18:51
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Agreed. I bought into TowerClimb several months ago, but haven't played it yet (since the alpha from some time ago), because Spelunky is just scratching that itch so well. But when I'm ready to set it down, hey, maybe TC will have finally hit 1.0. I'm actually really glad to see it's beatable, I had the impression it was just "go up until things get so hard that you die," like an old Atari 2600 game or something.
doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 18:54
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In Caves of Qud, does Fasting Way affect your sunlight requirements if you have photosynthetic skin?
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Sep 19, 2013 19:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:In Caves of Qud, does Fasting Way affect your sunlight requirements if you have photosynthetic skin? Yes; I see you're playing the classic ascetic cactus-man archetype.
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Sep 19, 2013 19:36
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Unormal posted:Yes; I see you're playing the classic ascetic cactus-man archetype. Pretty much. I'm play a sort of weird, mostly-physical-mutations version of an Esper. Flaming Hands, Electrical Generation, Photosynthetic Skin, Thick Fur. I didn't go pure Chimera because Narcolepsy is a million times less offensive than any of the 4-point physical drawbacks, plus I realized that Light Manipulation is completely unaffected by Willpower -- you only need a high ego to take advantage of it if it's your only mental attack. It basically plays how I wish gunslingers played -- no chance of missing, no penalty for having 2+ enemies in melee range, no ammo so you don't have to plan your entire build around Psychometry + Scavenger + Tinker or endlessly scumming the vendors. Plus with Flame Hands you can just wander out into the wilderness and torch Equimaxes for a few minutes and be level 10 before you even reach Red Rock. EDIT: I really think physical combat in general needs to be less random and deal higher/more reliable damage, but maybe there are lategame weapons or accuracy buffs I'm not taking into account.
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Sep 19, 2013 20:00
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Occult Chronicles win! A mild mannered accountant named Daisy defeated an alien invasion force! Pentangles was actually at 7 for most of the game due to having a Major Arcana that boosted them by 2 but I used the card to make sure of victory in the final encounter. Also my low health and -2 luck came about from attempts at breaking the alien doors down right at the end, necessitating the use of my other MA cards. For the additional backgrounds I took Melee weapon specialist for more swords and because I had the axe and crowbar and Athletics specialist to help with the basement traps. Most of my Pentangles came from items like holy water, manuscripts, a MA card and the familiar. Inventory (that I remember): Axe, Crowbar, Remington Shotgun, Candle, Cacodaemon Familiar, Holy Water, Pnakotic manuscripts. Feats: Whirldwind, Flash of Genius. Psychic abilities: The Third Eye, Vaporize Mind (super useful!) Spells: Visions of the Dreamer Injuries: Bruises all over, Broken Collar Bone. Feats: Iron Stomach 5/5 (Bonuses to horror checks.) Museum Curator 1/1 (Bonus for Puzzles/lore.) Capo Ferro 1/1 (Long blade bonus.) Mechanical Monster Slayer 1/1 (Chance to get extra sword items.) Nimble feet 1/4 (Avoid traps bonus) Raconteur 1/1 (Persuasion/deception bonus.) Dances With Ghosts 1/1 (Chance to avoid sanity loss.) Lightning Reflexes 2/4 (Avoid traps bonus.) Runner 3/5 (Physical Challenges bonus.) Occult Specialist 1/1 (Lore/perception bonus.) Sprinter 3/4 (Bonus to fleeing.)
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Sep 19, 2013 20:53
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So I'm starting to get back into Desktop Dungeons after buying the beta like two years ago and restarting since they've changed the structure of things and I just now noticed that the support the devs version (the one I bought for 20 bux) has a special class and landmark? I don't think I've ever seen these even when I used to play. What are they and how do you unlock them? The wiki isn't very helpful on that front.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:46
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Oh god a Madpool bit my feet off!  How do you get dismembered limbs back?
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Sep 19, 2013 22:48
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Oh god a Madpool bit my feet off! There's a few ways; an Ubernostrum injector is probably the most widely available.
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Sep 19, 2013 22:56
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You can get an ubernostrom injector as a reward for the "what's eating the watervine" quest in Joppa, I think. Alternately, (and much less reliably), you could just buy mutations until you randomly got regeneration.
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Sep 19, 2013 22:59
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Qudtalk: I refuse to ever walk near madpoles now. gently caress those guys. I do go out of my way to shoot the hell out of them, though. I think they still give 270 xp a pop into the 20s. Some bullshit is when I find myself lost and spawned into the middle of a madpole river. Some more bullshit is when I'm lost, spawned into a madpole river, a madpole latches onto me, and my Kickback attack pushes the madpole... and I get dragged with it since it's attached  Pretty funny, really.I can't give up Burrowing Claws. I can get myself to play without a carapace, but holy poo poo, being able to dig through everything, even chrome walls (which afaik is the hardest wall type in the game, or at least the hardest I've encountered) is so amazing if you're playing an explorer. I should just try flaming hands, because it looks awesome as hell. Maybe torching people every ten turns will make me less enthralled by constantly digging everywhere. On the note of mutations, even though Double-Muscled makes you slow as hell, which is almost a death sentence, holy CRAP do you stun people a lot. Like almost every other hit, it seems. Also, if you take Butchery and aren't adverse to eating almost every corpse you find, I've found that Ravenous (+3 mutation points, +67% more food need, blocks ability to take "need less food" skills) is basically three free MP. Someone was talking about how it's almost a perk because it makes sure you don't weigh yourself down with food, and I agree; if I start to get low on food, I just recoil somewhere and go hunting for a while. That said, not playing with Ravenous is nice, because you don't have to eat every corpse and you don't have to take Butchery (though it's only 50 sp which is really cheap). This friggin game, drat. I should just play through 5 characters that don't use my default mutation picks and aren't Water Merchants. I've grown my knowledge of the game a lot since I fell into the Turtle-Merchant build, so I should probably be able to get a crazed axe fighter up and running again. I'm also starting to feel like I can still be a tinker without Snake Oiler, since exploration yields waaaayyy more bits than shops; it just hurts not being able to afford a lot of nice data disks. Time to try a double-muscled axe-wielding heavy gunner  Unormal, I read through ObjectBlueprints.xml, and I need to know: are HitDice factored into attacks for the to-hit roll? Because if so, those should really be displayed values. You can go from a Bronze Dagger with its 1d4 hit dice, to a Prayer Rod with 4d6 hit dice; even without skills, reading the .xml it makes it seem like a Prayer Rod practically can't miss its target, unless that's just a relic of some other plan. Not that people would go from a bronze dagger to a prayer rod, I just mean there's a huge variance in the values I was reading. And pleeeeease tell me you're going to implement some of those talents, perks, and mutation-abilities soon, because they look awesome! Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 01:28
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Ibram Gaunt posted:So I'm starting to get back into Desktop Dungeons after buying the beta like two years ago and restarting since they've changed the structure of things and I just now noticed that the support the devs version (the one I bought for 20 bux) has a special class and landmark? I don't think I've ever seen these even when I used to play. What are they and how do you unlock them? The wiki isn't very helpful on that front. You get some sort of Goat person monster class with really weird mechanics. For instance, your conversion ability is a full heal, but you don't heal on level up. They also use a new resource called food. The game warns you they're for experts. The game also claims it gives you Goatman related quests, but I haven't purchased the building yet so I have no idea what they're like. I also restarted recently, and while you get access to the upgrade early it's really drat expensive for that part.
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Sep 20, 2013 03:02
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Unormal posted:There's a few ways; an Ubernostrum injector is probably the most widely available. Speaking of Ubernostrum -- my character just contracted Glotrot and Ironshanks (within seconds of each other, seriously what the hell?) -- my tongue fell out, so I used an Ubernostrum injector to regrow it. The description also makes it sound like it cures the diseases themselves, although like nearly every description in the game it's maddeningly un-specific. Anyways, when I talk to the merchant, I get the normal conversation options, but I still get the no-tongue prices. EDIT: Looks like it didn't actually cure the disease. 
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Sep 20, 2013 04:16
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Oh this is bullshit. I spend my entire fortune buying the book that tells you how to cure the disease, but even getting enough honey to delay it costs just as much, nevermind the full treatment. EDIT: And apparently you need desalinated amoeba slime, which is not just flavor text, but describes what you have to do to slime. With an item I have never even seen. Great. If the Ironshanks takes full hold I'm just going to solve this by wishing, this is possibly the worst gameplay mechanic I've seen in a roguelike outside of IVAN. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 04:26
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Oh this is bullshit. I spend my entire fortune buying the book that tells you how to cure the disease, but even getting enough honey to delay it costs just as much, nevermind the full treatment. I think that means don't let a slug get into saltwater. when you kill a slug (in the first cave, pretty deep), they shoot out shitloads of amoeba slime if I recall correctly. Or there's an amoeba down there. OR something.
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Sep 20, 2013 04:56
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notwithoutmyanus posted:I think that means don't let a slug get into saltwater. when you kill a slug (in the first cave, pretty deep), they shoot out shitloads of amoeba slime if I recall correctly. Or there's an amoeba down there. OR something. Nah, I checked the wiki. Desalinated slime is called "gel" and you get it by adding a desalination pellet to amoeba slime. I deleted the character anyways -- trying to wish for the cure by name gave me a new mutation instead, and I would have felt cheaty keeping it.
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Sep 20, 2013 04:57
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Wow, I've seen a desalinzation pellet exactly once, and I shopscum all the time. That sucks. I actually had no idea what it was, it showed up as an un-ID'd artifact on a vendor without ID skill so I bought it since it weighed 1 pound. That's... unfortunate. I've also only seen yuckwheat infrequently. The blueprints file also doesn't list it as a guaranteed drop off any creature, though there may at least be a guaranteed location for it somewhere. Or there should be, assuming the wiki is hopefully wrong and the ingredients to cure it aren't actually random every game, because that would be even more unfortunate.
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Sep 20, 2013 05:52
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S.T.C.A. posted:Wow, I've seen a desalinzation pellet exactly once, and I shopscum all the time. That sucks. I actually had no idea what it was, it showed up as an un-ID'd artifact on a vendor without ID skill so I bought it since it weighed 1 pound. If it had been either disease by itself I probably wouldn't be this annoyed. As it is, one of them puts you on a timed scavenger hunt before the game is functionally over and your character is ruined, and the other one makes it physically impossible to complete the scavenger hunt in time.
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Sep 20, 2013 05:55
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One more reason regen is so good; I assume the timer resets each time your tongue grows back. New water merchant, still a tinker, but more punchy: Burrowing Claws Electrical Generation Night Vision Regeneration Horns (Tusks! They randomize at creation, first I had antlers then got myself killed and got tusks! The differences are only cosmetic, far as I can tell) Ravenous Horns are pretty good. It's a 0-weight +1(I assume up to 3 like Claws) AC helmet that has a 20% chance of doing a shitload of damage + a powerful bleed. I killed an equimax at level 3 or 4 because I gored it with a horn before I ran away. Electrical Generation is also a great "oh poo poo" button early. It's fried several salthoppers that would've otherwise killed me (and also arced onto the aforementioned gored equimax, which I normally would not engage at 3). Ravenous is still ravenous. I farmed the watermarshes south of Joppa for glowfish corpses to have early food before trekking north to kill, loot, and eat every snapjaw I come across. Butchering boars along the way for later food, trippin' and whackin' people with my axes.
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Sep 20, 2013 07:29
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S.T.C.A. posted:One more reason regen is so good; I assume the timer resets each time your tongue grows back. Well, no, Ironshanks is the "timer" -- when the disease reaches it's full course you're immobilized. (Although apparently if you take the Jump skill you can inch forward... two tiles at a time, every 100 turns.  )Plus even when your tongue grows back, the merchant price malus is unaffected as long as you have the disease. I'm not sure if that's a bug or working as intended. S.T.C.A. posted:Electrical Generation is also a great "oh poo poo" button early. It's fried several salthoppers that would've otherwise killed me (and also arced onto the aforementioned gored equimax, which I normally would not engage at 3). I'm really unimpressed with Electrical Generation. It just doesn't do enough damage for a skill that can only be used at full power every 95-100 turns. Tack on the melee-only range and it simply isn't worth 4 points. I had a lot of fun taking Phasing + Heightened Hearing on melee characters -- the former is a great escape, and both together give you a much better chance of coming out somewhere safe even if you have to do it on a relatively unexplored level. EDIT: Part of what makes Phasing so good is that, while Teleport seems to give away your location to enemies no matter how far you travel, Phasing screws up their pathing (and gives you temporary invulnerability too, although I suspect it only applies to physical attacks.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 07:34
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I'd like to try Caves of Qud but it says it's a closed beta? Who should I talk to about getting in on this?
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Sep 20, 2013 07:48
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Turtlicious posted:I'd like to try Caves of Qud but it says it's a closed beta? Who should I talk to about getting in on this? I don't think it's closed beta, it's downloadable from here: http://forums.freeholdentertainment.com/showthread.php?10-Welcome-to-the-Caves-of-Qud-beta Is Regeneration percentage-based from your total HP, or is it a flat rate? I've avoided it as a crutch (because with characters who use a lot of offensive mutations plus a good escape option you should never be taking heavy damage in the first place), but my last few games I've had a lot of peripheral health issues that it apparently applies to. On an unrelated note, taking Carapance and Thick Fur on the same character feels so wrong from an aesthetic point of view, but makes so much sense from a min-maxing one. Especially if you also take "Spontaneous Combustion" as a drawback.
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 07:50
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Rapacity posted:Towerclimb Overall I think this mode is more fun than the default game, it's harder, but much faster paced and varied.
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Sep 20, 2013 11:33
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