|
Montegoraon posted:I seem to recall that 8 was actually built by Morgenroete. At some point, I think in Destiny Astray, there was a side character who got left behind when Morgenroete in Orb was evacuated, and she had a bunch of identical computer systems with her. 8 was not built by Morgenroete. Morgenroete later built a series of AIs based on 8 after Lowe helped them out. Elijah's backstory is silly. He is a defective Coordinator but still a Coordinator. On multiple occasions he demonstrates that he has above-average human reaction time, he's just shittier than a non-defective Coordinator. There's actually a subplot where a pilot who had to work hard hates Elijah because despite the fact that he's super-crappy by Coordinator standards he's still got a natural advantage. Montegoraon posted:Maybe. Now that I think about it, ZAFT must have had an equivalent to a natural-use OS as well, because they had at least one natural pilot in their forces: Rau Le Creuset. Prayer Reverie was also able to use a ZAFT mobile suit unaided. Prayer and Rau (and Rey) are all Coordinators. They're also Newtypes because whatever the gently caress, Gundam SEED. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Oct 4, 2013 |
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 03:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 23:54 |
|
|
Gundam Seed talk always makes me think about Gattaca.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 03:18
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Prayer and Rau (and Rey) are all Coordinators. They're also Newtypes because whatever the gently caress, Gundam SEED. Al Da Flaga disowned his son because he wasn't genetically identical to him. I'm pretty sure that's the type of person who would never allow his biological successors to be modified into coordinators. Edit: Also, I just checked the SRW W Let's Play. Rau does not have the coordinator skill in that game, nor does Prayer. Montegoraon fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Oct 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 03:25
|
|
|
Montegoraon posted:Al Da Flaga disowned his son because he wasn't genetically identical to him. I'm pretty sure that's the type of person who would never allow his biological successors to be modified into coordinators. Al Da Flaga funded the Ultimate Coordinator project and official errata material lists Rau and Rey as Coordinators. Games go back and forth on it. Prayer is iffer since he's only confirmed as a Coordinator in one of the sequels after he becomes a Carbon Human. (And boy is everything connected to that stupid as gently caress.) A few games have given them the Coordinator attribute but what games usually do is instead give them the "Spatial Awareness" skill which is shorthand for "Newtype" and fits their units better. (Kira Yamato and Morgan Chevalier also get it.) Basically blame SEED for being dumb. In Z it doesn't really matter because Z doesn't actually have a Coordinator special skill, only SEED. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Oct 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 03:37
|
|
|
Brunom1 posted:The Astray OS, developed by Morgenroete (based on data from both the Strike and Red Frame), enabled Naturals to pilot MSs. So it turns out the Naturals can only pilot worth a drat if they're running off the movement and reaction data of a Coordinator. Heh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 09:45
|
|
|
AradoBalanga posted:Except being whiny racist assholes. Or colossal douchebags. Naturals excel in those departments GREATLY. I've never seen SEED, and if SRW J is anything to go by, mother of gently caress they are douchebags on a whole new level! I know you hate Coordinators and all but why the gently caress are you going to send nukes to a civilian space station???
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 12:51
|
|
|
KDavisJr posted:I've never seen SEED, and if SRW J is anything to go by, mother of gently caress they are douchebags on a whole new level! Their goal is genocide to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 13:17
|
|
|
KDavisJr posted:I've never seen SEED, and if SRW J is anything to go by, mother of gently caress they are douchebags on a whole new level! It is something of a Gundam tradition for the endgame to make at least one side, if not both, escalate things out of control and go bugfuck insane with the war crimes thing. With that said, I'm pretty sure that Naturals are the worst of the bunch.  fake edit: Thinking about it, Gundam X and CCA are a bit comparable but in the former the destruction is worse but done in the backstory by faceless entities, while in the latter people stop Char from the worse parts of his plan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 13:37
|
|
|
Besides, ZAFT proceeds to decide that burning the face of the Earth clear of human habitation is a good idea.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 13:46
|
|
|
Villains in Seed are only capable of two things: being stupid as hell, and being a mustache-twirling caricature of a human being. It's almost like Seed is written poorly!
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2013 17:50
|
|
|
veekie posted:Besides, ZAFT proceeds to decide that burning the face of the Earth clear of human habitation is a good idea. I never said they were all right and good either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2013 06:35
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Al Da Flaga funded the Ultimate Coordinator project and official errata material lists Rau and Rey as Coordinators. Games go back and forth on it. Prayer is iffer since he's only confirmed as a Coordinator in one of the sequels after he becomes a Carbon Human. (And boy is everything connected to that stupid as gently caress.) A few games have given them the Coordinator attribute but what games usually do is instead give them the "Spatial Awareness" skill which is shorthand for "Newtype" and fits their units better. (Kira Yamato and Morgan Chevalier also get it.) Well you said it, SEED is dumb. Rau is a clone of Al Da Flaga. Al Da Flaga was not a coordinator but had Big Boss level genes. Therefore Rau is an artificial human but not a Coordinator by the definition of coordinator used in the series. Same applies to Prayer therefore. Montegoraon posted:Maybe. Now that I think about it, ZAFT must have had an equivalent to a natural-use OS as well, because they had at least one natural pilot in their forces: Rau Le Creuset. Prayer Reverie was also able to use a ZAFT mobile suit unaided. No one knew Rau was a Natural. His super duper genes meant everyone though he was a Coordinator the whole time. Additionally... veekie posted:Wasn't Naturals unable to make Gundams work because the controls were just that complicated? Presumably you need to keep track of a dozen variables and inputs because gently caress automation. The problem was the OS which was a buggy POS. They couldn't program a control system that would let them control the suits in any feasible way. Remember that ZAFT attacks before the Gundams are actually combat ready, and that all of the ZAFT kids program new OSes on the fly to use the stolen gundams. The Zaft OS worked perfectly fine, it just required you to be a coordinator superman to use it for some reason. The "Natural Use OS" that Kira made is probably just a simplified, scaled down version that automates the stuff the Coordinators weren't willing to to show off their inherent superiority or something. The OS thing is such a weird thing. SEED technology barely aspires to coherent sense to begin with, but it seems unfeasible to me that despite months of effort and the data from the Strike they were unable to make a Natural use OS. Additionally the OS lets a mobile suit run fine while being simpler, so why didn't the Coordinators make something like that for themselves if it was just as good and easier to run? Presumably the Druggies used a Natural OS and they kicked rear end, or did they actually use a Coordinator OS and needed the drugs to keep up? And exactly why were the Coordinator OSes impossible to use? Did the EA never try to adapt them or downscale them? Could they really not train someone to use a Coordinator OS? Or where they hidden behind unbreakable data locks like the one Kira whipped up on the fly? And do they know how silly "Unbreakable Data Lock" is?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 04:46
|
|
|
 Our second time-stop will be to Japan; per norm with Japan routes, Crowe's reasoning is that the island is in trouble. "Not that I'm trying to be a hero, but I don't exactly want to play the villain." The same scene plays out between Crowe and his crew, with the upshot that his debt still sits at an even 1.5 million.  Give me back my 10,010 G! And Saji is delivered the bad news, of course.  Let's begin the chapter proper with Kitan subjecting Nia to what I suppose passes for an interrogation:  Let's start with your name. I am Nia. What is your name? I'm friggin' Kitan, oldest in the Black Family and assault leader of GOONZ and the Great Gurren Gang! I'm Gimmy! I'm Darry... I'm Tohachiro Kinoshita, COO of Takeo General company! Get outta here! You're messing me up! But, Kitan, this is the mess hall. Yeah, and it's sorta lunchtime. Eat your fill, Kappei. There's always more. Thanks, Ms. Ikue! Come on, you guys, be serious... You realize, Kitan, you're the last one on the boat treating her like a POW.It's true! Nia's won the hearts of all of GOONZ with her little speech to Simon, and only Kitan still thinks she's an enemy. I'm an enemy? Of course you are! You're the bad guy! We're supposed to beat you up! How does one "beat one up"? Well, you... I mean, we hit you with our fists... What is a fist?This is clearly unproductive. Eventually, Simon himself tells Kitan so, and while he doesn't have to like it, Kitan can't say no to his chief. Renton backs Simon up, and for some reason, Simon suspects that Renton is hiding a lot of pain, though Eureka gives him the strength to fight despite it. (If there's one thing I don't get about E7's showing in this game, it's that everything about Renton and Eureka is aggressively standardized Hero/Rescuee romance.) In the background, GOONZ sees Kitan's clearly not the best choice to interrogate a girl like Nia, but who would be? Juri's in the running because of his cool, logical demeanor, but the man himself insists that that actually makes him worse for the job: logic isn't what you need to level at a girl like Nia. Aoyama's actually scared that he'll make her run off to her daddy, the king of the beastmen. What's the beastman king like, anyway? Kouji predicts something leonine, Sayaka imagines he's big like an elephant, and Tanigawa's hoping he's the cutest, like a panda. As long as we're bringing up all these animals, though, it's be good to remember that his daugher, Nia, looks 100% human. The Spiral King is probably fairly human too, at least on the outside. They do say daughters look like fathers. Crowe, again, gripes that all his dad did was drop a mountain of debt on him - in contrast to Watta's, who left him Trider and his own company. Kappei's dad leads a fishing outfit, and Kappei wonders if he's still pulling in big hauls. Toshiya's dad lead a research team to Jupiter's moon Io, and Marin's was a chief of research on S-1, much like Sayaka's own father. And Marin's dad's life was taken as he sent Marin to Earth. Kouji's lost his too, dead in an experiment gone bad, though he was always in the lab even when he was alive, so Kouji doesn't really remember him. Takeru has lost two fathers, both at the hand of Emperor Zuul, and he wants to avenge them, just like Jiron wants to take down Timp. Fathers, right?  Ibuki glares at Akagi, warns him not to say a word, and leaves. That's suspicious, and she and Akagi have been seen whispering to each other for a while. Akagi swears they're not going out, and Aoyama can believe it - Ibuki's too serious to go out with this idiot. "And if you want us to believe you're not, go a single battle without her yelling at you."  Anyway, we're back home in good old Japan, and what should be waiting for 21st Century but a hot dish of report forms? They're necessary to uphold the contract between GOONZ and 21st Century, and Takeo has to do them too... though it's probably much less intense the smaller company you are, and besides, Takeo is actually in the black for once. Crowe is lending 21st a hand - for pocket money, of course. He's already wrung a bit out of the company for that Damon data. Wonder what they're using it for? Crowe doesn't care - he's always happy to cut a deal with a megacorp and they paid him quite a lot on R&D's budget. Let's talk about R&D! Specifically, let's talk about little Rika Domeki, prodigy head of R&D, who's dragged Ibuki out to a private conference...  And unfortunately, Domeki absolutely wants to talk about Ibuki's dad. Eijiro Sakurai authored "Introductory Notes on Dimensional Confluence Events," and in doing so revolutionized scientific understanding of the physics behind dimensional quakes. Now this little (self-described) genius girl is using it to look into Heterodynes. Why? "'cause, I've understood everything since I was little. The world is boring. But Heterodynes and the interdimensional physics behind them are new. No one understands one bit about them. I gotta know! I had to know! I want to strip the Heterodynes naked!" Once Domeki calms down, she has another question for Ibuki - it was in Dr. Sakurai's file that he had a daughter named Ibuki, but why is Ibuki's surname Momoi? Well, Ibuki's mom just remarried after Sakurai was killed, but Ibuki actually wants to say something about her given name. This isn't something Ibuki has ever told anyone before, but Sakurai's unit of energy in fractal particle physics is named the Breath after her. Her dad called her "Ibuki," meaning "breath," so she would breathe new hope into the coming generation. Of course, half the reason she's in Dai-Guard is to avenge her dad's death at Heterodyne hands, so she's not doing a great job living up to it. On the other hand, the other half is that her dad was the only one who realized the danger of Heterodynes and the one person who ultimately had to give his own life to prove that to the world. As his daughter, she has to protect innocents from the Heterodyne menace - to make sure he didn't die in vain. Really? Domeki thinks he had a more selfish motive in mind. Did Ibuki even read his book? She did, but then why would she still think that? Dimensional particle theory was the theoretical basis for attempts to trigger quakes, and Sakurai was very aware of that - it would have led to the ability to pass into parallel universes, and he would have been eager to try to make that a reality. In fact, he could have been first in line to turn the results from Warsaw into a practical experiment. In short, Dr. Sakurai was researching dimensional quakes to rewrite all of particle physics singlehandedly! What, he just wanted fame and fortune? Not exactly. Domeki admits that scientists aren't necessarily doing things like that out of greed - really, they just want to solve puzzles and learn about reality. In a sense, he was playing the game he wanted to play. Heterodynes to him were research subjects, and all he wanted the world to do was accept his theories and recognize his accomplishments. Scientists aren't heroes. They're basically kids with the world as their playground. And to show Ibuki what she means, she's got something she wants her to watch - a video of the Heterodyne attack twelve years ago...  with Eijiro's face in a corner, overcome with glee. Domeki insists Ibuki must have realized this as soon as she read his book; she just suppressed the knowledge so she could keep convincing herself her dad was a hero. If she ever learned the truth, she would have no idea what she was fighting for. The father she remembers is a construct of false memories she created to hide the truth from herself. Welp, that's all the talking she feels like doing today. The only thing she wants to leave Ibuki with is: "If you don't drop your illusions already, you'll never really be Ibuki Momoi."  But when Domeki leaves, this fucker enters. He dearly wants to meet the great Eijiro Sakurai's daughter. He wants to say that Ibuki's right - Eijiro was a hero. What's more, the reason he, Ime Liard, is with the Imperium is to carry on Eijiro's research. Ibuki doesn't believe him, but he knows she wants to - Eijiro was not only a hero, he was a saint, and his work is what gave Ime the power to cleanse the world of taint. Ibuki definitely doesn't want to believe that her father is ultimately responsible for summoning Gaioh...  She screams, and the rest of GOONZ rushes in to find Ime very full of himself and Ibuki depressed. Ime just says he told Ibuki "the truth" about her father, and naturally, the reason he did it: to cause Crowe's scales to waver!  Chapter 34: The Father I Remember (Japan route)  Ime calls his Damons and GOONZ deploys to intercept. Nia's joined the Great Gurren's bridge crew, and Trider's gotten an upgrade - two new weapons (Trider Beam Canon and Trider Saber), increased HP and EN, and an across-the-board weapon powerup. Neat, I guess. (There's a reason Renton's been allowed out of his cage.)  Iizuka and Kokubougar have also come to back us up, which is good, because Dai-Guard isn't quite read to launch just yet. Iizuka's pretty sure he can take down the Damon army by the time Akagi shows up. Ime Liard, meanwhile, is very proud of his job, and as before, he's also looking forward to the showdown between Crowe and the newly enraged Marguerite.  In a reversal from the CB route, this time our goal is to focus on Pearlnail first of all, taking her down within three turns. For once we're free to ignore  the horde of annoying Bulldamon mooks. Argh!  Nia's low-level, but that just means she'll level fast. She starts with Trust and Exhaust (which she can't use even once).  Let's demonstrate some basic moves for Redpen and those two amateurs. Don't you forget, Imperium! Kokubougar is one of the defenders of Japan!    Having to deal with an unupgraded unit always sucks.  Ime Liard has the power to cause dimensional quakes... Is that what Holland's trying to do with me and Eureka?  That's it, I'm putting Renton away again. (To clarify, that was null damage on a wounded Damon - at this point in the game, it's not easy to fail to break the D-Fault's flat limit.) Fight hard, everyone! That's nice! She's raising the crew's spirits! If Simon's the Chief of the Great Gurren Gang, she can be the mascot! Needless to say, I'm the queen. Put your backs into it, men! Nia's cheering us on! The Great Gurren is never to scale.  I like when bosses put in some effort - Pearlnail goes for the Brasta immediately.  En guarde, Crowe Brust! I think she's serious this time... she wants my blood, huh?! You took from me the last thing I had! You will pay! ...I don't care if you're some fancy honorable knight, you gotta stay frosty on the battlefield. If I'm fighting for my life, I fight like I want to live. That means giving it all I've got...      Crowe has Assail again.   Dai-Guard deploys at the beginning of the turn; the others insist the pilots can take it easy, but Ibuki claims she's worked up her resolve. Ime decides that if she really wants to fight, he'll give her a proper challenger...  The first Heterodyne from twelve years ago - the same type that killed Dr. Sakurai! He says the underlying principles between the quakes that call Damons and the ones that spawn Heterodynes are basically the same; all he had to do was duplicate the conditions from twelve years ago and it creates the same type of Heterodyne. Basically, he was only able to do this by following Ibuki's father's, Dr. Sakurai's, work. While GOONZ wonders how Dr. Sakurai can be Ibuki Momoi's dad, Ibuki is just spurred on by the thought that his work is being used for evil.  So we have to take down that Heterodyne!  But first, let's clear Renton out.            Pearlnail is tough.           Like, seriously. I'm gonna have to start summarizing individual bosses at this rate.       Something like this: a bunch of GOONZ wears down Marguerite, and Crowe finishes her off. He gets a Vernier, the SR Point, and a mysterious line about how Marguerite couldn't avenge her brother. Anyway, back to our show - fighting through Bulldamons towards the Heterodyne Insectos R.  We're moving in, Ibuki! (Dad didn't fly at that Heterodyne to help the world. He just did it for himself...) (Then why am I here?) Ibuki? What's the matter, Ibuki? Are you feeling okay? I'm fine... it's nothing...   So, Ibuki.  Also, it's the end of round 2 and aaaaaahhh.  God, it looks so miserable.     It looks like breath is a pretty big deal in the life of Sakurai.   By the way, if you want to see what's so lovely about Bulldamons in one shot, pick one of these. The Morale curve puts us around 120 at this point. It's turn 3 and these two are still at 100, not only because of Shocking Horns but also because Bulldamons are ridiculously high-spec for shock troops and only four of them are actually dead (though that's partly because focusing on Pearlnail meant not setting aside time for a lot of dedicated extermination).  For instance, if I stop to put my secondaries to work cleaning up, I find seven more weakened and waiting to be slain. Of course, usually the better strategy is to focus on the healthy ones, and let the weakened ones take counterattacks on their own turn, but in this case I need some quick Will, especially with all the Will drain I've had to deal with, before I start hammering Insectos. Plus, it's always good to take Bulldamons off the board before they shock you.    So, this shouldn't be too hard, unless...  The Heterodyne, weakened, attempts to crawl away. Dai-Guard gives pursuit, preparing the Knot Punisher.  Suddenly...  Dammit! It regenerated! Ibuki! I need range data! (Dad really wanted to help people. I'm not just fooling myself...) Ibuki! (If I was, all the times I've fought Heterodyne, all the times I've tried to help people...) (Might as well have been for nothing...) Ibuki! ! The Heterodyne's attack damages Dai-Guard's generator, and it returns to the Great-Gurren for repairs. It's not just the robot that's damaged, either... Ime gloats that he'll take everything Crowe holds dear one by one, just like this, and when Crowe has nothing left to live for, he'll be there to take his life. But GOONZ, including Crowe, know Dai-Guard isn't down for the count yet...  As Dai-Guard's pit crew rushes an emergency repair job, Akagi explains what he knows of Ibuki's past that he's kept secret all this time. There doesn't seem to be anything they can really say to her, and without her, Dai-Guard's going nowhere even with its guts patched up.  Domeki pops up to reveal what Ibuki learned before Ime stuck his nose in it, about how Sakurai was just a scientist, not a good guy. But she quickly adds that you can't fault the scientist if his theories are applied for evil. Science isn't good or evil, it just is, and how it's used is a totally different matter. But she almost left out the most important part: who told her all that! The rest of 21st Century lets her have it, since they know about this little thing called "tact," but unfortunately, what's done is done. Also, Dai-Guard's patched up, and Akagi's taking Dai-Guard out - with both Aoyama and Ibuki, ready or not!  Okay, Ibuki! We're good to go, right? I... I don't know what you're going through! I can't even pretend I have a clue! But your dad is just your dad, and you're still you! Don't worry about him! Fight for what you believe in! What I...? You're not Ibuki Sakurai or Ibuki Momoi! You're Ibuki, employee of 21st Century Security! ...I'm just going to drag you guys down! I have no idea what to do! I... I can't... Well, join the club! Wh...  I've been there, and everyone helped me out! Everyone messes up sometimes! But we're still here, aren't we? So it's our turn to back you up! That's how we got this far as a team! You guys... No one can do everything by themselves! Everyone has to depend on someone else sometime! That's why we're together! If you're having trouble, let me help! I think you mean let us help, jerk! I've got your back, Ibuki! You can do it! Aoyama... It's not even just us! You've got all of GOONZ! And you've got... Dai-Guard! ... Well, Ibuki? I think you know who to trust over that liar. Yeah, I do... Here we go, Akagi! Aoyama! Roger. Output stable. All yours, Akagi! Right! Let's stop that Heterodyne! Analyze!       Double attacks!       Single really really good attack! (That's not with Valor, folks.) Heterodyne's at 200 and moving in! It's good to have you back, Ibuki! Celebrate later, Akagi! Here comes the Heterodyne! 100 now! That's your range, Akagi! About time! Here I go, Ibuki! Dai-Guard didn't exist twelve years ago, but now we're here and so is he! We can deal with any Heterodyne!      Having defeated Insectos and Ibuki's inner demons, we've also defeated Ime Liard for now. But again, Ime is proud that "though your scales wavered, your fulcrum did not break." He takes his Damons and goes, but now we know that whatever pranks he tries to pull on Crowe, we can get through it together.  Later, Watta wants to tell Ibuki he doesn't think her dad regretted what he'd done. When his own dad was injured on the job, he'd tell Watta, "A man stakes his life on his job. A scratch like this isn't gonna stop me." Ibuki knows she'll never understand exactly why her dad flew at that Heterodyne, but at least she knows it's what he really wanted to do. If she's going to follow his example, it'll be by finding out what she really wants to do and doing it - and, at least for now, that way lies with Dai-Guard and GOONZ. Office girls can fight for peace, too. Crowe wonders if she's had her illusions of her dad shattered; Ibuki replies that every child can't help but love their parents. Even Crowe's piece of crap deadbeat dad, he admits. Maybe that's why he's choosing to pay back his old man's debt instead of skipping it. But he gets her to promise not to share that - he's got an image to maintain.  Anyway, Sayaka has breaking news - Baron Ashura is declaring war on all of Japan!  On Dr. Hell's order, Mechabeasts will overrun Japan in twenty-four hours - unless both Japan and GOONZ surrender unconditionally. Being GOONZ, of course, we have a much better solution...
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 05:38
|
|
|
It's really hard to take that Heterodyne seriously when it looks like a giant shrimp... Also, Aim, stop trolling the Dai-Guard folk! They already have a stressful enough job without you! 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 11:50
|
|
|
Omnicrom posted:The problem was the OS which was a buggy POS. They couldn't program a control system that would let them control the suits in any feasible way. Remember that ZAFT attacks before the Gundams are actually combat ready, and that all of the ZAFT kids program new OSes on the fly to use the stolen gundams. The Zaft OS worked perfectly fine, it just required you to be a coordinator superman to use it for some reason. The "Natural Use OS" that Kira made is probably just a simplified, scaled down version that automates the stuff the Coordinators weren't willing to to show off their inherent superiority or something. Well, if it were to make sense, I'd think that Coordinator-OS exposes a lot more variables for you to control, giving you full control access over all the individual thrusters and joints so you can use Coordinator superman powers to squeeze out every last bit of performance and do crazy maneuvers by allocating individual thrust amounts to make your robot do a ballet, while a Natural pilot doesn't want or need all these damned inputs, just the ability to make move, dodge the more obvious attacks and use the arms to hold and fire guns. Based off that, Natural-OS obfuscates all those detailed controls to exchange for broad directions. You specify your direction of movement and the computer uses the movement patterns for the terrain to do the walking. You lock a target and the arms move and fire(though that means you don't really have any advantage to arms, since you might as well use hardpoint mounted weapons) for you. You probably want to avoid close combat since it's going to be finicky as hell. And the druggies likely use Coordinator-OS because of the performance gaps.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 12:08
|
|
|
I almost forgot about Dr. Hell and his mechabeast-related shenanigans! From the way the next chapter is shaping up, were going to get back to good ol' fashioned rear end kicking: no mind fuckery, no whining about the past, just one total beatdown!
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 19:31
|
|
|
veekie posted:Well, if it were to make sense, I'd think that Coordinator-OS exposes a lot more variables for you to control, giving you full control access over all the individual thrusters and joints so you can use Coordinator superman powers to squeeze out every last bit of performance and do crazy maneuvers by allocating individual thrust amounts to make your robot do a ballet, while a Natural pilot doesn't want or need all these damned inputs, just the ability to make move, dodge the more obvious attacks and use the arms to hold and fire guns. The problem is that they never go into this at all in SEED. I would also assume this how the OSes are different, but they never say as much, it's never relevant to the plot, and therefore the OSes are just a poorly implemented Plot Device (In SEED? Perish the thought I know). As for the most recent update I have to say that Japanese Salarymen with Giant Robots are awesome and Ime Liard deserves every death you can heap on him because he's a lovely person.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2013 02:24
|
|
|
Brunom1 posted:Also, Aim, stop trolling the Dai-Guard folk! They already have a stressful enough job without you! Aim's developing into a bastard. I really like it, honestly. So often in these games you never see characters respond too much to villains from outside their own series other than by parroting the hero's lines or going "Hey, you're that rear end in a top hat! Imma beat you up!" Aim's stirring up some real enmity with GOONZ as a whole here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2013 02:40
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:Aim's developing into a bastard. Wait a sec Aim wasn't a bastard already?
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2013 08:21
|
|
|
Omnicrom posted:The problem is that they never go into this at all in SEED. I would also assume this how the OSes are different, but they never say as much, it's never relevant to the plot, and therefore the OSes are just a poorly implemented Plot Device (In SEED? Perish the thought I know). Hence the if. I seriously doubt they thought that far, especially given what we can see of the control scheme.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2013 09:32
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:Aim's developing into a bastard. Caphi will certainly be agreeing with you later on. Remember that Ime still has a ??? skill that hasn't been shown off yet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2013 04:51
|
|
|
 Tsubasa is talking with Profs. Nossori, Sewashi, and Morimori about the attacks on Atami. They're concerned that her business is suffering with the citizens trying to escape the carnage - but if she ever needs help, they're there for her. Tsubasa doesn't give a poo poo, she wants to know how they're doing on the thing she asked them for. They're almost done with it, and all they've asked in exchange is a home-cooked feast at the Kurogane. Whatever, as long as they make it quick; what they're making is going to be vital in the upcoming conflicts. Well, they'll get it done, all right, but they can't guarantee how quickly. Tsubasa will have to make do in the meantime...  And as it happens, a certain man owes her a lot of back room and board.  Meanwhile, Dr. Hell is making his own plans. The only way Ashura will make up for his/her failures is to crush GOONZ and capture Mazinger Z for himself. Ashura swears s/he'll get the job done this time.  Then Dr. Hell receives a data dump he requested from the Gishin. And it confirms whatever suspicions he had about the Imperium, and that he has no time to waste. "Ashura, you must claim Mazinger Z. The future of our planet, of our race depends on it."  Soldiers, including Kokubougar, have been deployed across Japan in anticipation of Dr. Hell's charge, but outside of Kokubougar, it's highly doubtful that they'll be able to handle a Mechabeast - certainly not without heavy casualties. So we're spreading out across Japan to help out. Crowe will be on the team headed southward with Kouji and Sayaka, and quips that whoever runs into that team must have drawn the short straw. Kouji's already psyching himself up, a reminder that it was by Ashura's hand that his grandfather died. Gainer offers to transfer to Kouji's team, but Shirota shoots him down; his own team needs King Gainer's abilities too much. Still, Crowe and Sayaka see why - Kouji's emotions are too high, and while they can't blame him for feeling that way, losing his cool in combat is going to take him straight into a trap. That's probably why Shirota assigned Crowe to watch these kids' back, and he's going to do the job.  Chapter 35: Onslaught! The Mechabeast Stratagem! (Japan route)  None of these mooks have Ashura leading them. Sayaka reports that there are three nearby ongoing firefights, and Kouji asks if Ashura's in any of those. Wherever Ashura is, he'll chase him/her down!  That won't be necessary! Ashura dares Kouji to catch him/her and bolts.  In a development absolutely everybody saw coming, Kouji goes after him/her. Crowe tries to stop him...  But as it turns out, Crowe going after Kouji was part of the trap - Kingdon X10 jumps Aphrodite from the other side! Ashura is still too terrified of Mazinger Z to make a direct move, but now s/he has his/her hands on Sayaka, and delivers Kouji his/her ultimatum - surrender himself and Mazinger Z to be taken back to Dr. Hell, or Sayaka Yumi's life is forfeit! Mazinger is Kouji's memento of his grandfather and his inheritance of Juuzou's will. But... avenging his grandfather wouldn't mean anything if he had to sacrifice Sayaka in the process! Ashura laughs and leads Kouji and Sayaka away to the Seafloor Fortress Salud, leaving Crowe to wonder what's so great about Mazinger Z that Dr. Hell would take on all of Japan to claim it. Ashura shoos him away with no answer, but a message for GOONZ' leaders - their time is coming. But Crowe knows that GOONZ won't just lie down and take it - and, even now, neither will Kouji Kabuto.  Of course, Ashura's not letting Sayaka or Kouji free. Just seeing Ashura before his eyes, but powerless to do anything about it, is torture enough for Kouji, and Ashura is enjoying him/herself enough to just let him rot in his cell until Dr. Hell passes judgment. In the meantime, Ashura is going to savor every second of Kouji's rage. Kouji still has faith that GOONZ will come for him, but Ashura is certain they've already met their untimely end at the claws of the Mechabeasts. Unfortunately, as much as s/he'd like to continue enjoying Kouji's company, s/he has places to be. Kouji knows just how badly he screwed up. If only he could pass his coordinates to GOONZ...  He'll get the chance to do more than that; this Iron Mask is breaking him out, and his boys are already doing the same to Sayaka.  It's no Iron Mask - it's this guy!  Crowe may have screwed up protecting Kouji and Sayaka, but he hasn't come back to GOONZ emptyhanded. He's left another tracer on Mazinger, and it'll take them straight to the Seafloor Fortress - but it doesn't help them while Kouji and Sayaka are trapped inside underneath all that water. There doesn't seem to be any way to save them... Actually, Crowe suggests there's a way, but it's taking a gamble - because it involves Kouji breaking himself out first. Kappei and Watta vote we just bet on Kouji and move out, but Hayato doesn't think so; if we get there and Kouji's still inside, they're as good as dead. We might as well just write those two off. Gainer's musing; the reason he predicted Kouji would walk into a trap was because he's been there himself; that's what the Overdevil will do to a guy. The way he escaped the Overdevil's influence was being reminded that he wasn't alone. Could it work for Kouji?  Unfortunately, we've got more immediate problems to worry about : a quartet of killer Gamia Q robots disguised as beautiful women! Luckily, Gain saw through the ruse in time. But don't worry; we've seen how good GOONZ is at straight combat with our without their robots, and they don't take kindly to assassination plots. Meanwhile, back on the Salud...  Damnation! Gh... how does this Pilder machine work? It looks so harmless, yet if I attempt to pilot it... How it bucks and shakes! How does Kouji Kabuto control it? Curses! Once Mazinger Z is in Dr. Hell's hands, I will destroy this thing! Ashura gives up and storms out, so Kouji, Sayaka, Boss, and his minions Mucha and Nuke creep out. Boss's crew's been staying at the Kurogane since the Mechabeasts started their rampage, and she's been putting them to work. Now she's predicted that Ashura's plan would involve Salud and got them to slip in before the plan even went off. Well, we do owe Boss, all right, and Kouji wants to do something to thank him - even be one of Boss's minions himself. Boss tells him not to be stupid. He doesn't want Kouji to be his minion. He wants Kouji to fight him again, after this whole thing is over. Getting a free minion would be boring, but a rematch would be awesome! Kouji can't turn down those terms!  The Iron Masks discover them, but Mucha and Nuke have a few tricks up their sleeve - they're masters at the slingshot and drunken boxing, respectively, and it's more than enough to handle the Masks! Boss just watches, having had no idea his minions were, well, competent.  Unfortunately, even they can't handle the fifth Gamia Q. Kouji yells at them to escape in Aphrodite while he goes for Mazinger. Boss tosses him a photon raygun - a gift from the landlady - so he can hold off Gamia...  You know what's awesome? Water stages. Mazinger and Aphrodite blow their way out of the Salud just in time, since Ashura was about to set sail for Bardos. Ashura is shocked that Kouji managed to take down Gamia, but shouldn't be. Don't forget who he's been training under - he's learned piloting from Akagi and Watta and brawling with Takeru and the Getter Team. The strength of GOONZ is always with him, even when they're not! This isn't going to stop Ashura, though - s/he'll capture Mazinger Z if s/he has to shoot it down by force. That said, Kouji's not being an idiot this time, and he knows that Mazinger and Aphrodite can't stand up to the Salud in the water. So he wants Sayaka to get to the island while he holds it off in his stronger robot. She's signaled GOONZ, and they're already on their way.  The SR Point is to complete the stage in 6 turns. Just noting it.  Aphrodite's poo poo in water.  Kouji is standing his ground - he refuses to move a single square.  The best move right now is to cast Invicible and absorb the Salud's attack.  The Salud is invicible under the water! You're done for, Kouji Kabuto! Hang on, Mazinger! We have to win - no matter who, no matter what! You're my grandpa's Mazinger Z! You can't break!       Units highly not to scale.    Mazinger can't put up a good fight under water - all he can do is not die.  Oh, Sayaka...   With Aphrodite on land at last, Mazinger tanks the next hit. As Ashura says, Mazinger doesn't handle well in the water, but Kouji has to protect Sayaka and Boss. It's all up to him!  The cavalry's arrived! Just as Crowe said, they came early, having faith that Kouji would pull something off and escape - which wasn't easy, even with Boss's help. Ashura is, again, absolutely shocked that we survived the four Gamias, but what are you going to do? As for Kouji's water difficulties, Gainer will take care of that!  Stay away, Gainer! They'll get you too! You're not fighting by yourself, okay? Gainer... Have some faith in us! What have we fought together all this time for? I'm sorry... Do this later! You've gotta get away from the enemy! You won't get the chance! Salud will crush you first! drat it! Mazinger doesn't move right in the water! I'll take care of that! But how? Here we go! Kiiiing! Gaineeeeer!  Overfreeze! There's a pillar of ice coming up out of the water! I-impossible! How could this be? That'd be King Gainer's Overskill! Kouji! Climb that pillar! Okay! Thanks, Gainer! If he breaks through the surface... Kouji! Over here! What's that in the Great Gurren's hand? Aim for Mazinger Z! Vector, range, check! Great Gurren, wind up! Now fly, Jet Scrander! What did the Great Gurren just throw? Red... wings? Now shout, Kouji! Its name is... Its name is? Its name is? Scrander Cross! Mazinger's flying! All right! First try! This is the... Jet Scrander! That's right, Kouji! How'd you like our masterpiece? We didn't get it done in time, but all's well that end's well, right? Who are you? They're the three Photon Labs professors. We're old friends of Juuzou, since way back when we were tykes. You knew my grandpa? We did fight a lot, but there wasn't any better at robotics! He taught us all we know! Ashura, petrified, unleashes the Talos, as well as all four Mechabeasts s/he's used on Japan thus far - Kingdon, Ghostfire, Vargas, and Taurus. With his new wings, Kouji's ready to take on Ashura personally; we can have the Mechabeasts! Kouji! Now that he wears the Jet Scrander, Mazinger Z is invicible! He screams at mach 3, at heights of up to 20,000 meters! With the Jet Scrander, Mazinger Z will fly! High, fleet, and powerful! He is a perfect, mighty super robot! Jet Scrander, flyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! An extra bonus is that Sayaka has something worthwhile to attack. H-hey! You can't touch me there! We can't help it! Your cockpit's too cramped! Nothing we can do about it. Seriously! I can't believe I felt grateful to these creeps for anything!  It's sure been a while since we saw the tit missiles! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gGC1dBrYk4 Oh, and Mazinger doesn't just fly - he also has a useful new Scrander-based attack!  Other than that, does anyone actually care about the Talos? No?    The Mechabeasts still have a pile of HP though.        I spent a while thinking how to deal with them, and more generally, the still steadily ballooning amount of HP in any given stage (it will be hundreds of thousands by the end of the game), and decided I don't want to show every HP damaged for every boss. It may be gameplay, but it's not too interesting; this is just another milestone where the game gets too big for its content and I have to pack it down. Sorry if this bothers you.  Rossiu learns Analyze. With the extra power from the Jet Scrander, I'm not afraid of fighting underwater! drat you, Mazinger Z! You truly are invincible now! Get ready, Baron Ashura! This is for that dirty trick you played on me... and for everyone in Japan you've hurt!    Same thing, now with wings.        Gainer loots a Muscle Cylinder from Kingdon.  It is the bottom of turn 5; one turn left for the showdown with Baron Ashura!  You're gonna regret sending your goons into our HQ! You drove away my Gamia robots? What kind of creatures are you? You wanna see a freaky creature? Check a mirror, Ashura! Tell you what, why don't I cut you in two and put you back the way you belong! Y-you monster! Curses! Hold still, you pest! Come on, Nirvash! We'll get in quickly and hit them in the weak point! Mquee! We'll find Eureka! We can't go down yet! Rossiu! We'll use Gurren-Lagann's drills as propellers! Wow! Now Gurren-Lagann can move perfectly in the water! Blast! They're getting clever! We'll drill a hole in that ship and sink you into the ocean! H-hold on, Akagi! We can't operate underwater! I'll adjust for it! Dai-Guard'll work fine in water or in space! Seriously? You realize if the chassis breaches, we're dead? Then let me open that breach and send you to a watery grave! You won't get the chance! We've seen a lot of graves dug, but we're not going to ours today!  It's finally my time to shine! When we get underwater, that's Getter-3's job! Fool! Even you have no chance against the Salud beneath the surface! Heh. Looks like you're in the same boat! But Getter-3 and I don't get center stage much, and I'm not going to screw this up!  (Faith!) Baron Ashura! Why are you working with the Gishin? There's no need for you to know... just know that we no longer need them! I will destroy all of Dr. Hell's enemies! First I'll weaken you, then toss you out into deep space! You're hurting the people of Japan! You won't get away with that! It's only a matter of time before this country belongs to Dr. Hell! It is his to do with as he pleases! That's stupid! Besides, by your stupid logic, you're gonna lose, so you might as well just crawl away now! Impertinent little brat!  You jerk! Your big stupid ship is scaring away all the fish! What are you talking about? My dad's a fisherman! I won't let you mess up the ocean!  This world has its own beautiful blue ocean... He's concerned about that in the middle of a battle? You have no right to abuse this shining ocean for your own cowardice! Curse you! I will not let someone from another dimension defeat me! It doesn't matter what dimension or what planet I'm from! I fight for what I believe in!  You hurt all those people, you take hostages... you're the worst of the worst! Silence! I will do anything and use any means in my service of Dr. Hell! I admire your loyalty, so tell your big bad boss... That we will stop him! Insignificant insect! If not for you, Kouji Kabuto would be dead! I'll crush you into flotsam! I can handle underwater combat! A champion has to be ready for anything, anytime, anywhere! King Gainer, let's own this coward!    Jiron! If we get hit underwater, we're in trouble! No problem! We'll hold our breath if we have to! What fools! We'll see who's the fool! You're the one who had to take a hostage! The battlefield is a harsh and unforgiving place. There's no room for good and bad guys. H-he's not as he normally is. But you definitely crossed a line. You attacked bystanders, you took hostages... those are both lower than low. And I hate that I let it happen. So sorry, but this isn't going to be pretty...   Okay, I just gotta point out - all of those attacks connected. None of them were saved out to demo or anything. Salud did take nearly all of this branch of GOONZ to knock down.           That explains it! Ashura was equipped with Super Alloy Z the whole time! (Kouji's also the second one to learn Valor after Kamina, so woo!) Ashura decides that his/her last resort is to ram Mazinger, as if that's worked so far...  But Dr. Hell stops him/her and tells him/her to return to Bardos. S/he's gained valuable data on Mazinger, and that data is too valuable to let Ashura die. So Ashura ejects, leaving the Salud to explode, and escapes.  Boss thought s/he died. Luckily, Kouji's not going to run off after him/her, flying or not; his job is to GOONZ now. And he owes GOONZ thanks for bailing him out. He knows not to lose his cool and be stupid anymore.  Oh, and turn 6, so point!  The gang celebrates with that feast at the Kurogane house, meal courtesy of the Master, of course. And, you know, it's still a bathhouse, right there, so we know what we're doing right after. It's a good time!  But the Getter Team doesn't have the luxury of enjoying it for long. Saotome's called them home to test-drive a new Getter model; they figure the doc wants some insurance, since the Invader attacks haven't let up. Kouji tells them, before they go, about how he fought that Gamia, and they're proud of him, but he still has a ways to go; now that Mazinger can fly, Ryoma's got to show him the ropes of flying super robots. Speaking of the Scrander, where did the landlady go? Sayaka says she saw her talking with her dad...  ...about the origin of the Gamia Q bots. Both of them have examined the remains and concluded the same thing: there have only ever been two people who could have constructed a piece of work like that, and Tsubasa saw one of them die with her own eyes. She'll have to go visit the other one personally: Stroheim Heimlich, in Germany...  Dr. Hell assures Ashura that s/he did nothing wrong; in fact, his suspicions have again been confirmed. The key to Mazinger's power was the Super Alloy Z that both makes up its body and powers its photonic reactor, but now he knows that Juuzou Kabuto didn't use all of his metal on Mazinger. The rest is hidden somewhere, and his new quest is to find it... before the end of the world comes to pass.  Zuul, just projected in without so much as a knock, agrees - the end times are nigh. Zuul is one who has seen the end, and he predicts that Dr. Hell will learn what that means in time if he remains on Bardos. And he has another thing to tease Dr. Hell with: "Black Revelations." Just the word, but it's enough to throw Dr. Hell off balance. And Zuul assures him that he doesn't even know the full meaning of them yet... though he will, and when he does, he and Zuul will be equals.  Ashura is having one of his/her panic attacks at the sight of Emperor Zuul, and as with Mazinger, doesn't clearly remember why. Dr. Hell, meanwhile, has changed tack entirely - he needs to know what the Black Revelations are, and in such pursuit, he is going to the deepest part of the island. Something down there is dangerous enough to make Ashura and Blocken terrified for his life, and theirs, but Dr. Hell is sure that he'll return with a new power, power enough to seize Juuzou's legacy for himself. What he doesn't tell his subordinates is what Juuzou really hid that he's looking for, the Arm of Zeus, and that he has to find it before they rise again...  Tune in next week for Getter. Caphi fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Oct 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 06:16
|
|
|
Black Revelations, huh? Taken in the context of Z1, that could be...very interesting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 06:42
|
|
|
Caphi posted:Meanwhile, back on the Salud...
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
I like how they just used the Dai Gurren to throw the Scrander over, rather than using it's jets.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 10:19
|
|
|
Heh, I'm glad to see Musashi being so self-aware and, yeah, that stage is a bitch with all that water. It sure doesn't help that Ashura is bulky as gently caress with that sub...but that might actually be a good thing as it allows everyone to show off their wonderful lines against him/her.  Banpresto really enjoys harassing Ashura with all kinds of robots, huh?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 10:55
|
|
|
Honestly, at this point, what the hell hasn't Ashura fought? They've squared off against everything from Gundams to Gunbuster.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 11:21
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Honestly, at this point, what the hell hasn't Ashura fought? They've squared off against everything from Gundams to Gunbuster. --Linebarrels of Iron (TV and original manga) --Professional Murder Machine Dann of Thursday (and the rest of the GunXSword cast) --Virtual-On/Fei Yen HD --SD Gundam --Gundam AGE --Wings of Rean --Demonbane (TV and VN versions) --Mazinkaiser SKL --Fafner of the Azure/Heaven and Earth --Gaiking: Legend of Daikyu Maryu (okay, technically Ashura's faced 70s Gaiking already, but still) --Escaflowne --Betterman --Acrobunch --Rahxephon --  )--Shin Jeeg (again, Ashura's faced classic Jeeg, not Loveable Dimwit Kenji and Shin Jeeg) --New Getter Robo and )--Every Eldoran series except RaijinOh (RaijinOh was in GC, where the Mazinkaiser OVA debuted) AradoBalanga fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Oct 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 23:16
|
|
|
AradoBalanga posted:Quite a number of things, mostly due to the fact the following list are from games where Mazinger/Mazinkaiser is post-script (i.e., Ashura's deader than disco), not appearing at all (i.e., SKL), and/or in the game to be functional dead weight (aka Super Robot Wars K). Pretty sure you can face him in J and deploy Zeorymer in said missions
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
Hmmm...actually, if we count Dr. Hell as both his "human" and his Great Marshall form, he's probably fought a more varied group of people than Ashura, especially considering that he's present in many games while Ashura is long dead. Are him and Ashura the most recurring SRW bosses? I can't think of anyone else...
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 23:31
|
|
|
Wait, Escaflowne was in one of these? Could it transform into dragon mode? (And was it impossible to repair?)
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 23:54
|
|
|
Ardeem posted:Wait, Escaflowne was in one of these? Could it transform into dragon mode? (And was it impossible to repair?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NGWx4WrcLg It's not exactly pretty.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 23:55
|
|
|
It's been a year since this thread inspired me to go out and watch Shin Mazinger, and now it's reminding me just how awesome that show was.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Escaflowne was in one, but, uh... Ya know, I wasn't even bothered by the graphic quality since it was a Wonderswan game. What did bother me is seeing Apotheosized Valefor and Mardict as elite mooks piloted by faceless goons...that's just WRONG! 
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 00:09
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Escaflowne was in one, but, uh... I had to turn the sound off, that was some terrible midi work.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 00:18
|
|
|
Ardeem posted:I had to turn the sound off, that was some terrible midi work. I think it's at least partially emulator gently caress-up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 01:07
|
|
|
JamMasterJim posted:Pretty sure you can face him in J and deploy Zeorymer in said missions Though if you're deploying an upgraded Zeorymer the rest of the team could just take a break while the monster cheeses everything alone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 02:54
|
|
|
veekie posted:I like how they just used the Dai Gurren to throw the Scrander over, rather than using it's jets. You never do things the normal/logical way with Dai Gurren around. Sure it would make more sense to fly the Scrander, but throwing it conserves fuel! veekie posted:Though if you're deploying an upgraded Zeorymer the rest of the team could just take a break while the monster cheeses everything alone. Regardless, Zeorymer wrecks all types of poo poo. Cause it's Zeorymer, and that's what it does.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Escaflowne was in one, but, uh... Well, it might sound crappy, but I'm impressed they bothered to at least try and put the music in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2013 13:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 23:54 |
|
|
KDavisJr posted:Regardless, Zeorymer wrecks all types of poo poo. Cause it's Zeorymer, and that's what it does. Is it even that crazy in it's own series? The explosions look like they could do away with a big chunk of Asia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2013 15:33
|
|