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Castle Radium posted:Trust me, it isn't thinking that people hate. It's getting to the end of the game and discovering they're screwed because they didn't pick up that one rock three screens from the start that looks like all the other rocks but it turns out is crucial and now there's no way back and they have to start over. That kind of thing. I think the number of people who loved the intro couple hours of Bioshock Infinite but then complained the rest of the game was a shooter* proves there's actually a huge audience for a new style of adventure games, but publishers are afraid of trying new things that might fail, so we get more FPS. Definitely adventure-game logic is a problem, as is not grabbing something you need later down the line, but good game design alleviates that. (Although that's just saying "make it not suck!") I'd like to see more puzzle games like Myst or Monkey Island or whatever have puzzle difficulty settings. It does take a ton more work so I see why they don't, but in something like Silent Hill you could independently control the combat difficulty and the puzzle difficulty, and that was great. Some people set it to easy puzzles and got things that only took a couple seconds thought to answer an obvious question, and then you move on. At medium they stopped you for a bit and took some doing, but were easy enough challenges. At hard however, you were going to spend awhile thinking on each puzzle, more like Myst. I just don't see one-size-fits-all working well for puzzles; you have some intellectuals and older people who love a real challenge and get bored by something too simple, but at the same time if its too hard, then kids are going to be turned off and never play very far into the game. Its definitely easier just to crap out another shooter. 
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Oct 23, 2013 17:02
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Curse of Monkey Island actually *did* have a difficulty setting. "Hard mode" included a few puzzles that were definitely "adventure game logic", although I think it was just five or so of them. I think that more than having a difficulty setting (kinda hard because you might have to redesign entire sections rather than just bump the health and damage of enemies), adventure games should work like Lucas Arts games did and have a combination of hints integrated into the environment and not putting you in a position where it was loving impossible to finish the game.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:31
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Rexides posted:Curse of Monkey Island actually *did* have a difficulty setting. poo poo, you're right! That was a bad example.  Yeah, one thing I really loved about King's Quest... VI? VII? Whatever... was that there were multiple paths through the game. So if one particularly "adventure game logic" puzzle had you stumped, you could just find a different way. Sometimes the exact same puzzle would have multiple solutions, or other times there were two parallel puzzles, and solving either allowed you to progress. That's good design.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:40
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Zaphod42 posted:I think the number of people who loved the intro couple hours of Bioshock Infinite but then complained the rest of the game was a shooter* proves there's actually a huge audience for a new style of adventure games Wait, what part of Bioshock Infinite wasn't a shooter? Like the first 15 minutes or so before the cops start coming for you? And who on earth was playing the game not expecting one?  Zaphod42 posted:poo poo, you're right! That was a bad example. I think Kings Quest 1 had multiple solutions to a few of the puzzles too, just that both solutions were often terrible and could still lead to fail states.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:43
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raditts posted:Wait, what part of Bioshock Infinite wasn't a shooter? Like the first 15 minutes or so before the cops start coming for you? Well, a common complaint was that reusing FPS "murder everything" mechanics in a game that so obviously aimed for artistic merit dragged it down, inspiring talk that video games are in need of some sort of gameplay revolution in order to allow more coherent experience...
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Oct 23, 2013 18:54
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raditts posted:Wait, what part of Bioshock Infinite wasn't a shooter? Like the first 15 minutes or so before the cops start coming for you? Like the first hour, it was admittedly pretty cool. Like Half-Life starting with you just going about your day job at first. There were some reviews that were like "oh my god my girlfriend totally loved bioshock infinite at first but then the shooting started and she hated all the violence, its too bad the game couldn't keep going like that she would have loved it." and its like  comeon dude.No, I knew it was a shooter, I'm not complaining. I loved Bioshock Infinite. I'm just saying, obviously if you did make a non-shooter first person puzzle game like that, some people would love it. There's definitely a market for a sort of Myst game where you're exploring a location and interacting with people and some crazy setting. Myst never really had people, which made it feel like you were trespassing and alone and it was kinda spooky, which was cool, but it'd be nice to have a first person puzzle game where you can talk to other people like an RPG, and then they send you off to do puzzles instead of going off to shoot people. Hmm. The Bioshock Infinite thread here had some comments to the same effect too, wishing the game was more like the beginning. And to be honest, lots of both Bioshock 1 and 2 and Infinite was clearing all the enemies in an area so that you could freely explore and observe and pick apart every detail in a level, so you could just make that the focus of the game instead of having the shooting. Although I kinda screwed up because a better example would have just been Portal and Portal 2. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 19:06
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Kings Quest I on Sega Master System. Even more dickish than the original. Also Kings Quest Death Speedruns.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:09
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How did anyone in that family survive to adulthood when it's fatal to so much as step in a puddle?
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Oct 23, 2013 20:34
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah, one thing I really loved about King's Quest... VI? VII? Whatever... was that there were multiple paths through the game. So if one particularly "adventure game logic" puzzle had you stumped, you could just find a different way. Sometimes the exact same puzzle would have multiple solutions, or other times there were two parallel puzzles, and solving either allowed you to progress. That's good design.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:27
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Alkanos posted:They actually had alternate solutions in KQ5 too! Only, the one "alternate solution" caused you to not have a necessary item at a later point and made many people have to restart the game... I never beat KQ5 but I'm guessing it's "dat eez not a gold coin but I guess eet veel be fine"?
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Oct 23, 2013 23:42
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SomethingAwful's very own Gaspy Conana is kickstarting his open world adventure game, Dropsy, based on the eponymous forum CYOA. I like his pixel art and I liked the CYOA which is why I backed.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:44
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah, one thing I really loved about King's Quest... VI? VII? Whatever... was that there were multiple paths through the game. So if one particularly "adventure game logic" puzzle had you stumped, you could just find a different way. Sometimes the exact same puzzle would have multiple solutions, or other times there were two parallel puzzles, and solving either allowed you to progress. That's good design. Primordia does this pretty well. Unfortunately, the alternate solutions can change the ending, but you can still get most of the possible endings regardless of your choices. Zaphod42 posted:it'd be nice to have a first person puzzle game where you can talk to other people like an RPG, and then they send you off to do puzzles instead of going off to shoot people. I actually thought this when I first played Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Particularly the level where you have to sneak into the exclusive party, because it's almost there. You can get in by various different methods, you can wander around and talk to people, and you can even get the thing you came for without killing anyone. The only problem is that if you gently caress up at all then everyone goes nuts and you have to kill them. But it certainly shows that an adventure game in that style could be both possible and fun. Shine posted:I never beat KQ5 but I'm guessing it's "dat eez not a gold coin but I guess eet veel be fine"? Yep.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:20
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raditts posted:How did anyone in that family survive to adulthood when it's fatal to so much as step in a puddle? Some thoughts on Phantasmagoria. It's a bad game but I find it really fascinating. It shares the record for most CDs (7) with an X-Files game. Roberta seemingly intended for Adrienne to be a strong female character but got lost somewhere along the way because she comes across as a none too bright doormat. Don was intended to be a sexy wonderful romance novel guy before his possession. What you do see of that is taken up by some silly softcore action and cringe worthy flirting before he becomes a jerk for the rest of the game. David Homb has apparently attended some seminars. Attempts to make the game 'mature' such as a the softcore and the swearing make it seem really juvenile, and the rape scene is just in bad taste. At least the technology they built to make this game found a better use when they used it to make Gabriel Knight II.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:41
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So with the Obduction kickstarter going on the Kickstarter thread got kind of shanghaied into a Myst discussion thread for a bit, so I thought I'd bring it up over here instead. I feel like my opinion tends to run against the grain when it comes to the series.. I think that Realmyst is 100% better than the original in pretty much every conceivable way. I also think Myst IV: Revelation is the best in the series. It had a stellar soundtrack, puzzle design that was better integrated into the environment than the others which were pretty much "here's a puzzle, now solve it so you can open this door or some poo poo." It also was pretty much the apex of what prerendered graphics were capable of, and did a good job of finishing the Sirrus and Achenar story threads from the first game. I know that's a pretty uncommon opinion though, so I'm sure I'm about to get the guild of maintainers on my rear end shortly.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:10
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I'm thinking about picking up Riven and either RealMyst or Myst: Masterpiece Edition again. Based on what you've said and what I know about it, Realmyst sounds the most appealing. I like the idea of being able to freely look around all the environments I have vague memories of. Is there any reason to get the Masterpiece edition instead? I'd be doing this purely out of nostalgia, it's been a long time since I played either Myst or Riven and I want to see if my opinion has changed at all. Basically I thought Myst was OK; it looked fantastic at the time (the QuickTime animations BUILT INTO THE GAME blew my mind) the puzzles were decent and it created some really neat environments, but the worlds were really limited and felt too static. And Riven I didn't care for, I think I mentioned in the Kickstarter thread, but my Dad and I played through Myst and Riven together, and he actually went out and bought a Brady guide for Riven because neither of us could finish the game after weeks of banging our heads against it. I just don't remember enjoying the experience of Riven much, and it'd be interesting to see if I feel differently. Plus I've forgotten 90% of the puzzles in both so it'd be kind of like playing a new game.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:29
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RightClickSaveAs posted:I'm thinking about picking up Riven and either RealMyst or Myst: Masterpiece Edition again. Based on what you've said and what I know about it, Realmyst sounds the most appealing. I like the idea of being able to freely look around all the environments I have vague memories of. Is there any reason to get the Masterpiece edition instead? I'd be doing this purely out of nostalgia, it's been a long time since I played either Myst or Riven and I want to see if my opinion has changed at all. Well if it's nostalgia you're going for that's what Masterpiece will have, since it's identical to what you experienced before. I just can't go back to it after playing Realmyst. It's (literally) a night and day difference. If you're really on the fence and not in a big hurry, it's pretty routine with every major Steam sale for there to be a discount on the Cyan Complete Pack. It's normally $30 but I've seen it go for $10-15 in past Steam sales. Not only does it have both Masterpiece Edition, Real Myst, and Riven included, but it's also the only way to obtain Cyan's pre-Myst titles that were aimed at kids (Manhole, Cosmic Osmo, and Spelunx.)
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Oct 24, 2013 04:26
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RightClickSaveAs posted:And Riven I didn't care for, I think I mentioned in the Kickstarter thread, but my Dad and I played through Myst and Riven together, and he actually went out and bought a Brady guide for Riven because neither of us could finish the game after weeks of banging our heads against it. I just don't remember enjoying the experience of Riven much, and it'd be interesting to see if I feel differently. I played Myst with my father and brother and that was fun, but all I remember of Riven was changing discs so many times that I got sick of it and quit.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:47
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macnbc posted:I feel like my opinion tends to run against the grain when it comes to the series.. I think that Realmyst is 100% better than the original in pretty much every conceivable way. I also think Myst IV: Revelation is the best in the series. It had a stellar soundtrack, puzzle design that was better integrated into the environment than the others which were pretty much "here's a puzzle, now solve it so you can open this door or some poo poo." It also was pretty much the apex of what prerendered graphics were capable of, and did a good job of finishing the Sirrus and Achenar story threads from the first game.
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Oct 24, 2013 09:13
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I'm not quite sure this is the right thread, but when you think about it, what is? Space Rangers HD: A War Apart is out on Steam. It's a remastering of the already pretty awesome Space Rangers 2 (think Sid Meier's Pirates in Spaaaaaaaaaaaace!) with new art assets, more fun gameplay poo poo and, most importantly, a completely redone translation. The last bit is crucial since the best part of SR are all the text adventures that you are given as missions, which range from winning a space pizza competition to hosting a dinner for the
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Oct 24, 2013 12:39
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Megazver posted:I'm not quite sure this is the right thread, but when you think about it, what is? SR2 is one of my favorite games of all time, so this is cool to see. That said, the slightly off-kilter translation of the original SR2 was one of its best qualities. It was still clear what people were talking about (most of the time), but the way they phrased things was just "off" enough that it came across like a charming English dialect, rather than sloppy, indecipherable garbage. I think it added to the immersion, with a bunch of alien species all speaking weird Space English, but each species' personality still coming through. It also has some really neat "just roll with it" emergent gameplay. You might be contracted to hunt down a pirate who is randomly killed by another Ranger right after you sign the contract, winning you an instant bounty. Or that pirate may land somewhere and get captured, so you can't kill them, so you fail the mission and lose some reputation with your employer. Welp, sucks to be you, but unless you die you can always make things right with the planet/species you pissed off (bribes, jail time [which is a fun text COYA with many valid options], getting plastic surgery and a new identity, etc.). If I really needed lots of cash in a hurry, I'd accept a bunch of escort missions all at once and then ignore them, crossing my fingers that my target would make it through without my help (the game doesn't arbitrarily send a dozen pirates after a merchant just because it's the one merchant of hundreds that you care about). Of course, sometimes a few would get slaughtered and suddenly I have a bounty on my head. It's an absolutely brilliant game, and one that I dust off every few years and pour several weeks into. The text adventures themselves would make a fine niche game. I'll definitely check out this update. Shine fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 14:06
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Shine posted:SR2 is one of my favorite games of all time, so this is cool to see. That said, the slightly off-kilter translation of the original SR2 was one of its best qualities. It was still clear what people were talking about (most of the time), but the way they phrased things was just "off" enough that it came across like a charming English dialect, rather than sloppy, indecipherable garbage. I think it added to the immersion, with a bunch of alien species all speaking weird Space English, but each species' personality still coming through. Judging by the screens, I have a feeling that's still there but I hear in the previous English version some of the quests were pretty much gibberish and now everything is comprehensible and playable. quote:It's an absolutely brilliant game, and one that I dust off every few years and pour several weeks into. The text adventures themselves would make a fine niche game. I'll definitely check out this update. And you can play them all from the main menu, which is nice.
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Oct 24, 2013 15:24
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macnbc posted:So with the Obduction kickstarter going on the Kickstarter thread got kind of shanghaied into a Myst discussion thread for a bit, so I thought I'd bring it up over here instead. We already kinda had it out in the other thread, but to summarize my views, I agree Myst IV is actually probably the best one, the 360 panoramic views are just gorgeous and very freeing compared to the limited 90' turn views from Myst/Riven/Exile. I like Exile's tone, lots of ages and its pretty fun/exploratory, I love Amateria in particular. Myst/Riven are much darker, although I kinda like that too. In some ways Riven is my favorite, the tram rides blew my freaking mind when it first came out, how good the rock and water effects looked, and the puzzles were great. But Riven suffers from a lack of Ages, I love the concept of Ages and how they worked as a puzzle mechanic in Myst, but Riven only really has Riven. You go to Tay in a very brief single segment, which is a really cool age but you don't get to explore it whatsoever. You go to 233 to get Ghen, but its just a single small house. Catherine's location isn't even another age (for no reason), its just some really far away island in Riven. Why not? IV was also great because it had more to do with Myst's story than either Riven or Exile did, that was good. And it had more people, which the series always sorely lacked. I disagree that RealMyst is better than Myst Masterpiece though, the models are so garish and low-poly and being able to walk everywhere reveals some of the awkward parts of the island. The forced perspectives are frustrating at times, but everything still to this day looks very aesthetically pleasing in the prerendered shots, while the real-time renders of realmyst leave a lot to be desired. For their time they probably looked fine, but they didn't age as gracefully as the prerenders did. Exile and Revelations had the most obvious puzzles, which is indeed a good thing. Myst and Riven both have a good bit of "Um, is THIS the puzzle, or is this for something later?" Which overwhelms some people. RightClickSaveAs posted:I think I mentioned in the Kickstarter thread, but my Dad and I played through Myst and Riven together, and he actually went out and bought a Brady guide for Riven because neither of us could finish the game after weeks of banging our heads against it. I just don't remember enjoying the experience of Riven much, and it'd be interesting to see if I feel differently. Plus I've forgotten 90% of the puzzles in both so it'd be kind of like playing a new game. I'm in kinda the same boat, I played through Myst with my old man, and its the only game I ever really got him into. Considering it was the best selling game of all time until The Sims, and how much recognition it got for being one of the first major CD-ROM games, and how pretty it was, also being a puzzle game and not an intimidating shooter, I bet lots of non-gamers are huge fans of Myst. I do remember several points in Riven that had me stumped for days, frustrated. And I needed to look up some tips on the internet to solve the last puzzle in Riven, its a doozy. But I got through the rest without the guide, it just took a really long time. And Myst was much the same, I got stumped quite a few times. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 15:57
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Shine posted:SR2 is one of my favorite games of all time, so this is cool to see. If you play this, please report back, because if this is a modernised and more accessible version of the game you describe then I definitely want to play it.
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Oct 24, 2013 17:27
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Zaphod42 posted:I disagree that RealMyst is better than Myst Masterpiece though, the models are so garish and low-poly and being able to walk everywhere reveals some of the awkward parts of the island. The forced perspectives are frustrating at times, but everything still to this day looks very aesthetically pleasing in the prerendered shots, while the real-time renders of realmyst leave a lot to be desired. For their time they probably looked fine, but they didn't age as gracefully as the prerenders did. Ugh, I walked into empty air and got permanently stuck when trying to enter an elevator in Channelwood Age, and hadn't saved in over two hours. RealMyst feels clunky and cheap.
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Oct 24, 2013 22:00
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Another funny thing about Phantasmagoria is the number of cds used, 7. But what's odd is there is so much junk duplicated across each of the discs that it almost seems like they could have used less. Characters and scenes that aren't seen until towards the end are are on the first disc. Plus other random junk and unused animation, like Roberta here. Or if you feel like being an rear end in a top hat. 
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Oct 26, 2013 23:02
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Casimir Radon posted:But what's odd is there is so much junk duplicated across each of the discs that it almost seems like they could have used less. On a side note, backers just got the beta for Moebius chapters 3, 4, and 5 and there's yet to be a cat-hair moustache type puzzle, if anyone was worried. ookiimarukochan fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 27, 2013 |
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Oct 27, 2013 00:13
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ookiimarukochan posted:I believe this was fairly common with CD-era games, for "reasons" (data on the edge of the disc loading faster etc. Some games on PC and console dumped in junk data - and it wasn't always junk, I remember reading the first pressing of Rebel Assault accidentally included a full copy of deluxe paint)  I bought a copy of Secrets of Shadows of the Empire a while back. The entire project encompassed a game, a novel, a comic, a soundtrack, and toys. It was intended to test the waters for what became the prequel trilogy. There's an entire chapter devoted to how a compact disc works.
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Oct 27, 2013 04:31
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Casimir Radon posted:Cat-hair mustache was an anomaly.
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Oct 27, 2013 13:02
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This seems the best place to ask for help. Has anyone tried replaying the first Deponia lately and ran into a bug where hotspots simply vanish (the cursor doesn't react to them at all, making them unusable.) I've ran into it twice now, both at the post office 1. Unable to use the ladder to exit the radioman's tower. Talking to him fixed it. 2. Interacting with the orange cat (the hatch worked still.) Had to exit and re-enter the screen a ton of times before it decided to work. Is there any fix for this? I'm worried it'll cause complete breaks later on. I'm on Win 8.1 and already tried the mouse lag fix to no effect. EDIT: Number 2 seems to fix itself after exiting and re-entering the area about a dozen times. 1 can occur at a point where the game will become unwinnable as you cannot exit the area, though. The steam forums have a few posts about it. tldr; Save often in Deponia and use multiple slots Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 27, 2013 |
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Oct 27, 2013 13:26
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ookiimarukochan posted:I'm aware of that, I'm aware of why it made it into the game, and who "designed" it (not Jane Jensen) but unfortunately it seems that most people aren't - I know it was brought up over and over again when the Pinkerton Road kickstarter was active.
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Oct 27, 2013 20:07
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So the past few days I suddenly had the urge to pull Missing: Since January out from the back of my PC gaming cabinet. I'm actually shocked the game still works. It's a 10 year old quasi-ARG from a little studio in France with a heavy reliance on in-game websites and e-mail accounts, but as far as I can tell they're all still up and running long after the US publisher for the game has gone defunct. It's a quirky little thing with translation issues, bad FMV acting, and a couple of real stinkers for puzzles (basically whenever they try to do their own version of a classic arcade game), but I have a soft spot for it. I'm actually considering doing a Let's Play of it just to sort of archive it for posterity before the websites do finally disappear. Has anyone else played this game? It also had a sequel called Evidence: The Last Ritual.
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Oct 28, 2013 00:57
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Oh man, I'll definitely get the GK1 remake, the Gabriel Knight games are rad. (Though I still need to finish 3.) Also I'm going to have to recommend Gone Home, because its practically all the cool sequences of investigating and exploring in games distilled into its purest form without any really "gamey" stuff like forced combat or obtuse puzzles to drag you out of it. Its a lot of fun, really immersive, and nicely written. Now that that first episode is out, The Wolf Among Us is also really good so far. I was a bit worried, but Telltale seems like it'll do fine without Sean and Jake. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 01:57
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Mokinokaro posted:tldr; Save often in Deponia and use multiple slots That's a good rule of thumb for any Daedalic Entertainment adventure game.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:19
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macnbc posted:So the past few days I suddenly had the urge to pull Missing: Since January out from the back of my PC gaming cabinet. Holy crap. I remember this game. Yeah, it would be awesome to see a LP for this game before all the websites disappear. It wasn't a bad IDEA, just... well... Some puzzles are just real stinkers as you say.
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Oct 28, 2013 14:39
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Is that kind of in the same way that the Who Framed Roger Rabbit game now can't be beaten because you had to call a real phone number? (And probably couldn't be beaten outside the USA, either).
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Oct 28, 2013 14:48
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Waldorf Sixpence posted:Is that kind of in the same way that the Who Framed Roger Rabbit game now can't be beaten because you had to call a real phone number? (And probably couldn't be beaten outside the USA, either). Kind of. While there are some puzzles that rely on real-world info you can probably get from sites outside the game, there's also ones that link to puzzle solutions only kept on in-game websites.
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Oct 28, 2013 15:07
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I picked up a boxed copy of Toonstruck last year at some point, and I've finally gotten around to starting it. It works awesome in ScummVM. Just want to say, I'm really enjoying it so far. The animation is really nice, the UI is actually pretty good, the voice work is decent (and Christopher Lloyd is just awesome anyway), and so far, it's been free of bullshit adventure game logic puzzles. This game never seemed to be that well known, which is crazy considering the cast, but I would definitely recommend it if you can get ahold of it. A Proper Uppercut fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 18:38
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It's a goood game. Just gets a bit  later on. You'll know it when you see it.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:13
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There's a teaser out for Samorost 3. It's not due until early 2015 at this point, and there's not too much to the video but I'm still excited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoNjWEAHQZ0 Here's a little blurb about the game: "One day, the little space gnome will find strange flute (magical, of course) which fell down from the sky. With its help, he'll be able to build a new spaceship, explore five different planets and four moons, solve many mysteries and also find out where the flute came from."
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Oct 28, 2013 21:00
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Seriously Samorost 2 is the most  game I've ever played, so I can't wait. I love that dog.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:04
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