Attack on Titan - Debasement Yourself and Face Bloodshed

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Attack on Titan - Debasement Yourself and Face Bloodshed

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ArchangeI: Jul 15, 2010

"Don't make this gay, Mikasa!"

Spot on.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 00:18

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 22:29

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Hellbunny posted:

TLDR: "Advance of the Titan? More like ADVANCE OF THE GLORIOUS COMMUNIST REVOLUTIONARIES, AMIRIGHT?"

The Titans being transformed humans who compulsively consume even though it is of no benefit to them (and frequently gets them killed) fits this reading far too well :stare:

# ? Nov 14, 2013 00:28

Perigryn: Oct 22, 2010; TaJaaaaadoruuuuu

BizarroAzrael posted:

Edit: and a pitch-perfect Patrick Warburton impression.

It's amazing how many voices Antfish has in his repitoire given all the work he does on Jojo Abridged.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 00:34

Szmitten: Apr 26, 2008

"I'll Bertell you what I Bertold him."

Wonderful.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 01:23

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Jackard posted:

They did a decent job on this, especially liked 5:03 and the SotC music when Hannes showed up. Much better than the awful Hellsing Abridged.

I will break you

# ? Nov 14, 2013 01:25

STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS: Oct 12, 2012

That was kind of magical. Hopefully it'll update more often than their other abridged series.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 01:29

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Haha, Aryan Coconut.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 01:40

Pyrotoad: Oct 24, 2010; Illegal Hen

This series of shorts is pretty good too, though it starts right about when Eren is first revealed as a titan.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 02:21

tlarn: Mar 1, 2013; You see,
God doesn't help little frogs.

He helps people like me.

Jackard posted:

They did a decent job on this, especially liked 5:03 and the SotC music when Hannes showed up. Much better than the awful Hellsing Abridged.

I thought they were horning it in when the Shadow of the Colossus music came on. Made it up with Brock Lesnar's theme for the Armored Titan though; I kinda hoped they keep using WWE themes for those characters that can turn into titans and back, but then I got the Inception bwoooomp instead of Cult of Personality. As far as abridged series go, it's pretty alright. :shrug:

# ? Nov 14, 2013 02:22

BizarroAzrael: Apr 6, 2006; "That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

Fiend Computer posted:

That was kind of magical. Hopefully it'll update more often than their other abridged series.

Given that it was 20 minutes and used 6 episodes or so, I don't think he needs to rush.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 02:23

Winky: Jan 3, 2013

Hellbunny posted:

To put it mildly, this and similar interpretations seems to ignore HUGE parts of the "text" that is Shingeki.
WARNING: EFFORT POST INCOMING

A key note in fascism is the idea that our society either was or is "perfect", but was ruined by some foreign intruder that either smashed or infiltrated and corrupted said society. In Shingekis case, that would be the titans. Yet it's pretty clear from the get go that Shingekis world is hosed with or without the titans. The only reason Mikasa isn't a sex slave to some rich pervert in the inner city is because of a Erens burning (and admittedly, slightly deranged) sense of justice(I think, can't remember all the details). The way the king and ruling class handles the aftermath of the first attack is also pretty tellin: they first force them to slave away to get any food and they they force them all to fight the titans in a suicide attack. And this is a fifth of all humanity! It really makes you wonder how all those people could so easily be sacrificed. the answer is pretty simple though: It was because they were poor.

Which brings me to my theory regarding Shingeki: Shingeki no Kyojin is COMMUNIST AS ALL-gently caress.
Which really isn't that crazy when you think about it. I might be wrong, but pretty much every good character is a poor exploited person from either the middle or outer wall, which corresponds to the middle and lover class respectively, with some exceptions like Sasha, who we might note is still from a poor hunter family. The exception is Crista/ Historia, and she
is desperately trying to escape the oppression of her rich family, while fighting for the sake of her gay half-titan lover.
She is a gay class traitor and in Shingeki that is a good thing.

But what about the Titans? Are they not a bunch of scary foreign invader? Not really. The latest chapters revelations that Eren can control titans and that titans are humans make is explicit, but from the beginning there was something off about them as enemies. For example, they don't need to eat humans to survive, in fact they don't need to eat at all! So why do they do it? Well if Eren can command titans, and isn't the first to do so, then it's pretty clear why the titans are doing it: because they are forced to. The titans are slaves, just like the humans are. This makes them way more sympathetic then any fascist story would allow them to be. And then there id the fact that they are essentially big zombies, and zombies often stand for the poor and repressed of the world, where the true problem is whether the protagonist will respect the humanity or even ally with the zombies despite their supposed "inhumanity".

This extends to the human-titans as well. At first they might seem like the perfect fascist enemy, happily infiltrating our society and destroying it when the chance arises. But the problem here is that all the human titans that we've seen (besides Ymir, who's never been an enemy of humanity) clearly do not want to kill people. The closets we came to that was Annie, but even she could not bring herself to kill Armin, and her flashback shows that she too has some hidden reason for why she felt that she needed to kill. The same goes for Reiner and Bertolt. And then there is the continued reference to becoming a "warrior". While it could be something lame, I'd like to think that it is a reference to a social caste in the human-titan society that Annie, Bertolt and Reiner comes from.

So where does that leave us? Well the big conflict for Eren is whether he can overcome his hatred for the titans and ally with them against their as of yet unseen master(s)like maybe the monkey titan? Be that's only half of it. Because the other side of the conflict is whether the scouting legion will storm the inner city and beat the poo poo out of the decadent and evil Military police, and then killing the king responsible for everyone's misery before creating the dictatorship of the proletariat .

If this doesn't happen the manga is utter garbage .

(I'm joking a bit, but they seriously need to address some of the issues present in Shingekis world or it's gonna feel like a cop out )

TLDR: "Advance of the Titan? More like ADVANCE OF THE GLORIOUS COMMUNIST REVOLUTIONARIES, AMIRIGHT?"

I don't think the world of Shingeki conflicts with the idea of an idealized past: but the past they're idealizing is the one that predates the appearance of the titans. The government inside the wall is shown to be corrupt and society is shown to be outwardly peaceful but inwardly degenerating, and to a large degree this is blamed on the complacency of the people within the wall who are unwilling to face the horrors outside and a lack of strength and willpower in the ruling elite.

As for the sacrificing of a fifth of the population: the thing that forced this situation was an insufficient amount of land for the people to live on. They were starving to death due to the lack of territory, and the effort to reclaim the lost land was depicted as half-hearted as the inner circles were too worried about defending themselves. It's also not necessarily the case that a fascist philosophy can't embrace the down-trodden poor as a hero figure; national socialism was a counterpoint to Marxist socialism, and had a (stated) goal of breaking down barriers of social stratification in pursuit of a common goal of ruthless expansionism. All the racial cleansing was supposed to make the populace more homogenous so they could all be one big "community". Painting the current leadership of the state as soft, ineffectual, and cut off from the common man doesn't conflict with a fascist message if their goal is to say that they should be installing new (fascist) leadership who has the true interests of the nation at heart.

As for Eren, his arc doesn't necessarily conflict with an imperialistic message at all; particularly if Isiyama has a somewhat nuanced flavor of fascism. The mindless, unnecessary consumption of the titans is supposed to illustrate their superficiality and wastefulness, and the fact that they are transformed humans is supposed to make them pitiable. One could see the monkey titan climbing the wall and transforming Connie's village into titans as foreign influence likewise transforming the Japanese people into superficial consumers. Eren's newfound power is the ability to control the titans directly: his arc is to realize that victory is not going to lie in blindly destroying all of the titans, rather he must subjugate them and use them to the benefit of humanity. To that end, painting titans as being mislead or forced against their will to attack mankind could illustrate that control of them needs to be taken away from whoever has it and placed in the hands of the heroes of the story, who would be more benevolent masters.

That all said, it's just an interpretation. A lot of figuring out what the intended message of the series is going to be will rely on where it goes from here.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 02:37

Elotana: Dec 12, 2003; and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

Ahahahahaha the Goofy Movie song

I wish they'd gotten ShinigamiEater to do Armin but overall it's great

# ? Nov 14, 2013 02:43

Soulcleaver: Sep 25, 2007; Murderer

I like the part where little dudes fight big dudes and sometimes it's a big dude fighting another big dude. :shrug:

# ? Nov 14, 2013 04:50

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Soulcleaver posted:

I like the part where little dudes fight big dudes and sometimes it's a big dude fighting another big dude.

Typical lumpenprole ignorance.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 04:54

usenet celeb 1992: Jun 1, 2000; he thought quoting borges would make him popular

Winky posted:

I don't think the world of Shingeki conflicts with the idea of an idealized past: but the past they're idealizing is the one that predates the appearance of the titans. The government inside the wall is shown to be corrupt and society is shown to be outwardly peaceful but inwardly degenerating, and to a large degree this is blamed on the complacency of the people within the wall who are unwilling to face the horrors outside and a lack of strength and willpower in the ruling elite.

I choose to read this (and all of AoT) as, first and foremost, an extended metaphor of growing up and generational conflict: the idealism of youth pushing back against the compromises of an adult world that has lost the capacity to dream. The political angle is secondary to this, in my view (though interesting to read). Isayama's done a great job so far in showing how various characters, young and old, critique and react to the system in their own way, without coming across as favoring any one ideology as the "right" way.

I do hope we see bowl-cut Imperial Police guy again, to see how his views may have evolved lately. Assuming he didn't die along the way or Isayama didn't forget about him.

# ? Nov 14, 2013 05:07

Scruffy the janitor: Dec 31, 2007; A greater tragedy my eyes have never beheld

tlarn posted:

I thought they were horning it in when the Shadow of the Colossus music came on. Made it up with Brock Lesnar's theme for the Armored Titan though; I kinda hoped they keep using WWE themes for those characters that can turn into titans and back, but then I got the Inception bwoooomp instead of Cult of Personality. As far as abridged series go, it's pretty alright.

The Lesnar theme is specifically because the armored titan's look is actually inspired by Brock.

I also loved the ~hello darkness my old friend~. If that's an AD reference that's pretty awesome.

# ? Nov 15, 2013 00:04

Saagonsa: Dec 29, 2012

So, I've been thinking about it a lot, and you know what I'm wondering? Why don't they just build giant robots to combat the titans? I mean, they already have the tech to make the 3DMG, why not put some effort researching tech which would allow any solder the power that Eren has? Shingeki no Kyojin would be a lot better with robots, in my opinion.

Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Nov 16, 2013

# ? Nov 16, 2013 02:57

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

So you want Pacific Rim but with giant humans and actually being an anime?

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:02

Angry Walrus: Aug 31, 2013; Quinn it
to
Win it.

I see no problems with this.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:05

satanic splash-back: Jan 28, 2009

Captain Pissweak posted:

So you want Pacific Rim but with giant humans and actually being an anime?

That sounds more interesting than Pacific Rim. I couldn't get into it because of the weird 2-person mech thing. I never really grasped exactly what the point of having a second person as a link between the robot and human. At least this show doesn't resort to bullshit jargon to introduce a sidekick character.

This would be like Pacific Rim without the bullshit, so that sounds pretty a-ok.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:08

LeafyOrb: Jun 11, 2012

Pickled Kittens posted:

That sounds more interesting than Pacific Rim. I couldn't get into it because of the weird 2-person mech thing. I never really grasped exactly what the point of having a second person as a link between the robot and human. At least this show doesn't resort to bullshit jargon to introduce a sidekick character.

This would be like Pacific Rim without the bullshit, so that sounds pretty a-ok.

Wait so you have problems with two people driving one mech, but people who can summon meat giants out of nowhere is okay?

I do not understand you at all.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:14

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

Pickled Kittens posted:

That sounds more interesting than Pacific Rim. I couldn't get into it because of the weird 2-person mech thing. I never really grasped exactly what the point of having a second person as a link between the robot and human. At least this show doesn't resort to bullshit jargon to introduce a sidekick character.

This would be like Pacific Rim without the bullshit, so that sounds pretty a-ok.

They explained that at the beginning with some pretty simple pseudoscience though (left half of brain controls one half of the body and vice versa, therefore we'll use two brains for controlling these giant robots).

This isn't the Pacific Rim thread though so I'll not get all :spergin:

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:20

Soulcleaver: Sep 25, 2007; Murderer

Saagonsa posted:

So, I've been thinking about it a lot, and you know what I'm wondering? Why don't they just build giant robots to combat the titans? I mean, they already have the tech to make the 3DMG, why not put some effort researching tech which would allow any solder the power that Eren has? Shingeki no Kyojin would be a lot better with robots, in my opinion.

It's implied that the inner city is keeping the populace dumbed down and titan-killing methods inefficient so no one disrupts the status quo. Censoring old knowledge, shunning people who show interest in the outside world, denying the scouting legion better weapons and technology. Look how badly they get slaughtered even with their fancy zipline flying gear.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:27

Jackard: Oct 28, 2007; We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

GOT A EXTRA TITTY posted:

That sounds more interesting than Pacific Rim. I couldn't get into it because of the weird 2-person mech thing. I never really grasped exactly what the point of having a second person as a link between the robot and human. At least this show doesn't resort to bullshit jargon to introduce a sidekick character. This would be like Pacific Rim without the bullshit, so that sounds pretty a-ok.

Why does it take more than one person to fly a 747, :downs:

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:33

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Jackard posted:

Why does it take more than one person to fly a 747,

It's not as if most tanks have several people in them covering different jobs or anything...

# ? Nov 16, 2013 03:38

Elotana: Dec 12, 2003; and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

Yeah but I control all kinds of complicated things with just my Dual Shock :smuggo:

# ? Nov 16, 2013 04:25

The Duke of Butts: Aug 9, 2008; by Ralp

You guys might be interested to know that the original SnK oneshot has recently been translated. And, hoo boy, is the art something to look at.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/206616/shingeki-no-kyojin_ch00_by_kike/2

# ? Nov 16, 2013 05:29

Jackard: Oct 28, 2007; We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

The Duke of Butts posted:

You guys might be interested to know that the original SnK oneshot has recently been translated. And, hoo boy, is the art something to look at.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/206616/shingeki-no-kyojin_ch00_by_kike/2

Wait. Was Eren originally a girl?

# ? Nov 16, 2013 05:34

Genocyber: Jun 4, 2012

The Duke of Butts posted:

You guys might be interested to know that the original SnK oneshot has recently been translated. And, hoo boy, is the art something to look at.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/206616/shingeki-no-kyojin_ch00_by_kike/2

Wow that is so terrible. Kinda amazed that AoT turned out as well as it has, now.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 05:40

Squidster: Oct 7, 2008; ✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤

It's kind of inspiring how much he's improved since then. Thanks for linking it!

# ? Nov 16, 2013 05:54

Szmitten: Apr 26, 2008

I don't think it's bad per se, just really sketchy.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 13:15

Democratic Pirate: Feb 17, 2010

Captain Pissweak posted:

So you want Pacific Rim but with giant humans and actually being an anime?

At the end of this arc, it's revealed that the inner city has these robots that can slaughter titans easily, making Eren's command of them pretty worthless. So Mikasa and Levi go in and steal the plans to make the robots. They then discover the robots can be scaled up in size easily, making it possible to make a human-controlled titan controlling a robot.

# ? Nov 16, 2013 19:55

Tykero: Jun 22, 2009

Then they combine the human-controlled titan-controlled robots into a giant multi-human-controlled-titan-controlled robot and

# ? Nov 17, 2013 02:21

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Tykero posted:

Then they combine the human-controlled titan-controlled robots into a giant multi-human-controlled-titan-controlled robot and

The last episode is going to have titan-titans throwing galaxies at each other.

# ? Nov 17, 2013 02:24

DeusExMachinima: Sep 2, 2012; This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!

Put this loser on ignore immediately!

re: oneshotchat. In TV pilot episodes are usually below par so why would manga be different?

Jackard posted:

They did a decent job on this, especially liked 5:03 and the SotC music when Hannes showed up. Much better than the awful Hellsing Abridged.

The Mikasa vacation backstory at the one minute mark was hilarious. And then the third guy showed up!

Not that any of this matters since you think Hellsing Abridged is lame and thus you are already dead inside.

# ? Nov 17, 2013 03:24

Saagonsa: Dec 29, 2012

People taking my jokepost seriously aside (seriously, robots? c'mon I'm not that dumb)

The Duke of Butts posted:

You guys might be interested to know that the original SnK oneshot has recently been translated. And, hoo boy, is the art something to look at.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/206616/shingeki-no-kyojin_ch00_by_kike/2

Wow, and here I thought his artistic improvement between chapter 1 and now was a big leap.

Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jan 13, 2014

# ? Nov 17, 2013 03:36

RyuujinBlueZ: Oct 9, 2007; WHAT DID YOU DO?!

change my name posted:

The last episode is going to have titan-titans throwing galaxies at each other.

I'd be okay with that, but then I'm of the opinion that more shows should end with galaxies being thrown at things.

# ? Nov 17, 2013 04:15

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

The only thing good about that one-shot is it was probably the inspiration for Sam's Gun Sword in Revengeance.

# ? Nov 17, 2013 04:43

Jackard: Oct 28, 2007; We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

DeusExMachinima posted:

Not that any of this matters since you think Hellsing Abridged is lame and thus you are already dead inside.

From what I remember, take the first season of DBZA and replace jokes with swearing. Had some funny bits ("like the Nazis?") but overall wasnt as good.

Jackard fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 17, 2013

# ? Nov 17, 2013 05:34

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 22:29

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

The Duke of Butts posted:

You guys might be interested to know that the original SnK oneshot has recently been translated. And, hoo boy, is the art something to look at.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/206616/shingeki-no-kyojin_ch00_by_kike/2

The origin of Sasha:

She does have something in her mouth, right?

# ? Nov 17, 2013 06:56

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Attack on Titan - Debasement Yourself and Face Bloodshed

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