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Tomn posted:Are you sure you only have ten turns left? I usually find that whenever I fire up FotS I get some kind of brainfart where I misread turn lengths or the game year or something and end up rushing like a maniac only to find that I've a comfortable margin of error to work in. I don't know why it always happens - I guess I keep assuming they're vanilla turns. Yeah, I think I wasn't decisive enough in my tech tree decisions. It's October 1868 now, so I might have 16 or so turns left at maximum, and I don't have kneel fire. I also still use mostly wooden ships, with one or two copper plated ship. I also didn't really specialize my cities at all. At the beginning I needed to have every city capable of producing line infantry to help protect myself, and I never tore down buildings to make room for new economic buildings. So I probably missed out on a lot of money there, and I also never got foreign trading ports so no ironclads. Instead I had to keep up 3 or 4 fleets (I didn't want to anger the other Imperial clans even a little bit as I was trying to be very diplomatic this time around) to protect all my sea trading lanes and also provide some naval bombardment to support my land units. Also, holy poo poo. Naval bombardment is the best thing ever. I just wish I got more than 2 instances of it. Even if I have a massive fleet with 2-3 frigates, all I get are those 2 shots.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:09
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SquadronROE posted:Yeah, I think I wasn't decisive enough in my tech tree decisions. It's October 1868 now, so I might have 16 or so turns left at maximum, and I don't have kneel fire. I also still use mostly wooden ships, with one or two copper plated ship. Bloody hell, stop mashing 'End Turn' and start actually doing something. The start can be a little slow but after you have two full armies up (and more on the way) they should be leapfrogging each other and taking a province every other turn.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:22
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SquadronROE posted:Yeah, I think I wasn't decisive enough in my tech tree decisions. It's October 1868 now, so I might have 16 or so turns left at maximum, and I don't have kneel fire. I also still use mostly wooden ships, with one or two copper plated ship. You still don't have kneel fire at this point? Nor ironclads? There's your problem, then. Seriously, kneel fire turns line infantry from "slightly better than levy infantry" to "unstoppable murder machines", and I am really not kidding about ironclads being capable of single-handedly wiping out fleets (in manual battle, that is). FotS naval AI is basically broken. Also re: naval research, armor upgrades are very much a luxury tech - the offensive is much better than the defensive in FotS when it comes to the navy, and most of your focus should be on better shells (do you at least have explosive shells? I'm not kidding again about those things one-shotting ships). Also it's worth noting that you shouldn't get too worried about the bad guys simply raiding your trade routes - the amount lost is negligible. Worry about them getting close enough to blockade ports or land troops and place fleets strategically to prevent that (usually easy, given Japan's naval topography), but there's no need to plot an intercept just because they're raiding a trade route. I reiterate again, by the way, unless you're going for a gimmicky all-traditional playthrough, there is no reason not to max out modernization ASAP as long as you can keep a handle on public order one way or another. The tech bonuses are just too important. Also, don't sweat defenses too much - in forts, even levy infantry garrisons can see off most early attacks with only one or two line infantry shipped in from elsewhere as stiffeners, and if the enemy actually comes at you with a serious fort-busting army you're basically going to need another army to stop them anyways, not a slightly better garrison.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:36
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Alchenar posted:Bloody hell, stop mashing 'End Turn' and start actually doing something. The start can be a little slow but after you have two full armies up (and more on the way) they should be leapfrogging each other and taking a province every other turn. Yeah. I was way too defensive. I was constantly moving troops around and such, but it was mostly defensive moves and I waited way too long before making a push into the main island and really was too respectful of my AI allies. Lots of mistakes were made.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:37
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Speaking of Fall, how the hell do you get your economy up and running? I always feel like I can only make a purchase every 2 or 3 turns, and that counts units.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:43
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SquadronROE posted:Yeah. I was way too defensive. I was constantly moving troops around and such, but it was mostly defensive moves and I waited way too long before making a push into the main island and really was too respectful of my AI allies. Lots of mistakes were made. While you don't strictly speaking NEED to backstab people on your side to succeed, if you were deliberately not conquering Shogunate provinces to avoid the opinion penalty you were stepping waaaaay too lightly. The whole point is to become the Imperial Vanguard and you can't do that if you're small and weak. Beat the poo poo out of those Shogunate bastards and do it hard and fast.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:45
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SquadronROE posted:Yeah, I think I wasn't decisive enough in my tech tree decisions. It's October 1868 now, so I might have 16 or so turns left at maximum, and I don't have kneel fire. I also still use mostly wooden ships, with one or two copper plated ship.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:46
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Oh yeah, that reminds me - there's a skill in the general skill tree that can give you extra naval artillery bombardments and other neat things.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:57
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DerLeo posted:Speaking of Fall, how the hell do you get your economy up and running? I always feel like I can only make a purchase every 2 or 3 turns, and that counts units. Trade.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:09
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Tomn posted:Oh yeah, that reminds me - there's a skill in the general skill tree that can give you extra naval artillery bombardments and other neat things. I rarely got generals. I miss being able to just recruit them.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:10
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DerLeo posted:Speaking of Fall, how the hell do you get your economy up and running? I always feel like I can only make a purchase every 2 or 3 turns, and that counts units. I had a few trade cities. Specializing them early for growth over cooler units will benefit you so much late game. Just make sure to do it in provinces with gold mines and you'll be pretty set for late game. Its interesting to see so many people liking the cannons though. I like them, but I find I only really use them to gently caress up cav while my infantry does the main work.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:22
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Cannons are a must-have for sieges. If you can pop off enough rounds to make a gate or section of wall explode, you'll kill 30 defenders in an instant. If you're in a field battle (which is never), they're still pretty useful in breaking morale and softening up especially dangerous units (elite units, special units, high veteran scored units)
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Oct 7, 2013 16:54
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Cannons can actually fire farther than their range indicator says. If you take manual control you can easily snipe an enemy general at the start of a battle. It's awful and dumb, and you won't see it in the replay, but it's satisfying. Fall remains my favourite TW variant because there were so many alliances and conglomerates that you were guaranteed to see some coalition battles, which are hilarious. AI vs AI situations are the best.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:10
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SquadronROE posted:Yeah, I think I wasn't decisive enough in my tech tree decisions. It's October 1868 now, so I might have 16 or so turns left at maximum, and I don't have kneel fire. I also still use mostly wooden ships, with one or two copper plated ship. Ships are pretty expensive in Fall, so that probably wasn't doing you any favours. What exactly did your spend all your research on though? Were you just sitting around for most of your campaign? I've never been able to get timed out on a TW game because I get so bored with a few turns of peace that I start bullying any vaguely threatening faction I see.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:13
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Ships are pretty expensive in Fall, so that probably wasn't doing you any favours. What exactly did your spend all your research on though? Were you just sitting around for most of your campaign? I've never been able to get timed out on a TW game because I get so bored with a few turns of peace that I start bullying any vaguely threatening faction I see. I can't remember exactly, but it was mostly economic things. I was going for having a massive alliance that all pushed forward but my allies never pushed forward because they were actively defending their territories. Then I got so spread out that I needed a large navy just to keep my income up, and when I finally did create a nice forward military base I got stalled out because the enemy kept pressure on my provinces with full stack armies near my borders, forcing me to keep a fair number of units in my cities to dissuade an attack. I think in the next game I play I'll concentrate on miltary tech, not worrying about the penalties for modernization as much, and not be afraid to take over some smaller clans so that I have fewer borders to worry about.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:20
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So which DLC for Shogun 2 is recommended to get? All of them?
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Oct 7, 2013 20:16
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All of them are good but if I had to prioritize them: FotS > RotS > Sengoku Jidai Unit Pack > Ikko Ikki > Otomo > Saints and Heroes Unit Pack > Hattori and always throw in the blood pack 'cause it's cheap and actually adds a lot. The FotS faction packs aren't worth it unless you play it a lot; now that they're $3 instead of $5 I wouldn't call them ripoffs though, just keep in mind that they don't add anything new other than start positions and minor bonuses, whereas all the Shogun 2 faction packs have unique units or features. edit: here's a map for the factions in FotS if you want to look at them. Saga, Obama, Tsu and Sendai are the DLC factions. Koramei fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 20:26
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Is it just me or is every mod link on TWC broken? I'm trying to get FotS up and running again, but poo poo is unfixable.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:35
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Koramei posted:All of them are good but if I had to prioritize them: FotS > RotS > Sengoku Jidai Unit Pack > Ikko Ikki > Otomo > Saints and Heroes Unit Pack > Hattori and always throw in the blood pack 'cause it's cheap and actually adds a lot. Alright, thank you! 
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Oct 7, 2013 20:35
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Is it just me or is every mod link on TWC broken? I'm trying to get FotS up and running again, but poo poo is unfixable. TWC still is having issues? Try the STEAM Workshop for Shogun 2. Most of the solid fix and add on content mods are on it now.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:37
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Is it just me or is every mod link on TWC broken? I'm trying to get FotS up and running again, but poo poo is unfixable.  Although speaking of TWCenter, RE: modchat You may want to get this mod with the Sengoku Jidai pack, to unlock all the units for every faction. On the one hand it kinda undermines the variation, on the other hand it means you actually get to see all the units regularly. Bulletproof samurai and long-yari ashigaru both show up frequently and have a pretty serious effect on how battles play out. I get it every now and then if I want to shake up the game with new units that aren't badly thought out/ broken; and it keeps the building requirements for them, unlike in Radious' mod, so you don't see them too much.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:41
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Is Empire worth getting? Its dirt cheap now and I always wanted to try it, but total war games always had atrocious AI and apparently this one was also a buggy mess. Did its issues ever get resolved? Should I just wait for Rome 2 to become good? I need help, goons!
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Oct 7, 2013 20:42
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Pycckuu posted:Is Empire worth getting? Its dirt cheap now and I always wanted to try it, but total war games always had atrocious AI and apparently this one was also a buggy mess. Did its issues ever get resolved? Should I just wait for Rome 2 to become good? I need help, goons! Pick Empire and the DLC all up for cheap now. It was a horrible release but most issues have been patched up, aside from the obvious faults (AI) it still is pretty good fun.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:44
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Sweet, thanks! Are there any essential mods I should look into? I'm not a huge realism sperg but flaming pigs and screeching women are not really my cup of tea in terms of units.
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Oct 8, 2013 00:41
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Pycckuu posted:Sweet, thanks! Are there any essential mods I should look into? I'm not a huge realism sperg but flaming pigs and screeching women are not really my cup of tea in terms of units. Only a handful of mods seem to work for ETW these days, If you put up with the retarded loading screens DarthMod is your best bet. It really is a mini mod compilation. There isn't any over the top units like that in ETW however.
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Oct 8, 2013 00:48
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Whaat I never thought I would see Darthmod actually recommended in this thread. Imperial Splendour is a good mod for ETW, and honestly, getting a mod that removes forts entirely will probably make your game more fun. They fixed a lot of the stuff in ETW, but the forts assaults are still atrocious.
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Oct 8, 2013 00:58
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Thing is, only a handful of ETW mods remain maintained including the aforementioned mod.
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Oct 8, 2013 01:07
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Why are they so bad in vanilla? Does the AI just hide in forts all the time and you end up fighting nothing but fort battles? I'll look into Imperial Splendor, but I usually play the first campaign in vanilla TW anyway. Thanks dudes.
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Oct 8, 2013 01:09
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Pycckuu posted:Why are they so bad in vanilla? Does the AI just hide in forts all the time and you end up fighting nothing but fort battles? I'll look into Imperial Splendor, but I usually play the first campaign in vanilla TW anyway. Thanks dudes. No, the pathfinding is just completely broken. Fort battles are actually pretty rare, iirc Koramei posted:Try to find the mods on the steam workshop? All the good ones are there I think. There is one mod in particular that I'm looking for, it changes the localisation files so that FotS units stop speaking like Mickey Rooney. It breaks all of my sound when I install it from TWC, but it's not on the workshop.
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Oct 8, 2013 01:46
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SquadronROE posted:I can't remember exactly, but it was mostly economic things. I was going for having a massive alliance that all pushed forward but my allies never pushed forward because they were actively defending their territories. Then I got so spread out that I needed a large navy just to keep my income up, and when I finally did create a nice forward military base I got stalled out because the enemy kept pressure on my provinces with full stack armies near my borders, forcing me to keep a fair number of units in my cities to dissuade an attack. Sounds good. Get kneel fire as soon as you can and you don't have to worry about losing a battle ever again. You can even make your men even more effective against enemies in sieges by pulling them back from the wall once its threatened and having them face it with kneel fire on. Nothing survives.
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Oct 8, 2013 02:53
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SquadronROE posted:I can't remember exactly, but it was mostly economic things. I was going for having a massive alliance that all pushed forward but my allies never pushed forward because they were actively defending their territories. Then I got so spread out that I needed a large navy just to keep my income up, and when I finally did create a nice forward military base I got stalled out because the enemy kept pressure on my provinces with full stack armies near my borders, forcing me to keep a fair number of units in my cities to dissuade an attack. Also, GOLD MINES. Take Sado and that other island north of Kyushu, pimp out their gold mines, put nothing but economic buildings and enough units to keep them from rebelling every turn due to modernisation and watch the money roll in. It's not as necessary when you're playing nice with either faction, but if you decide to break away and make your own faction, the gold mines will be most of your income. And this is just me, but put a foreign quarter into the richest city you have, and accept the assistance of the West when they offer it to you. Who you get is randomly chosen between two countries, depending on which faction you are currently supporting, with the French offering their services to the Shogunate, the British offering their's to the Imperials and the Americans don't give a gently caress and sell to both. The Warrior is hilarious to use in any naval battle, and the special infantry you get is fun but expensive. I think the Royal Marines have better melee, the Foreign Legion has better ranged stats and the US Marines are middle of the road, but I'm reinstalling Shogun 2 right now so I can't check to be sure. vv Nothing is better than watching the  Warrior sending enemy sailors flying to the stratosphere with one volley 
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Oct 8, 2013 05:40
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The Brits only give you one ironclad while France and America give you two. The Warrior is an ungodly beast of floating murder, sure, but it's overkill against anything but other foreign ironclads, so you're usually better off with two lesser ironclads. Plus the British bonus is kinda pants, compared to better reloading on artillery or rifles. But if you're at the point where you're deciding what ungodly beast of floating murder to choose from, you're probably going to win the game anyway, so you might as well choose whichever floats your ironclad. Rule Britannia!
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Oct 8, 2013 05:46
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I'm really bad at Total War games, but I'm pretty sure cannons are awesome in FotS.  Either that, or the AI is really bad.
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Oct 8, 2013 12:30
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The other day I got to reenact The Last Samurai with about three thousand kachi streaming over a tiny bridge with a dozen gatling guns and six hundred British Marines waiting for them. It was glorious. Was that a city assault, Nightblade? My only real gripe with the FotS AI is that when it's defending a fort it doesn't recognize when it's hideously outmatched at range, and will happily sit there while you burn through all of the ammunition of your cannons, bow kachi, sharpshooters and boats. Sometimes they do it on the defensive in field battles, too.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:22
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Tehan posted:Was that a city assault, Nightblade? My only real gripe with the FotS AI is that when it's defending a fort it doesn't recognize when it's hideously outmatched at range, and will happily sit there while you burn through all of the ammunition of your cannons, bow kachi, sharpshooters and boats. Sometimes they do it on the defensive in field battles, too. No, I think it was some kind of river map.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:33
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Yep, cannon supremacy dominates river maps. Park your riflemen covering the ford or bridge then bombard them until they have no choice but to march into the bullets. It's what they get for bringing swords to a gunfight.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:48
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I started a new game last night and only got a few turns into it (maybe 6 or 7). I again started with the Satori (can't beat the starting location and 2 provinces + a vassal from the get-go). ...and immediately made some horrible missteps. Instead of going for my shogunate neighbor with both my meager navy and initial army I only sent my initial army while my navy started moving for my local Imperial neighbor, prepping for the next battle. So the Shogunate dude simply moved his much larger army out (which had 4 units of line infantry to my 1) and annihilated my attacking force. Bye bye general. Then I built up a larger force of levy infantry, led them with my heir (while sending my fleet back around to bombard the enemy's city). I won the battle with some cleverness in forests but my heir still died from an unlucky gunshot. I'm thinking of restarting again. I lost my foreign veteran, one army, and two generals (including an heir) before the game even really begins.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:56
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I keep trying to go with Tsu because I adore their incredibly dapper colour scheme (white with purple trim) but there's just no way to get their backs against an ocean for when I inevitably get cocky and decide to go independent at Realm Divide and I inevitably get absolutely ruined when I get attacked on eight to ten fronts at once. Their incredible sense of style has ruined me for other clans  
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Oct 8, 2013 14:15
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I'm really tempted to reinstall Shogun 2 and try my first Shogunate Sendai campaign now. But eastern Japan has so many mountains and choke points ugh.
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Oct 8, 2013 15:31
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I really like Fall of the Samurai - it's just plain cathartic to watch disciplined lines of riflemen mow down hapless armies of lesser troops and generally leverage technology into a battlewinning force. That said, I really do dislike how goddamn enormous the map is, it takes ages to go anywhere I mean ugggggggh.
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Oct 8, 2013 15:37
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