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Bouchacha posted:How complete is CoQ? I see it's still a beta but how much is missing at the moment? CoQ is nothing like the crowds of early access steam games around today that are barely alphas. When they say 'unfinished' it means that after several hours you'll hit a quest that says 'TO BE CONTINUED..' - though in reality it'll take much longer as you rack up dead characters to get there. Honestly, it feels more like beating the game then being cut off (somewhat spoiled by immediately getting a new quest you can't complete). If you make it in deep you'll start to find strictly unfinished stuff (like the Tomb of the Eaters, a future zone, which at the moment is just a fuckload of random caves full of sawbots + worms) or maybe an item that doesn't have a purpose yet. my best advice for starting out is don't explore every nook. Its the nature of randomly generated content that it turns into noise rather then any sort of interesting scenario, and good randomly generated content is more akin to snapping prefab parts together. The main plotline is the latter, the endless caves/jungles/ruins the former. You can quickly get bogged down trying to be a completionist vs a bunch of algorithms generating zones, when you should be pushing on to Golgatha and Bethesa Susa.
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Nov 5, 2013 00:57
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Blackray Jack posted:You can also put shields on them so you can have double the protection while dual wielding to your hearts content. Or put on three shields and one weapon even! I'm pretty sure that you only get the bonus from your "best" shield, and even then only when a shield-block procs (you can increase the chance with shield skills).
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Nov 5, 2013 01:20
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Unormal posted:The new dungeon we're working on is designed to be a reliable, if risky, alternate opening move for True Men to get some early cybernetics. Good to know. Any plans for tinkering recipes for upgrading items? I've found recipes for overcharged or scoped weapons that take the place of the regular version, but being able to tack on those mods to an existing weapon would be really useful. More tinkered armor wouldn't hurt either.
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Nov 5, 2013 01:44
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Few more questions about CoQ. Do multiple sources of light illuminate? Golgotha is really loving hard also. I managed to barely escape but I was getting ruined. I'm in a pretty good position with regards to level/equipment/weapons etc. I just need a place to go and do some poo poo in at this point but I don't really know where to go, and I don't know where the warden in the ape village told me to go to find that other crazy goat village. Also, where can I find some better melee weapons/foot/headgear? I'm getting tired of the carbide.
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Nov 5, 2013 04:09
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In Golgotha I recommend just racing to the bottom as quickly as you can. There's at least one type of swarming enemy that (as far as I know) never stops coming, so even with grenades or esper abilities you're going to get overrun eventually. Also, pay attention to the pattern of the flame and steam bursts; those are absolutely predictable (and a really cool bit of level design.)
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Nov 5, 2013 04:18
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Bob NewSCART posted:Few more questions about CoQ. Grit Gate and goatville can both carry folded carbide and you can sometimes find fullerite on wandering merchants and enemies in the jungle near goatville. You can also get some neat toys with master butchery and tinkering 2 with a little luck. If you don't have a carapace you're going to be disappointed with your body armor options, as they're going to rapidly get heavier for small AV gains. Head/hand/footwear all cap out at steel's 2 av, but there are some interesting 1 AV items you can find or tinker. There's also an always available really neat folded carbide long sword some big bonuses you can buy in goatville for ~$200. I've yet to find a melee weapon I'd 100% for sure call better than it, but I haven't gotten around to trying out vibro and gaslight blades yet. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 04:30
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korora posted:You have to install .NET in wine first and make sure to run it with the '-console' flag. I couldn't get it to work without cd-ing into the game directory first but if I do that it runs fine in wine on Mac. I should note I've only played a very small amount so if there's something that breaks wine later on I wouldn't know. Thanks, that was painless.
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Nov 5, 2013 04:48
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dis astranagant posted:Grit Gate and goatville can both carry folded carbide and you can sometimes find fullerite on wandering merchants and enemies in the jungle near goatville. You can also get some neat toys with master butchery and tinkering 2 with a little luck. If you don't have a carapace you're going to be disappointed with your body armor options, as they're going to rapidly get heavier for small AV gains. Head/hand/footwear all cap out at steel's 2 av, but there are some interesting 1 AV items you can find or tinker. There's also an always available really neat folded carbide long sword some big bonuses you can buy in goatville for ~$200. I've yet to find a melee weapon I'd 100% for sure call better than it, but I haven't gotten around to trying out vibro and gaslight blades yet. Vibro is pretty good for hacking through doors and so on, though it eats up battery charge really fast. Gaslight is pretty unimpressive, especially if you're heavily invested in Strength, since by the time you can actually create one (barring RNG luck), you'll get much better penetration values from one of the high tier materials like fullerite with better damage dice to boot. That may have changed since the last major update, so disregard if it has.
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Nov 5, 2013 04:53
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dis astranagant posted:Grit Gate and goatville can both carry folded carbide and you can sometimes find fullerite on wandering merchants and enemies in the jungle near goatville. You can also get some neat toys with master butchery and tinkering 2 with a little luck. If you don't have a carapace you're going to be disappointed with your body armor options, as they're going to rapidly get heavier for small AV gains. Head/hand/footwear all cap out at steel's 2 av, but there are some interesting 1 AV items you can find or tinker. There's also an always available really neat folded carbide long sword some big bonuses you can buy in goatville for ~$200. I've yet to find a melee weapon I'd 100% for sure call better than it, but I haven't gotten around to trying out vibro and gaslight blades yet. It's also possible to go full on marauder and kill town merchants for their stuff but you have to be able to handle the wardens first, so probably not a smart play if you're at the stage of the game where those swords are an upgrade.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:07
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Yeah, but why do that when being a water merchant not only buffs your mind lasers but also gives you practically inexhaustible amounts of money.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:14
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dis astranagant posted:Yeah, but why do that when being a water merchant not only buffs your mind lasers but also gives you practically inexhaustible amounts of money. On that note, I feel like the other classes need to be brought in line with Water Merchant in some way that isn't numbers-based. Right now, imo, there's no reason to pick a specialized class over water merchant unless you're ignoring the merchants, which while a valid playstyle, is needlessly gimpy. Water Merchants start out with the fewest skill points' worth of free skills (just 200 for Snake Oiler) but they also enhance all other playstyles (either directly for espers or indirectly for everyone else by making gear affordable) so I could pick a Warden, sure, or I could pick Water Merchant, buy gear better than a warden, and pick only the combat skills I want instead of being forced into long blades and shields. I can also wait to pick a specialization, and even if I'm a new player, I can just buy armor and weapons from Tam for a huge boost to starting survival. Conversely, even though other classes could just buy Snake Oiler, they'd have to first spend 100 skill points on Intimidate to get to the 200 point Snake Oiler, and since they're a mutant, that means eating up at least 4 levels' worth of skill points, if not more with low int. I wish the other classes came with more skills or each had a special effect (the way Water Merchant and Nomad do) or maybe just indirectly buff them all and indirectly nerf Water Merchant by making trading less punch-self-in-dick hard without 20+ ego (Snake Oiler is just +4 ego for the purposes of trading, so my usual start is effectively 24 ego). Even then, I'd probably still go Water Merchant because it's incredibly difficult to balance essentially starting with some kind of steel or carbide weapon from Tam along with the very real possibility of starting with a carbine, and if you have no carapace it means a good chance of starting with ring or chain mail, too. I think class specialties are the only way to work around that, like maybe Marauders have increased chance of dismember and butchery that no other class can get, Gunslingers can make 50-100 slugs from a single piece of scrap metal (instead of the normal FIVE bullets per scrap using tinkering which is totally worthless) so that they can use guns before Grit Gate which most others can't due to the scarcity of ammo (barring RNG/shop scumming, of course!) or just something that's actually sacrificed by not picking a specialized class, because right now Water Merchant essentially trumps the other classes' starting kits as well as providing a direct late-game benefit (the massive % adjustment to cost). Granted I've still never beaten Golgotha and still wander the overmap and explore Omon Porch and stuff, so, yeah. Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 14:02
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Truthfully, money really isn't that big of an issue in this game if you know what you're doing. It's really easy to start saving up those nickels and dimes and when you start finding more expensive things to sell the money can really start rolling in. Seems to me that water merchant isn't as powerful as people make it out to be. It's been a year or two since I last played however so there might be something I'm overlooking.
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Nov 5, 2013 14:15
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By the time you finish grinding out to level 10 you have enough money laying around to buy just about anything you might want, including several midrange tinkering recipes even without hoovering up every bronze piece of crap you find. You don't just have one good item you scrimped and saved for, you have everything that looked remotely interesting. Walk out of grit gate with a carbine AND a combat shotgun AND sometimes an eigenrifle AND Polluxus AND ulnar stimulators/the leg equivalent, AND all your mental mutations are near max level despite sinking all your points in carapace and another physical mutation you picked up for the hell of it. It enables you to afford being all the ludicrous mixed build you want to be.
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Nov 5, 2013 14:58
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dis astranagant posted:By the time you finish grinding out to level 10 you have enough money laying around to buy just about anything you might want, including several midrange tinkering recipes even without hoovering up every bronze piece of crap you find. You don't just have one good item you scrimped and saved for, you have everything that looked remotely interesting. Walk out of grit gate with a carbine AND a combat shotgun AND sometimes an eigenrifle AND Polluxus AND ulnar stimulators/the leg equivalent, AND all your mental mutations are near max level despite sinking all your points in carapace and another physical mutation you picked up for the hell of it. It enables you to afford being all the ludicrous mixed build you want to be. Yeah, this, and I don't think the answer is to nerf Water Merchant but to make the other classes each have something that's worth the trade off, even though nerfing water merchant via reducing starting water + making trading less super-awesome-epic-good would probably be the easiest thing to do. Apostle: No limit to proselytize. Have the town of Joppa follow you around, sure. Arconaut: Scavenger is guaranteed to proc. I'd say have it be a higher chance, but that would still suck, and even guaranteed scavenger is honestly trashy as hell, no pun intended. Greybeard: Active ability to go immortal for X number of turns on a huge cooldown. I dunno, it's supposed to be the tanky archetype. Gunslinger: Starts with the ability to make 50-100 slugs from a bit of scrap metal, both as a post-disassemble bit or using an item that has a scrap metal bit in it so it doesn't require tinker + disassemble necessarily. Marauder: Greatly increased chance of dismember and butchery. Pilgrim: I don't even know. Nomad: Maybe just give him Calloused. That would make him a SUPER tanky starting archetype sans weapon skills. Scholar: This is hard 
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Nov 5, 2013 15:32
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dis astranagant posted:By the time you finish grinding out to level 10 you have enough money laying around to buy just about anything you might want, including several midrange tinkering recipes even without hoovering up every bronze piece of crap you find. You don't just have one good item you scrimped and saved for, you have everything that looked remotely interesting. Walk out of grit gate with a carbine AND a combat shotgun AND sometimes an eigenrifle AND Polluxus AND ulnar stimulators/the leg equivalent, AND all your mental mutations are near max level despite sinking all your points in carapace and another physical mutation you picked up for the hell of it. It enables you to afford being all the ludicrous mixed build you want to be. Svenlainard isn't supposed to sell Polluxus, but apparently he occasionally judges his lead slug or crayon box to be more valuable.
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Nov 5, 2013 16:46
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Greybeard just makes me sad. Sure, give the only kit in the game that starts with cudgel skills a penalty to its primary stat. 
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Nov 5, 2013 18:28
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hand of luke posted:Svenlainard isn't supposed to sell Polluxus, but apparently he occasionally judges his lead slug or crayon box to be more valuable. Sven also never restocks and for being such a pro hunter, tends to stock piddly garbage like an albino ape fur hat and cloak. I have never reached Goatsville without having something vastly better for each slot. Sven needs to carry something more... uh... hunterly? and restock. I also wish there was a rifle-soldier equivalent to Gunslinger that wasn't Warden. Also-also, Snake Oiler requires *400* skillpoints for non-water merchants; I forgot Persuasion costs 200, not 100. I really wish that the current price multiplier you got at 16 ego with no snake oiler was the minimum for buying/selling (or at least BUYING) regardless of if you had 16 or 10 Ego, since Ego below 16 still negatively impacts mental powers anyway, and at least limiting it to impacting selling below 16 means that non-water merchants can at least shop more reasonably. Or maybe Water Merchant really is just broken stupid-strong as a background and it does need to be nerfed, because it's honestly really hard to intentionally gimp my equipment choices by playing a non-water merchant. I'd rather have more incentive to play the other classes than Water Merchant's style be nerfed, though. Giving every fighter class a free level of ambidexterity would go a long way, imo, with some having level 2, because that's a huge boost to early game fighting and takes a while to save up skill points for. It would be a nice compliment to Water Merchant's early game mad-cash gear boost. I know stealth isn't implemented yet, but that's more what I think about when I think as an Arconaut speciality or even a Greybeard (yeah he's tanky now, but I could see an old guy hiding out in the shadows, waiting to crack some knees when the moment presents itself). Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 18:44
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He's awful drat proud of his lovely monkey parts, too. Often more so than his sword. I think part of what makes water merchant feel so strong is how good their starting inventory is. You're guaranteed to have a couple grenades to give Argyve to hit level 2 instantly, as well as $250 cash, an often iron or steel weapon and maybe another $10-50 in trade goods. The other ego based class starts with gently caress all and $64. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 18:54
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dis astranagant posted:I think part of what makes water merchant feel so strong is how good their starting inventory is. You're guaranteed to have a couple grenades to give Argyve to hit level 2 instantly, as well as $250 cash, an often iron or steel weapon and maybe another $10-50 in trade goods. The other ego based class starts with gently caress all and $64. Water merchants are a good class for the reasons you described, but beyond that early-game boost don't have a significant advantage over other classes, in my opinion. The available EQ that you can upgrade to at Tam is rarely better than what you'd find in the first 4 levels of Red Rock, and even a rare, starting piece of carbide will often be matched by something found around character levels 7-10. Further, in my experience, Snake Oiler tends to be nice on low-mid ego charaters who would otherwise have an annoying experience with merchants, but characters with high egos will tend to have more than enough in the way of trade goods to buy whatever they'd like by the middle-game, anyway. For the early game, I'd prefer a character who's already pathed somewhat down a given skilltree or playstyle that I'm aiming for for that game. Warden, maurauder, and greybeard are amazing for this reason, as you'll often start to hit your really powerful weapon skills by about level 6 (preferable if you plan on doing the underground river return to Joppa from Redrock). Don't overlook being super-specialized early on. Edit: Greybeard is my favorite starting class. Go with double-muscled and your favorite mental mutations, pump cudgels, be a curmudgeon and berate everything in sight. Maelephant fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 19:16
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dis astranagant posted:By the time you finish grinding out to level 10 you have enough money laying around to buy just about anything you might want, including several midrange tinkering recipes even without hoovering up every bronze piece of crap you find. You don't just have one good item you scrimped and saved for, you have everything that looked remotely interesting. Walk out of grit gate with a carbine AND a combat shotgun AND sometimes an eigenrifle AND Polluxus AND ulnar stimulators/the leg equivalent, AND all your mental mutations are near max level despite sinking all your points in carapace and another physical mutation you picked up for the hell of it. It enables you to afford being all the ludicrous mixed build you want to be. How? The grit gate merchant has poo poo items most of the times I've found him which has been a couple now.
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Nov 6, 2013 01:27
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The big draw at Grit Gate isn't the merchant at the door (though he is a great source of ammo and usually has some folded carbide loot), it's digging/disintegrating the wall next to him to get access to another tinkerer and probably some decent recipes. Being able to buy out everything with bits lets you not give a gently caress how much you blow recharging chem cells and can make loading your own ammo not a complete waste of time in a pinch (or make the 12 gauge worth using since none of the shops seem to sell ammo for it). Everyone loves the carbine but once you get an eigenrifle and enough A bits to never really have to worry about power usage you're pretty much unstoppable.
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Nov 6, 2013 02:49
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I drew my esper :-D COMEDY OPTION
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Nov 6, 2013 05:45
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Add a rest til all cooldowns are over button please. Hahahaha this run I don't need to give a drat about grit gate because there's 2 wandering merchants in the first canyon north of joppa and they both have tons of kick rear end artifacts that even my ridiculous water merchant rear end can't afford. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 05:48
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_jink posted:I drew my esper :-D This is really cool.
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Nov 6, 2013 05:56
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_jink posted:I drew my esper :-D Awesome. Also loving the comedy option, heh.
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Nov 6, 2013 06:09
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For those interested in a melee mutant do you take carapace despite not being able to make the most of tightening it or go with quills?
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Nov 6, 2013 06:36
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okay so I'm jsut having trouble installing COQ could someone point to a forum post or just a download link?
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Nov 6, 2013 07:06
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andrew smash posted:For those interested in a melee mutant do you take carapace despite not being able to make the most of tightening it or go with quills? What I like to do is take carapace, sunder mind(or regeneration), night vision, ravenous, and the coup de grace, flaming hands. This is as a melee by the way. What this allows me to do is pump melee skills/strength(I usually go water merchant as well for the huge early game advantage) while being able to one shot almost anything with ranged nukes if something does get threatening. Best of both worlds for me.
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Nov 6, 2013 14:13
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_jink posted:I drew my esper :-D This rules, comedy option also rules. Good show.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:17
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_jink posted:I drew my esper :-D That's very cool. Does your character really have that khopesh?
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Nov 6, 2013 16:26
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So where is the goatman village that the warden in the ape village tells you to go find? I'm having trouble finding it on the world map.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:53
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Bob NewSCART posted:So where is the goatman village that the warden in the ape village tells you to go find? I'm having trouble finding it on the world map. you won't find it on the world map, iirc the way to find it is to go a screen or two north of apetown and follow the river east
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Nov 6, 2013 17:03
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andrew smash posted:you won't find it on the world map, iirc the way to find it is to go a screen or two north of apetown and follow the river east Yeah, if you go immediately north of Goatsville/Apetown/Kyauakakaka, follow that river east. It's a ways, and when you find the burned up village with corpses and nothing but the note, keep following the river.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:05
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How do you get to be good at these games? I have been playing nethack since 1999, still haven't gotten an ascension, and last year I did a ragequit when I got hit with a wand of death by a gnome while I was trying on an un-cursed amulet (stupidly removing my source of reflection). This was followed up by a guy I introduced it to beating it in a week... I feel like I just don't learn from my mistakes. I picked up dungeons of dredmor, and I am struggling not to dial back the difficulty or turn off permadeath. I want the Left for Dred achievement, but at the same time, I don't want to be playing this game for the next ten years. I've been listening to roguelike radio for some time, and the best advice I have gotten from it is don't fall for the hero trap. Make like Sir Robin and bravely run away. Be a sneaky devious bastard and leverage every unfair advantage that you have. Are there any other attitude tips out there? Maybe I should just go back to Nethack. At least I know not to engage in melee with a minotaur.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:48
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keyvin posted:How do you get to be good at these games? I have been playing nethack since 1999, still haven't gotten an ascension, and last year I did a ragequit when I got hit with a wand of death by a gnome while I was trying on an un-cursed amulet (stupidly removing my source of reflection). This was followed up by a guy I introduced it to beating it in a week... i've beaten lots of roguelikes and never gotten past the castle in nethack, nethack is a stupid game and you should play something better.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:50
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Yeah, I'm a nethack hater too. Try DCSS online and see how other people play the game. It took me 400 deaths before I won on DCSS but that was my first roguelike. I can win a lot more consistently now.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:56
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Yeah if you like the feel of nethack but are frustrated by dumb spoilery stuff, just play Crawl. It has an actual coherent design principles as opposed to "everything we thought of and then some.". Of course if your just want to do random things like polymorph into a xorn so you can eat amulets for intrinsics, nethack is still your game.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:08
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Aside from "run away sooner, rather than later," the bit of advice that helped me the most was "use your consumables." In Final Fantasy you stockpile 99 elixirs because what if you need them later??? but here you should use everything you find as soon as it seems like it might help. If you die, die penniless, having drunk every potion and read every scroll you ever owned. The third most useful was "never fight more than one enemy at once (unless they're trivially easy)." If you feel like you have to fight both of these nasty guys at once, you should have been running away 5 turns ago.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:21
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I've played ADOM, Crawl, Qud, Dredmor, and ToME for anywhere from 2-4 years each, and beat none of them. I've only ever beaten Roguelike-likes; FTL, Rogue Legacy, and uh... I think that's it. They're hard, especially for me since I try to do stupid poo poo for no reason like, "This is my last health potion. Sure, I could use it and safely beat this monster, since I've spent 2-10+ hours on this character and I've never gotten this far. Eh, screw it, I'm sure I can get the final hit I need before I die." *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* "One more try, then I'll use that potion." *whiff* *dies* "gently caress." Sometimes I just do dumb poo poo, like I was fighting a Slumberling in Qud (bigass monsters worth a lot of exp but they literally fall asleep in combat) and I was kiting it around, but I forgot to stay within the sweetspot that lets me move away from them without getting far enough away to charge. Then I moved one square too far, it charged me, and also landed TWO hits instead of one, one of which was a crit. Sure, it was 'RNG' but it was really me making dumb decisions to get to that point (e.g. kiting a slumberling instead of shooting it dead or just walking away while it slept).
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Nov 6, 2013 18:41
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S.T.C.A. posted:I've played ADOM, Crawl, Qud, Dredmor, and ToME for anywhere from 2-4 years each, and beat none of them. I've only ever beaten Roguelike-likes; FTL, Rogue Legacy, and uh... I think that's it. Same stupid poo poo here. I don't know how to stop being bad at risk vs. reward. Its why I have never taken up gambling.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:52
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