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Figure this would be pretty fitting for the thread: Left work, and as I got in my Jeep, I was approached by the guy in the background. Said there was someone in his Jeep, high-centered and completely stuck just 30 seconds away. I went to see if there was any way I could help, but I didn't have any recovery gear in my car. The guy was completely stuck on his front and rear axles. When I asked how it happened, he said he had just bought the Commander and wanted to see how well it could do offroad without a lift. It probably took him less than a minute to get stuck where he was. Both of them looked pretty drat sketchy, and I kind of half way figured that they where going to rob me before I got there, but the guy really was just stuck. I don't feel too bad for leaving him there. Bonus picture of garbage intended to rescue the Commander 
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Nov 11, 2013 21:21
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That's a pretty sweet custom Oregon bumper.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:23
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TheSilentG posted:Figure this would be pretty fitting for the thread:  Why would you drive in the ruts instead of on top of the berm and one edge? Maybe he was trying to save his precious new Commander's paint job? Yeesh.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:00
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It depends. If you know for sure you don't have the clearance, or your track width is significantly different to whatever made the ruts, I'd say straddle them, but there's also the argument that you run the risk of trail damage by pushing the borders into the ruts and artifically eroding/widening the track, especially if it's wet and you can't truly straddle them, with one wheel slap-bang in the middle. Not that I think that guy thought about things like that. We've all done it, though, time for a spade and some swearing!
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Nov 11, 2013 23:22
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If there's tall underbrush or grass it can be a real mistake to drive out of the ruts... poo poo gets hidden in there. Stumps, rocks, holes, bottles, tangled piles of barbed wire, old utility pole guy wires and screw anchors, you name it. We spent two hours in the woods one time with a few high lifts holding a TJ up while we used all the wrong tools to get about 10 feet of 1/2" galvy steel wire rope unsnarled from his rear control arms, driveshaft, axle housing, and brake lines, he ran over it and it sprung up and snagged on something and then got wrapped into everywhere. Why? He dodged a large rock on the trail by putting two tires into the underbrush. No one could even tell it was snarled up in there till it was too late.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:32
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kastein posted:If there's tall underbrush or grass it can be a real mistake to drive out of the ruts... poo poo gets hidden in there. Stumps, rocks, holes, bottles, tangled piles of barbed wire, old utility pole guy wires and screw anchors, you name it. We spent two hours in the woods one time with a few high lifts holding a TJ up while we used all the wrong tools to get about 10 feet of 1/2" galvy steel wire rope unsnarled from his rear control arms, driveshaft, axle housing, and brake lines, he ran over it and it sprung up and snagged on something and then got wrapped into everywhere. Why? He dodged a large rock on the trail by putting two tires into the underbrush. No one could even tell it was snarled up in there till it was too late. I remember watching a kid in an Accord learn this on the way out to a festival in the hills. Swerve left to avoid a rut, drop off another foot and get stuck. That was also my first recovery experience in the Blazer, and given that I was pulling him out on a downhill, it was a very poorly planned endeavor. I quickly learned the art of keeping rope slack but distance as he sprinted up, dove in head-first through the driver window and yanked on the e-brake to stop his car from becoming one with mine.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:00
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Sandbagger SA posted:That's a pretty sweet custom Oregon bumper. What can I say? Money escapes me, and I needed recovery points. Having no bumper laws is pretty swell. I honestly haven't got a clue what the guy was thinking. The place he got his front tires stuck in was a pretty good sized rut. I had asked if they tried getting anything under the tires to try to gain traction, he said yes, and when I looked there was one tree branch loosely put in the hole (you can see it in front of the left tire). I'm not really sure if he even wanted out. I'm sure he'll come back with a SICK lift and totally dominate.
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Nov 12, 2013 03:04
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FYI, a 5-6 foot piece of 2x6 1/4 wall box tubing, 3-4 feet of 6" wide 1/4 plate, and ~8" of 10" wide 1" steel plate plus fabrication tools are all you need to build this  worthy bambi-basher of a front bumper: I would recommend using 2x7 instead of 2x6 if you intend to mount a winch in it, it was a really really tight fit and the cable path from the winch to the fairlead is anything but ideal when it's mostly spooled in. It works, though. That's maybe $150 in materials and probably 4-5 hours fabrication time.
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Nov 12, 2013 03:14
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Had a pretty great electrical gently caress-up on my xj tonight as I went to leave work. Fired it up, noticed the parking brake light on, which doesn't actually work when the brake is actually on. Hit the clutch to put it in reverse, and the most horrendous metallic noise comes from under the hood. "gently caress," I thought, "my clutch is shot, and I'm 40mi from home." Put it in gear as the noise continues, clutch seems to be working fine. Only makes noise when i have the clutch all the way in. I notice my lights dim every time I clutch in, too. Coworker mentions it sounds like the starter is engaging when I hit the clutch, and I think he might be on to something. I shut it off, fired it back up, parking brake light is dark and clutch doesn't make the death sound. On a scale from one to ten, how hosed is my electrical system?
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Nov 12, 2013 07:26
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I think that's a "hahahahahahahaha" on that scale. Has anyone here done the 8.8 rear swap on an XJ? I've got a '00 XJ (4.0; 4x4; automagic) and it's on the short list of necessities. I'm wondering what the major hurdles that will inevitably crop up are, and what supporting equipment I need to buy. Related question, what's a good slip yoke eliminator? I think we're going to do them at the same time so that we can (maybe) sort out the driveshaft once, rather than twice. We've got a '97 explorer with rear discs that I'll (probably) be able to grab the rear end out of for not much, we'll likely be rebuilding the diff (fresh clutches, basically), and will be changing the front Dana 30 to 3.73s to match. And hopefully not long after, 33s! Edit with what I found so far: This site says the parking brake cables are a huge pain in the rear end, and it's worth buying the aftermarket ones for this swap. Also, brake proportioning: I have no loving idea. And the parking brake is still a drum? poo poo, guess I need a Mico. Krakkles fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 07:31
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Krakkles posted:I think that's a "hahahahahahahaha" on that scale. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/8-8-swap-write-up-530202/ Hardest part looks to be the spring perches that you have to weld on. What axle do you have right now? If it's the newer 29 spline C8.25 I wouldn't bother doing the swap unless you REALLY want discs and REALLY want bigger tires.
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Nov 12, 2013 08:08
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Audiologic posted:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/8-8-swap-write-up-530202/
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Nov 12, 2013 08:12
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Krakkles posted:It is the corporate 8.25, but I honestly think it needs discs. The brakes seem rather inadequate in serious wheeling. And I'm definitely going to 33s. I'd go to 35s if it didn't mean the front diff would eat itself. The 8.25 is going to be plenty strong enough to run 33s, and from everything I've read the 29 spline 8.25 is strong enough for bigger sizes as well. You could hit a pick and pull and grab the discs from a liberty for super cheap, pretty direct swap
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Nov 12, 2013 10:20
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:On a scale from one to ten, how hosed is my electrical system? Anybody have an idea what this could be? My only thought was short in the ignition switch somehow letting the clutch interlock switch activate the starter circuit. The fact that a completely unrelated light came on makes me think maybe it's a computer issue though. wilfredmerriweathr fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 15:35
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Had a pretty great electrical gently caress-up on my xj tonight as I went to leave work. Fired it up, noticed the parking brake light on, which doesn't actually work when the brake is actually on. Hit the clutch to put it in reverse, and the most horrendous metallic noise comes from under the hood. I'll check the FSM later but my best guess right now is a hosed up starter relay (it's in the PDC under the hood, try swapping it with the AC compressor relay) or a bad ground somewhere. Probably the bad ground, but the relay is a 5 minute thing to try. Krakkles posted:It is the corporate 8.25, but I honestly think it needs discs. The brakes seem rather inadequate in serious wheeling. And I'm definitely going to 33s. I'd go to 35s if it didn't mean the front diff would eat itself. Don't waste your time on an 8.8 unless you're going 4.10s, 3.73s is barely a change. You can put $80-100 in junkyard ZJ rear discs onto an 8.25 in a couple hours and Crown Automotive makes an e-brake cable kit that makes the cables bolt-on. Also, you may just need to rebuild the rear drums. If you don't mind buying all new hardware (you're in the southwest right? you may not even need to) XJ rear drums are really, really simple. I previously poo poo on them a lot because I'd never had an easy time working on them... because every vehicle I'd had them on was a giant ball of rust. I can lock up my rear drums doing 20 on dirt just by yanking the e-brake cable with them properly maintained and adjusted, I haven't tried it on pavement yet because I don't want to flat spot my tires. Don't get me wrong, the 8.8 swap is awesome, but going from a 29 spline 8.25 to an 8.8 is barely an upgrade. The shafts are somewhat bigger, but you can run 33s on a 29 spline 8.25 all day with it stock, even with an LSD or locker, and I'd put 35s on one without much concern if I had a full case locker and alloy shafts in it. Where the 8.8 really shines is if you need to regear to 4.10:1, add discs, and have a d35 in the back. It makes good financial sense then.
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Nov 12, 2013 15:42
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kastein posted:I'll check the FSM later but my best guess right now is a hosed up starter relay (it's in the PDC under the hood, try swapping it with the AC compressor relay) or a bad ground somewhere. Probably the bad ground, but the relay is a 5 minute thing to try. Thanks, I will check the relay out. I'm betting it's a ground too, so hopefully your manual gives some idea of where to start looking. One of my buddies that used to wheel in college saw my new ride and his first thought was "sweet rig" followed a moment later by "hope you like chasing electrical faults!"
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Nov 12, 2013 16:39
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kastein posted:Don't waste your time on an 8.8 unless you're going 4.10s, 3.73s is barely a change. You can put $80-100 in junkyard ZJ rear discs onto an 8.25 in a couple hours and Crown Automotive makes an e-brake cable kit that makes the cables bolt-on. If we did just do the brake swap, I'd still want to regear for 33s, and in that case, doing both axles anyway, I'd go 4.10s. I do want discs in the rear - I understand drums can lock up the tires, but they don't hold very well on hills (esp with the e-brake), and they get really crappy if they get wet. (And yes, I'm from the southwest, and supposedly the XJ is too (AZ), but it's got a loooooooot of rust on it.) Edit: Oh, other question. I want some kind of good diff in the back (ie, not open), and I'm leaning toward a selectable locker. What's good for the 8.25"? Looking around, it looks like there may not be any. Krakkles fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 17:26
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Krakkles posted:
Kastein will tell you LSD carriers are pretty easy to find for an 8.25 rear.
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Nov 12, 2013 19:41
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So I just had a suggestion from someone about what could have caused my issue the other night, and I think it makes sense: When I started the engine, I might have over-rotated the ignition switch so that even when I released it from the start position to the run position it continued to make contact with the start position. Then every time I hit the clutch, the clutch interlock activated and the starter engaged. Makes sense, right?
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Nov 12, 2013 20:31
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Makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm not sure how that would happen, but it does seem like a simple explanation.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:32
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More likely your ignition switch just plain failed. I had one fail like that in my GMC once; cranked, fired, and kept right on cranking (no clutch interlock switch - I suppose it would have stopped trying to crank if I had taken it out of park). It wasn't an 'over rotation' thing, it was just a switch that failed and arced across the starter contacts. If Jeep wires their starter switches like GM does (did?), that switch is carrying a lot more current than it really should be.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:38
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IOwnCalculus posted:If Jeep wires their starter switches like GM does (did?), that switch is carrying a lot more current than it really should be. This would not surprise me at all.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:40
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That also makes sense - replacing the switch is kinda a pain in the rear end, but at least it's 97+ so there aren't any brittle plastic tabs (95-96) or diving under the dashboard and growing a few extra eyes and elbows (94 down) in your future. You won't need the 9 mile long Torx screwdriver that 95-96 owners need, either. Just unscrew the shell off the steering column, then I think you'll need a regular old T20 or T25 (I forget, but it's a normal size) screwdriver or bit + ratchet to remove the ignition switch from the column. You may need a tamperproof torx to remove a screw or two that release the ignition cylinder from the switch itself, but I don't remember for sure; last time I tore that part of my jeep apart I didn't need to separate those parts so I didn't check. If you do, Sears has a decent 20-30 piece set of tamperproof screwdriver bits with a magnetic handle for like 25 bucks.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:20
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Nice, got a project for this weekend. At worst, I have an excuse to buy a tamperproof set as there have been numerous occasions where I wished I had one. Hopefully it's just the switch and I don't have to replace the lock cylinder or the "actuator" that napa has listed. wilfredmerriweathr fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 21:30
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In anything I've worked on the switch on (again, GM only here so take it with a grain of salt), yes the switch and cylinder are separate parts. I've replaced one without the other on at least three occasions (once to get my truck on common keys, once for previously mentioned switch failure, and once on a '94 Camaro where the PassKey contacts failed). If you want to head this off in the future, check out your starter circuit on a wiring diagram and see if the solenoid itself is drawing its power directly through the ignition switch. If so, consider adding a 30A relay such that the ignition switch energizes the relay, which then energizes the solenoid. It's basically a smaller-scale version of what Chevy guys have been doing for years to work around the 'hot solenoid' problem, except that you don't need to dick around with the positive battery cable and add another full solenoid to the system.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:52
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:So I just had a suggestion from someone about what could have caused my issue the other night, and I think it makes sense: When I started the engine, I might have over-rotated the ignition switch so that even when I released it from the start position to the run position it continued to make contact with the start position. Then every time I hit the clutch, the clutch interlock activated and the starter engaged. I don't know about "over-rotated", but yes, it sounds like your ignition switch was between start and run. That would explain the brake light being on as well, from the bulb test in the start position.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:16
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Krakkles posted:Good info, thank you. The funny thing is, we were going to leave it 3.73 because my uncle doesn't want to deal with regearing two axles (if we did 3.73 we'd only have to do the front) - but I can't imagine redoing front and rear gears would be harder than an axle swap. You might want to check with the local junkyards and see if you can't find an 8.8 with 4.10's and then sell your 3.73 axle to cover the cost.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:18
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Veeb0rg posted:You might want to check with the local junkyards and see if you can't find an 8.8 with 4.10's and then sell your 3.73 axle to cover the cost. I like the idea of keeping the 8.25, because it seems like less work / maybe cheaper, but I think the lack of selectable lockers would bother me. Edit: It looks like with the 8.8, if I can find an explorer with axle code F7, K6, or R7, I can get an axle with 4.10s and an LSD. Which might (should) be cheaper than an Eaton. I'm not sure which way to go on that - I think I'd end up wanting the selectable, but I don't know for sure that an LSD isn't good enough. Krakkles fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 22:28
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I doubt an LSD axle will cost more of a premium over an open one than you could sell the unit for anyway, particularly if it would fit something like a Mustang.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:21
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IOwnCalculus posted:In anything I've worked on the switch on (again, GM only here so take it with a grain of salt), yes the switch and cylinder are separate parts. I've replaced one without the other on at least three occasions (once to get my truck on common keys, once for previously mentioned switch failure, and once on a '94 Camaro where the PassKey contacts failed). Fortunately I don't believe XJs suffer from this - at least on the ones I've worked on (91 and later, basically) the solenoid is powered by a relay in the PDC, which has its coil driven by the ignition switch START terminal and the negative side of the coil grounded by the NSS (on automatics) or the clutch interlock switch (on 97+ XJs) or a wire to ground (on 96- XJs.) Strangely, the switch side of the relay (aka the actual power feed to the relay that runs the solenoid) is tapped off the fuse for the rear window defrost heater grid. That was a real gotcha when I built the harness for Sandbagger's YJ, it wasn't marked down that that fuse ran anything other than the defrost grid so I didn't have a fuse in it for first start, I had a barebones fuse population in place just to avoid any accidental shorts I hadn't expected. e: you want axle code D2. 42 is a 4.10 open axle, D2 is 4.10 LSD. Also, reportedly you don't want an Eaton E-locker, I have one for a future dana 60 build but only because I got it for a very, very good price. You can get a few selectable lockers for the 29 spline 8.25 - ARB air lockers, OX selectables, and I see rumors that a Yukon Zip locker for it will be available too. kastein fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 23:35
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http://www.filson.com/aev-brute Classy. I feel like you must own a brown Labrador and shoot pheasant on some Lord's large estate with a six figure over-under to even qualify to own this Jeep.
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Nov 13, 2013 00:18
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That's honestly a surprising low price given how classy that website is.
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Nov 13, 2013 00:54
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Exactly how retarded is my cherokee going to look with 215/70/15s?
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Nov 13, 2013 02:18
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About as retarded as mine looks with 205/70R15s right now  I couldn't say no to $260 (mounted, not balanced) studded Winterforces with very little wear, and that was the size on the shelf at the junkyard. It's very, very low, and I run around 28-2900rpm at 80mph on the highway, but it has some real get up and go. I can hammer it and hit 90 without even dropping out of OD. Fuel economy is down around 1-2mpg, I was getting 19-20 and now I'm only getting 17-19 depending on how much I'm driving like an rear end in a top hat. I'll have to take a pic tomorrow or something.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:24
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At least I'm not the only one rolling around with smaller than stock tires. I ordered 215/70 blizzaks not thinking. Guess I should have ordered 235/75's but oh well.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:31
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I just got some 225/75R15 snow tires to replace the 30inch Discoverer STTs that came with the XJ. I'll admit it, I'm super stoked to see how this thing handles the snow. I've only ever owned FWD sedans. Also it is referenced in the thread title and I'm sure you guys are used to it but holy poo poo does the 4.0 have some torque.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:49
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Krakkles posted:Yeah, it looks like they were available. The upside is if I'm doing that, I could probably grab an eaton e-locker at the same time, and thus only need to find a 4.10 axle, not a 4.10 LSD axle. My plan has been for a 8.8 with factory 4.10/lsd/ disc in the rear and a mildly built d30 with a selectable locker up front. I priced out building a 8.25, even using junkyard bits it was still easier/cheaper to go the 8.8 route. Its not high on my list right now though, I'm trying to find a cheap 231 chain upgrade so I can build the spare transfer case and finally get my sye installed. Veeb0rg fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 04:19
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Yeah, I've already got the mild D30 w/ locker in the front, and on our last trip, it became apparent that I need at least an LSD in the back. Ideally, I'd like an ECTED (selectable limited / locked), but they have gotten pretty bad reliability reviews, so I suspect I'll go with the LSD, and if it ends up really bothering me, I'll change it later. I'm a little worried about going with 3.73s, but it shouldn't be an absolute dog, and the labor is free and largely making the decisions there, so ... I think it's ok  So: - find an 8.8 with an LSD. 4.10s if I can, 3.73s if not. - get matching gears for front. - rebuild LSD. - weld axle tubes to housing - replace seals & bearings - SYE (Rubicon Express?) - driveshaft (I don't know the brand on this, my uncle has a brand he likes that he uses on his truck, so I'll probably be going with that) - mounts - e brake cables - proportioning valve Am I missing anything big?
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Nov 13, 2013 08:03
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You can just pull a front driveshaft out of a cherokee and use that in the rear when you do your SYE.
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Nov 13, 2013 08:20
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Oh, that's handy - if it broke on the trail, swap it over. Awesome.
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Nov 13, 2013 08:27
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