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Djeser
Mar 22, 2013


it's crow time again

Adventure Pigeon posted:

In my game, it got stuck at the opening part of the lizards evolved from orcs bit, so for the rest of the game the dwarven ambassador kept spewing his line about the scientist and the general kept spewing his line about being offended over and over again. None of the other generals ever started their plotlines. In the end, it just felt like a boring political game tossed over a mediocre RTS. In retrospect, I probably should've kept my money for something else.

So you're saying it bugged out and locked you out of significant portions of the story elements, and therefore it's boring because you were locked out?

You probably could have even sent the save file off to Larian's QA and they would have fixed it. Like I'm sorry you missed the RPG talky bits because they were definitely the best part but wow.

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Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Djeser posted:



As a bonus, I just beat Act 2. I took both citadels solely through the TBS battles because gently caress those citadel maps.

This is what the final battle movements looked like.



In Chapter 2 I thought the citadel battles were pretty easy (when you take it, not so much with defending it) if you just crank out a fair few juggernaughts and shell the citadel from a distance. Couple juggs, couple ironclads, the palace falls pretty easily.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

Drifter posted:

That's so early on why wouldn't you just restart the game, or wait for a patch? Holy poo poo.

I'm pretty sure that only the first couple event are in a set order. You can tell which ones they are because they only modify racial popularity by 5% instead of the usual 10%. Once those are done all your events start popping up in a random order, so he could have been at any point in the game really.

Someone correct if I'm wrong, because I could be.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Adventure Pigeon posted:

In my game, it got stuck at the opening part of the lizards evolved from orcs bit, so for the rest of the game the dwarven ambassador kept spewing his line about the scientist and the general kept spewing his line about being offended over and over again. None of the other generals ever started their plotlines. In the end, it just felt like a boring political game tossed over a mediocre RTS. In retrospect, I probably should've kept my money for something else.

This is the kind of thing that you e-mail Larian about, or post on the Steam/Larian forums so they can help you. They will actually help you the best they can.


Patch notes for the next preview patch:

LAR_OCTAAF posted:

Divinity: Dragon Commander v1.0.55 contains the following changes:

- RTS follow behaviour improvements
- Kiting RTS AI by drawing units back should no longer be possible
- General Strategymap AI improvements (improved attacks & expanding)
- RTS AI improvements (making attack teams & pathfinding)
- Fixed a crash that happened on return to lobby vs three AI's
- Fixed a team/faction issue that caused instant win or loss when entering RTS combat
- Fixed a crash on next loading screen if client is returned to main menu from battle result (when host disconnects for example)
- Fixed issue with units disappearing after catherine decision (lose 10% of your army)
- Fixed issue with disappearing armies dues to saving between combats in the same turn
- There is now a setting for golden dragon on/off
- There is now a setting for golden jetpack on/off
- Golden dragon/jetpack stay visible after save/load
- Fixed an issue with gamespeed being incorrect after loading of savegame
- Fixed an issue where reserves counted for the entire turn (several battles in same turn had buildup of reserves)

Fixes for issues that will still be added before the next live patch:
- Black screen or crash when clicking Multiplayer
- Graphine / list.h / tiledtextures crash -- temporary workaround can be found here: http://bit.ly/12uVziP

This patch has a bug where Transports unload command does not work. You need to click the units portraits.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Aug 23, 2013

Djeser
Mar 22, 2013


it's crow time again

I was doing a little poking around on Twitter and came across something kind of interesting. I don't know how much Larian talked about the technology behind their engine, and I knew there was a bit of texture streaming going on, but this summary from GDC Europe talks both a bit about the tech they used and the people behind it.

What struck me was the connection between the texture stuff and the 'megatexture' stuff that id Software used in Rage. (I think it was Rage at least.)

Also, I noticed while zooming around the map that similar to how some of the 4-player skirmish maps have mirrored terrain, some of the 2-player maps that don't look mirrored actually are, and the mirrored portions are walled off behind the glowing barrier.

Technology! :science:

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Huh... Do the faction arcs have branches too?

My first play through I got up to 85% with the Imps, and turned down their first request, but later, other decisions got their faction reputation that high again, and they posed a different request which directly referenced that I turned the first one down.

This time, I'm going for the Imp faction arc, and approved their first request, and their second request is different than the one I got for turning them down the first time! That's neat.

Huszsersvn
Nov 11, 2009

Nice world you've got here. Shame if anything were to happen to it.

Yes. The lizard race will keep pushing for you to abolish the monarchy (the very system of governance that keeps you in power) if you agree to hold a referendum. If you refuse, they will take a different tack and attempt to minimize the empire's bureaucratic shortfalls and taxation burdens.

Copper Vein
Mar 14, 2007

...and we liked it that way.
Blitzed through this today. I took a cue from the Giant Bomb Quick Look and set the difficulty to Easy, since I don't normally play RTS games or Civ games, and choosing that difficulty may have been a mistake.

I felt like in every RTS match, either the AI rolled me inside two minutes, or my Dragon blew through the initial rush and then I just sent Armors at it. I think only twice, ever, did I play an RTS battle with multiple opponents.

There were units I never researched by the end of the game, and over half the Unit and Dragon Research menus were untouched, with over 500 points left to spend. The only buildings I ever constructed on the main map were Factories, Gold Mines, and Taverns.

I pretty much only built Armors in either battle mode, and never built air units and never used naval units in RTS. I bought all the passives for my Dragon, and only used the big offensive fireball and big regen AOE as active abilities. About halfway through the second map I avoided RTS as much as possible and and just mainlined Armors.

I never had any sense about how my standing with a faction was helping me or hurting me. Never understood how a particular faction population in a region was affecting my battle there. Never knew where my bonuses were coming from let alone how to get them. Never was made to understand what would happen in one faction's opinion got too low, or why I should care to make them like me.

Before long I was clicking through the on-ship dialogue as quickly as possible because it didn't seem to matter, and threw Armor all over the last map until, completely without climax, the wizard was telling me that it was time to destroy the ship.

I suppose I can't fault the game for seeming too easy, since I set it that way, and I am a little interested in what different choices involving the queen would net, so I might try another playthrough.

Overall, I just felt like the highly polished and fully voiced ship segments felt completely detached from the strategy of the game and didn't seem to matter at all, and I am really, really disappointed about that.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

Drifter posted:

That's so early on why wouldn't you just restart the game, or wait for a patch? Holy poo poo.

I realize it's frustrating, but I can't really bring myself to have any sympathy. At that point you just stop playing and wait for a patch or something. That's like saying "yeah, I went to see a movie but the screen went black and the sound cut out after the first 20 minutes, but I still sat in the dark and ate popcorn for the rest of the two hours. Man, I wish I hadn't gone to see the movie."

Like, I get, and somewhat agree that the storyline is absolutely shallow and undeveloped and the rts sections are probably best played against a non-AI opponent, but even so.

The game wasn't boring because it bugged out. It was boring because the RTS part is just dull. With regards to me not jumping through hoops to fix it, bear in mind I had no idea what that storyline would look like, except that it was there. It wasn't until late in act 2 that I figured out that there was something wrong with the game, and by then I was already getting frustrated with how little fun it was. Up until then, I thought they were just trying to spread it out or were waiting for me to trigger some other bit of dialogue to continue. More to the point, if the secret, shining part of the game is a small controversy between the dwarves and lizards about what came from where, then I'd say pretty much everything I said about the RTS being boring as all hell still stands.

This game is not good and not worth 40 bucks, and I'm not going to waste time trying to find secret bits of dialogue that somehow fix a mediocre system. Other people think it is fun and worth the money, but anyone still on the fence about buying it should hear both sides.

Adventure Pigeon fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Aug 28, 2013

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Copper Vein posted:

Blitzed through this today. I took a cue from the Giant Bomb Quick Look and set the difficulty to Easy, since I don't normally play RTS games or Civ games, and choosing that difficulty may have been a mistake.

I felt like in every RTS match, either the AI rolled me inside two minutes, or my Dragon blew through the initial rush and then I just sent Armors at it. I think only twice, ever, did I play an RTS battle with multiple opponents.

There were units I never researched by the end of the game, and over half the Unit and Dragon Research menus were untouched, with over 500 points left to spend. The only buildings I ever constructed on the main map were Factories, Gold Mines, and Taverns.

I pretty much only built Armors in either battle mode, and never built air units and never used naval units in RTS. I bought all the passives for my Dragon, and only used the big offensive fireball and big regen AOE as active abilities. About halfway through the second map I avoided RTS as much as possible and and just mainlined Armors.

I never had any sense about how my standing with a faction was helping me or hurting me. Never understood how a particular faction population in a region was affecting my battle there. Never knew where my bonuses were coming from let alone how to get them. Never was made to understand what would happen in one faction's opinion got too low, or why I should care to make them like me.

Before long I was clicking through the on-ship dialogue as quickly as possible because it didn't seem to matter, and threw Armor all over the last map until, completely without climax, the wizard was telling me that it was time to destroy the ship.

I suppose I can't fault the game for seeming too easy, since I set it that way, and I am a little interested in what different choices involving the queen would net, so I might try another playthrough.

Overall, I just felt like the highly polished and fully voiced ship segments felt completely detached from the strategy of the game and didn't seem to matter at all, and I am really, really disappointed about that.

I think you had the difficulty set too low, if you were able to blaze through the campaign so quickly that you barely researched anything. On a difficulty I find challenging, finishing Acts I and II - playing naturally, not farming - I had every single unit upgrade researched and a good number of Dragon skills as well.

It's not surprising that you only fought multiple opponents a few times. It's rare that 3 factions or more will be fighting over the same part of land, never mind with everyone standing a good chance to win it. The AI will use skills a lot better on higher difficulties.

Your standing with a faction affects your level of Support in RTS battles - your unit cap, essentially. It really matters if it gets too low, meaning you can field only a few troops at a time.



Adventure Pigeon posted:

The game wasn't boring because it bugged out. It was boring because the RTS part is just dull. With regards to me not jumping through hoops to fix it, bear in mind I had no idea what that storyline would look like, except that it was there.

This game is not good and not worth the money and I'm not going to waste time trying to find secret bits of dialogue that somehow fix a mediocre system.

So the exact same dialogue repeating over and over and over and over again didn't clue you into the fact that there was a bug and from that you thusly conclude that was the entire extent of the game's dialogue, and therefore, none of the dialogue at all was any good. Did you even bother to e-mail Larian about this bug? No, of course not.

You could have taken the time to shoot off an e-mail to Larian saying "Hey, I've got this bug, can you fix it". Sending an e-mail is hardly "jumping through hoops".

You didn't even say what you found boring about the RTS. Did you try increasing the difficulty of the RTS sections? Did you try the custom campaign settings to increase RTS unit costs?

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Aug 28, 2013

Copper Vein
Mar 14, 2007

...and we liked it that way.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Your standing with a faction affects your level of Support in RTS battles - your unit cap, essentially. It really matters if it gets too low, meaning you can field only a few troops at a time.
Unit cap? The only thing I ever saw like that was when the AI got ahold of a lot of Rec Centers early and chewed through the low population by making Troopers and froze me out. I never had the game telling me I had too many units in RTS.

Do faction standings affect region population? Is that tied in to the green +1 I often see on unit listings before the battle starts?


Are the world maps randomized in any way? The 2nd and 3rd overworld maps were just islands and strips of land which meant just about every single region was OK to park a battleship on, which I thought was dumb as hell.

Also, does the AI sometimes just say "gently caress it" and blow all their poo poo up in RTS mode sometimes? I swear I won games when the AI had at least one Rec Center left and a factory, but no units.

Copper Vein fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 28, 2013

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

I think you had the difficulty set too low, if you were able to blaze through the campaign so quickly that you barely researched anything. On a difficulty I find challenging, finishing Acts I and II - playing naturally, not farming - I had every single unit upgrade researched and a good number of Dragon skills as well.

It's not surprising that you only fought multiple opponents a few times. It's rare that 3 factions or more will be fighting over the same part of land, never mind with everyone standing a good chance to win it. The AI will use skills a lot better on higher difficulties.

Your standing with a faction affects your level of Support in RTS battles - your unit cap, essentially. It really matters if it gets too low, meaning you can field only a few troops at a time.


So the exact same dialogue repeating over and over and over and over again didn't clue you into the fact that there was a bug and from that you thusly conclude that was the entire extent of the game's dialogue, and therefore, none of the dialogue at all was any good. Did you even bother to e-mail Larian about this bug? No, of course not.

If you're too lazy to take the time to shoot off an e-mail to Larian saying "Hey, I've got this bug, can you fix it", don't expect much sympathy for your lost $40. Sending an e-mail is hardly "jumping through hoops".

You didn't even say what you found boring about the RTS. Did you try increasing the difficulty of the RTS sections? Did you try the custom campaign settings to increase RTS unit costs? I doubt it.


Your "side" is "I didn't see most of the content, so the game sucks!"

The only storyline that bugged out was the evolution one. It seemed like the diplomat/wife stuff continued as normal. It's kind of normal, if a bit annoying, for parts of dialogue to stall while plot catches up in many games. Especially when the rest of the dialogue continues as normal. If everything had stalled, I would've noticed. Anyways, If one dialogue storyline in an RTS game is the "majority of content" then it really has some serious design problems.

As for difficulty, I played it on medium. Some parts were hard, some parts were easy, but none of it was very interesting. As others have said, it's mostly an unending zerg rush with a few gimmicks like mass juggernauts.

Edit: Nevermind, it's not worth risking a probation. You're going over the top trying to defend a game from people that didn't like it.

Adventure Pigeon fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Aug 28, 2013

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Copper Vein posted:

Unit cap? The only thing I ever saw like that was when the AI got ahold of a lot of Rec Centers early and chewed through the low population by making Troopers and froze me out. I never had the game telling me I had too many units in RTS.

The unit cap is called "Support", so if the game ever told you "Not enough support", you hit the unit cap.

Support is shown in the top HUD element, next to the house icon. the number on the left is your current units Support cost, the number on the right is your total possible Support.

quote:

Do faction standings affect region population? Is that tied in to the green +1 I often see on unit listings before the battle starts?

The faction standings don't seem to affect population. The +1 is from Entrenchment, which means that the country has been surrounded by other allied countries and has higher defense.

quote:

Are the world maps randomized in any way? The 2nd and 3rd overworld maps were just islands and strips of land which meant just about every single region was OK to park a battleship on, which I thought was dumb as hell.

Also, does the AI sometimes just say "gently caress it" and blow all their poo poo up in RTS mode sometimes? I swear I won games when the AI had at least one Rec Center left and a factory, but no units.

World maps are not randomized at all. I'm not the greatest fan of the map design - Act 2's map is REALLY small for 4 factions - only 31 countries. I don't like Act 3's long narrow strips either.

The AI was probably out of money to make more units, which is why it surrendered, although it is supposed to also give up once it realizes that it can't win.


Adventure Pigeon posted:

The only storyline that bugged out was the evolution one. It seemed like the diplomat/wife stuff continued as normal. It's kind of normal, if a bit annoying, for parts of dialogue to stall while plot catches up in many games. Especially when the rest of the dialogue continues as normal. If everything had stalled, I would've noticed. Anyways, If one dialogue storyline in an RTS game is the "majority of content" then it really has some serious design problems.

As for difficulty, I played it on medium. Some parts were hard, some parts were easy, but none of it was very interesting. As others have said, it's mostly an unending zerg rush with a few gimmicks like mass juggernauts.

You didn't say that was the only storyline that bugged out. I can only read into what you've posted. You said none of the generals stories progressed, and the game "locked me out of significant portions of the story elements". I've never heard of anyone else encountering this bug. Only you can tell me to what extent you did and didn't see things.

If you felt it was too easy, you could increase the difficulty to Hard and the AI will use more abilities and use them well. If you think there are too many units, you can start a Custom Campaign (and get basically all the story elements), and increase the Recruit Costs to make units and buildings much more expensive to produce, thus reducing the number of units. The game is pretty flexible and lets you change a lot of the rules. The tools to change your experience are there.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:


You didn't say that was the only storyline that bugged out. I can only read into what you've posted. You said none of the generals stories progressed, and the game "locked me out of significant portions of the story elements". I've never heard of anyone else encountering this bug. Only you can tell me to what extent you did and didn't see things.

If you felt it was too easy, you could increase the difficulty to Hard and the AI will use more abilities and use them well. If you think there are too many units, you can start a Custom Campaign (and get basically all the story elements), and increase the Recruit Costs to make units and buildings much more expensive to produce, thus reducing the number of units. The game is pretty flexible and lets you change a lot of the rules. The tools to change your experience are there.

Yes, none of the generals stories progressed. After I finished, I read that was a major part of the game, which I found annoying I have no idea if that's because the one bugged out or if none of them triggered. The game was hard and easy in different parts. That wasn't the issue, the issue is the overall the RTS felt boring and tedious. The lack of autocast, both for inflicting abilities on enemies and removing effects on your own units (especially when the AI was so trigger-happy with them) was an annoying problem. I thought the dragon would be fun at least, but then I found that the difficulty controlling your army made it very difficult to use during major battles - especially when the enemy was spamming your units with fire rain and other AE abilities that had to be dealt with. It wasn't that the AI was particularly clever or that the battle maps were designed in interesting ways, it's that the balance between micromanagement and macromanagement was unpleasant and felt poorly done, and that made it difficult. Even the technology tree felt like it valued quantity of abilities over quality and relevance. This was doubly true since during any real battle I was usually too busy moving my guys around and trying to keep them alive while trying to keep a continuous flow of reinforcements coming to focus on actually using abilities. Now, I understand there's are plenty of options that can be used to change how a battle flows, but the philosophy that you should spend time doing tedious activities, in this case tweaking and testing, to make a game fun is a bad one. That, generally, is stuff the developer should do, or if they feel it will be a considerable part of gameplay, present it as option presets with descriptions of what to expect from each.

As for e-mailing the developer, if I had known it was a bug before I was nearly finished with the game I would've done something, but by then I was losing interest fast and really don't feel like repeating or delving further into the game.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth
Even as someone who really likes this game I can admit that the RTS battles are probably the weakest part. And the lack of auto-cast really just makes you avoid activated abilities in favor of passive ones. I basically just get bunker busters and mustard gas because they are both powerful AOE effects with long cooldowns for units you won't have very many of. That way all I have to do is hotkey my dreadnaughts and zeppelins and not worry about anyone else beyond A-moving them. I can't imagine that anyone commonly makes use of more than two or three active abilities types during a battle unless they aren't using the dragon at all.

It's a loving rad game though and I love it. I don't regret the $40 it cost me one bit but I can also recognize flaws where they are apparent.

Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Aug 28, 2013

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Don't get me wrong, I do have complaints about the game, and complaints about the RTS mode are perfectly valid. It hasn't got a good learning curve, the pace is faster than it needs to be, and there are some skills like Chemical Warfare that I don't bother using because they aren't auto-cast.

I'm just saying that there are ways to change how the RTS plays out, which changes your experience. I've tried the custom settings and RTS battles have a tremendously different feeling when units and buildings cost twice as much.

Things get a lot more interesting when the AI will charge you if it starts with a big advantage, things are less boring when the AI uses its abilities very well, and things are easier to control when you have fewer units to manage and fewer units to deal with. One of my complaints is that you can't change the rules in the story campaign at the moment.

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



I must be a very simply-minded person, since I usually enjoyed the RTS battles and I'm normally not into that genre at all. It just felt right for me. Are some people really saying they didn't like using their dragon to help their main army win a pitched battle? I can barely fathom that.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

Phlegmish posted:

I must be a very simply-minded person, since I usually enjoyed the RTS battles and I'm normally not into that genre at all. It just felt right for me. Are some people really saying they didn't like using their dragon to help their main army win a pitched battle? I can barely fathom that.

I'm pretty sure that not one single person has complained about the dragon outside of saying that it's OP. What gets some people are the actual RTS mechanics, several of which are clunky or outdated.

Koboje
Sep 20, 2005

Quack
Well, just beat the game, i quite enjoyed it, there were some oddities though like Catherine calling me a disgusting sexist pig, then after the next battle saying she was honoured to serve one such as myself and praised me for the support i have shown

Also a bit saddened by the fact that The last battle is literally the same as every other capital battle up to that point, maybe even easier since you will be using all your cards then and there

Still really fun, i found myself siding with the Dwarves more often than not simply because more gold is so so useful, even if it goes against the best interests of the people or what you would choose if money was no issue. Doing the moral/right thing, or doing the smart/beneficial thing, with some choices bound to end badly no matter what is chosen.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
Stabbey is going to shout at me again for saying this, but I'm really disappointed by this game. I've honestly tried to enjoy it, but I can't. It just tries to do too many different things and ends up doing none of them well.

It's really hard to say which part feels the least complete, honestly. The RTS mode is probably the easiest target, if only because of how many people have complained about it already. It's not the game's only weakness, but it's probably the one people resent the most, because it's not only tedious but also more or less mandatory. It's really, really primitive, is the biggest problem. It's real-time strategy on the level of the mid-1990s. Think Warcraft 1, not StarCraft. The only thing you can actually do is to blob as many units as possible and throw them at the AI, which will try to do the exact same thing. Micro is not an option because it's outright painful and the tools for macro-level play just don't exist. No repeatable queues, no formations, no map-wide zoom level. Resource management is rudimentary and building your own base isn't even possible.

The second problem is the Dragon Commander. In and of itself, the idea of having an in-game unit represent a major character - i.e. you - isn't bad. Many games do it successfully, most prominently Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2. The problem is that this isn't what they did. What they did instead was to include a half-baked third person flight simulator. Dragon mode is basically like playing a stripped-down Ace Combat game. What's worse, you can't do both at once. It's either RTS controls and no dragon or dragon and no RTS controls. The two gameplay elements actively interfere with each other. And you will always want to use your dragon, because an endgame dragon can wipe out small armies all by himself.

The whole idea could've probably been salvaged by just making the dragon a unit like any other. Send him around the map, use the abilities, all fine and dandy, at least it's integrated with each other. Alternatively, make a decent shooter out of it where you only control the dragon and assault enemy armies to get an advantage for auto-resolve, or maybe even destroy the army by yourself. Either would have been better than what we got.

Anyway, the turn-based strategy mode is also simple, but functional. It's not substantially worse than the Rise of Nations TBS mode, except that Rise of Nations had basically all the RTS gameplay of the Age of Empires series beneath that. Dragon Commander doesn't. You can move troops of units around provinces, build one building per province and play event cards. That's it. It's still anemic, but at least not actively out to annoy you. It doesn't even remotely begin to approach the complexity of a game like Europa Universalis or Dominions, though.

Last but not least is the most fun but also the most frustrating part of the game, the diplomacy. It's definitely the most enjoyable part of the game, because the characters you get to interact with are colorful and entertaining. Again, the problem is that it just isn't realized enough. The ability to interact with these characters basically restricts itself to a sequence of questions to which you can say either yes or no. There's not really anything in-between, you don't get to persuade, negotiate or intimidate, you get to say either yes or no. The throne room even boils it down to a simple thumbs-up or thumbs-down choice, but honestly, every other choice in the game could have been represented the same way.

The major downside is probably that you do not actually get to see the consequences of any of the numerous choices you make. Chose to instate the draft? Now units on the world map are twenty percent cheaper and the elves are angry at you. You'll never know it, though, because the only consequence of angry elves is a lower unit cap during RTS missions. There are no angry citizens writing you letters, no assassination attempts or satisfied conservatives sending you a fruit basket. Every choice you make essentially happens in a vacuum. A game completely centered just around the character interactions and their personalities would have been worth buying all by itself, but again, anemic. You can't even interact with the rulers of the enemy factions.

And, of course, it keeps getting interrupted by TBS and RTS sequences, because events progress only when you resolve a turn on the world map.

You'd think they'd have learned something about mixing genres from how badly the integration of dragon form and human form worked out in Divinity 2, but I suppose not. It's really to be expected; they tried to combine five games while having only the budget to fully realize one, so it's no wonder that the whole thing ends up feeling anemic and incomplete no matter where you look.

For what it's worth, the visual design of the Raven is really good and what dialogue there is is decently well-written. All in all, though, it's still not a recommended purchase.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Cardiovorax posted:

What's worse, you can't do both at once. It's either RTS controls and no dragon or dragon and no RTS controls. The two gameplay elements actively interfere with each other.

Small point, but that isn't completely accurate. While you're controlling the dragon you still have some rudimentary RTS controls. Using hotkeys, you can select and move units, and also build units and set rally points from production buildings.

It isn't quite on the level of controlling the battle with your mouse, and there are certain things you can't do (build buildings, use unit abilities), but it's slightly more than "no RTS controls," you can basically conduct a battle with it.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
You lose the control scheme that makes dealing with large blobs of units tolerable, though. You can fight a battle that way, but you really don't want to.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

I cannot get to grips with these RTS battles :psyduck: I know they're apparently oversimplistic and easy with terrible AI, but I am bad at RTS gameplay, especially with no ability to pause and issue orders. How the hell am I supposed to micromanage my warlocks without being able to pause and take my eyes off the imp fighters who may or may not be about to massacre my grenadiers? How am I supposed to know when is best for my grenadiers to use chemical warfare when I'm busy covering a juggernaut that's been turned into a beetle? Why is it that I sometimes enter a battle with 79% chance to win and all of a sudden my enemy sprouts a huge army of troopers and hunters from nowhere and steamrolls me by force of numbers? I DON'T UNDERSTAND

I kind of expected this, though, as I'm terrible at RTSs like I said, especially those without an option to pause time. I'm enjoying the game otherwise, but Christ. I need more tips.

ZeusJupitar
Jul 7, 2009

WEEDLORD CHEETO posted:

I kind of expected this, though, as I'm terrible at RTSs like I said, especially those without an option to pause time. I'm enjoying the game otherwise, but Christ. I need more tips.

If it's not too late in the game, I'd recommend restarting and focusing on upgrading your dragon first and foremost, buying new units but ignoring their abilities. I found the RTS combat too fast paced and too zoomed out to really make us of unit abilities, but quite easy when my strategy was 1. Build a mixed army (with emphasis on counters for whatever the AI is massing) 2. Group select everyone and 3. Shift to dragon and charge in. I found that the AI generally doesn't launch more than one offensive at once, so simply keeping everyone together in a blob with the dragon works well.

As someone mentioned up thread, the huge armies appearing is what happens when you bring in more units from the campaign map than you have initial support for. Once you capture more recruitment centres you can call in the excess dudes from their production buildings instantly and for free. This keeps the capital maps somewhat challenging actually, because no matter how big of an army you march in with you still have to face a huge entrenched force with only two citadel's worth of troops at any one moment until you can expand.

Nemesis Of Moles
Jul 25, 2007

So I grabbed this for my PC, wondering if it'd even play properly. Put on the lowest settings and it chugged and had this weird texture over the ground. I spent an hour tweaking it and junk and I have the game running fairly smoothly now! Except I can't get rid of those textures during the combat round. Its like a wireframe mode or something -


Any ideas?

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

ZeusJupitar posted:

If it's not too late in the game, I'd recommend restarting and focusing on upgrading your dragon first and foremost, buying new units but ignoring their abilities. I found the RTS combat too fast paced and too zoomed out to really make us of unit abilities, but quite easy when my strategy was 1. Build a mixed army (with emphasis on counters for whatever the AI is massing) 2. Group select everyone and 3. Shift to dragon and charge in. I found that the AI generally doesn't launch more than one offensive at once, so simply keeping everyone together in a blob with the dragon works well.



Also, in Dragon form you should be shooting at the back of the blob, not the front. Your units will be chewing the front up well enough, and you'll save more of them and do more damage by taking out the stuff that'll be replacing whatever they're killing.

(Also, as soon as you can afford getting Eye of the Patriarch for your dragon, get it. That skill owns)

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.
Has anyone who got in on the Beta and later bought the game been able to get the beta removed from steam? I remember someone in the thread talking about it and I'm wondering how it went because the steam support drone I'm talking too keeps telling me it isn't possible without removing the full game as well.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

King Doom posted:

Has anyone who got in on the Beta and later bought the game been able to get the beta removed from steam? I remember someone in the thread talking about it and I'm wondering how it went because the steam support drone I'm talking too keeps telling me it isn't possible without removing the full game as well.

I suspect this is some kind of bug with Steam. I didn't have the beta for this game, but I did have the beta for Stardrive. For me "StarDrive Beta" disappeared when the game launched, but just this week has mysteriously reappeared and is hanging out in my Steam list.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 19, 2011

Pet me.
Bought it recently and so far, as a man who is gay for Command & Conquer, I find the RTS a bit lacking. I found that I managed to bum rush a few encounters by buying so many Armours, invading and steamrolling a few areas before anyone can stop to build something past grenadiers. Because doing traditional building either left me in the dust to be destroyed by so many light infantry or lacking in resources right off the bat.

That armour cramming down throat didn't really work when I fought a capital city with another AI. The warlock spamming destroyed my entire Tank battalion in a few seconds, got frustrated, and quit. My main mistake was not building resource centers when I carved my path.

I was having fun with the dialogue though, I like the mo-cap, and the characters, I think all of my generals, the undead preacher and the dwarf republican are cool.

Not bad for a game that is trying everything. Last game that tried that as far as i know was spore, and I bought that full price on launch day. I am wondering if it was worth my money however.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Chomp8645 posted:

I suspect this is some kind of bug with Steam. I didn't have the beta for this game, but I did have the beta for Stardrive. For me "StarDrive Beta" disappeared when the game launched, but just this week has mysteriously reappeared and is hanging out in my Steam list.

I still have both, but StarDrive's ended up in its own category at the bottom of my list for some reason.

Tehan
Jan 19, 2011
Honestly they should have just axed the RTS and TBS elements right from the word go, invested in a team of artists, and just ripped off King of Dragon Pass' gameplay as hard as they possibly could.

Ludo Friend
Aug 2, 2012


I killed all the enjoyment of the RTS segments by dimpling making a blob and turtling. Nothing can get past your troops if they have dragon support, and the enemy eventually runs out of resources and then forfeits. It's easy wins, I just wish there was some counter to it from the AI.

Raze_Larian
Mar 31, 2013

Larian Studios

Ludo Friend posted:

I just wish there was some counter to it from the AI.

What difficulty level are you playing on, and how far into the game? The AI should start building anti-air units if you use your dragon, and use something like cloaked warlocks with Death from Above if you blob, etc (though the dragon is an effective counter to warlocks). Try a skirmish against an insane AI, if you haven't already.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

Is there any difference between the dragon types besides their free starting skills?

WEEDLORD CHEETO posted:

Why is it that I sometimes enter a battle with 79% chance to win and all of a sudden my enemy sprouts a huge army of troopers and hunters from nowhere and steamrolls me by force of numbers? I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Sometimes the AI will play a shitload of Mercenary cards at once.

Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Sep 12, 2013

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Really Pants posted:

Is there any difference between the dragon types besides their free starting skills?

Yes. From the FAQ:

The Mountain Dragon has the lowest health, highest damage, and fastest overheat. The Zephyr Dragon has the highest health, the lowest damage and the slowest over heat. The Sabre Dragon is in-between both. This does make a pretty big difference on higher difficulties and when facing certain unit types.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

Oh, there we go. :downs:

Does all this brouhaha with elf weed activists and lizard republicans etc. significantly impact the ending? What about influencing my generals to be slightly less terrible people? Will Rivellon suffer for my encouragement of Catherine's serial-castrating strawman feminism?

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth
So, I swear I heard at one point that there was a difficulty level above "hard" (presumably "very hard"?). Is this true? And if so is the only way to unlock by finishing the game on hard first? I didn't see anything about it in the FAQ so maybe I'm just a crazy person.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
New Blog Entry from Swen in which he talks about the lessons he learned from Dragon Commander.

The great news is that it outsold Divinity 2: DKS 3 to 1 and Larian will make profit from the game. The sales splits were like 85% Digital and 15% Retail.

The lesson Swen learned is that catering to retail is not worth the hassle. Retail outlets require a fixed release date, and committing to it forced them to refocus some resources at the last minute to fix a problem, meaning resources weren't going to other areas.

In the future, Swen is not going to announce a release date until after the game is done.

There's also a patch coming soon, and it is said to include some new features.

I haven't been playing Dragon Commander in 3 or so weeks, simply because I'd been playing it for like 2 months straight from the start of July to the end of August. That's normal and I usually don't play any one game for longer than that - whether or not I've actually finished it. New features will probably bring me back to check on them.


Chomp8645 posted:

So, I swear I heard at one point that there was a difficulty level above "hard" (presumably "very hard"?). Is this true? And if so is the only way to unlock by finishing the game on hard first? I didn't see anything about it in the FAQ so maybe I'm just a crazy person.

At this time, there is no difficulty above hard for single-player play, but there might be something like it coming at some point. I suggested "Demonic" difficulty to one of the developers, which grants all enemies full research and increased speed and damage buffs.

In multiplayer mode you can fight against Insane AI, which is at least as difficult as Hard, but the enemy can't run out of resources (that's why they're insane).

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 20, 2013

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

New Blog Entry from Swen in which he talks about the lessons he learned from Dragon Commander.


Man you report this like it's mixed news but in my book Larian making money from Dragon Commander and not giving a poo poo about retail is a double positive. Obviously the fact the they made money is good for those of us hoping for a sequel/spinoff, but I'm just as glad to hear they won't compromise future titles just to meet the demands of a distribution method I couldn't care less about and consider archaic. Even if it takes them longer and I'd rather wait for a better game. That's my opinion at least.

Also thanks for responding to my post.

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Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch
So as someone who is currently playing through Divinity II, how much does this game reference that and previous games? Or is it more just a general world and lore thing?

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