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I'm watching this 1995 Misawa/Kobashi match and it made me think of a few questions: Q: I was trying to figure out who the face and heel were in the match, but what's the heel/face dynamic like in Japan?* Q: What are some Japan matches that have super hot/loud crowds? *On a related note, here's Brandon Stroud discussing how this dynamic works over in Mexico: http://www.uproxx.com/sports/2011/10/the-best-and-worst-of-wwe-hell-in-a-cell-2011/3/
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Nov 16, 2013 19:53
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Heel/Face isn't as well defined in Japan, because Japanese crowds will get behind a good wrestler, even if they're meant to be heels (See: Okada right now). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UClzX0Uo4Fk The crowd were hot as gently caress for this.
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Nov 16, 2013 19:59
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Nick_326 posted:Q: What are some Japan matches that have super hot/loud crowds? PLEASE ENJOY THE GREATEST TAG TEAM PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING MATCH OF ALL TIME. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KOvSvhxoRk Only just now discovering this match is in full. Was always clipped to something over 20 minutes. HulkaMatt fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 20:02
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Unless you're a dirty gaijin Irishman. Then you're heel as gently caress.
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Nov 16, 2013 20:03
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Nick_326 posted:Q: What are some Japan matches that have super hot/loud crowds? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4F27uFU4FQ
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Nov 16, 2013 20:06
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Nick_326 posted:I'm watching this 1995 Misawa/Kobashi match and it made me think of a few questions: 90s AJPW was pretty subtle with heel/face stuff, but broadly the Holy Demon Army led the native heel side and Misawa and Kobashi (and later Akiyama) were basically always faces. The occasional Misawa vs. Kobashi stuff through about 1997 or so would have been one of Baba's favorite storylines, the up and coming superstar face against the current The Guy face where the young guy would come closer and closer until he finally got his big win after a number of years. Typically in those matches the current guy worked subtle heel, but if memory serves in their earlier matches including that one, Kobashi worked subtle heel because Misawa was too over.
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Nov 16, 2013 20:35
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Gonzo McFee posted:Unless you're a dirty gaijin Irishman. Then you're heel as gently caress. They really only boo Devitt when he's outright cheating. They still get behind him when he's just doing cool stuff.
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Nov 17, 2013 02:28
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HulkaMatt posted:PLEASE ENJOY THE GREATEST TAG TEAM PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING MATCH OF ALL TIME. is it too late to nominate this for match of the year
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Nov 17, 2013 02:50
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Nut Bunnies posted:Who is the shithead that squealed on Storm is what I wanna know I've always had a softspot for Lance Storm because he's one of the few guys that shoots on the business, not because he's angry or has an opinion, but because he sees it in a very unbiased and real light. That probably made him Vince McMahon's worst enemy because he doesn't play politics and looks after himself and the business in a non-selfish way hence the "BORING!" gimmick.
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Nov 17, 2013 08:05
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Justin Godscock posted:I've always had a softspot for Lance Storm because he's one of the few guys that shoots on the business, not because he's angry or has an opinion, but because he sees it in a very unbiased and real light. That probably made him Vince McMahon's worst enemy because he doesn't play politics and looks after himself and the business in a non-selfish way hence the "BORING!" gimmick. He's on really good terms with the WWE, some of his opinions fit in nicely with what Vince wants the company to be right now.
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Nov 17, 2013 08:29
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Lance can simultaneously drive me nuts and make more sense than anyone during the same interview on the Observer and it always confounds me a bit. I do think he is still overrated in the ring, but his work is crisp if nothing else and I can see why he's made such a successful trainer.
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Nov 17, 2013 08:46
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Nick_326 posted:Q: What are some Japan matches that have super hot/loud crowds? The crowd is really into this one. All-japanese good girl Chigusa Nagayo vs the monster heel Dump Matsumoto, Hair vs Hair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G-Cv_HjSmw
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Nov 17, 2013 11:03
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Goddammit, why can't we have awesome hair matches like that in the US? gently caress waiting, we're going to attack each other with scissors and go for the hair right now.
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Nov 17, 2013 17:07
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DeathChicken posted:Goddammit, why can't we have awesome hair matches like that in the US? gently caress waiting, we're going to attack each other with scissors and go for the hair right now. When WWE did the Punk vs Rey feud they were hesitant to do a mask vs hair match because they thought that no one would want to see a match where they knew the winner. The company didn't/doesn't seem to understand that fans are buying the show to see the face win a match like that.
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Nov 17, 2013 20:54
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I watched some old ECW on TNN and to my surprise, I see PN News and as a heel! With a Cena-like promo. I've been around the world from Philly to Bombay If you come from Philly, you must be gay I'm PN News and I make the big bucks Everybody knows that Philly sucks Yo baby yo baby yo I said Yo baby yo baby yo What happened to him in the mean time? He was only seen in early 90s WCW and late 90s ECW...
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Nov 17, 2013 21:10
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budreck posted:What happened to him in the mean time? He was only seen in early 90s WCW and late 90s ECW...
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Nov 17, 2013 21:28
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Is "PN News" some kind of pun I can't get? I don't understand the name.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:55
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Halloween Jack posted:Is "PN News" some kind of pun I can't get? I don't understand the name. His real name is Paul Neu
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Nov 17, 2013 23:10
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I feel like its best explanation is "white people's understanding of hip hop culture in the late 80s/ early 90s".
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Nov 18, 2013 00:20
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There are some great PN News stories that I wish I could remember right now.
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Nov 18, 2013 00:22
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Glamorama26 posted:Lance can simultaneously drive me nuts and make more sense than anyone during the same interview on the Observer and it always confounds me a bit. Lance Storm is a lot like Spock (my favorite analogy). He's very intelligent and knowledgeable but logical and direct in his speech and his lack of emotional expression can be seen by others as "he's a dick". We all know a friend like this, they can "be a dick" without them knowing or understanding why but you find out he's a great friend as you can trust him more than anyone without worrying about drama or whatever. So, yeah, that's why Storm drives me nuts in interviews and shoots as well because he's so...detached in his speech and it's frustrating but when you listen to WHAT he is saying it makes so much sense and you respect him for it. Storm always understood the theory more-so than the practice. He's a perfect teacher because of that hence why he's done well as a trainer.
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Nov 18, 2013 05:27
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Reading some of these old stories and then comparing them to the corporate PG image WWE is portraying today reminds me exactly of how Times Square in NYC cleaned up its image from "wall to wall porn and hookers" to "Disney theme restaurants". Are there any recent stories of locker room bullshit, or is the carnie-ness backstage pretty toned down now?
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Nov 18, 2013 05:48
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MassRafTer posted:There are some great PN News stories that I wish I could remember right now.
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Nov 18, 2013 05:56
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sticklefifer posted:Reading some of these old stories and then comparing them to the corporate PG image WWE is portraying today reminds me exactly of how Times Square in NYC cleaned up its image from "wall to wall porn and hookers" to "Disney theme restaurants". There hasn't been any really bad stories coming out (when I say "bad" I mean "JBL circa 2005" bad for reference). When Bret Hart came back in 2010 (I know I've said this before) he remarked how boring the locker room is compared to his days in that everyone just plays video games or listens to their music with none of the craziness like the wrestlers hitting up the hotel bar after a show and raising hell. WWE is less like an old-school carny operation looking to protect the secrets of the business nowadays and more of a publicly traded company that only speaks via press releases from the PR division. That's not to say old habits aren't around just that the scumminess is coming from a different direction.
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Nov 18, 2013 06:02
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Justin Godscock posted:There hasn't been any really bad stories coming out (when I say "bad" I mean "JBL circa 2005" bad for reference). When Bret Hart came back in 2010 (I know I've said this before) he remarked how boring the locker room is compared to his days in that everyone just plays video games or listens to their music with none of the craziness like the wrestlers hitting up the hotel bar after a show and raising hell. I read that as "hitting up the hotel bar after the show and pissing in Flair's bed" quote:WWE is less like an old-school carny operation looking to protect the secrets of the business nowadays and more of a publicly traded company that only speaks via press releases from the PR division. That's not to say old habits aren't around just that the scumminess is coming from a different direction. There is still the "The Rock didn't shake my hand"  bullshit though.
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Nov 18, 2013 12:12
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LordPants posted:There is still the "The Rock didn't shake my hand" What incident was this?
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Nov 18, 2013 12:14
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The most famous occurrence was probably Mike Sanders getting fired because he didn't go shake Triple H's hand at the airport, supposedly because Triple H was injured and Sanders didn't see him sitting down.
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Nov 18, 2013 12:22
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Onmi posted:What incident was this? Naturally it didn't work out because The Rock's pretty well liked, he put over the talent on Twitter and interviews and even Punk, who was vocal about a 'part timer' coming in to get all the attention, made friends with him. Perigryn fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 12:58
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Perigryn posted:When The Rock came back, some people (possibly Triple H) threw a hissy fit over him not shaking hands with everyone and tried to induce a rep of him being 'too Hollywood to associate with the locker room', though truthfully it was because he had little time to spare as he was filming movies in the midst of his WWE appearances and had to get back on set by next morning, which is why they went with the "YOU LEFT US, DWAYNE! I'M HERE *EVERY* WEEK!" BS to try and make Cena look like he's the face. Speaking of the Cena vs Rock match, two questions. Did they always plan for the two matches at sequential Manias? Cause it seems weird they would set up the first one as "Once in a Life Time" and then go to make a second match. And if the plan wasn't to always have two, was the plan always to have Rocky go over? Also unrelated, the Cena vs Michaels 1 Hour match on Raw was due to Orton loving up and getting himself in trouble (thank you Orton). Does anyone remember what he did that time?
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Nov 18, 2013 13:16
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Perigryn posted:When The Rock came back, some people (possibly Triple H) threw a hissy fit over him not shaking hands with everyone and tried to induce a rep of him being 'too Hollywood to associate with the locker room', though truthfully it was because he had little time to spare as he was filming movies in the midst of his WWE appearances and had to get back on set by next morning, which is why they went with the "YOU LEFT US, DWAYNE! I'M HERE *EVERY* WEEK!" BS to try and make Cena look like he's the face. Rumors seemed to be that most of the stink towards the Rock was coming from people lower down the card than Triple H, as far as I remember from listening to Dave Meltzer talk about it on the radio. Dave was "appalled" that anyone would start poo poo with the Rock, since 1) The Rock has not needed WWE at all for many years now 2) The Rock doing a string of appearances did a lot of business 3) This weird attitude like the Rock has not paid his dues or something So what it really sounds like are guys who came in after the Rock's original run ended and didn't know poo poo, or were way up their own asses. It sounds like maybe Randy Orton or a particularly grouchy CM Punk. The Mike Sanders/Triple H thing is always described as "Mike Sanders just didn't see Triple H at the airport and Triple H killed his career out of petty spite" but this is apparently not accurate.
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Nov 18, 2013 13:32
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Onmi posted:Speaking of the Cena vs Rock match, two questions. Did they always plan for the two matches at sequential Manias? Cause it seems weird they would set up the first one as "Once in a Life Time" and then go to make a second match. As for Orton, well, he trashed a hotel room and got sent home.
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Nov 18, 2013 13:36
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Perigryn posted:Rock himself said that it was always 3 year plan: host Mania one year, beat Cena the next and put him over the third (because he needs it). Is Orton the biggest manchild in the WWE? He seems to come across that way.
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Nov 18, 2013 13:42
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Aurain posted:Is Orton the biggest manchild in the WWE? He seems to come across that way. Pretty much, there's an extensive list somewhere of all of Ortons stupidity. To be fair he had mostly mellowed out to "When someone botches a spot involving me I lose my poo poo" because he's extremely wary of his health. Notable incidents of that being Kennedy (Which wound up being the death knell for him, since most people didn't want to work with him) and Kofi.
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Nov 18, 2013 13:46
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Aurain posted:Is Orton the biggest manchild in the WWE? He seems to come across that way. He's a marine corps dropout, and the reason he had arm tattoos (that eventually became sleeves) was because he was covering up his corps tattoo. He routinely got into backstage trouble for a long time and has been so unable to shake PED (and occasional marijuana) problems that he's used up his three strikes and then some, and stays in the WWE by the good graces of being protected by Triple H, being a pretty good wrestler, and having a good look. Onmi posted:Pretty much, there's an extensive list somewhere of all of Ortons stupidity. To be fair he had mostly mellowed out to "When someone botches a spot involving me I lose my poo poo" because he's extremely wary of his health. Notable incidents of that being Kennedy (Which wound up being the death knell for him, since most people didn't want to work with him) and Kofi. I thought most of the thing with Kofi was just Kofi badly missing one cue, causing Orton to look stupid because there was no one in the ring to save a guy from his punt. Name Change fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 13:47
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By all accounts, Orton has mellowed in recent years and fixed his drug problem. He got popped for steroids again, but he's not causing trouble backstage or overdosing.
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Nov 18, 2013 13:58
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:By all accounts, Orton has mellowed in recent years and fixed his drug problem. He got popped for steroids again, but he's not causing trouble backstage or overdosing.
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Nov 18, 2013 14:15
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Didn't it come out later that a lot of the locker room animosity concerning the Rock was exaggerated to work the smarks since they were in that sort of mood shortly after the Punk 2011 angle?
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Nov 18, 2013 14:56
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In his defence, Kennedy almost seriously injured Orton and Orton was 100% justified in being angry about it. And IIRC, that was not the first time he hurt somebody in the ring.
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Nov 18, 2013 14:59
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El Gallinero Gros posted:In his defence, Kennedy almost seriously injured Orton and Orton was 100% justified in being angry about it. And IIRC, that was not the first time he hurt somebody in the ring.
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Nov 18, 2013 15:04
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ryback is the new kennedy (maybe a little safer than kennedy...but not by much)
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Nov 18, 2013 15:11
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