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Your best bet for a vehicle that holds value is something old enough to be pretty much done depreciating. So like a ten year old Toyota.
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Nov 7, 2013 02:36
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The Toyota Tacoma doesn't really lose value. All cars are by nature depreciating assets unless they are incredibly rare and desirable or have a cult following.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:06
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I think we may all be misinterpreting what I mean by holds value. The only useful definition of value retention is a relative one. I'm not asking for everyone to identify a car that will keep the exact value that I paid for it down to two decimal places. I'm merely looking for cars that hold value relative to others. By definition, 50% of cars have above average value retention. Thus, it might be most useful to consider some subset of these. I don't know the distribution, so I guess I'm hoping that those who are more informed might be able to state what this distribution looks like and also what values appear.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:48
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Jam2 posted:I think we may all be misinterpreting what I mean by holds value. Do you want lowest total cost to own? You probably want a used 2nd-gen Prius. You need to think about the total cost of ownership rather than focusing on depreciation. Insurance is a huge cost, so is fuel, maintenance, and repairs. Priuses have proven to be extremely reliable, and should be very cheap to insure compared to something like a Civic. Edit: By 2nd-gen I mean 2004-2009. If you are serious about minimizing depreciation, you will buy a 2004 Prius with 180k miles on it. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 03:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I want to drive one but I'm in the Carolinas. Can you post a write up in AI proper? Sadly, our GM is not allowing any of the sales staff to drive it. Customers can test drive. I am sure that car will not last the weekend.
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Nov 7, 2013 05:46
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Weinertron posted:Do you want lowest total cost to own? You probably want a used 2nd-gen Prius. You need to think about the total cost of ownership rather than focusing on depreciation. Insurance is a huge cost, so is fuel, maintenance, and repairs. Priuses have proven to be extremely reliable, and should be very cheap to insure compared to something like a Civic. Yes TCO is probably a better proxy for the things I care about. I should weigh that more heavily than depreciation.
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Nov 7, 2013 06:46
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Ultimate Mango posted:I am considering replacing my 2008 BMW 750Li. It has ~72k miles and will be running out of warranty in the next few months. I own it outright. I have many data points that suggest it is rather unwise to keep a seven series past its warranty, but we can discuss that here (looking for advice). Am also considering a mid sized luxo-sedan thread in AI, but hope to have some dialog here first before making a mega post somewhere else. This might be a bit of a stretch if you're doing 300 miles on the regular, but have you considered a Tesla Model S? I've driven all the different trim levels and they're all great. A P85 with no options is just above your price ceiling, but you can order a fully loaded 60 instead (albeit the range on this smaller battery is only 200 miles). They have optional child seats integrated into the trunkspace which are considered to be some of the safest in the industry. The touchscreen is comically oversized, but it allows you to split the screen between two activities. The UI is slick and responsive, I prefer it to anything I've experienced in another luxury car. Since you live in SoCal, those long trips might send you past a Supercharger station, which would make the range less of an issue. As far as how they drive, it's a very well-mannered car. Great acceleration, good road manners, in fact the center of gravity is so low due to those heavy-rear end batteries in the floor that the car feels a lot smaller than it is. The steering feel is similar to a Mercedes, and in fact the column shifter is sourced directly from them, so maybe that isn't the driving experience you're looking for. I'd recommend taking a test drive, though, it couldn't hurt.
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Nov 7, 2013 09:41
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Jam2 posted:Yes TCO is probably a better proxy for the things I care about. I should weigh that more heavily than depreciation. Check out the Edmunds TCO, you can even use it for used vehicles. It's useful for a ballpark figure when comparing different cars.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:02
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Jam2 posted:I think we may all be misinterpreting what I mean by holds value. I guess I'm having issues wrapping my head around what exactly are you looking for. Do you have plans to sell the car after X number of years or X number of miles? Are you looking for the least expensive car to own for a set period of time? I, for example drive a lot. I put about 20 to 25K miles a year on my car and plan on keeping my car for about 5 years total. When I buy my next car I'll calculate things like maintenance costs, average MPG, insurance costs, and projected depreciation (which is a crapshoot), and then come to a TCO/Cost Per Mile figure. If you plan to changes cars before 45,000 miles or 39 months or ownership, you might as well lease your next car. We lease my wife's car and it works out well for us, but we tend to change her vehicle every 2 to 3 years. (The last one we only had 22 months) Interesting thing I read in an article, The FJ Cruiser retains the highest value over a 5 year period than any other car, even the Tacoma. The Tacoma was #2 on that list.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:31
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The problem I have with all of those resale value articles is that they always use new MSRP as their starting point and so the "worst" cars are just the ones that have the biggest incentives and discounts at the beginning, like the old Impala. The best ones are always Japanese made Toyotas and Hondas, where they have maximum flexibility in their inventory. I mean you should still buy an Avalon over an Impala because the Avalon is a better car, but resale value isn't really that big of a factor as you think.
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Nov 8, 2013 01:44
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skipdogg posted:I guess I'm having issues wrapping my head around what exactly are you looking for. Leasing sounds like a worthwhile consideration. How might I assess lease terms and sort out the favorable from the unfavorable? Jam2 fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 02:00
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I think I made some giant sperg post about leasing in this thread previously but I'll be damned if I'm going to search for it.
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Nov 8, 2013 03:33
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Just click on the question mark in your AV. My first post in this thread was about leasing (and also buy a Prius).
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Nov 8, 2013 03:54
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Phone posted:BMW 335d. Didnt the new 335's lose one of their turbos?
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Nov 8, 2013 15:34
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Here's a giant post I made about leasing. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=418852871&forumid=158 Jam2 posted:Leasing sounds like a worthwhile consideration. How might I assess lease terms and sort out the favorable from the unfavorable? Generally a good lease will involve a low money factor (interest rate), high residual value, and a dealer willing to sell a car for much less than MSRP. Your payment is based on how much depreciation you're paying, while the residual value is a set number, so you want to minimize the depreciation you pay. Say you lease a 40K car with a 55% residual. The agreement is the car will be worth 22K when you're done with it. If you pay 37K for the car, you only pay 15K in depreciation, if you pay 40K for the car you pay 18K making your lease payment higher. Over a 36 month lease that could be almost 100 dollars a month difference. Leasing isn't for everyone, but if you want to drive a new car, keep the mileage reasonable, and like to change cars every 3 years or so, leasing can have a lower monthly cost than purchasing the same vehicle. It works great for us since we change my wife's vehicle so often.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:04
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skipdogg posted:Here's a giant post I made about leasing. Are there restrictions on how many miles you can put on the leased car?
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Nov 8, 2013 23:59
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The Casualty posted:This might be a bit of a stretch if you're doing 300 miles on the regular, but have you considered a Tesla Model S? I've driven all the different trim levels and they're all great. A P85 with no options is just above your price ceiling, but you can order a fully loaded 60 instead (albeit the range on this smaller battery is only 200 miles). They have optional child seats integrated into the trunkspace which are considered to be some of the safest in the industry. The touchscreen is comically oversized, but it allows you to split the screen between two activities. The UI is slick and responsive, I prefer it to anything I've experienced in another luxury car. Since you live in SoCal, those long trips might send you past a Supercharger station, which would make the range less of an issue. I ruled out the Tesla based on price, and range. I would need the larger battery for the car to be actually useful for me. They are beautiful and drive well and would be great, no doubt. I may go drive one, but probably a non starter due to range and price. I expect more great things from Tesla, and the industry in general, and I think the Model S will be viewed as a real pioneer in this space. If I could steal a Model S P85 with options for ~$75k that's another story entirely. Of course I would have to convince the wife to let me install a charging station, but first things first.
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Nov 9, 2013 00:13
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Jam2 posted:Are there restrictions on how many miles you can put on the leased car? There always are. Usually between 12-15k/year. The overage charge is typically absurd too.
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Nov 9, 2013 02:28
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Indecision1991 posted:Didnt the new 335's lose one of their turbos? Doesn't matter. The N54 has had at least 5 fuel pump redesigns. 335d (as in diesel) is the answer. You'll have to buy it CPO or just used. 3.0L 6 cylinder making 265hp and 425 ft-lb of torque that gets 35mpg. Phone fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 03:51
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Well the 335d still has 2 turbos, it's a sequential compound setup too. Because just having 2 turbos is too reliable. If you buy a 335d I hope you like fixing cars, the engines are very unreliable even by the standards of EU diesel engines, beginning with the jerry rigged DEF injection system. Just look in the forums. The guy in AI (BlackMK4) who has one has had all kinds of problems and can't get rid of it fast enough. EDIT: Diesels in general are horrible ideas for anyone who wants to save money. They are expensive to buy in the first place, have much higher maintenance costs, and are all VWs or BMWs or Mercedes that have questionable reliability at best no matter what they make. THe only people who should be buying diesels are those who drive a poo poo ton of miles towing a fleet of Miatas behind a >3/4t truck. Still horribly expensive, just slightly less so than doing it in a gas 3/4t truck. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 04:15
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Jam2 posted:Are there restrictions on how many miles you can put on the leased car? Here is another write up on leases that I posted back in August. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=134#post418837349
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Nov 9, 2013 04:41
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Throatwarbler posted:Well the 335d still has 2 turbos, it's a sequential compound setup too. Because just having 2 turbos is too reliable. While I dont mind doing basic maintenance and basic repairs, if they are that unreliable I don't have the time to to be car less. I do need something reliable.
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Nov 9, 2013 04:49
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Proposed Budget: 200-300$ per month, plus around 3k for a down payment New or Used: New if at all possible Body Style: I have no idea How will you be using the car?: 60 minute commute(both ways included)5 days a week + errands. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Does it have power windows, A/C, and automatic transmission? Cool, I'm good to go. What aspects are most important to you?: MPG, Low maintenance requirements. Note, I am a retarded 24 year old with literally no knowledge about cars or maintenance or financing. I thought I'd grab some goon advice before I get completely blind-sided at a dealer.
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Nov 9, 2013 12:45
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Don't shop on payment.
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Nov 9, 2013 14:24
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Don't shop on payment. Unfortunately, my options are limited. My own cheap car got totaled, and currently I'm borrowing a car to get to work, but I'm in need of a car ASAP. I don't have the months required to save up to get a new one, and from what I understand, monthly payments on a used car would be pretty high. I absolutely do not want to get a <3,000 car if at all possible, I definitely learned my lesson with the old one that I wound up paying for twice over from taking it to the shop so much.
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Nov 9, 2013 15:37
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Umbreon posted:Unfortunately, my options are limited. My own cheap car got totaled, and currently I'm borrowing a car to get to work, but I'm in need of a car ASAP. I don't have the months required to save up to get a new one, and from what I understand, monthly payments on a used car would be pretty high. What I assume he meant was you need to think about more than $/mo payments--think total cost as well. The salesman will try to do everything he can to just barely get inside of your $/mo limit while making you pay more in the long term by extending the duration of your loan.
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Nov 9, 2013 15:49
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Yeah, do not tell them what your ideal monthly payment would be.
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Nov 9, 2013 17:43
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It's a good idea to keep you monthly payment where you want it from a budget standpoint, but don't ever negotiate based on it. Salespeople can do all sorts of trickery to make it work and it almost always involves you paying more for it in the end. Runs some numbers ahead of time and figure out what a $300 monthly payment will get you with $3k down and then negotiate off that number. Assuming you have good credit, you should probably be able to get around a 3% interest loan. On a four year loan, that would mean you could afford around $16,750 out the door. On a five year loan about $19,750.
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Nov 9, 2013 18:22
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Proposed Budget: Up to $30,000 New or Used: New Body Style: 2 or 4 door hatchback How will you be using the car?: May tow small things infrequently, will not have more than 5 passengers ever, commute probably averages 45 minutes each way but that may change soon. The wife and I like to do ourdoorsy stuff like camping, backpacking, kayaking, etc. We fairly regularly take 1200+ mile round trip road trips. I often pack my 07 Scion tC full to the brim with cargo. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? - Nothing too fancy. Bluetooth audio, power locks / windows, climate control and heated seats would be a plus. Not interested in a navigation package or touchscreen console, as I would prefer to use my phone or tablet. What aspects are most important to you? Reliability is fairly important to me because I am not mechanically inclined and like most people need a car for work. Cost of ownership is of average importance, I can afford to do repairs but the car can't be falling apart. I prefer import cars and can't really see myself driving an american brand. MPG matters little, size and style are important. I quite like the hot hatch thing, or the FRS/BRZ. My current car is a 2007 Scion tC, which gets a lot of poo poo. But, it was my first car and I love it. I think it was absolutely perfect for me. Unfortunately, it is starting to show its age and I think it's time for an upgrade. I have been thinking about getting a new car for the past 2 years or so, but have held off due to waiting for the FRS/BRZ, new job, getting married, etc. Well, the FRS/BRZ has been released, the new job is no longer a new job, and I done and got hitched. I really love the look and idea of the FRS/BRZ, but I am not sure I can give up the versatility that the hatch on my tC has given me. Additionally, I would like to move to Colorado sometime in the next year and I have never driven in snow, so I am leaning towards AWD, since I am sure I will need all the help I can get. With all that said, I have been trying to temper my lust for the FRS/BRZ, and have been looking at a slightly more practical WRX hatchback. I think it has a lot more utility, has AWD, and hey a little bit more power never hurt. Leaning towards the Premium for the heated seats, heated mirrors, and windshield wiper de-icer. Not a fan of leather seats, so no need for the Limited. Financially, I can afford a new car but with the upcoming move (and possibly new jobs, if both the wife and I can't work remotely) it is less than ideal. I kind of wanted to sell the car and then move, to save on the transport fee. But then I found out that they are no longer making the WRX hatchback in 2015, and while I'm not against buying a used card, a used WRX seems like a bad move. We will be renting out our current house and looking to rent when we get to Colorado, so that makes things slightly more volatile as well. I guess I've already made up my mind, but I am looking for second opinions.
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Nov 9, 2013 18:23
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Umbreon posted:Unfortunately, my options are limited. My own cheap car got totaled, and currently I'm borrowing a car to get to work, but I'm in need of a car ASAP. I don't have the months required to save up to get a new one, and from what I understand, monthly payments on a used car would be pretty high. Keep in mind you will need to buy full coverage insurance if you get a loan as well.
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Nov 9, 2013 18:57
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Internet Explorer posted:I guess I've already made up my mind, but I am looking for second opinions. I know you said no domestics, but the Focus/Fiesta ST are in your budget, hatchbacks, and very fun to drive. They're generally regarded as the best of the hot hatches, I believe. Not AWD, but snow tires matter a lot more than AWD in the snow. Maybe that's too many compromises for you from the WRX, but I'd cross shop them and see what you think.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:41
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rockcity posted:It's a good idea to keep you monthly payment where you want it from a budget standpoint, but don't ever negotiate based on it. Salespeople can do all sorts of trickery to make it work and it almost always involves you paying more for it in the end. Runs some numbers ahead of time and figure out what a $300 monthly payment will get you with $3k down and then negotiate off that number. Assuming you have good credit, you should probably be able to get around a 3% interest loan. On a four year loan, that would mean you could afford around $16,750 out the door. On a five year loan about $19,750. I took this and the other guys advice and the salesperson applied some graduate discounts and a few other things and gave me a quote for a little over 15k for a 2013 hyundai accent. How bad is that? I of course didnt agree to anything yet, so things can still change.
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Nov 10, 2013 00:32
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And I will confirm....do not give a payment you are trying to get to. I make more money on those than the people looking for the out the door price. Do some math at home and figure out what price will get you to roughly a $300 payment (usually good to try and get pre-approved with a credit union you maybe already use) and then find a car that will fit that range. For an example, if you can get 1.9 % apr for 60 months from either a credit union or he manufacturers financing arm, you would be looking at a vehicle that costs $17,000 out the door including fees. Now let's say the original price of the vehicle was $18,000 and you were just shopping payment. They could keep the original price, put you at 72 months and try to do the deal at 6.1% apr and the payment would still be $300. Work the price first.
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Nov 10, 2013 05:48
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After negotiating on email, I am about to meet with the dealer on a 2014 Mazda6 mid level touring (fake leather,camera, big tires) for about 26,800 out the door with an s-plan price. They are still trying to upsell me packages (the current price stands at 27,465) but I think I can get rid of them. Sanity/buyers remorse check time. What comparably could I be getting for a few thousand less than that price? Must...resist...urge to be practical and go for a 2013/4 low trim Camry.... or maybe I should? CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 00:38
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The Mazda6 is great but you can get a new Mustang GT for the same price. 240 more horsepower 
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Nov 12, 2013 00:49
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Ok now I get 27,120.06 OTD for this Mazda6 (that includes a friggin 399 doc fee.) I'm not an exciting car person, unfortunately. I prefer the horsepower and excitement of personal finance and professional responsibility. I can't get a cool Mustang, I'd have to lift more and grow a mustache and everything. Now I'm thinking if I can get 20K OTD for this 2012 Camry L with 18000 miles, I can just toss in a bunch of after market electronics. 27k for new 2014 mazda6, vs 20k for used Camry which will need some add-ons.....
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Nov 12, 2013 01:17
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CatchrNdRy posted:Ok now I get 27,120.06 OTD for this Mazda6 (that includes a friggin 399 doc fee.) I'm not an exciting car person, unfortunately. I prefer the horsepower and excitement of personal finance and professional responsibility. I can't get a cool Mustang, I'd have to lift more and grow a mustache and everything. Just buy new, you won't want to deal with this other poo poo.
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Nov 12, 2013 03:58
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Is the Costco buying service any good? I'm not confident in my haggling abilities and if the price they offer isn't that much different from what a good haggle would get, I wouldn't mind using it.
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Nov 12, 2013 19:03
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It's not bad. When I used it years ago it was basically invoice + 500 plus any other rebates. You can do better on your own usually unless it's a hot in demand vehicle. It was pretty stress free. Pretty much here's the price do you want the car?
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Nov 12, 2013 21:12
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Need some math help.... Probably going to buy a Chevy Cruze tomorrow. I'm crunching a bunch of numbers to find my sweet spot price. What am I getting wrong with TOTAL INTEREST on my Excel sheet versus the Edmunds calculator?   I'm hoping to get my monthly payments around $300... so I'm kind of working backwards to find the right out the door total.
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Nov 13, 2013 18:47
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