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Ron Burgundy posted:Moved into my new house and my projector was too far from the preamp. I needed a cable with enough cores for the solar cell signal (lower output than phono) and the changeover so I just cut the ends of some cat5. I also laid it in parallel with power cables for good measure. Sounds great. What kind of plastic is that?
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Oct 12, 2013 07:36
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 16:11 |
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Not sure. Comedy answer: Oxygen-free house wiring junction.
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Oct 12, 2013 08:34
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Man, just thinking about all the jitter, scrold, and tinth you must be getting from that setup is painful.
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Oct 12, 2013 16:12
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Ron Burgundy posted:Moved into my new house and my projector was too far from the preamp. I needed a cable with enough cores for the solar cell signal (lower output than phono) and the changeover so I just cut the ends of some cat5. I also laid it in parallel with power cables for good measure. Sounds great. Looks fine to me. Reminds me of my car set-up (when I still had a car).
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Oct 12, 2013 16:33
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I can almost see people buying audiophile stereo equipment for their rusted out, two-tone-primer The same people who buy rims and sports mufflers without improving the engine. or brakes. 
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Oct 13, 2013 18:14
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So I started researching DACs and I came across the jitter. loving jitter. From my weekend internet wander it seems like people are well trained in what it is and how to measure it and make pretty pictures of it but no one can really put a finger on if you can actually hear it. Especially if you're just trying to enjoy music and not scrutinize it. Someone on diyhifi made a joke about how the speed of sound is 340m/s so if you're rocking your head back and forth while listening to speakers you'll be introducing as much jitter as a current day DAC. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact that jitter errors aren't just filtered out by everything between the DAC and your brain. Like the drivers in your speakers/headphones and the air between them and your inner ear. Yeah if you put a scope up to the output of the DAC and run some FFTs or other analysis on it you'll see 'stuff'. But that doesn't mean by the time the electrons push the drivers that push air and make sound waves that get into your ears and is processed by your brain that it amounts to anything. I do think its a legitimate technical problem that crosses multiple industries (this is coming from an EE background) and I think a bare minimum effort should be made to reduce it by the DAC makers but it seems like enthusiasts have been picking at the issue so much its way over emphasized to the point where you can't have a normal discussion on the matter. Something like '%2 jitter error is inaudible and since most DACs are this good or better its a non issue for most people'. I hope I'm just reading it wrong though :/ Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 19:12
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Manufacturers have no real desire to fix it in their main-line product, because people can't hear it, and ergo generally don't know about it. The audiophile believes that things can sound different even when it's physically impossible too (see: digital transfer) so of course, if you can measure jitter, no matter how insignificant, they'll have 3000 oddly non-specific adjectives to describe what it sounds like.
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Oct 20, 2013 02:37
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Also loving USB cables sound 'different' but no further investigation as to why. Digital is either correct or incorrect. If different USB cables sound 'louder' or 'warmer' then I'm really curious to know what the gently caress is going on because one or more of those scenarios must have degradation in the signal that doesn't sound like rear end. How does digital signal corruption not sound like rear end? And its even more troubling that some of these people are skeptical too but still 'hear' it. Guh.
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Oct 30, 2013 02:04
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Reading through Audoikarma the other day reminded me that folks really like using a PS1 as a cd player. Saying stuff like "Bet those speakers would sound great hooked up to a Sansui and a PS1". How is that at all convenient to use? Sounds like a nightmare.
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Oct 30, 2013 14:55
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BigFactory posted:Reading through Audoikarma the other day reminded me that folks really like using a PS1 as a cd player. Saying stuff like "Bet those speakers would sound great hooked up to a Sansui and a PS1". How is that at all convenient to use? Sounds like a nightmare. The more obscure and hard-to-use components you have in your system, the better it sounds. Bonus points if they're really expensive as well, but if you can spin some cheap-rear end component as an "overlooked miracle" that the plebes don't know about, that's fine too.
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Oct 30, 2013 15:19
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The PS1 thing is at least partly warranted, since it apparently has a very high quality DAC compared to what's generally being built into consumer devices. Whether that makes an audible difference to standalone players, remains to be debated.
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Oct 30, 2013 15:39
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Combat Pretzel posted:The PS1 thing is at least partly warranted, since it apparently has a very high quality DAC compared to what's generally being built into consumer devices. Whether that makes an audible difference to standalone players, remains to be debated. Even cheap DACs are perfectly fine for anything in the audible range, everything uses one of a couple of standardized chips for DAC duties, and they're all razor-flat from 20hz-20kHz. As far as I've heard, the PS1 even has a relatively severe frequency roll-off at like 16 or 17kHz.
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Oct 30, 2013 15:44
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Are these specs lovely for a $100 DAC+amp that I'm just going to be listening to itunes tracks with? Dynamic Range:90 dB S/N Ratio :98 dB THD+N :0.05%
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Oct 30, 2013 16:08
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Shaocaholica posted:Are these specs lovely for a $100 DAC+amp that I'm just going to be listening to itunes tracks with? It's fine. Just about anything you'll be able to find that isn't from the $2 section of DealExtreme will be more than fine for iTunes tracks or MP3s or whatever.
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Oct 30, 2013 16:12
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Shaocaholica posted:Are these specs lovely for a $100 DAC+amp that I'm just going to be listening to itunes tracks with? What model is it? Those specs don't really say a whole lot.
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Oct 30, 2013 17:38
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KozmoNaut posted:The more obscure and hard-to-use components you have in your system, the better it sounds. Bonus points if they're really expensive as well, but if you can spin some cheap-rear end component as an "overlooked miracle" that the plebes don't know about, that's fine too. I couldn't imagine using a loving L2 button to skip tracks or whatever. It almost makes me want to try it.
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Oct 30, 2013 17:50
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KillHour posted:What model is it? Those specs don't really say a whole lot. Nuforce udac3 $125. Actual use reviews have been positive but people just looking at the spec sheets have been bashing its DR and distortion figures. Its predecessor the udac2 was also bashed for inaccurate specs but actual use reviews still positive. Also according to Nuforce it doesn't have any power filtering on the USB +5V supply where as other DACs in that price range sorta-kinda do. Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 18:21
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Weren't they the guys who insisted their products were made "by ear" only and never actually measured, and it turned out they were actually pretty crap in relation to the price? Or am I thinking of another brand of DACs? E: Here we go: http://nwavguy.blogspot.dk/2011/02/nuforce-udac-2-drama.html Apparently, it was TUNED to measure really bad 
KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 18:36
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KozmoNaut posted:Even cheap DACs are perfectly fine for anything in the audible range, everything uses one of a couple of standardized chips for DAC duties, and they're all razor-flat from 20hz-20kHz. Not 100% true, even at a 'pro' level different DAC/DSP units measure differently in response and phase coherency for the same EQ and filter settings. You can easily test that for yourself with a bit of software like REW, EASERA, SMAART or similar and some simple balanced cables.
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Oct 30, 2013 18:58
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Combat Pretzel posted:The PS1 thing is at least partly warranted, since it apparently has a very high quality DAC compared to what's generally being built into consumer devices. Whether that makes an audible difference to standalone players, remains to be debated. The thing is you could also get a similarly high quality DAC in most CD player equipment that costs similarly to what audiophiles will shell out over one of those first Playstations.
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Oct 30, 2013 19:00
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KozmoNaut posted:Weren't they the guys who insisted their products were made "by ear" only and never actually measured, and it turned out they were actually pretty crap in relation to the price? Dang. I really liked the features and form factor but also that drama was 2011. I gotta find out if they 'fixed' any of it.
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Oct 30, 2013 19:25
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Shaocaholica posted:Nuforce udac3 $125. Actual use reviews have been positive but people just looking at the spec sheets have been bashing its DR and distortion figures. Its predecessor the udac2 was also bashed for inaccurate specs but actual use reviews still positive. I will say, that with my uDAC I had a very annoying bias towards one ear. I would suggest something from Fiio.
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Oct 30, 2013 21:44
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This has probably been posted before, but it deserves a second look. Maybe the greatest troll in the audiophile world. Some people at a trade show take a poxy system worth $700 and put it up against a $12000 system in a blind test, using the same speakers but swapping the speaker cables over. Then they ask a bunch of audiophiles to pick their favourite. As for the results, well I think that each can reach to its own conclussion...  http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
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Oct 31, 2013 09:03
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Waldo P Barnstormer posted:This has probably been posted before, but it deserves a second look. My favorite part was that they had to remove the A/B switch because they felt it would be dismissed by the golden ear types as completely negating the process. Also, fully illustrates the biggest and most important factor in your system is your speakers.
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Oct 31, 2013 12:06
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Wasabi the J posted:My favorite part was that they had to remove the A/B switch because they felt it would be dismissed by the golden ear types as completely negating the process. Also an amp that's beefy enough to power them without being overloaded and frying the tweeters with near-DC. Depends on how loudly you want to play, obviously. E: Actually, starting at the speakers and moving back through the signal chain is probably a really good way to prioritize your outlay on a good stereo. Start with the best speakers you can find and afford, buy active speakers if you can. A good set of active speakers and an MP3 player with lossless audio is both easy and often less expensive than passive speakers and a whole complement of separate components. Secondly the amp, after that the sources. Cables don't matter for poo poo as long as the speaker cables are beefy enough (12AWG is more than plenty for any home system) and the RCA leads aren't horribly broken. Eh, I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but there it is. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 12:56
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If enjoying music involves being constipated, I'm apparently doing it wrong.
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Oct 31, 2013 16:33
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Looking at the front row from left to right it's like each guy is trying to listen (poop) harder than the previous one.
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Oct 31, 2013 16:47
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No, you guys are missing the point. The speakers they used in the test were total crap and were the problem. More expensive speakers would totally sound better with the higher end setup.
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Oct 31, 2013 16:59
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KozmoNaut posted:Cables don't matter for poo poo as long as the speaker cables are beefy enough (12AWG is more than plenty for any home system) and the RCA leads aren't horribly broken. Honest question, is 16 gauge not enough? I think that's what my speaker wire is. I bought a spool of the stuff a decade ago and I've been using it ever since.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:21
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16 gauge is fine for 99% of home use. It only becomes a problem if you are running lengths over 50 feet or pushing more than 100 watts RMS per channel. You can go up to 14, but 12 is absolutely overkill.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:30
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BigFactory posted:Honest question, is 16 gauge not enough? I think that's what my speaker wire is. I bought a spool of the stuff a decade ago and I've been using it ever since. It's more than plenty. I exaggerated a bit, 12AWG and the like are only needed for big home theatre-style setups that move a lot of power. 16AWG is good until you need to get like 500+ watts from one end of a large-ish living room to the other. Even then, 12AWG is overkill. Most normal house wiring here is ~18AWG and a lot of people use that for speaker wire, it works perfectly fine.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:34
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BANME.sh posted:16 gauge is fine for 99% of home use. It only becomes a problem if you are running lengths over 50 feet or pushing more than 100 watts RMS per channel. You can go up to 14, but 12 is absolutely overkill. I've never run more than 6' or 10' lengths, and yeah, not pushing a lot of juice. Good to know, thanks.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:47
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BANME.sh posted:16 gauge is fine for 99% of home use. It only becomes a problem if you are running lengths over 50 feet or pushing more than 100 watts RMS per channel. You can go up to 14, but 12 is absolutely overkill. The only time I really see 12 used in commercial work is in big systems that are pushing hundreds of watts. I actually see a lot of 18 in smaller systems.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:52
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BANME.sh posted:16 gauge is fine for 99% of home use. It only becomes a problem if you are running lengths over 50 feet or pushing more than 100 watts RMS per channel. You can go up to 14, but 12 is absolutely overkill. My amp has 255 wpc rms and the manual says "Standard 18 gauge lamp cord" as a minimum. I think I used 16 or 14 gauge cable anyway since that's what I already had.
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Oct 31, 2013 22:14
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What a strange way to measure the thickness of a cable! I have 4mm core cable on my left speaker, 2.5mm core on the right and 1.5mm core on my 700W RMS sub. Someone mentioned earlier the first place to start with a component system is the speakers. I think that the room is more important. This guy agrees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLVjHfHahg Watch as Mohammed catalogues his descent into madness, and the effect it has had on his family. As his system grows, each different part becomes a surrogate for his family members. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAXn6JkwonA Oh my god this guy is us : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4 A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 23:46
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I haven't seen that particular one, but the eevblog guy is awesome.
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Nov 1, 2013 00:13
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For the record I use 12AWG on my PA setup so anyone using larger on a home setup is a complete idiot.
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Nov 1, 2013 14:34
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I looked up a conversion chart for your moon wires and apparently I'm using just over 6AWG. I am an idiot so that's okay I guess?
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Nov 1, 2013 16:07
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Ron Burgundy posted:Moved into my new house and my projector was too far from the preamp. I needed a cable with enough cores for the solar cell signal (lower output than phono) and the changeover so I just cut the ends of some cat5. I also laid it in parallel with power cables for good measure. Sounds great. This is actually shameful because you wired that up completely wrong, if you'd used a pair per channel it would be completely acceptable since it'd be (in practice) a balanced transmission line which has pretty good rejection of EMI. As is, you're probably getting some of the benefits compared to straight unshielded wire, and if it works don't gently caress with it. If you'd put a noise power source instead of a solar panel you'd probably see more crosstalk.
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Nov 1, 2013 17:37
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I can't imagine how awful the interference at 1.16e-5 Hz must sound.
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Nov 2, 2013 03:48
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