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I don't know if you guys consider FTL to be a roguelike, but apparently there is a free upgrade in the works for all PC versions, and a debut of an iPad version soon. http://www.spacegamejunkie.com/news/ftl-advanced-edition-ipad-version-announced/ Giving the update for free to existing owners is pure class, but I'll only play it for a few hours again if you still have to build a highly specific "ascension kit" for the space boss. That, and the dice-roll systems instead of something that seeds a bit more intelligently balanced toward my delicate video gamer needs. It's a fantastic game, but I can't help it, those two things sour the heck out of me about it.
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Nov 12, 2013 07:35
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*drool* Can't wait! I don't get the comment about dice rolls however, it's a Roguelike, RNG fuckwittage is mandatory, no? The 'ascention kit' comment is slightly unfair; a very simple ship that just shoots things until they die works against the boss quite fine, it's only that smart people managed to figure out how to game the anti-boarder measures the devs put in. I still think it's an excellent game that everyone should buy and invest a hundred odd hours into it!
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Nov 12, 2013 08:04
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Maelephant posted:Not every chute is a crab chute To expand on this a bit, there are 3 (iirc) different entrances to Golgatha and 3 different chute types: endless crabs, acid gas, and fire traps. The crab one is really obnoxious, acid gas impossible, and fire traps fairly easy. Just recoiler out till you get that one.
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Nov 12, 2013 09:04
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You know, I always thought I was terrible at roguelikes until I started hearing about other people's experiences. In the latest Crawl tournament there was a not-insignificant number of people that never got a character to level 9. When I posted YASD on ADOM's message board about dying to stupidity just past Dwarftown people talked like I had thrown away a sure winner even though I can get to Dwarftown at least pretty easily.
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Nov 12, 2013 09:09
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I'm pretty sure that's only for people who are very experienced with ADOM, or prepared to do lots of grinding. I can reliably reach minetown as most classes in that game, but I have only managed to turn one run into a win. The other thing to bear in mind is that DCSS is generally considered one of the most accessible roguelikes whereas ADOM is one of the least, so a lot of people new to the genre play, lowering the average skill level considerably.
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Nov 12, 2013 09:17
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Apparently people have played ADOM for years without reaching Minetown.
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Nov 12, 2013 10:11
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doctorfrog posted:I don't know if you guys consider FTL to be a roguelike, but apparently there is a free upgrade in the works for all PC versions, and a debut of an iPad version soon. http://www.spacegamejunkie.com/news/ftl-advanced-edition-ipad-version-announced/ "Highly specific" is a bit of a joke. Any combination of weapons capable of penetrating 4 shields or a good boarding party or good drones and a level 3 shield for yourself isn't all that specific. There are combinations that make things easier and doing it without a cloak or teleporter is hard but you're fully capable of beating it with nothing but a weak shield, mediocre evasion, and some burst lasers.
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Nov 12, 2013 10:16
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Maelephant posted:Good luck! _jink posted:To expand on this a bit, there are 3 (iirc) different entrances to Golgatha and 3 different chute types: endless crabs, acid gas, and fire traps. The crab one is really obnoxious, acid gas impossible, and fire traps fairly easy. Just recoiler out till you get that one. Thanks guys. I have literally never *not* been killed on the second drop I've described (we're talking over a dozen times) so I'll try one of the different chutes since it's always been an endless crab chute for me. E: Welp that was pretty anticlimactic. Picked the acid chute, figured gently caress it, it's not endless crabs (I think? it still had chute crabs but I've never seen agolmaggots before) and every down chute was within like 20 feet of me. No instant death! Hello Cloaca! Lost all of 15 hp on my way down, heh. Also, wth, wow, I found the droid and I can just leave right now. Still exploring cause I'm stupid, and cause I want to kill Slog. I thought the droid was past the cloaca, weird. Also, is falling into the ooze and getting it into my mouth (ew) how I get glotrot? If so, gently caress, I'm stupid, at least I got regen. drat, in and out before Grit even had a chance to restock. Onward to Susa! Thank you both again! This was also the first attempt I've made after the last patch, so maybe the instadeath bug was fixed. Also, if you haven't played a Bonecrushing Cudgel user of any kind, it's pretty sweet (though admittedly I have seen exactly one two-handed fullerite maul in all my games, and it's the one in my hands right now). 45+ damage crits plus flurry erry day Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 13:46
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TOOT BOOT posted:You know, I always thought I was terrible at roguelikes until I started hearing about other people's experiences. In the latest Crawl tournament there was a not-insignificant number of people that never got a character to level 9. When I posted YASD on ADOM's message board about dying to stupidity just past Dwarftown people talked like I had thrown away a sure winner even though I can get to Dwarftown at least pretty easily. As I understand it Nethack is a great deal more deterministic than Crawl, in that with sufficient game knowledge the point at which a win is near-guaranteed comes a lot sooner and a lot more reliably. You just have to not make any mistakes. On the other hand I don't like Nethack nearly enough to find out if this is true for myself.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:10
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edit: ^^^^ All that is true, but he's talking about the Dwarftown in ADOM (which is a lot harder to get to than the one in Nethack, but still not really hard)  Fuligin posted:I'm enjoying it a lot, although I wish the difficulty ramped up a little slower. I think I can speak to this. When I was still playing the beta (Desktop Dungeons) I had gotten to the point where everything was a total cakewalk until the last 5 or so dungeons. I think they made it significantly more difficult because they didn't want the pre-order Beta players to just steamroll the finished game using all the same tactics we had been using for years. They could have maybe done something with just throwing more endgame content (and for all I know, they did - I still haven't unlocked Tier 3 heroes, and I've played for about 10 hours already) but I also like the way things are now. There's always a goal that is achievable with your skillset. And of course, being random/hard as balls is just keeping it true to its roguelike roots. One thing I do think is a little too hard/random is the "buy everything in a dungeon run" quest, because it pops up very early (for me it was even before I got the "Black Market" upgrade) and you have to really luck out and not get any of the really expensive shop items (come on Spoon, come on Spoon). All that said, I just found the Witch last night and her new art is adorable. She's a cat! 
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Nov 12, 2013 17:49
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TOOT BOOT posted:Apparently people have played ADOM for years without reaching Minetown. Most people are
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Nov 12, 2013 17:58
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In Sil, is there a way to get the benefits of the subtlety perk with hand and a half weapons like Bastard swords or battle axes? I got a sweet artefact axe but my build exploits subtlety pretty hard.
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Nov 12, 2013 18:38
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Serephina posted:*drool* Can't wait! (it is still excellent and my fingers are eternally crossed for a realtime PvP version)
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Nov 12, 2013 18:41
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Getting Pageant Boy, Telepathy for Dummies and Lemon Mishap as your first items in BoI is maddening but has a schadenfreude I hope never gets removed.
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Nov 12, 2013 18:47
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IronicDongz posted:RNG fuckery exists in all roguelikes, but I definitely feel like it's more of an issue in FTL than games like DCSS, or if you want a comparison with other roguelites, BoI, Risk of Rain, and Nuclear Throne. If you don't happen to run across enough weapons/shops selling weapons you can afford before getting to the end(or near end when everything gets 3-4 shields and decent dodge chance), you're just hosed. And it's worse with certain ships-with the stealth ship, you NEED to find shields really really fast, with the rock ship, you NEED to drop a lot of missiles over the course of the game or good non-missile weapons early on. More than any other game FTL makes me feel like I'm dependent on getting lucky with the RNG to win. Eh, you don't need shields on the stealth ships, really (it's also a challenge ship afaik). Shields make things easier, but with the same money, you can upgrade your stealth system to alpha-strike enemies before they can do any serious damage, or get better weapons, or get a pre-igniter, whatever. There's a lot of ways around a lot of the common problems in FTL; it's one of the two roguelikes I've beaten, amd it's one I can beat reliably because part of the strategy is getting as many nodes per system as you can. That means sometimes going to the exit, then going PAST the exit to get an extra node or two, then fighting the fleet on the exit node long enough to jump to the next sector. Squeezing out those extra nodes is basically an extra 1-2 sectors' worth of nodes by the last stand, which gets you the scrap you need. Also, the Engineer ship (which is unlocked on any difficulty as long as you make it to sector 5) is bar-none one of the best ships in the game because of that ion blast II. Alternatively, unlocking the Red Tail (the basic ship's variant) means you can blast through 3 shields off the bat to deal 1 damage (to a shield system!) if you can avoid missing and/or get a raiding party on their helm to remove their evasion chance. If you're struggling with FTL, try to hit more nodes per system before you jump. Every jump you make within a sector should put you juuuuuust outside of the fleet's range. You don't want to race through FTL because the nodes help so much. Also, save scrap for shops, imo. Upgrading is important, but I upgrade at shops so that if the shop has something awesome I can buy it, and if not I can upgrade there anyway. That's all without touching on weapon micro which is a huge deal. Finding even a lovely pike beam early can be a huge boon if you don't let it autoattack but use your other weapons to break shields then pike beam them to death while shields are recharging, then sell the pike beam once you find a shop with literally anything better. I've rarely found an unwinnable game compared to overextending or making errors (like blowing the airlocks and forgetting my med bay can only hold 3 crew, or just outright forgetting to close the air locks after the fight  ).Also, crew teleporters with *any* two dedicated fighters (mantis are ideal but others can work) are available on nearly any ship and act as a great utility weapon. They can wipe enemy evasion, they can disable critical systems, they can kill crew for more scrap, whatever. Granted you can't ALWAYS do all of those things, and you may have to micro them too (like running them around to avoid death while your teleporter recharges) but the point is that there's usually many different items that can work to get you out of bad situations, some may just not be obvious. Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 19:56
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FTL is just a really difficult and subtle game that doesn't have a few big strategies that turn your games from winners and losers. There are a ton of small decisions and skills, each one incrementally improving your chance to succeed. After playing for 250+ hours, I can probably win 80%+ of games that I start in FTL if I'm not going for a special goal of some sort. *Learn all the outcomes of the missions, and skip the high-reward/high-risk choice if you can't afford it. *Visit as many stars as possible before jumping to the next system, even if it makes you have to deal with the fleet when jumping out *Collect scrap at the edges, then jump to a many-jump star to scout for shops *Upgrade your secondary systems to improve your mission outcomes, medbay II is one of my first upgrades, often before the next shield pip, because it turns so many bad encounters neutral or good. *Try to get a diverse cast of crew, since that also serves to improve the average mission outcome *Upgrade your doors to level 2 asap, learn to manage fire and boarders with vacuum and the medbay *Don't over-upgrade power supply; Until very late game, if you're building efficently you should be running without oxygen and/or drives during combat except when a weapon is about to hit or you need to quickly boost O2. *Drive upgrades are very good. *Learn when to run (this just takes experience, there's no quick guide. At first, almost always run from an enemy with 2 missles, run early if every salvo of yours is likely to incur a damage from them, and it's going to be more than a couple turns before you can disable their weapons, etc) *Learn to use single missles/bombs to optimize your weapons. Lasers are typically pretty inefficient use of power/time in combat. If you still need to overpower your enemies with a bunch of busrt lasers to win a game, you need to try getting more surgical with shield-penetrating/disabling weapons. I can still lose a game to an early run of nothing-but-missles/etc, but it has to be a really, really bad run. You can win any reasonably average game of FTL without rng luck.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:17
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That's a pretty sick win rate. What would you say is the easier ship to get a win with?
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Nov 12, 2013 20:24
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I've beaten FTL with every ship I've unlocked(6 out of 9) multiple times, I don't really have much trouble with it. Regardless I still feel like too much of it comes to to chance-it doesn't take long to learn the micro for weapons/crew/whatever else, and it doesn't take long to learn what matters in which scenario and tricks like upgrading engines first to level dodge on your crew quickly, or sending a single mantis into each of the isolated artillery rooms against the final boss because they won't be able to get more crew there to repair them. It's easy to grasp all these mechanics so the difference player skill has plateaus fairly quickly, and a lot of the game comes down to what sort of encounters and finds you have, which is out of your control.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:30
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voltron lion force posted:That's a pretty sick win rate. What would you say is the easier ship to get a win with? Kestrel B, the Crystal variants and the Mantis B are pretty OP; Kestrel B is probably the easiest newbie-win ship that's easily accessed, but each ship has its own strategy. The upgrade path and priority (teleporters? power? shields?) on a Kestrel is way different than a Rock or mantis ship. Each ship gives a pretty nice variant on strategy, I'd suggest trying to win with all of them, because they all present a fairly unique challenge.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:31
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voltron lion force posted:That's a pretty sick win rate. What would you say is the easier ship to get a win with? Federation Cruiser for completely eliminating the RNG component. All you have to do is power up the beam, then survive long enough for it to fire. I find that playstyle pretty boring though.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:38
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..btt posted:Federation Cruiser for completely eliminating the RNG component. All you have to do is power up the beam, then survive long enough for it to fire. I find that playstyle pretty boring though. It doesn't eliminate the RNG component of getting hit on the beam subsystem, while already bruised elsewhere from having stood there weathering enemy fire. Krestel B is much better through its starting weaponry charging up fast and being able to go straight for the enemy weapons before they get a shot off.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:50
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Hmm, in QuD I just leveled my Sunder Mind skill to 11, and while I thought it was doing 2d12+4 (it even seemed like it was for a bit, maybe when it was still at 10), apparently it downgraded the dice roll to 1d12. I hope that's not intentional, but in any case it's a huge pain to know that spending points has hurt my damage with the skill. So maybe stop leveling Sunder Mind for a while if you manage to get a mindmelter to 20+. Also, it turns out going deep into the Asphalt Mines is fantastic for experience if you have a reliable way to deal damage ignoring enemy armor. Once lava starts appearing, Great Magma Crabs become extremely common, and even though the game shows them as tough/impossible, it turns out they're all armor and have basically no damage or accuracy. I've been getting 1000 exp per kill for about 5 levels now, and I started it at 21. It also might be a bottomless dungeon? I'm on floor 40 and it's showing no signs of stopping. lesbian baphomet fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 21:56
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Approaching Infinity is trying to kick up all of 5 grand to get some real assets (art and sound) into the game. You can play it now on the free. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/181428952/approaching-infinity-a-space-adventure-roguelike  The playable is right there at the top of the page. It's really fun if you like toolin' around in space, fighting pirates and trading things. There's a fun planet scouring mini-game as well, where you've only got so many turns you take away from the landing shuttle before you run out of air, but you can refill at the shuttle as many times as you like. Planning the best move, discovering stuff to get on the next run through, and fighting all the slimy creatures is good. You can find puzzle pieces that unlock secret space temples, make money buying low and selling high from sector to sector, and do all what you expect to do in space. It's quite simple but I really like it. I think it would be fair to call it a Prospector-Lite. I've had some pleasant back and forth with the dude making it, he's busted his rear end on the game for a while now and the whole thing is an after work labor of love for him. He's made a ton of smaller roguelikes and done I think 3 7DRLs.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:16
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I played about 50 hours of ftl but I got tired of rolling game after game hoping to spawn the right sectors for unlocks. I wish that system was overhauled in some way.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:45
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andrew smash posted:I played about 50 hours of ftl but I got tired of rolling game after game hoping to spawn the right sectors for unlocks. I wish that system was overhauled in some way. That's my beef with the game too, and it's really preventing me from enjoying it. I haven't touched it in months. You're just drawing cards off a deck, and if those cards don't let you get enough resources to do anything cool with your ship or crew, welp. Too bad.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:53
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I agree that the unlocks in FTL are bullshit in terms of RNG reliance; I've gotten the stasis pod and opened it multiple times just to have no Rock homeworld afterwards. I can't even remember if I finally unlocked the crystal ship or not. Really though, there's no "I *need* XYZ" to beat the game condition. I used to think that, but over time, you find that there's a lot of really easy ways to deal with most of the scenarios you encounter, and to be prepared for the final boss. If I manage to overcome my chronic lazyassitis, I'll set up an FTL stream (and hopefully not totally contradict myself).
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Nov 13, 2013 00:01
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Okay so I screwed up in CoQ and got the stupid disease from the slug. How do I get rid of it?
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Nov 13, 2013 02:06
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Darval posted:Okay so I screwed up in CoQ and got the stupid disease from the slug. How do I get rid of it? Ah, poo poo. poo poo. I'm gonna get that too, I think. I'd also like this spoiler.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:15
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S.T.C.A. posted:Ah, poo poo. poo poo. I'm gonna get that too, I think. I'd also like this spoiler. Did you get Ironshank as well? Found this, but don't know where to get that stuff, or if it'll cure it or just slow it or what.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:42
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madjackmcmad posted:Approaching Infinity is trying to kick up all of 5 grand to get some real assets (art and sound) into the game. You can play it now on the free. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 02:59
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S.T.C.A. posted:I agree that the unlocks in FTL are bullshit in terms of RNG reliance; I've gotten the stasis pod and opened it multiple times just to have no Rock homeworld afterwards. I can't even remember if I finally unlocked the crystal ship or not. Even if that's true, it means that instead of the game meeting me halfway and being balanced about stuff distribution and the endgame fight, I have to do all this research, either through in-game experimentation or through online discussions, about how to deal with each specific scenario. It's been a long time since I've had to play a roguelike that makes me do that kind of work, so I'm pretty spoiled. I think there's also the theme of the game to sort of blame here. I've watched Star Trek since I was a kid, and if there's one thing the franchise is famous for, is Federation types being able to figure out the right way to deal with any given situation no matter how threadbare their ship or kit. That's part of the fantasy, and yeah it's ridiculous, but FTL deliberately taps into that, and doesn't quite give me that feeling of figuring out a solution. It feels more like a slot machine pull. Early on, I even would trip around the map in a purposeful way, thinking maybe beacons that were out of the main path I wanted would have different levels of treasure/threat. Like there would be a reward for the risk of extra exploring. The only reward is a dice roll. Sure, in a regular roguelike, you usually want to fully explore a level, the risk you're taking is usually hunger or more powerful monsters spawning, and that's replicated in FTL well enough, but these days, you can also rely on a somewhat balanced RNG to spawn things that make it worth your while for that extra risk, while also giving you enough rope to hang yourself with. A completely random RNG isn't going to do this, and IMO, we're past the days of Rogue where that sort of thing was acceptable. And FTL just does everything else so perfectly . And in spite of my current whining and knowing for sure that I'm going to play it for a couple days before ragequitting, I'm reinstalling the damned thing again. If it were a car, it'd be a thoroughly perfect one, but completely missing a windshield. TL;DR: Sometimes it's not enough for an RNG to randomly love or hate you. And I'm an enormous baby.
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Nov 13, 2013 03:39
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Dammit, you just ruined FTL for me, because now I want that Darval posted:Did you get Ironshank as well? I don't know; I got a message that I was poisoned and that it hurt, and I'm not sure otherwise since it hasn't been very long since I killed him. Is there a literal status indicator somewhere, or some way I can know? I assumed that it would eventually crop up in some obvious way and just hasn't yet. How long would you say it took you to realize you had caught it? I definitely caught glotrot. I can't sell poo poo, but luckily I have a huge stockpile right now. Haven't caught Ironshank yet, hopefully I won't; my movespeed hasn't changed and my tongue's already bled out and regenerated multiple times, but hasn't fallen out. drat, I was next to the jungle village and thought I had to go to Joppa for some reason for the cure. The best part? My tongue rotted out completely as I just reached Kyakukya. My conversation option is "Nnnnnnnn." I could use my ubernostrum, but I'd rather hold on to it if I can disassemble it way later; hopefully I can regen my tongue by hunting around the village till it grows back. Time to kill Mamon, ha. Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 03:57
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precision posted:One thing I do think is a little too hard/random is the "buy everything in a dungeon run" quest, because it pops up very early (for me it was even before I got the "Black Market" upgrade) and you have to really luck out and not get any of the really expensive shop items (come on Spoon, come on Spoon). I eventually finished that quest by doing the early-ish dungeon that has two bosses (the desert, I think? The slime/warlock boss combo). Being able to sell the first boss trophy in the dungeon for 25g makes a huge difference in spending money.
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Nov 13, 2013 04:15
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Nephilm posted:It doesn't eliminate the RNG component of getting hit on the beam subsystem, while already bruised elsewhere from having stood there weathering enemy fire. Krestel B is much better through its starting weaponry charging up fast and being able to go straight for the enemy weapons before they get a shot off. If you can't manage to survive long enough to get your shields and beam weapon upgraded, the RNG is not your problem. The first sector is incredibly easy, and will give you enough scrap for a few upgrades. Once you have some levels in the beam weapon it will take more than 1 random shot to disable it. The Kestrel B can annihilate the first couple of sectors, but then you will need a weapon upgrade or two. The federation cruiser beam weapon alone can kill the mothership (provided you actually know what you're doing). No RNG luck required.
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Nov 13, 2013 08:31
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Darval posted:Did you get Ironshank as well? Amoeba slime is just the slime that spreads on the ground when you kill giant amoebas (or when you use the slime spit mutation, I think), which are fairly common underground. I don't know if you need to do anything special with it or if plain slime gathered off the ground will work, though. Also, you should buy the disease book from the village elder in Kyakukya if you haven't yet. The remedies seem to be semi-random, since mine recommended doses of a dram of slime plus a dram of blood, rather than slime+wine, like the one in your linked screenshot says.
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Nov 13, 2013 15:30
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So I got to what seems to be the bottom of Bethesda, but theres a locked frozen security door with no possible way to open it? Is there anything I'm missing here?
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Nov 13, 2013 20:02
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:Amoeba slime is just the slime that spreads on the ground when you kill giant amoebas (or when you use the slime spit mutation, I think), which are fairly common underground. I don't know if you need to do anything special with it or if plain slime gathered off the ground will work, though. Well, it says desalinated slime here, which means you need to somehow find a desalination pill (random chance at a merchant, I guess) and add it to the slime. I've found yuckwheat a few times early on, I think either in the rust wells or in Red Rock.
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Nov 13, 2013 20:03
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I recently remembered that I got an FTL steam key from Humble Bundle, and getting it installed on steam led into playing a few games... Four games into my resurrection, I unlock the Crystal ship! It seems really broken.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:54
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I just learned that it's possible to grind crew skill in FTL: If you're fighting an opponent with crappy laser/beam weapons that can't get through your shield, you can just turn off all your weapons and let them shoot at you. Crew manning the shields get xp when the shield recharges, and crew manning the engines and piloting get xp whenever you dodge a shot. If you have a weak weapon too, you can also level weapon skills by shooting it at them.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:21
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That works really well if you have an ion weapon - any time you find an enemy with a single shot laser in an early sector you can grind like that if you feel the need to.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:27
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