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HenessyHero posted:I remember there used to be idle conversations between crooks in AC lamenting how they just got their asses handed to them a few hours before by Bats and they seemed no worse for wear. You can assume Arkham Batman's moves are mostly just theatrical nightmare fuel if you like. Most of those are saying "Batman broke 3 ribs and my arm 6 months ago back in arkham asylum". Thugs wouldn't be that scared of him if he didn't break some bones. I thought they did a good job of showing the difference between mature Kevin Conroy batman in asylum/city who has this icy/calm demeanor while interrogating thugs ; he knows he can make them talk. In Origins he's far more aggressive and brutal, dropping them 30 feet down into Christmas trees.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:16
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Kaizer88 posted:Most of those are saying "Batman broke 3 ribs and my arm 6 months ago back in arkham asylum". Thugs wouldn't be that scared of him if he didn't break some bones. Pfft, broken ribs and dislocated arms are only terrible burdens in the context of the American Healthcare system for the uninsured.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:21
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HenessyHero posted:Pfft, broken ribs and dislocated arms are only terrible burdens in the context of the American Healthcare system for the uninsured. Batman is putting these criminals even deeper into debt, forcing them to work for psychopaths in order to stay afloat. It's a vicious cycle.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:30
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Kaizer88 posted:Most of those are saying "Batman broke 3 ribs and my arm 6 months ago back in arkham asylum". Thugs wouldn't be that scared of him if he didn't break some bones. I have to say how much I love the way his first meeting with the Penguin goes down in Origins. Just the way he comes forward relentlessly as Penguin is squawking,"NOW JUST HOLD ON A BLOODY MINUTE!" trying desperately to negotiate or give him pause, and Batman just hauls him up and flings him across the room, slams him around and shoves him face first into the ground.... and THEN asks his first question! It works for this young Batman, the older one is more in control which gives its own sense of effective menace, itself built on the years (decades?) of experience people now have that this guy does NOT gently caress around.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:36
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Jerusalem posted:I have to say how much I love the way his first meeting with the Penguin goes down in Origins. Just the way he comes forward relentlessly as Penguin is squawking,"NOW JUST HOLD ON A BLOODY MINUTE!" trying desperately to negotiate or give him pause, and Batman just hauls him up and flings him across the room, slams him around and shoves him face first into the ground.... and THEN asks his first question! Of course, if you can resist punching Penguin the gently caress out as Bruce Wayne in AC, you're a far better man than I.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:39
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I knocked a guy into a pit of toxic sludge in the sewers. He didn't even pop up as a skeleton in detective mode, I think he melted 
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Nov 18, 2013 02:43
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Wet Biscuit McGlee posted:I knocked a guy into a pit of toxic sludge in the sewers. He didn't even pop up as a skeleton in detective mode, I think he melted You've just created your own worst enemy.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:46
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Jerusalem posted:I have to say how much I love the way his first meeting with the Penguin goes down in Origins. Just the way he comes forward relentlessly as Penguin is squawking,"NOW JUST HOLD ON A BLOODY MINUTE!" trying desperately to negotiate or give him pause, and Batman just hauls him up and flings him across the room, slams him around and shoves him face first into the ground.... and THEN asks his first question! I always thought it was funny that Penguins bio mentions him being excellent at hand-to-hand combat. First time through I thought that would be a hint in a fight against him, but in that encounter Pengiun is definitely not excellent.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:53
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DrNutt posted:Of course, if you can resist punching Penguin the gently caress out as Bruce Wayne in AC, you're a far better man than I. Haha, never. I have never been able to resist walking over to him cowering by the gate and punching him in the face. After seeing the poo poo he pulled at the museum, I don't feel bad about it either! Edit: Speaking of AC, I don't play poker so I'm clueless, but Zsasz's story about the night he lost everything at The Iceberg Lounge... Penguin cheated to get that straight flush, right? Zsasz should have had all the 6s in the deck, right? Because I don't think Zsasz really quite understood what had happened to him. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 02:57
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Olaf The Stout posted:I always thought it was funny that Penguins bio mentions him being excellent at hand-to-hand combat. First time through I thought that would be a hint in a fight against him, but in that encounter Pengiun is definitely not excellent. That's more a case of Batman being so much better. Even a 600 year old super human master assassin who's drugged Batman to think he's facing multiple assailants is no match for the Bat. 
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Nov 18, 2013 02:58
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Jerusalem posted:Haha, never. I have never been able to resist walking over to him cowering by the gate and punching him in the face. After seeing the poo poo he pulled at the museum, I don't feel bad about it either! Right on the nose. Zsasz is an idiot, easily one of Batman's dumbest villains.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:04
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Olaf The Stout posted:I always thought it was funny that Penguins bio mentions him being excellent at hand-to-hand combat. First time through I thought that would be a hint in a fight against him, but in that encounter Pengiun is definitely not excellent. Penguin's gimmick has traditionally been that he's as clever at Bats but too much of a wreck to capitalize on it, he's only good at cqc in so far as a couple of a goons wouldn't be enough to take him down. I guess that's pretty good compared to rogues like the Riddler.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:04
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Coughing Hobo posted:Right on the nose. Zsasz is an idiot, easily one of Batman's dumbest villains. "Singleminded" is the nice term they apply in the comics, but yeah, Zsasz is a moron.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:05
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Wet Biscuit McGlee posted:I knocked a guy into a pit of toxic sludge in the sewers. He didn't even pop up as a skeleton in detective mode, I think he melted During Firefly's mission, I knocked a thug into the electrified fence and he just stood there, forever getting electrocuted. Even after I turned off the power.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:11
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Rookersh posted:"Singleminded" is the nice term they apply in the comics, but yeah, Zsasz is a moron. At least he's smarter than Croc.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:46
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Kaizer88 posted:That's more a case of Batman being so much better. Even a 600 year old super human master assassin who's drugged Batman to think he's facing multiple assailants is no match for the Bat. Eh maybe. In the cutscene penguin makes no effort to block or avoid Bats, and then gets handed the most epic uppercut Batman ever produced. Like, there's no one else in the entire series that Batman gloriously showboats a single-punch asswhipping like that. I wish the Riddler confrontation could have ended as spectacularly as Penguins.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:59
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I was about to excuse his asskicking in arkham city as just cowering and waiting for the inevitable, but: it was Bruce, not batman, who lay the beat down on him, who he ostensibly had no reason to fear (well, other than Bruce whupping his goons). If he was indeed a good hand to hand fighter he would have at least tried, right? And in arkham origins I'm presuming he's yet to learn a fear of the bat so that's not a good explanation either.
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Nov 18, 2013 04:18
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Terror Sweat posted:Batman is putting these criminals even deeper into debt, forcing them to work for psychopaths in order to stay afloat. I always figured that's why Batman was so brooding. He actively promotes a cycle of violence and disorder under the guise of fighting against it. Batman is the greatest villain of them all. He puts the world's most irredeemable people in a facility that breeds new psychos, reinforces old ones, and manages to consistently let it's inmates escape time after time. He knows he is responsible for so many deaths and could have prevented so much trauma and destruction in the world, he knows it isn't right but he's all hosed up in the head, so he broods.
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Nov 18, 2013 04:36
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Don't forget that dudes like the Joker can only find help to begin with because he pays like 5x more than the next highest bidder so an increasingly desperate criminal populace also becomes an ever escalating danger.
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Nov 18, 2013 04:45
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Was there ever any explanation as to why the Mad Hatter (not really sure if this is a spoiler, but whatever) didn't have any bones (like Clayface) in Origins?
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Nov 18, 2013 06:03
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Quine Connoisseur posted:Was there ever any explanation as to why the Mad Hatter (not really sure if this is a spoiler, but whatever) didn't have any bones (like Clayface) in Origins? Not that I know of, but you're probably safer in assuming it's a bug instead of an easter egg.
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Nov 18, 2013 07:23
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It's likely because it would require rigging and animating a custom skeleton model for a character his size. Do Penguin or Croc get skeletons?
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Nov 18, 2013 08:45
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HenessyHero posted:Penguin's gimmick has traditionally been that he's as clever at Bats but too much of a wreck to capitalize on it, he's only good at cqc in so far as a couple of a goons wouldn't be enough to take him down. I guess that's pretty good compared to rogues like the Riddler. See, and now I kind of want a playable Penguin DLC. He doesn't get all the same gadgets, but he has a trick umbrella. It can deflect bullets like Robin's shield in AC, it has three bullets that are instant kills, and the dodge animation turns the end into a helicopter that lets him make a quick escape. Maybe even go kind of old school and have one option be good old Penguin knock out gas for an area stun attack.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:05
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Terror Sweat posted:Batman is putting these criminals even deeper into debt, forcing them to work for psychopaths in order to stay afloat. No way...Someone should write a Batman story around this concept!! You know, since it's never been explored or anything. Still liking this game and not getting the bugs, grapple issues, countering problems, timing trouble or almost anything else people are complaining about. I think it's a fine game. Does anyone who thinks they nerfed the combat difficulty and timing and made it seem harder think that maybe that might have been intentional in order to convey that Batman is just starting out, still honing his chops and isn't just quite yet the bad rear end he's shown to be in City and Asylum? Whenever the combat feels harder in this one, I just hand wave it with that explanation in the back of my head ("Yeah, he's just getting started being Batman and still learning how to counter"). Sort of like the first couple of times Bruce ventures out in 'Batman Begins" and gets owned by everything. Also, who was the boss character you fight pretty early on that comes off like a blade swinging Ninja baddass, flipping and twirling knives around, back-flipping and talking poo poo and then Batman just drops him with one punch like Indiana Jones without the gun?, because I found the set up to that and the payoff to be rather clever. I can't recall a video game that gave you a a build up and a cut scene that suggested it was going to be some super boss/hard fight/better pause and go take a piss, grab a beer, hit the bong and then turned into a red herring/one shot kill like that.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:15
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BiggerBoat posted:No way...Someone should write a Batman story around this concept!! You know, since it's never been explored or anything. It happened in one of the Spiderman games (Spiderman 2, I think?) with Mysterio. I got a good chuckle out of that beat in Arkham Origins.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:17
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MeatwadIsGod posted:It happened in one of the Spiderman games (Spiderman 2, I think?) with Mysterio. I got a good chuckle out of that beat in Arkham Origins. I sort of thought it was a reference to the '89 movie when that little asian chap in the alleyway leaps about with the swords, making a big show and dance of it, and Batman slams him in the knackers. With a dedicated Bat-Knacker-Slamming device
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Nov 18, 2013 20:21
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MeatwadIsGod posted:It happened in one of the Spiderman games (Spiderman 2, I think?) with Mysterio. I got a good chuckle out of that beat in Arkham Origins. It was Spiderman 2, yeah. You face Mysterio in progressively more outlandish and elaborate fight scenarios and keep trouncing him, and he becomes more and more desperate and agitated. At the end you literally walk in on him trying to hold up a convenience store and the clerk is just making fun of him to his face since you beat him up on live television like 3 times already, and Mysterio starts losing it in a tantrum right before you literally walk up to him and punch him in the face. Spiderman 2 ruled. 
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Nov 18, 2013 20:25
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Heh, maybe. That scene in '89 Batman could have just been a callback to Indiana Jones.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:26
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BiggerBoat posted:Does anyone who thinks they nerfed the combat difficulty and timing and made it seem harder think that maybe that might have been intentional in order to convey that Batman is just starting out, still honing his chops and isn't just quite yet the bad rear end he's shown to be in City and Asylum? Whenever the combat feels harder in this one, I just hand wave it with that explanation in the back of my head ("Yeah, he's just getting started being Batman and still learning how to counter"). Sort of like the first couple of times Bruce ventures out in 'Batman Begins" and gets owned by everything. Well, you could, but that'd be dumb. I think they just hosed it up. (The fact that pressing LCtrl/Rclick to do a Ground Takedown only works about 70% of the time backs this up. Way too often I just keep doing a dinosaur walk.) redbackground fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 20:27
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redbackground posted:You can't have Batman hand the world's top assassins their asses over the course of a few hours but also have him consistently bamboozled by The Common Thug's standard punch. People keep saying WB Montreal hosed up the combat, but I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't think so. The only way it feels different from AA/AC to me is that counters seem to be more of an emphasis and the window to counter might be slightly smaller. Even so, that hasn't affected the combat in any noticeable way to me other than making it slightly more challenging, if anything.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:39
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Fuzz posted:It was Spiderman 2, yeah. You face Mysterio in progressively more outlandish and elaborate fight scenarios and keep trouncing him, and he becomes more and more desperate and agitated. At the end you literally walk in on him trying to hold up a convenience store and the clerk is just making fun of him to his face since you beat him up on live television like 3 times already, and Mysterio starts losing it in a tantrum right before you literally walk up to him and punch him in the face. You forget that they also had his life bar becomes like 4 times the length of a standard life bar too.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:39
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BiggerBoat posted:Still liking this game and not getting the bugs, grapple issues, countering problems, timing trouble or almost anything else people are complaining about. I think it's a fine game. Does anyone who thinks they nerfed the combat difficulty and timing and made it seem harder think that maybe that might have been intentional in order to convey that Batman is just starting out, still honing his chops and isn't just quite yet the bad rear end he's shown to be in City and Asylum? Whenever the combat feels harder in this one, I just hand wave it with that explanation in the back of my head ("Yeah, he's just getting started being Batman and still learning how to counter"). Sort of like the first couple of times Bruce ventures out in 'Batman Begins" and gets owned by everything. No, I definitely think they hosed it up, and probably not on purpose. I'm pretty good at Arkham Asylum and City - I can easily get a flawless 75+ combo in a big enough fight, but I was having problems with the timing in Origins. It seems to me like the counter button sometimes just doesn't loving work (not to mention the targeting problems - sometimes I'll be in the middle of a combo and try to move over to a different enemy and Batman will just stop dead in his tracks or fly into a wall or some poo poo), and given the insane amount of bugs that were (and still are) in the game, I'm more inclined to believe that it's simply just a buggy as gently caress game instead of handwaving it away with some bullshit explanation about Batman being younger and less experienced. I'd say that's probably one of my biggest gripes about Origins in general, actually: if anything, Batman seems more experienced than he did in the previous games because of the added gadgets and WayneTech upgrades like critical counters and poo poo. I realize that people probably would have complained if there weren't any new features and upgrades, but if the narrative is that Batman is less experienced, he should actually have less gadgets than Asylum and maybe an even less useful Detective Vision (and certainly not some sort of crazy holographic crime scene VCR). There are definitely ways to convey that this is a younger, rough-around-the-edges Batman, but loving up the fight system to the point where basic things like countering just don't work is not the way to do it.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:55
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MeatwadIsGod posted:People keep saying WB Montreal hosed up the combat, but I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't think so. The only way it feels different from AA/AC to me is that counters seem to be more of an emphasis and the window to counter might be slightly smaller. Even so, that hasn't affected the combat in any noticeable way to me other than making it slightly more challenging, if anything. Something is definitely up with the combat because the challenge rooms behave exactly like City while the combat in the storyline is a little different in terms of enemy attack timings and countering-time forgiveness. In City you can reliably (as Batman - timings are different for Catwoman, Robin, and Nightwing) counter 1 to 3 goons, get off 1 other attack of any type, then counter the next goon(s) who is attacking. This timing works much less often in Origins, leading to situations where you play like City and it works 50% of the time but the other 50% of the time you get hit in the head with a lead pipe, or you play it safe with counters and 50% of the time you just lose your combo due to inaction because the goons decided they were on City timing instead of Origins.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:26
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AngryBooch posted:Something is definitely up with the combat because the challenge rooms behave exactly like City while the combat in the storyline is a little different in terms of enemy attack timings and countering-time forgiveness. In City you can reliably (as Batman - timings are different for Catwoman, Robin, and Nightwing) counter 1 to 3 goons, get off 1 other attack of any type, then counter the next goon(s) who is attacking. This timing works much less often in Origins, leading to situations where you play like City and it works 50% of the time but the other 50% of the time you get hit in the head with a lead pipe, or you play it safe with counters and 50% of the time you just lose your combo due to inaction because the goons decided they were on City timing instead of Origins. I think people are just getting overwhelmed by the more aggressive enemies, to be honest. I've done every test I can think of on both challenge and regular maps and I'm just not seeing any timing differences. The idea that the combat system mysteriously changes from the challenge room to the main map is crazy, especially since the challenge rooms are literally where you do tutorials for things. If there is some sort of difference, it's a glitch, and one I haven't been able to replicate at all on the PS3. I really wish someone could document these things in some fashion because I really don't see them at all and every person who brings it up just talks about how it 'feels different' or claims you can't do things which I've been able to do regularly, which means it either has to be a bug which crops up in specific circumstances or... hell, I don't know. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 21:28
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Do I want to finish (read: start over again because I keep losing my save file ) Arkham City before picking up Origins, story-wise, or is the game pretty distinct?
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Nov 18, 2013 21:31
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ImpAtom posted:I think people are just getting overwhelmed by the more aggressive enemies, to be honest. I've done every test I can think of on both challenge and regular maps and I'm just not seeing any timing differences. The idea that the combat system mysteriously changes from the challenge room to the main map is crazy, especially since the challenge rooms are literally where you do tutorials for things. I'm getting 100+ combos going in the challenge rooms pretty frequently but I'm lucky if I can get to 20 out in the overworld. Something is different about enemy aggressiveness, it's not like I'm getting the yips stopping a crime in progress. This is the PC version by the way.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:32
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AngryBooch posted:I'm getting 100+ combos going in the challenge rooms pretty frequently but I'm lucky if I can get to 20 out in the overworld. Something is different about enemy aggressiveness, it's not like I'm getting the yips stopping a crime in progress. This is the PC version by the way. And I'm regularly getting 100+ combos in the overworld. Adjust your playstyle a little bit because, as you've already pointed out, the combat in the storyline is a little different. If trying to play it exactly like City isn't working, why would you keep trying to play it exactly like City?
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Nov 18, 2013 21:36
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I think the answer lies within enemy aggressiveness overall. Playing Asylum and City again, it is definitely noticeable that you simply have more time to hit people before you have to counter again. The most damning piece of evidence to me is that in the older games, I can knock someone down and do a ground takedown without always getting punched in the back of the head, where as in Origins, it is almost guaranteed that if I try to KO someone on the ground with even one other person still standing, I will be interrupted.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:37
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ToastyPotato posted:I think the answer lies within enemy aggressiveness overall. Playing Asylum and City again, it is definitely noticeable that you simply have more time to hit people before you have to counter again. The most damning piece of evidence to me is that in the older games, I can knock someone down and do a ground takedown without always getting punched in the back of the head, where as in Origins, it is almost guaranteed that if I try to KO someone on the ground with even one other person still standing, I will be interrupted. I've pulled off ground takedowns with people still up. It's mostly a matter of seeing if anyone is actually being aggressive before acting (since a moving enemy WILL hit you if you go for a Ground Takedown), which is the same way that I handled them in City/Asylum. I do agree that the enemies are more aggressive though. You have less time to breathe and need to be moving or responding more. Evading is more useful than ever, especially early on. On the other hand you have a lot more tools to counter that aggression. (Double takedowns/Shock gloves/the ability to remain in Freeflow Focus after using a single takdown/ect). My biggest problem is that I found those tools a little less interesting than the City ones. (Shock Gloves in particular) because they were, if anything, too powerful.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:40
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THE CHORSE posted:And I'm regularly getting 100+ combos in the overworld. Adjust your playstyle a little bit because, as you've already pointed out, the combat in the storyline is a little different. If trying to play it exactly like City isn't working, why would you keep trying to play it exactly like City? Because I played a lot of City and it's hard to change habits. It behaves the exact same way in Origins challenge rooms so the idea that the combat in the overworld is different for the sake of it instead of some glitch in this glitch-ridden game is kinda odd to me.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:41
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