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1. A 2. G 3. I Man, I wanted to be bros with Azzazel.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:27
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1. Azzazel said he did not expect the creature to return to the sea for maybe a day. Do you wait a few days if needed to retrieve your club? A. Yes. Up to a day. I'd like to wait 3, but I suspect we'll run through all the cactus piss in the immediate area in a day. 2. Where are you going, now? E. We've had enough, time to head for home. 3. Lastly, while you are still far away from Zepath, where is the first place you go when you get back? J. To find my mom and let her know I am alright. We're supposed to go to the temple first, but gently caress you Zepath you're not my real dad.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:30
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1. C. We got lucky. Let's not greedy. Leave well enough (and giant sea monsters) alone and let's go home. 2. E+H. See above. That said, though, the moment we come across a decent and appropriate stone, create a makeshift altar and sacrifice half the pearls in thanks for our escape, and be sure to apologize for the lateness of the offering. 3. J. I figure El is eternal, and wishes to see humans aid those in need and provide help to the helpless and all that jazz. What are a few minutes more or less to such as he, when he knows drat well what we've been up to and what we've been through in his name? But the span of our mother's life is brief as a mayfly in comparison to El, and her suffering and need is greater than El's - or indeed our own need to be recognized as a man. El will understand, and may even approve. Also, Azzazel created goats and cacti and left heaven because his fellow Melachim refused to allow him to bring goats into heaven? I like this guy more and more. Such shocking paranoia we have about him! Not to mention we've been getting by literally on his creations! Assuming of course as ever that he's telling the truth.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:32
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1. C - Its not worth delaying for the spikes, cool as they are. 2. E 3. I E: Send Snarls to find mom while we make our offering. She knows we've been on our test, she'll probably see him and come to the temple herself.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:32
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Tomn posted:1. C. We got lucky. Let's not greedy. Leave well enough (and giant sea monsters) alone and let's go home. These work for me.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:36
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1: B - Not for the club, just to give Snarls time to heal. 2: E 3: I - Do the proper thing. Let's get these pearls home already, not give them up halfway.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:44
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1. A - Look over the hill and see what the monster is up to. Yell at the monster "Well you win, we're leaving now! GOODBYE-BYE-bye-bye.." Slowly fading and slinking down to the ground so it thinks we're gone. Then we just wait a little while and peek over occasionally to see whats up. Mostly this is just to amuse us, really I just want to wait a little while for Snarls leg to get better. 2. E 3. I - I'm sure your mom will show up for your arrival and will be so proud of your gift to El.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:57
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A E I. But send Snarls to find our mother and reassure her.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:58
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1. B I don't like the idea of sitting around the wilderness, but I like the idea of walking back home without a weapon even less. Plus it will give Snarls a little time to heal. However, if we start to have trouble surviving and it looks like things will take a dangerous physical toll on Snarls or us, just go. 2.E We can offer the first fish we get off the river or something later. 3.J El can wait while we show off all our cool doo-dads to Jalitha and make her happy. If El doesn't understand coming second to that he's a total dick. Diogines posted:"Goats, among other things, but I am definitely proudest of them! Their little hoofie woofies and their ears and the way they tilt their head as they look up at you and and.. what? Oh right. You've been admiring my handy work for weeks! Had I known, I might have changed the taste of cactus juice though..." I thought Az knew everything that happened in his domain? How did he not know we were drinking cactus piss until now? :?:
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Oct 23, 2013 16:05
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1. Azzazel said he did not expect the creature to return to the sea for maybe a day. Do you wait a few days if needed to retrieve your club? C. No. 2. Where are you going, now? E. North for anywhere from 4 days to a week, drinking cactus piss and eating road kill till we get to the river, then two weeks up it to get home. 3. Lastly, while you are still far away from Zepath, where is the first place you go when you get back? I. To El's temple to make my offering
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Oct 23, 2013 16:09
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1. C 2. E 3. I
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Oct 23, 2013 16:12
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Nettle Soup posted:Let's get these pearls home already, not give them up halfway. Now, see, here's the way I see it. Whatever we do, we're giving these pearls to El (unless we keep them for ourselves, but let's discuss that later). We can sacrifice them now, we can sacrifice them later, either way, don't make much physical difference to El because unless we drop some during our trip he's getting them all. So what difference does it make if we sacrifice half now in thanks as opposed to sacrificing the lot later? Two major differences: A) We gain more glory, honor, and respect for ourselves in Zepath. B) We don't demonstrate an appropriate sense of gratitude for our salvation. Because as far as El is concerned, more pearls probably doesn't mean a HUGE difference when it comes to the manhood ritual - yeah, you expended more effort, good job and all that, how nice of you, but the important point is that you're now an adult who has faced hardship for El, and that's frankly already pretty well fulfilled with our jackal skull. The REAL point of the pearls is to impress other mortals, and to win personal glory as people go "Holy crap, he bought back PEARLS!" Seeking out personal glory and fame on a quest to demonstrate our respect for El doesn't quite seem entirely on, even if he doesn't outright disapprove. Conversely, however, we just escaped from something most Zepathans wouldn't even want to think about. That's a big drat deal! If we think, at all, that El was in any way responsible for that then the proper thing to do is to demonstrate gratitude. And the best way to demonstrate that gratitude? Not just sacrificing valuable pearls that we gathered at cost to ourselves, but sacrificing the personal glory and fame we would have won for bringing them back to Zepath. If THAT is not pleasing to El, what is? On the other hand, if we managed to escape from some enormous hellbeast without even a word of thanks to the being whom we babbled prayers to as we ran, what kind of respect for El does that demonstrate? Would not the fact that we are fair-weather devotees who promise the world when in trouble but think of ourselves when safe invalidate the worth of our manhood offerings? Keep half of the pearls to use on the manhood offering, by all means since when you get down to it that was the whole drat point of this trip, but I think it'll demonstrate a proper sense of gratitude and piety to give up the other half unto El as thanks. He'll know what it costs us, and it costs us considerably more than the monetary wealth of the pearls. As for keeping the pearls ourselves, I really hope I don't need to point out that that is even more selfish than offering them for our own glory and that all of the above arguments would be even stronger if we were holding those pearls back entirely and solely for our own benefit when it was El that allowed us to come out with the pearls alive to begin with. I don't know that we want to piss off El on that front. FoxTerrier posted:I thought Az knew everything that happened in his domain? How did he not know we were drinking cactus piss until now? :?: I'm pretty sure what he meant was that he made the cacti and made them taste like piss way back when, and if he'd known that good friends like ourselves would be slurping them up for nourishment he'd have made them taste better.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:20
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They'll mean more once we've taken them all the way home though. The same as they mean more out of the sea then they would if we'd gone and bought them from the shop. We can offer something else, meat or fish on the way home. Also, about seeing our mother: El likes stuff gained through hardship, so if we sacrifice before going to see our mother, won't it mean more? In giving up the chance for personal/social comfort so that we can give our offering first, we make it mean even more, we show that El comes first in our life. Much like giving up the meat before eating. I think glory does matter, if not to us, than to Tudiya and Danal and our mother, so they can see what we did was worth it and be proud and tell all their friends, "look what he did", and maybe other lads will think "Well if the Cannibal-Kid could do it, so can I" and they'll leave their brothers at home when it's their turn. Plus the more we bring back, the more it'll show up that dude who's nose we broke. 
Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 16:28
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I would argue two things: 1) By waiting to give up all the pearls until we get to the city, we're basically pulling a Tudiya and using our homecoming as a chance to show off how merciful/good El was on our journey to everybody. 'Look how great El is, he helped me get all these pearls! Worship him, woo woo!' Seems sound to me. 2) Nettle Soup posted:Also, about seeing our mother: El likes stuff gained through hardship, so if we sacrifice before going to see our mother, won't it mean more? In giving up the chance for personal/social comfort so that we can give our offering first, we make it mean even more. Much like giving up the meat before eating. Except our votes have consistently been the other way around: We've shown repeatedly we care more about the trial and gaining glory than Jalitha. Running past her to offer the pearls wouldn't exactly be a big sacrifice for us. Really though we should go see her first because she's a nice lady who deserves some hugs, not because of what El will or will not think of that.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:36
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FoxTerrier posted:Except our votes have consistently been the other way around: We've shown repeatedly we care more about the trial and gaining glory than Jalitha. Running past her to offer the pearls wouldn't exactly be a big sacrifice for us. Yep, agreein' with this.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:37
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1B. Yes. Up to 3 days. 2G. I wait till the monster is gone, then to my altar, to make an offering to El to thank him and to ask he watch over us on our way home. 3J. To find my mom and let her know I am alright. Question for Dio. I know it's a bit early to discuss what we're going to do with the pearls, but how many pearls would a hunting bow and a quiver of arrows set us back?
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Oct 23, 2013 16:52
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Nettle Soup posted:They'll mean more once we've taken them all the way home though. The same as they mean more out of the sea then they would if we'd gone and bought them from the shop. We can offer something else, meat or fish on the way home. Re: Jalitha - I am 90% certain that most of those voting to see Jalitha first aren't doing so because THEY want to be comforted - they want to comfort JALITHA who's most likely sick with worry. Very major difference from your scenario, in that we are actively giving up the immediate glory and honor due to the manhood offering to offer comfort to someone who needs it. Does not El wish men to aid others? As for the thank-offering, here's the thing - sacrificing random things we caught along the way is small beans. Hell, we'd need to do it anyways as part of the usual "Thanks for letting us hunt successfully" ritual to begin with. They are very, very ordinary offerings won at little cost and effort. Is this really in any way equal to the extraordinary danger from which we successfully escaped? It'd be like telling a waiter "Hey, since you just managed to save my life from those ninja assassins, here's a 20% tip instead of my usual 15%. You earned it!" An extraordinary effort deserves extraordinary gratitude, does it not? And since we were planning to sacrifice the pearls as an offering once we got back to Zepath anyways, claiming that they're doing double-duty as a thank-offering smacks of falsehood - it's no sacrifice to give up what you've already planned to lose, after all. Whereas if we sacrifice them here and now, our lives in the mortal world WILL, as you point out, be objectively worse than they would have been if sacrificed in Zepath. We would gain less respect, less honor, less glory for sacrificing these pearls out in the wild where nobody sees but us and El. Is this not a far greater, and more pleasing sacrifice to El than simply doing what we intended to do to begin with? Do we not give up far more than we would ever have gained by giving up the pearls in Zepath? What, ultimately, matters more - the way El views us or the way Zepath views us? Of course, if you honestly don't think El helped us during the escape, or if you don't really care about demonstrating piety and gratitude in El's eyes and much prefer mortal wealth and fame, feel free to head on home bragging about how awesome we are while giving El the leavings of our meals. It's an entirely valid viewpoint, and after all some still think that El might be a lie. But if you DO think that piety and gratitude are more important and that El somehow helped us escape, I don't see how you can argue that sticking to the plan is more pious and more grateful than giving up half (or even all!) of the pearls here and now.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:00
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Tomn posted:But if you DO think that piety and gratitude are more important and that El somehow helped us escape, I don't see how you can argue that sticking to the plan is more pious and more grateful than giving up half (or even all!) of the pearls here and now. A scenario: Tudiya is worried faith in El is falling. But Lo! The TL/DR: Showing up with the most impressive offerings we can seems pretty straightforwardly beneficial to El and pious to me; so long as we credit El loudly. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this was part of Tudiya's motivation all along.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:10
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B, E, I Spend the three days moving to the edge of the scrub, letting Snarls heal and preparing. The club would be nice for the arrowheads, but this is more about pace while Snarls heals, since we are carrying him again. Don't buy the hype that we are all about glory and such. Jalitha wants us to succeed, even if she worries. She prays for our safe return and wants us to act honorably. It is not some Mom or Manhood Zero sum game. That is false. Just finish the Rite as best we can, if we can. That is what will be best for both Jalitha and Danal. The trial is not over until we make out offering in the Temple. Send Snarls to Tudiya's house (if we make it back) so that Jalitha, Danal and others can be part of our offering. That is how to comfort Jalitha, possibly the most religiously devout person we know. To Snarl's: We are going home boy. You have been brave and patient and we would be dead without you. Just a little bit longer. We will take it slow to start and I will carry you until your foot is better. Ok? Can you tell where the nearest good water is? Edit: let's not lose sight of where we are. We have about another month of wilds before we even get to make some of these choices. Sogol fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 17:12
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dyzzy posted:1. C This. Walk in the gates, no fanfare, and finish the job. Mom can come second. Also, drat it, you guys never want to do anything fun anymore, we should have accepted his offer if just to shake things up a bit. You try to summon the demon Asherah one time, mostly by accident....
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Oct 23, 2013 17:17
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A, E, I. If the monster recedes, let's venture down to the shoreline to see if any of those pearls we pulled in are left. Keep a sharp lookout though, any signs of anything funny and we take off. No going back in the water though, we're done pearl fishing, as I'm not convinced the creature won't be hanging around the area for a while longer. Edit: Should have taken the offer people. Who cares if people would know we didn't walk back, we didn't need to hide it in the first place. Can't mention Azzazel, but there was never any criteria that we had to walk back, we'd just say we won passage back by charming/out-witting a magical creature.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:17
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Voting as follows:Diogines posted:1. Azzazel said he did not expect the creature to return to the sea for maybe a day. Do you wait a few days if needed to retrieve your club? Stash Snarls in a safe spot, preferably behind a large rock with a slight overhang. Return as close to the forest as we possibly can without being spotted by something made of eyes. Whether by Vayahi Or or smashing loving rocks together, we set fire to the forest and give that Thing something to scream about. "I am Enkidel of Zepath, formerly Og of Athar, Son of Jalitha and friend to Snarls Barkley. Remember my name! Remember my face! But, most of all, remember that nobody hurts my friends, you son of a bitch!" quote:2. Where are you going, now? and quote:3. Lastly, while you are still far away from Zepath, where is the first place you go when you get back? We may already have passed the test and become a man by our actions, but I don't think it's "official" until we make our offering. Take a moment to be a child one last time before making our passage to adulthood final.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:19
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FoxTerrier posted:A scenario: Now that, I would argue, is an interesting and tricky theological question that might in real life cause religious schisms. Is El a utilitarian god who doesn't care overmuch how people behave as long as it increases worship in El, or is he more of a moralist who wants people to act in the correct way even if this might be less directly beneficial to him? Does he care more that we, personally, are giving up respect and honor as thanks to him, or does he care more about getting lots of worshipers even if their reasons for faith might be based more around "El will help me!" than "El is mighty and worth worshiping!"? I would personally lean towards the moralist view - the idea that El would prefer to see proper relations enforced and to see things done right than to see people mouth his name while they dream of wealth and fame, but I'll admit that's probably more because I find the former interesting than because there's much evidence of it. So let's get some more information. Diog, do we know anything that might shed some light on this? Either way, though, I still think that cultivating a personal relationship with El is more important (and more interesting, at least) than advancing the cause of the established church. But we'll see!
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Oct 23, 2013 17:20
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I do not want to walk back to camp, which is right next to the beach, and run the risk of another head-long flight through the forest if the monster catches wind and decides to turn around.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:24
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I don't think it matters a lot whether we bring back 4 or 40 pearls to Zepath, at least not in terms of how much glory it's going to bring us. The pearls might as well be moon gold to the Zepathians; they fear the ocean so much that any number we bring back will likely impress them. What does matter is their monetary value. I know a lot of you don't want to pledge a lifetime of service to El the way Tudiya did, but I've been thinking about a different pledge. A good hunter never goes hungry, and can provide the hungry, sick and poor with enough food to survive. I think a vow to do just that will impress El and Tudiya more than any number of pearls would. Obviously, we can't sacrifice the pearls we use to buy a bow and arrows.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:25
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Task Manager posted:This. Walk in the gates, no fanfare, and finish the job. Mom can come second. Where were you when it was club throwing time? That would have been fun. Edit: The promise not to tell anyone about Azz was potentially as binding and damaging as an open favor. The combination was possibly lethal, even given Azz's attempt at good intentions.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:29
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Zybourne Clock posted:I don't think it matters a lot whether we bring back 4 or 40 pearls to Zepath, at least not in terms of how much glory it's going to bring us. The pearls might as well be moon gold to the Zepathians; they fear the ocean so much that any number we bring back will likely impress them. Well, no. At least not with Tudiya - Diog stated a specific amount of pearls to reach in order to really impress Tudiya, and we didn't reach that amount before we were, ah, interrupted. And while pearls are rare, they're apparently not rare enough that one could buy the whole city - if nothing else, don't forget that when we first came back Tudiya scattered hundreds of the things throughout the city without causing enormous issues with inflation. Zepthans may be a bit ignorant at times, and getting ANY amount of pearls out of the sea is indeed pretty neat, but they're not complete rubes and they WILL assign different levels of respect to different amounts of pearls. Also, if you'd prefer to buy a bow and arrow and do a pledge to feed the hungry, that's fine and all, but it still leaves the question of a thank-offering (which I say again can't possibly be adequately given by offering random things we hunt unless we fast the whole drat way). The fact is, if it weren't for El (or the Melachim, or Azzazel, or Asherah, or Smittas, or our own legs, pick your belief), we wouldn't even be alive, let alone have a handful of pearls. Isn't giving up some of the pearls he helped save the LEAST we could do?
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Oct 23, 2013 17:41
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quote:Question for Dio. I know it's a bit early to discuss what we're going to do with the pearls, but how many pearls would a hunting bow and a quiver of arrows set us back? You own a bow. Chait gave you one and demanded you sleep with it at night. quote:To Snarl's: When you explain what you meant: River I have to run. I will get to the other questions soon.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:46
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1. B 2. E 3. J We've been neglecting our mom, there's no rush to make the sacrifice anyway.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:55
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Tomn posted:Also, if you'd prefer to buy a bow and arrow and do a pledge to feed the hungry, that's fine and all, but it still leaves the question of a thank-offering (which I say again can't possibly be adequately given by offering random things we hunt unless we fast the whole drat way). The fact is, if it weren't for El (or the Melachim, or Azzazel, or Asherah, or Smittas, or our own legs, pick your belief), we wouldn't even be alive, let alone have a handful of pearls. Isn't giving up some of the pearls he helped save the LEAST we could do? Yes, I want to make multiple offerings. My plan was to offer a number of pearls back at the camp's altar, and keep the rest to buy a bow later so we can pledge to feed the needy. But apparently we already own a bow, so we can offer a few pearls here and offer the rest plus take our vow later when we return to Zepath. I still don't think the exact number of pearls matters much when it comes to impressing the Zepathians.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:04
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Zybourne Clock posted:Yes, I want to make multiple offerings. My plan was to offer a number of pearls back at the camp's altar, and keep the rest to buy a bow later so we can pledge to feed the needy. But apparently we already own a bow, so we can offer a few pearls here and offer the rest plus take our vow later when we return to Zepath. I still don't think the exact number of pearls matters much when it comes to impressing the Zepathians. Whoops, sorry about that - for some reason I thought you were Nettle Soup, who didn't want to use the pearls as a thank-offering.  That said, given that it'd apparently take eight or nine pearls to buy a bow, I'd argue that yeah, the amount of pearls DOES matter to some extent at least since clearly they're not so immensely rare and valuable that the mere sight of them causes maiden to blush and faint. The fact that we got any pearls at all is certainly going going to be neat, but there'd have been a definite difference between coming back with the full amount of intended pearls and only five.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:21
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Sacrificing the pearls at the temple probably won't involve destroying them. Sure, you can burn pearls, but they probably won't. The temple will keep the pearls, and either use them in decoration or perhaps someday trade them for something the temple needs. Destroying them out here is just wasteful.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:30
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1. B 2. G 3. M Go to the temple with the offering first, then find Ishamal for a chat about our friends azzazel, and ask him if there is a way to let snarls live as long as us
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Oct 23, 2013 18:45
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Daned posted:1. B If there isn't a way to make snarls immortal we can at least make a small part of him live on, find snarls a lady dog and get ourselves some snarls puppies. If there's one with spots we should call it Spotty Pippen, to keep up the basketball player name tradition. Also if we ever get ourselves a hawk or a parrot or something we should definitely call it Larry Bird.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:55
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Sogol posted:Where were you when it was club throwing time? That would have been fun. Hah! Touche. I did wimp out on throwing the club. I'll make up for it with the next fun/potentially life threating decision, promise. Regarding the secret binding - he was going to let us tell Ishamal, and I don't really know of anyone else we would really want to tell besides him anyways. Oh well. We can tell anyone we want now anyways since the wind blew other ways with that vote.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:57
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jazzyhattrick posted:If there isn't a way to make snarls immortal we can at least make a small part of him live on, find snarls a lady dog and get ourselves some snarls puppies. If there's one with spots we should call it Spotty Pippen, to keep up the basketball player name tradition. Also if we ever get ourselves a hawk or a parrot or something we should definitely call it Larry Bird. We should totally get a hawk. Let's scout out the edge of the forest for downed nests!
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Oct 23, 2013 18:59
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BGI
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Oct 23, 2013 19:00
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BEJ
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Oct 23, 2013 19:02
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BGI
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Oct 23, 2013 19:09
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 19:04 |
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Angela Christine posted:Sacrificing the pearls at the temple probably won't involve destroying them. Sure, you can burn pearls, but they probably won't. The temple will keep the pearls, and either use them in decoration or perhaps someday trade them for something the temple needs. Destroying them out here is just wasteful. By that argument, sacrificing the choicest cuts of meat or indeed any sacrifice involving destruction is a waste. I mean that's good food going up in flames to nobody, guys, it's not like El gets hungry! But people do! What a waste! The point of sacrifice is that it's a SACRIFICE, not "Well keep it around to look pretty and maybe use it later." It's something you give up when strictly speaking you don't need to.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:13
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