Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

lllllllllllllllllll posted:

I was hoping to find a reason not to spend money on Desktop Dungeons here but it seems like this needs to be bought.

It seriously does, the amount of work those guys put in over the past 2 years is very much on display, and it's awesome that they didn't release the Beta a year ago just to get it out there but instead made absolutely sure the game they wanted is the one that got released. They even offered to give my money back when I expressed a very mild concern about its release date. I wasn't mad at all and dude was straight up "If you feel like it's taking too long, we can give you a refund no prob".

They're a very cool bunch of developers, now that DD is out the door I really can't wait for their next project.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Crimbo Hardstyle
Apr 23, 2006

HISS
Risk of Rain, which I posted about back on the first page, is out on Steam now. It's a pretty huge step up from the beta. Tons of stuff to unlock, an actual ending, and there are supposed to be more content updates in the future.

spider wisdom
Nov 4, 2011

og data bandit

doctorfrog posted:

  • haven't broke 10000 gold on Brogue


Is this even possible?! :monocle:

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

TheMightyCheese posted:

Risk of Rain, which I posted about back on the first page, is out on Steam now. It's a pretty huge step up from the beta. Tons of stuff to unlock, an actual ending, and there are supposed to be more content updates in the future.

Why are there two things to buy? "Buy Risk of Rain Steam Store and Retail Key" vs "Buy Risk of Rain" seem like the same thing, but the former costs $10 while the latter costs $30. This game's beta was cool though so I'll probably buy it.

Crimbo Hardstyle
Apr 23, 2006

HISS
As far as I can tell, the $30 option is a 25% off four pack that isn't labelled properly.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
I love PRIME so much. I played as a ninja who ended up getting an evil sword accidentally grafted to his hand (oops) and survived for quite some time until I somehow got radiation poisoning and slowly died.

It's everything I wanted from a Roguelike. Lots of shooty/stabby, easy to get into (thank god for the keyboard reference), sci fi, and lots of randomness to explore. I am awful as an alien, for example.

MPLS to NOLA
Aug 14, 2010

i gotta little trigger
twitchin in my brain
and when that doesn't start
there's murder in my heart
Desktop Dungeons can be launched through steam, via browser or right from the exe, independent of steam. Cloud storage if you provide an email address.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

MPLS to NOLA posted:

Desktop Dungeons can be launched through steam, via browser or right from the exe, independent of steam. Cloud storage if you provide an email address.

Yeah, the ability to play offline is the only thing that I hated about (not being able to do in) the Beta. I quit playing around 6 months ago, partly because I was burnt out, partly because I knew they were changing things so radically that the finished game would be much better and more balanced (and it totally is), and partly because I hated having to maintain a WiFi connection to even play it at all!

Darval
Nov 20, 2007

Shiny.
Been playing some CoQ again recently. A few questions I can't find answers for anywhere though. Playing a True Man Tinker, you always start with the Telescopic Monocle, does it do anything at all or is it just something to sell?

Also, was making my way along the river back to Joppa from Red Rock, and I found what appeared to be a dead miner. He had a miners's helm that provides a bit of light, some food, some parchment with what appears to be flavor text, and a sweet negative weight sphere. I was a bit excited to see he had this though:



But I can't get it to work, not even if I equip it and try to attack the walls. Anyone know if it's just vendor stuff?

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
Is that guy guaranteed to spawn? I feel like I can only find him half the time or so.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...

Darval posted:

Been playing some CoQ again recently. A few questions I can't find answers for anywhere though. Playing a True Man Tinker, you always start with the Telescopic Monocle, does it do anything at all or is it just something to sell?

Also, was making my way along the river back to Joppa from Red Rock, and I found what appeared to be a dead miner. He had a miners's helm that provides a bit of light, some food, some parchment with what appears to be flavor text, and a sweet negative weight sphere. I was a bit excited to see he had this though:



But I can't get it to work, not even if I equip it and try to attack the walls. Anyone know if it's just vendor stuff?

It works if you attack the walls with it equipped, it's just really poo poo at the job. If you have a spare skulk injector or are playing a mutant with claws/a power that can destroy walls there is no reason to keep it vs. using either of those when you want to break some walls.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Just take disintegration if you want to bust through walls. Even a single point will destroy the hardest ones and it gives you a nice aoe panic button if you keep investing in it.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Bob NewSCART posted:

Sil comes recommended among goons? I just read about it and it seems kind of neat. Could anyone give some beginner tips(I know I saw people discussing it a few pages ago)

Sil is seriously really really good and is probably my favorite roguelike right now.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
I tried Sil a little, and it's probably just that I'm terrible, but I'm really not impressed. I get 50 or 100 feet down, accumulate maybe two potions, then run into something faster than I am or a pack of orcs that surround me and die.

How are you supposed to deal with high-level threats when there are barely any useful consumables?

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
Desktop Dungeons is just so good. I have nothing to add. Buy it.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

Strudel Man posted:

I tried Sil a little, and it's probably just that I'm terrible, but I'm really not impressed. I get 50 or 100 feet down, accumulate maybe two potions, then run into something faster than I am or a pack of orcs that surround me and die.

How are you supposed to deal with high-level threats when there are barely any useful consumables?

Don't let yourself get surrounded? Make sure you have lots of points in melee and evasion? Make yourself some armour?

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:

Don't let yourself get surrounded? Make sure you have lots of points in melee and evasion? Make yourself some armour?
Yeah, I don't know. The last time was with a dwarf, and I had made myself a set of the heaviest normal armor possible, with a bunch of points invested into melee. Then I ran into a sword spider and got thoroughly clobbered. Tried to run away once he got me down to a third of my life, but I only got about five steps before being finished off.

I've never been very good at roguelikes, though.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

The races are listed in order of how good they are, the Noldor are WAY more powerful than the others.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Strudel Man posted:

Yeah, I don't know. The last time was with a dwarf, and I had made myself a set of the heaviest normal armor possible, with a bunch of points invested into melee. Then I ran into a sword spider and got thoroughly clobbered. Tried to run away once he got me down to a third of my life, but I only got about five steps before being finished off.

I've never been very good at roguelikes, though.

Playing a dwarf in Sil is like playing an Ogre in crawl, it's a challenge class. Just play Noldor until you win/are extremely comfortable with the game. You can't run from sword spiders because they're faster than you and you should probably concentrate more on reducing your dodge penalty than from increasing your armor. For the first ~600 feet you'll probably have about 30-40 hp so taking any damage is dangerous.

e: Spiders are real dumb though, if you get out of LOS for even a single turn they'll stop chasing you so depending on the layout of the level you can easily ditch them.

..btt
Mar 26, 2008
Also, Sil is not like other roguelikes. Killing enemies is not going to be your largest source of experience. In fact, it's entirely possible to win without ever fighting anything (which is technically the canon way to win). Building a character around light armour and stealth is quite viable, and might teach you how to run away a little better than putting on heavy armour and mashing your face on enemies. Get out of that crawl / nethack mindset and you'll get much further.

Game is still hard as balls though.

EvilMike
Dec 6, 2004

Strudel Man posted:

I tried Sil a little, and it's probably just that I'm terrible, but I'm really not impressed. I get 50 or 100 feet down, accumulate maybe two potions, then run into something faster than I am or a pack of orcs that surround me and die.

How are you supposed to deal with high-level threats when there are barely any useful consumables?

It's not a lack of consumables that killed you, it was getting surrounded. The game puts MASSIVE penalties on your evasion if you are fighting while surrounded. And there's no way to teleport in this game. So, once you get into a bad situation, there's a very high chance that you'll die.

What offsets this is that the game makes it much easier than other games to just avoid combat. Stealth is super useful even at low skill, and at high skill its like being invisible all the time. Also, a lot of pack enemies tend to have low will scores, so if you take song of elbereth (for example) you can simply scare away packs of orcs. Most of the exp in this game doesn't even come from fighting, so you're pretty much rewarded for avoiding combat in situations like this.

Sargeant Biffalot
Nov 24, 2006
Yeah one of the best thing about Sil is the exp. system. It makes it feel way less gamey than other roguelikes - so far I've found if you only kill enemies when you absolutely have to you'll still get the max xp. possible from their type.

If it had Brogue's interface, environmental features and fire mechanics it would basically be the perfect roguelike.

And yeah for your first few runs go Noldor archer with song of Elbereth and high stealth, aim for Lore-Keeper as soon as possible, cursed items are a royal pain since there are fewer methods of removal/stats regen

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Strudel Man posted:

I tried Sil a little, and it's probably just that I'm terrible, but I'm really not impressed. I get 50 or 100 feet down, accumulate maybe two potions, then run into something faster than I am or a pack of orcs that surround me and die.

How are you supposed to deal with high-level threats when there are barely any useful consumables?

Step 1: Read the drat manual. It's not very long, goes over practically every mechanic, and explains what Sil is about. Which includes that Sil is about tactical meele combat, and getting surrounded is Very, Very, Bad™. Fight in corridors, and be aware that the biggest stick/armour is not always the best.

Step 2: debo is a much better player than we are. So when he gives advice on a good newbie build one should obey it religiously.

Step 3: No seriously, LISTEN TO DEBO, and raise meele/evasion to 10 asap. Shopping for shiny skills ruins your close combat prowess.

Step 4: Die a lot. Sil is evil awesome in how fast it can WILL kill you when you gently caress up.

Serephina fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Nov 9, 2013

Space Bat
Apr 17, 2009

hold it now hold it now hold it right there
you wouldn't drop, couldn't drop diddy, you wouldn't dare
Yeah, learning to pick your battles is key. I actually play a fighter, both as noldor and as an edain of hador, but you still need to know when to run. Never fight orcs unless you are literally unable to avoid them (trapped with low perception, for example) until you get yourself some armor. Avoid orc archers until you have a decent base armor score (not sure how much, but I find once I have a full kit of shield/chest armor/boots/gloves/helm their arrows tend to do nothing). Spiders are incredibly dangerous, especially for a new character. They're fast and hit hard, so only engage if you have to or if you're feeling confident. As people have said, avoid being surrounded. It also helps to know how some enemies think- for example orcs and most humanoid enemies will tend to hide at the end of 1 square tunnels rather then chase after you, or will try and send a few guys around to flank you, so if you run into a tunnel you can get a breather. However, if you fall below something like half health they'll starting getting aggressive and chase you down regardless. Some enemies, like wolves will chase you regardless until they take too much damage. Learning how enemies react in certain situations can be important, especially if you're playing a fighter.

Also there ARE consumables that heal you. If you find "murky brown potions" those are orc liquor, which heal something like 10 HP on average but these stun you. Stun lowers all skills by 1, and it stacks, so be careful. There are also herbs of healing but don't rely on finding any.

As was mentioned earlier, continue dumping EXP into your two or three primary skills by pressing '@' and then 'i'. Fighter? Keep increasing Melee and evasion. Stealth? Evasion and Stealth. Once you get a better hang of the game you can diversify, for example- are invisible enemies annoying you? Grab some perception. Have plenty of grace and want some good buffs or regen? Try putting to points into song.

One last thing, if you find a [special] weapon keep an eye on it in your inventory if it doesn't auto ID. There are a couple brands a weapon can have, like Doriath or Gondolin (and what that starts with an N I can never remember) which do increased damage to certain enemies, and much like Sting glow blue when they're near enemies they harm (in your hand or in your inventory). Knowing you have a long sword of Doriath to whip out when you run into wargs or a sword spider is really useful, as just getting hit might cause them to flee.

Edwhirl
Jul 27, 2007

Cats are the best.
I like Sil, but I really, really wish that it would start you with a bow. Since, y'know, you can start with archery *skill*. Or, at least, generate them more than once per ten floors. To clarify, I like playing a stealthy archer 'cause it's fun. I just never seem to find bows.

Edwhirl fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 9, 2013

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!
Like other people have said combat is way less useful as a mechanic for progression than it is in your typical roguelike. If you clear out the 50' and 100' floors completely you will very often not be getting any experience for kills on common things like orcs or wolves by about halfway through. Pick your fights, escape from enemies you're not interested in fighting before you get tangled up in a brawl with them. Above all don't be afraid to dive a little, there's no point in sticking around in shallow floors where monsters don't give any exp. Try to keep ahead of the depth clock so you can spend more time in the 750' and below floors where there are vaults all over the place with monsters worth killing and artifacts worth fighting for.

Play like you're an elf who's snuck into an evil fortress of an evil god alone with nothing but a few torches, you're not interested in murdering every last thing in here, you just want to get your job done and get out.

Edwhirl posted:

I like Sil, but I really, really wish that it would start you with a bow. Since, y'know, you can start with archery *skill*. Or, at least, generate them more than once per ten floors.

You can drop 300 exp into smithing and be guaranteed to get a bow and 50 arrows at the 100' forge but I prefer to just reroll if I haven't found a bow on an archer by ~250'.

Edwhirl
Jul 27, 2007

Cats are the best.

uPen posted:

Useful advice

Aha, thanks. I knew there was something I wasn't getting here.

Is there some way to increase your health pool? Or is the 40-some you start with pretty much it?

As a tip to anyone else starting (and trying stealth): Take a turn to close every door behind you. If a patrol is coming, you can tell their path by what doors they open.

Edwhirl fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 9, 2013

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!
You're stuck with that for most of the game, later on you'll find artifacts that increase con and you can get 1 extra point from Will which is useful to dump a lot of points into anyways if you're a melee guy. You can also forge some +con gear but since forging con drains con you won't actually gain HP until you find a con potion to restore the drained stats.

..btt
Mar 26, 2008
There are some ways to increase your constitution, but they are very rare, so you're pretty much expected to deal with a small health pool.

Tempora Mutantur
Feb 22, 2005

Qud: In an effort to play fewer water merchants, I rolled a double-muscled carapace regeneration mutant Arconaut. Figured I'd go Axes with Short Blade offhand, ended up finding a higher-level dromad merchant two squares north of Joppa with a Fullerite Two-Handed Maul at level 7 or 8, sold everything I could, bought it, sunk all my saved skills into Cudgels instead (I only had the base Short Blades and Axes at that point since I build non-specialized skills and Rifles early in the event of a find like this).

I gotta admit, this character has been more fun than a Water Merchant melee build. While I'm boned if something faster than me finds me while Sprint is on cd (haven't actually had to sprint yet, level 14 and at Grit Gate, killing Equimaxen for fun and levels before I go through Goatsville) I've got a really high strength from Double-Muscled and started with extra Agi instead of Int; I got Jump and Juke, which I haven't *had* to use yet, but are definitely awesome for navigating fights while slow as hell. I'm really curious how the jungle is going to treat me since I won't be running very often. I also still only have a desert rifle, haven't seen a carbine or better yet.

Crushing the gently caress out of things is awesome, though. I can sink all my points into Cudgels, and I should have 29 str by 18 so I can take the double-damage with Cudgels passive; the jungle should get me there, assuming I don't bite it after forgetting I'm super slow against a tribe of goatmen with a powerful shaman or something. I really wish I had Mental Mirror instead of Night Vision + Sense Psychic, but I wouldn't be able to use this maul without Night Vision since I have no reliable light that's hands-free anyway. I also have a mound of tinkering items should I somehow survive to 36 or whatever level will give me enough passive int gains to take Expert Disassemble.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
God drat. I'm stuck in PRIME... I can generally pick my battles fine, until a facehugger comes out. It's always a death sentence, just waiting until something pops out of my chest. Anyone find a way to abort the drat little thing?

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!
For all the people having trouble with Sil, the best answer is to just be really loving lucky.



This is on a stealthy archer that just stepped onto floor 150'. :psyduck:

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.

After I feel on parity with Spelunky, I'm going back to trying to topple Brogue. After that, I'm going after DoomRL, which I have really no excuse not to be playing right now except that I already play too many video games. Then, I'm doing Sil. By that time, maybe it will be even better. I never played any of the *bands because they seemed like boring slogs, but this looks like a very special slog indeed.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

SquadronROE posted:

God drat. I'm stuck in PRIME... I can generally pick my battles fine, until a facehugger comes out. It's always a death sentence, just waiting until something pops out of my chest. Anyone find a way to abort the drat little thing?

I decided to be dumb and drink an unidentified canister, and then the alien inside me froze to death... So there's something you can drink to abort it, but I have no idea what it is.

Darval
Nov 20, 2007

Shiny.
I read earlier in the thread somewhere that you could leave stuff you don't want to lug around on the floor in Joppa or the Grit Gate. Not wanting all my valuble stuff to just lie on the floor, I thought I'd be clever and stash it in one of the village chests I'd pillaged in Joppa. I had at least 500 drams of water, and around 800 drams worth of trade goods. It was everything I'd saved up until then.

Turns out, those restock sometimes. And wipe whatever they have in them. :suicide:

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul

Darval posted:

I read earlier in the thread somewhere that you could leave stuff you don't want to lug around on the floor in Joppa or the Grit Gate. Not wanting all my valuble stuff to just lie on the floor, I thought I'd be clever and stash it in one of the village chests I'd pillaged in Joppa. I had at least 500 drams of water, and around 800 drams worth of trade goods. It was everything I'd saved up until then.

Turns out, those restock sometimes. And wipe whatever they have in them. :suicide:

Think of it as though when that nameless watervine farmer accidentally knocked the lid off of his dusty old chest he found it and then blew it all in the best night of his bleak mutated peasant life.

One who is Rad
Mar 30, 2010

SquadronROE posted:

God drat. I'm stuck in PRIME... I can generally pick my battles fine, until a facehugger comes out. It's always a death sentence, just waiting until something pops out of my chest. Anyone find a way to abort the drat little thing?

Drinking just about anything you'd expect to kill a baby will kill it. Napalm, acid, universal solvent... If you don't have anything like that on hand, you can just start drinking out of radioactive vats and you'll eventually drink something that will get it.

One thing to note is that undamaged aliens will not actually attack you while you're impregnated with a facehugger, but it's such a risky move you'll probably never use it.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

Darval posted:

I read earlier in the thread somewhere that you could leave stuff you don't want to lug around on the floor in Joppa or the Grit Gate. Not wanting all my valuble stuff to just lie on the floor, I thought I'd be clever and stash it in one of the village chests I'd pillaged in Joppa. I had at least 500 drams of water, and around 800 drams worth of trade goods. It was everything I'd saved up until then.

Turns out, those restock sometimes. And wipe whatever they have in them. :suicide:

If you really want to use a chest, you can just take one of the randomly-generated ones that you'll find while dungeon diving. They're not too heavy (maybe 10-20 pounds), so you can just pick up the first chest you see and lug it back to town.

Although really, putting a lot of items inside a chest is way more of a pain than just dropping them all, so it's easier to just dump all your loot on the ground.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...

Personally I like to drop all my items next to traders, that way I can be hilariously overburdened with trade goods and water that I'd otherwise have to sell or carry piecemeal. Generally that's probably better for Grit Gate than Joppa but I've had a wandering trader stick around in the same place for a while who had very expensive and handy toys in stock so I liked doing that sort of thing for him when possible.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


broguetalk: Jesus christ, having lots of allies and stepping on a confusion trap is a clusterfuck.

Also I died on level 23 with a huge band of fuckyou allies because I thought I could solo a tentacle horror. It had about 5hp left and was on fire when it killed me. Of course I had plenty of escape items too plus a health charm I didn't use because of course not. These games are great at showcasing human stupidity.

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Nov 10, 2013

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply