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Vil posted:If certain branches do in fact go further than others, which makes logical sense as a possibility, my guess is that Fedule likely chose a spot to cut off the image such that nothing would be given away by the game's UI. Nope, it's actually a feature(?) of the Vita version - I won't say by how much, but the final graph is certainly larger than the one you were presented with earlier in the thread. I was holding off on saying it since I thought it was a spoiler, but one of my favorite moments was when a path went past what was presumed to be hard cutoff points. Going back into the flow menu and seeing a square lower than the "bottom" was a pretty strong "Oh. Wait, what?... Oooooh... Wait, just how far do these actually go, then?" moment
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Nov 8, 2013 22:43
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Vil posted:If certain branches do in fact go further than others, which makes logical sense as a possibility, my guess is that Fedule likely chose a spot to cut off the image such that nothing would be given away by the game's UI. Sentient Data posted:Nope, it's actually a feature(?) of the Vita version - I won't say by how much, but the final graph is certainly larger than the one you were presented with earlier in the thread. I was holding off on saying it since I thought it was a spoiler, but one of my favorite moments was when a path went past what was presumed to be hard cutoff points. Going back into the flow menu and seeing a square lower than the "bottom" was a pretty strong "Oh. Wait, what?... Oooooh... Wait, just how far do these actually go, then?" moment You're both right. There are certain branches that are hidden until you reach them, but the default flowchart still shows a number of conspicuously long and short branches past the point shown in my screenshots, and I am very deliberately cropping that screenshot such that you can't see which branches extend downward.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:57
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Fedule posted:You're both right. There are certain branches that are hidden until you reach them, but the default flowchart still shows a number of conspicuously long and short branches past the point shown in my screenshots, and I am very deliberately cropping that screenshot such that you can't see which branches extend downward. yeah if we were able to see those that would totally influence the votes.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:59
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Fedule posted:You're both right. There are certain branches that are hidden until you reach them, but the default flowchart still shows a number of conspicuously long and short branches past the point shown in my screenshots, and I am very deliberately cropping that screenshot such that you can't see which branches extend downward. So the version I saw is not the complete one either? Well that'd be a relief and actually make sense. Also means I'll be playing this game for an even longer time, I'm trying to take it slow since I'm a sucker for games like this but there aren't a lot of them and they're always over too soon. It's not exactly easy though. The only thing I'm a bit disappointed of in this game is the soundtrack, it seems to do quantity over quality this time around. The Laboratory theme is okay in my books since, although nothing special otherwise, you can occasionally hear the satisfying "You escaped" jingle in it.  Still, they do their job, but not much really stands out. At least they included 999's great tracks as well, Chill and Rigor for example still gets to me every single time.
Kanfy fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 23:42
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I'd say the soundtrack is somewhat less effective in this game, too. Chill and Rigor, as I recall, only played in 999 when you were about to die. Here, Sigma pretty much says that he doesn't want to die and thinks of a solution and the game cuts to a To Be Continued, which more or less implies that he might not die after all. There are also no tracks like Extreme Extrication, which give a foreboding feeling even when nothing is happening.
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Nov 9, 2013 18:58
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Chill and Rigor, as I recall, only played in 999 when you were about to die. Here, Sigma pretty much says that he doesn't want to die and thinks of a solution and the game cuts to a To Be Continued, which more or less implies that he might not die after all. Nah, you might be thinking of Quietus which is the bad end theme. Chill and Rigor definitely played elsewhere, in fact as early as when the group opens Door 5 after the 9th man redecorates the hallway behind it. There's also Eternitybox but that plays many times as well (and is also great). At least most of VLR's good music plays during the novel sections which is when it's most important to build atmosphere. Ace Attorney really opened my eyes to just how much music and sound can affect the game, that series wouldn't be half as enjoyable without the great soundtracks and sound effects that are also timed and used really effectively.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:40
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I'd say the soundtrack is somewhat less effective in this game, too. Yeah. I'm loving VLR and all, but god I miss 999's atmosphere. VLR's soundtrack is good but I don't think it holds a candle to 999's. And without the nine hour time limit the first game had, i don't know. Nothing in VLR feels really urgent. You can just laze about and play the AB game as many times as you want until everyone has 9 points and be on your merry way. In 999 you had constant reminders that the characters were in a dangerous situation. Find the DEAD or you will explode, the clock is ringing you only have _ hours until the ship sinks, to win this puzzle room strap someone onto this mysterious experiment chair in the middle of this torture chamber. I guess now that we've been through a run or so there's an aspect of like "oh man i gotta do something for quark b4 he goes crazy" or "oh man i gotta stop whoever killed alice before they kill alice", but I still don't really think it compares to 999's immediate danger. like I don't want to be some "omg trve kvlt so br00tal" guy but man I hope it goes back to 999's mood.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:45
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It's just not the same when nobody's blown-up corpse isn't described with food-related similes such as "what remained of his intestines spilled out like fresh spaghetti" and "half of his collapsed head made it look like raw pizza dough covered in tomato sauce". Maybe they actually kept their writer fed this time around.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:02
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Something I kind of missed in the transition from 999 to VLR was the gameplay change that comes with the flowchart. 999 got tedious sometimes and I definitely understand and appreciate the flowchart for cutting that down (especially because VLR is enormous and would take an unreasonable amount of time to play without jumping around the flowchart), but I still miss the aspect of resetting the game and saying "What can I do differently this time to stop Clover from going crazy?" (or whatever other problem you encountered in your previous playthrough.) I think would be a lot less interesting if you could say "Clover went crazy and killed everyone with an axe. I'll just hop back to every branch in the flowchart and try the other choice until she doesn't." I think VLR would be a much worse game if it didn't have the flowchart, because it already takes 40 hours to go down every path when you don't have to repeat anything, so I'm not saying the flowchart was a bad decision. I just kind of miss that aspect of playing through the game again and thinking about what choices to make differently in order to avoid the outcome you don't want.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:16
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kvltmanifesto posted:Nothing in VLR feels really urgent. Well, there is the door time limit, which will kill you if you don't enter it. But even that is a bit trivialized given how they wait until the last five seconds to decide on a door to enter. And the AB Rooms give you 45 minutes to go and vote. Kanfy posted:It's just not the same when nobody's blown-up corpse isn't described with food-related similes such as "what remained of his intestines spilled out like fresh spaghetti" and "half of his collapsed head made it look like raw pizza dough covered in tomato sauce". Well, that's because June was narrating the game, and June was weird. I do like how there's reference to that fact when she describes the picture as a "demon sucking on an elephant's brain", though.
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Nov 9, 2013 21:14
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Nevermind!
Kanfy fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 00:30
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edit: removed
Color Printer fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 00:42
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E: Post killed by lethal injection
Kanfy fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 01:01
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So, the poll was pretty interesting. It looked like ~/cyan was going to win by a somewhat tight but noticeable margin, but then, while I was away, maybe one more person every day showed up to vote for ~/yellow/ally/red/betray until it finally won by three votes. So that's something. Well, I'm back now, so poll's closed and back to work!
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Nov 11, 2013 05:40
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Yessssss, I knew hatred of Dio would pull through! LET'S GET READY TO PUNCH SOME FACES!
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Nov 11, 2013 06:58
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By a margin of three votes, we have elected to do-over that last decision and betray Dio. We're dropped back at the start of the AB Game, so let's just skip ahead... ...and get to pressing the drat button. After the standard announcement, we head outside. VLR OST: [Portentousness] Listen in: [English/Japanese] ...Why? After all that stuff you said... ... I mean, it's not like I'm criticizing you. I think you made the right decision... ... Sorry. You don't need to apologize. I think I would've chosen "betray" if I was in your position... ... We'll find another way, all right? We just have to keep an eye on Dio. As soon as he gives us an opening, we take it. Did you tell her...? It's okay. We can trust Alice... There's no way she told him. ... Anyway, let's go check the results. Y-Yeah... [Music fades out]
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Nov 11, 2013 12:28
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Advisory: Since this result is not very shocking and is the first update after I left the thread for a week, you can have the next update in an hour or so because I've missed you all so much.
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Nov 11, 2013 12:29
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Fedule posted:
Thanks Clover. I've got a feeling Alice knowing and Alice disappearing are related somehow.
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Nov 11, 2013 12:48
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K wins! Get your gif-makers ready for when he takes off his helmet, shakes out his long, golden Fabio hair, and yells "See you later, shitlords!" as his rocket feet power on and he flies out the 9 door.
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Nov 11, 2013 12:57
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K takes off his helmet and reveals that he's actually Dio, and when everyone does a double take and looks at the "real" Dio, it turns out to have been a sock puppet this entire time.
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Nov 11, 2013 13:30
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I think it's been pretty spelled out by now that K is Old Man Jenkins from the haunted amusement park. "And I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling college-age people and your dumb dog!" "I'm a rabbit."
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Nov 11, 2013 13:34
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K is Dio in a robot-suit. Dio is a robot in a Dio-suit.
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Nov 11, 2013 14:11
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K is actually K' (pronounced K-Dash), and he's here to stop NESTS.
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Nov 11, 2013 14:12
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Please check your bracelet to see your updated Bracelet Points. VLR OST: [Eeriness] Listen in: [English/Japanese] Sorry... I decided to choose "betray". Oh, so you don't care what happens to Quark?! What kind of a cold-hearted bastard are you?! Please... Just give it back... We found the Axelavir... in the laboratory.. And Dio... stole it... Wh-What?! You mean he has it? Right now? What?! [Music fades out] No! Don't! Listen in: [English/Japanese] ... VLR OST: [Consternation] What are you doing?! A promise is a promise. If you'd chosen "ally", this never would've happened. You wanna blame someone? Blame yourselves. Guh...! Bastard! I let out a guttural roar, and leapt forward-- Only to be stopped short by a firm hand on my arm. Listen in: [English/Japanese] Hold it. Why are you stopping me?! Because this isn't the time for that. Huh? What do you mean this isn't the time for-- Look at the number nine door. K was indeed standing in front of the door. What... what is he...? No! [Music fades out] His BP is 9... What?! Listen in: [English/Japanese] VLR OST: [Demise] What am I doing? Well, that should be obvious, but if you insist; I am attempting to leave. Are you loving kidding me?! I assure you I would do no such thing. I am perfectly serious. After a rational assessment of the facts, I have concluded that this is the wisest course of action. The answer is, of course, to save Quark. He must be taken to a hospital as soon as possible. Currently, the only one of us capable of doing so is myself. That is why I intend to escape. And leave us all behind... Unavoidable, but as I said, I do intend to call for help. Couldn't you have at least waited until the next round? Then you could have raised Quark's BP to 9, and taken him with you... I have no illusions about what Dio would do. ... This is the most logical choice. It will remain open for 9 seconds. Where's Alice? Ah, yes. Alice is in the AB Room. She is only... sleeping. Oh no... What did you do to Alice?! You will need to ask her yourself. I must take my leave. Hey! Goddamnit! Wait! This ends the Nonary Game. Thank you for your participation. As the game is over, all doors other than the number nine door have been unlocked. Escape is not possible. Please enjoy your stay. ... And there we go. Our first legit Bad Ending... and our first Ending, period, for that matter. For some reason, the Bad Endings are attributed, often quite arbitrarily, to one character or another. Since we haven't discovered any new paths since the last time we had a vote, our next jump will be the next most popular option on the poll; in this case, going back to the start and teaming up with Alice. Let's hope this path will help us make sense of things!
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Nov 11, 2013 14:17
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Good end.  K is the best.
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Nov 11, 2013 14:43
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I just love K's happy expression. Especially when it's given an ominous implication like right there... For bad end attribution - this one DID come about because of Quark (if indirectly) so it's not as huge of a stretch as you might think.
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Nov 11, 2013 14:51
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VLR teaches us our first lesson: children's lives are more important than our own.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:05
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Finally! I'm just happy we got to an ending, good or bad. (I'm not a big fan of this whole "find the key elsewhere in the game and come back later" business)
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Nov 11, 2013 15:07
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Regy Rusty posted:VLR teaches us our first lesson: children's lives are more important than our own. Or that the narrative will always reward self-sacrificing heroic types.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:07
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So the Ally option is the one that goes forwards and the Betray is the game-over option? Quite a twisting of expectations there! Dio still a huge dick, as per expectation. Interestingly, nobody in game mentions that Sigma's just trying to avoid death. Even Sigma doesn't bring it up - saying "Sorry, I chose betray." rather than "You were going to loving kill me with that betray choice you selfish prick!"
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Nov 11, 2013 15:12
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The automatic decision that Betray must be the right choice when your opponent betrays you... it's entirely sensible, but as this ending shows us, it's not necessarily correct in the context of this game.unfair posted:Finally! I'm just happy we got to an ending, good or bad. (I'm not a big fan of this whole "find the key elsewhere in the game and come back later" business) If you're not a fan of one of the central mechanics of the game, I don't understand why you're following along. Not that I'm telling you to stop, but... unfair posted:Why's that a bad thing? I wouldn't mind seeing any ending after that last route. ... when you said that, I bookmarked it. I think there are other endings that would have made this an even more ironic declaration, but I think it's almost inevitable that the first ending would be a bad one. Pringles Monster posted:
Well, hitting Betray is an instant Game Over, while hitting Ally implies that there's something we can do in our final minutes of life. I think this statement is entirely the opposite of correct. Zoe posted:'Dio, the obvious douchebag, turns out to be a murderer too, boy we were sure right to not trust that guy, weren't we?' seems a little too obvious a 'twist' for a game like this... You've been saying things like this for a while now... I'm sorry the game has disappointed you. Spatula City posted:pssssh, this is an easy choice. Dio is not good at the blackmail thing. As people have said, given the assumption that Dio cannot be trusted to keep his word at any point, choosing Ally would not guarantee Quark's safety, and would probably get Sigma killed and allow Dio to escape. If we betray Dio, he might still keep the medicine for protection. Because should he break it, Sigma will tell Tenmyougi what Dio did, and WELP. WELP. Alopex posted:Aside from what everyone else has said and the meta theory that a plain "you did it wrong and died the end" would be more anticlimactic than the alternatives? I could be entirely wrong, but like Phi, Dio's an rear end in a top hat but not necessarily a killer - which is what a betrayal at this point would turn him into. He pretty much has to be bluffing about smashing the bottle - Radical-6 has to be defended against via quarantine, which implies it's infectious, which further implies that without that Axelvir, everyone's going to get it including Dio himself. He's an rear end in a top hat and all, but he's pretty smart and obsessed with self-preservation. I don't think he's a big enough rear end in a top hat to kill everyone including himself out of plain spite. I'm only quoting this one because I think it's funny how many things you've said are contrary to what actually happens. It's very well-reasoned and the sort of speculation I'd love to see more of. It's just also very, very wrong, but leads to the correct conclusion that Ally is the right choice. I love when the wrong reasoning leads to the right answer, don't you? flatluigi posted:What I'm hoping this all means is that no path actually is an outright Bad End (but I'm sure that won't actually happen) You redeemed yourself at the end there - yes, there are bad endings.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:25
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: Not that hitting Ally with Dio is in any way, a good or safe idea.
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Nidoking posted:
Because not liking a game mechanic doesn't necessarily ruin a game, it just means I would prefer if it didn't dick you around with "to be continued" all the time.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:48
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There. I think that worked out well enough. Both the Betray Dio and Cyan door people get what they want.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:49
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I love how I was wrong on just about every point possible except which option was better. On the other hand, hahaha wow Dio got hosed over hard and it was entirely his own fault. I'm kinda sad Sigma didn't get to punch him, but I guess it would've dulled the ensuing emotional pain. And hey, he's got the rest of their lives to punch him in now.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:37
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Dio being evil is probably one of the most disappointing things about VLR. I remember in 999, I thought Santa would be evil or at least extremely difficult to deal with because he swore a lot and seemed like he'd be a jerk. And then he turned out to be one of the coolest guys in the game. So, to have a jerk character in this game who turns out to actually be a total douche isn't much of a twist. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2013 17:38
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It's not like "being evil" is the end of the story. There's still room for the ultimate reveal that Dio is a douchey robot who has no choice to be a douche because of his programming. Despite his secret robot heart of gold.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:45
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Dio being evil is probably one of the most disappointing things about VLR. but you forget that Santa was evil, and was constantly struggling against the diabolical BLACK SANTA inside him
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Nov 11, 2013 17:47
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Oh Dio, if you hadn't smashed that vial, you could still have made it out. Actually no you wouldn't have, after you pulled this crap no one would ally when going against you ever again. Now you're just trapped in a building of people who blame you for K getting out. After all, K wouldn't leave if the cure was still intact. Or at least shouldn't do so.
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Nov 11, 2013 18:11
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Just for consistency's sake... Let's give a big round of applause to K for winning the Nonary Game: Ambidex Edition! And then beat the living poo poo out of Dio.
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Nov 11, 2013 18:21
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That flow chart's going to be huge by the end of the game.
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Nov 11, 2013 18:35
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