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Laterbase posted:Except X3 really isn't fun. The idea of it is but the reality is holding down the SETA key and wrestling with bad menus while your space cash increases. Someone wrote this really great X3:TC intro post like 4 years ago here and it singe-handedly got me through the initial "oh hell what is all this poo poo" phase that had pushed me away on earlier attempts. Gave a good quick description of ship types, weapon types, good early goals, etc. I ended up playing the game for 125 hours and only spent probably 5 of those hours in SETA watching numbers. God damned Hub quest. Not even close to worth it.
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Nov 19, 2013 23:37
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Anyone have the no verbose computer problem in XRM in AP? Renamed the 00044 file as well but still nada.
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Nov 19, 2013 23:48
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There's nothing "fundamentally" wrong with rebirth. Just a lot of half finished stuff. A few extra menus and commands is pretty much all it needs. It took modders about 2 days to remove the need to visit stations so I'm pretty confident it will improve quickly. This reminds me of the Rome 2 thread. That terrible broken game that ruined the series but is now the best tw game to date by a long way. Took like 7 patches. People were screaming that the end was nigh though because of frame rates and some changes to the ui and a couple of balance issues.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:12
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Laterbase posted:There's nothing "fundamentally" wrong with rebirth. Just a lot of half finished stuff. A few extra menus and commands is pretty much all it needs. It took modders about 2 days to remove the need to visit stations so I'm pretty confident it will improve quickly. This reminds me of the Rome 2 thread. That terrible broken game that ruined the series but is now the best tw game to date by a long way. Took like 7 patches. People were screaming that the end was nigh though because of frame rates and some changes to the ui and a couple of balance issues. The "one ship" thing blows. The weird inship UI thing blows. Anything that involves people in the game blows. The highways are obnoxious. The minigames blow. The platforms blow. Yeah, a lot can be fixed and modders have already removed some of the biggest pain points and at some point it'll be Actually Playable between patches and mods but it doesn't mean we all feel like they spent a lot of time on poo poo previous series fans didn't want or care about. It just feels so much like one-step-forward-two-steps-back in almost every way and I seriously doubt the game is any more appealing to gamers that wouldn't bother to mod it anyway. I mean, the fact that Beelzebub's "how to make the game suck less" mod-list includes NESA - Never enter a station again and Shut_UP - Your character, and co-pilot, lose a lot of annoying dialog shows that to make the game better, you have to cut out giant portions that were at one time considered selling points of the game. Not that story was ever a selling point for X but they really seemed to want to push it this time pretty hard. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 00:20
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I'm trying really hard to play AP but even with tons of mods it's a joyless experience. I guess I will just wait for Rebirth to improve. At least it has potential to be fun.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:29
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The bonus pack is very out of date. I'd recommend picking out the included mods/scripts yourselves.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:37
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Zaphod42 posted:Oh get over yourself, this is one of the more insanely complicated games to develop and they're not exactly the biggest or most veteran game studio ever. Engineering is loving complicated, don't be a back seat game developer. Games are hard to make! Please forgive the fact that we're selling you an internal pre-alpha for 50USD a pop after running out of funds because we spent 7 years trying to start a new IP and produced absolutely fuckall to show for it. Why are you getting mad? This stuff is hard!  Get the gently caress over yourself, this is genuinely amateur hour stuff. Not only did they fumble on the technical aspects, they clearly mismanaged their funds and risked tanking their only brand for a quick cash-in. As a game developer and slightly competent businessperson, this is loving inexcusable. If I pulled any of the things Egosoft just did, I'd have a dozen people out for my blood and justifiably so. Did I mention that this is Egosofts one and only, singular brand? Because I think I should have mentioned that.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:06
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:
Not to mention they are absolutely a veteran studio. They've been in business since 1988 and regularly re-releasing an updated version of X since 1999. How is that not "Veteran" at this business I don't even. 
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Nov 20, 2013 01:11
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Vatek posted:It's not like your traders or the agents for your factories don't move when SETA is turned off. True, but they move at such a glacial pace that you would probably never see a return on your investment without using SETA for extended periods of time, certainly not compared to just running missions repeatedly or capping ships.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:14
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bloodychill posted:good points about what blows the thing is, they made a kids arcade game instead of making a game about being a spaceman, so yeah, I don't think there's an easy fix
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Nov 20, 2013 01:14
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So after a few days of silence I got back a no from steam for my refund, but it looks like they just put the bot on auto mode as it started pointing out trouble shooting tips for steam
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Nov 20, 2013 01:23
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ful posted:The bonus pack is very out of date. I'd recommend picking out the included mods/scripts yourselves. Did this just now, in case anyone might want it: APBonusPackUpdate ful fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 01:23
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Unimpressed posted:So you reckon the only way to improve the AI and/or add more flyable ships is to dump the whole code and start the game over. OK, got it. I have no idea what you're trying to say, but you clearly didn't get what I was trying to say so hey. Fixing the bugs and removing the annoyances leaves you with an empty shell of a game. Trading is pointless given that people have discovered easier ways to make a ridiculous amount of money. People in this thread have lamented the complete lack of useful and varied things to spend your money on. You cannot fly another ship. Combat AI is braindead. So, what I'm saying is: If they fix the bugs and performance issues, and remove the most egregiously annoying features, is there any game left to play? What would you tell someone to do in X:Rebirth to have fun? Because I've tried. But the combat is poo poo, the trading is pointless and bordering on self-harm, and as this point I don't even know what my other options are. What's Rebirth's USP? Space traffic jams? Exploration?
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Nov 20, 2013 01:23
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fugly posted:I have no idea what you're trying to say, but you clearly didn't get what I was trying to say so hey. That... sounds a lot like an X game to me... Beyond your first six million or so to buy a corvette, anything beyond that in X3 is fairly cosmetic, you can do most things with a sufficiently equipped Katana. Missions are always the most broken heaps of crap because you'd never do them otherwise, and the AI is not what you'd call inspired, they fly at you shooting, they waive off, they fly at you again. So is it too different or too similar?
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Nov 20, 2013 01:28
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OwlFancier posted:That... sounds a lot like an X game to me... The illusion of choice still matters - in X3 the act of setting up a trading empire is clearly fun for some (and it's a pretty cool concept), and being able to afford multiple ships you can fly is something to aim for and something that changes your gameplay. What am I missing about Rebirth that makes people hopeful it'll become a good game? What do people expect to be playing in 6 months or a year or whatever? A better-than-X3 trading empire game?
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Nov 20, 2013 01:36
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OwlFancier posted:That... sounds a lot like an X game to me... Yeah, you're pretty good at hitting the wrong-at-everything bingo. X:R basically took a lot of problems from X3, amplified them and then added entirely new ones. In X3, you could at have fleets doing things, capital ships existed and had a purpose, missions were bad rather than broken, etc. Or are you a gaming accelerationist who prefers no choice to the illusion of choice?
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Nov 20, 2013 01:36
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OwlFancier posted:That... sounds a lot like an X game to me... This is an asinine argument, I hope you realize. Beyond the fact that having the option to change aesthetics is nice, there is also more to actually do in X3:AP than in Rebirth. There's no contention there. The scale is massive, too. So you could have armies of semi-competent AI fighting for sectors while you command a legion of star fighters to do what you please with. The scope and the breadth of X3:AP is so much more apparent that it's really hard to justify switching to X:Rebirth. Seriously, I don't know who this game is for unless you're absolutely new. If you loved X3:AP, X:Rebirth probably does not appeal to you currently because there's nothing to do at the same level at X3:AP. If you loved Freelancer and thought X:Rebirth was going to be like that, well, Freelancer is so far much more enjoyable. If you're new to the series, I guess it's okay? If you can look away from the bugs, the performance issues, and some weird UI choices.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:38
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I regret not buying the X3 Terran War Pack when it was on sale. Thought I could wait for all the improvement of X Rebirth  At least the winter sale is around the corner.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:39
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Stevefin posted:So after a few days of silence I got back a no from steam for my refund, but it looks like they just put the bot on auto mode as it started pointing out trouble shooting tips for steam If you're in the uk and want to try again, mention the Distance Selling Regulations. You don't need a reason to ask for a refund in the 7 day period. i.imgur.com/GJ7Qf.png ^^ That guy got a refund as a result. There are similar European laws that apparently cover digital downloads. Does anyone know how to increase the sensitivity of the mouse past 100 in Rebirth?
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Nov 20, 2013 01:41
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fugly posted:The illusion of choice still matters - in X3 the act of setting up a trading empire is clearly fun for some (and it's a pretty cool concept), and being able to afford multiple ships you can fly is something to aim for and something that changes your gameplay. Well I haven't played it but going by the videos and what people have said in the thread, there's a decent amount of stuff you can do with sticking different bits on ships, and different crew members to give them different abilities, stations look cool but you can't build them yet because it's broken, so if it wasn't broken you could build cool stations. The sectors obviously have lots of visual variety to them, and the skunk itself has a lot of features that no ship in X3 had. I didn't find ships in X3 very interesting because they were stat upgrades, essentially. I didn't feel like I was flying a different ship, just a better set of guns with a camera strapped on. If you could get the game to throw a good variety of ships at you to fight, let you get your own up and running handily, got rid of the stupid trade mechanics and replaced them with a better interface, let you build stations properly, and removed some of the annoying bits like having to dock to do the most menial tasks and flying around to try and buy things and there being nothing available to buy. It sounds like what you'd end up with is a definite X-like game. The question is what you mean by 'better' I suppose, more X3 than X3? Probably not. Is that what everyone wants? Personally I'd rather not play X3 more than I already have. Something that hits the same notes as X3 but which remains definitely different from it would be appreciated. I'm not paying £40 for a buggy release, but I might pay £20 for a fixed up version, or less if it goes on a good sale.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:43
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ful posted:Did this just now, in case anyone might want it: APBonusPackUpdate Thanks champ, way to be a TEAM PLAYER!
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Nov 20, 2013 01:48
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OwlFancier posted:Well I haven't played it but going by the videos and what people have said in the thread, there's a decent amount of stuff you can do with sticking different bits on ships, and different crew members to give them different abilities, Nope. That's all marketing, there's basically fuckall customization in-game. OwlFancier posted:The sectors obviously have lots of visual variety to them, and the skunk itself has a lot of features that no ship in X3 had. I didn't find ships in X3 very interesting because they were stat upgrades, essentially. I didn't feel like I was flying a different ship, just a better set of guns with a camera strapped on. What the hell does the skunk do that X3 ships don't? You think X3 ships are numerical upgrades, but praise the loving skunk? In a game where you have 5 weapons with a handful of completely linear upgrade paths? I don't even understand how this is possible. OwlFancier posted:Something that hits the same notes as X3 but which remains definitely different from it would be appreciated. This isn't it and honestly can never be it unless they go back on >75% of the design decisions they've made. This is a game desperately trying to be Freelancer and failing.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:52
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Prince John posted:If you're in the uk and want to try again, mention the Distance Selling Regulations. You don't need a reason to ask for a refund in the 7 day period. Yeah I'm in Australia and our refund policy only covers physical goods and does not over rule any other rules
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Nov 20, 2013 01:55
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:Why are you getting mad? At this point you're just stacking the multiplier on the irony bonus.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:57
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rentilius posted:This is an asinine argument, I hope you realize. Beyond the fact that having the option to change aesthetics is nice, there is also more to actually do in X3:AP than in Rebirth. There's no contention there. The scale is massive, too. So you could have armies of semi-competent AI fighting for sectors while you command a legion of star fighters to do what you please with. The scope and the breadth of X3:AP is so much more apparent that it's really hard to justify switching to X:Rebirth. For me, playing X3 steadily became like standing in a very very large open field. I have complete freedom of choice to stand anywhere in the field I like, wearing any clothes I like, and playing with a football however I please. This is grand for a while but eventually I realise I'm in a big open field which is not terribly dissimilar wherever I stand, and there is only so much you can do with a football. What I ended up wanting was a smaller field but maybe with some trees in it, and a pond, and maybe a stick and a bit of string to play with too. Certainly the big open game is very impressive, but it started feeling very samey after a while. I have a definite feeling that if they released X4 and it was a graphical upgrade on X3, with streamlined mechanics and a bug-less launch. I'd buy it, play it, think 'this is a lot like X3' and then put it down again and go play something else. I would be unable to fault the technical quality of the game, because it would be very obviously X4, but... I don't really want to play X4 because I've spent half a decade playing X3. It's for the same reason I don't want to play the next call of duty, I played one through four, I don't need to keep playing up to eight or nine or whatever they're at now, decline into mediocrity notwithstanding. If X: Rebirth ends up in a technically competent state and they remove some of the more stupid design decisions like not letting you skip terrible dialogue, I'd buy it, play it, probably get a good number of hours out of it, and put it down, maybe pick it up later, maybe buy the sequel if it gets one and they show some improvement on the formula. But I absolutely do not want X4, X:R2 maybe, but not X4. I'd see no point in it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 01:58
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Hav posted:At this point you're just stacking the multiplier on the irony bonus. If he's not mad, I am. This game was expensive, and I somehow managed to not realise it was all set to be a complete poo poo-show. I'm genuinely trying to find out if there's anything salvageable from people who've put more hours in than I have.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:59
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Hav posted:At this point you're just stacking the multiplier on the irony bonus. I take it the smiley did not tip you off re: context.And for the record, I am mad. I apologize sincerely for having a shred of professional pride.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:00
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ful posted:Did this just now, in case anyone might want it: APBonusPackUpdate Hey, thanks! Sticking this in the OP.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:02
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fugly posted:I have no idea what you're trying to say, but you clearly didn't get what I was trying to say so hey. What I'm saying is pretty simple actually. X-Rebirth is flawed, but not fundamentally so. Each of your complaints is a "by-degree" complaint rather than "by-omission". Take your trading example. If they nerf the bullshit scanning loot and improve the trading interface, there is a still a trading game here to be had, rather than if they never added any trading into the game. Same for the ships you can fly. If they have one, and they fix the issues so it's fun to fly, how much harder would it be to add another one, something they at least claim they intend to do? Look, I'm very let down by this release. I pre-ordered and expect for a full price AAA game to get something working out of the box, not this pile of bugs. But I don't think the game is fundamentally flawed. I think all the stuff I like about X3 is there at a basic form (some very basic like the only one ship), but it's a basis for improvement that has the potential (and the likelihood) of getting there. This isn't me defending Egosoft. For a full price game I should be getting more than potential and likelihood. Writing this post reminded me of Combat Mission Shock Force. It launched full of bugs and was unplayable almost, but with time and many patches it became a great game. All the fundamentals were there, they were just so badly implemented it didn't look like it. But the devs made good on it.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:10
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fugly posted:If he's not mad, I am. This game was expensive, and I somehow managed to not realise it was all set to be a complete poo poo-show. I'm genuinely trying to find out if there's anything salvageable from people who've put more hours in than I have. Likewise, I'm also an owner of this game, also in the same pit as everyone else, but instead of constantly mashing off egosoft I'm waiting for a silver lining. I already have AP, so that's an option while I wait and keep my eye on the news. If you haven't had your onetime Steam refund, you could try customer support. If you keep talking about the quality of the game at release and link to the forum threads indicating the problems, you'll probably get it. I was offered it for SotS II, but waited for the Paradox-backed refunds to kick off. I'm US based. GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:And for the record, I am mad. I apologize sincerely for having a shred of professional pride. You can't have professional pride or otherwise in someone else's work, and WE GET YOU ARE MAD. The poo poo spiral has no end. Christ, if I started in with the professional pride every time there was a database leak, I'd be shooting up heroin through my eyeballs. Relax, we're all friends here, and it's loving disappointing to get something like Rebirth, but I'm cautiously optimistic that egosoft will either fix the bugs or leave the door open enough for others to fix it. Compare and contrast to XCOM: The Bureau. Developer was shut down on release and that's your lot. The thing that's really annoying is that Steam basically allows this poo poo to go on, rather than raising a bar in quality. These are the guys that broke the pricing cartel, it feels like they should be tackling some of the poo poo they have to deal with after the sale. Anyhoo, I don't blame anyone for being pissed at something and I'm certainly not defending any of it, or getting into the weird gainsaying about the features of one thing or another. If nobody better has done a thread by tomorrow, I might put something together. X3:AP and X:rebirth ARE entirely different games.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:21
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The true stillbirth is this thread. We get it, you don't like X:Rebirth and you're justifiably upset that they shipped a buggy arguably lovely piece of software. Moving on.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:54
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I don't know if I just have a long memory or what, but X:Rebirth has nothing on Reunion at launch (and I bought both at launch because I have more money than sense). Rebirth has a lot of flaws, yes, but beyond some hardware issues, they seem easily addressed within months (autopilot, trade commands, etc) or are otherwise rooted in the preconception that the game should've just been X4: X3 Harder. Reunion on the other hand was a loving disaster at launch. It was massively broken, some ships were missing models entirely (particularly the Teladi Osprey, which used the model for the Boron Hydra instead), and even after a lot of the scripting issues were fixed, it still played like garbage prior to Terran Conflict's big overhauls. Here's the thing: beyond the traditional bad Ego launch, I think Rebirth just rubs X fans the wrong way because we're just so used to the same underlying gameplay that's been around since X-Tension. I mean, going back to an earlier poster saying that memorizing hotkeys in AP was more intuitive to them than the radial menu system; I have a ton of hotkeys memorized too, but that's because I've been playing these drat things since X2. From an outside perspective, having to memorize a textbook's worth of keyboard commands just to do anything is kind of insane. Rebirth, on the other hand, feels like Freelancer with some extra complexity bolted on and much shittier writing and acting, which I frankly like. Yes, it's buggy as poo poo, but when it comes down to tooling around big open explorable areas, Rebirth has definitely got the cookie-cutter garbage of X3 and onward beat handily. Honestly, there's space in my library for both games equally, they just fill two different niches. AP is my empire building game, Rebirth is my putter about in a cool spaceship game. DISCLAIMER: I also preordered Sword of the Stars II like an idiot, so this launch is downright pleasant in comparison.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:57
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3 posted:I don't know if I just have a long memory or what, but X:Rebirth has nothing on Reunion at launch (and I bought both at launch because I have more money than sense). Rebirth has a lot of flaws, yes, but beyond some hardware issues, they seem easily addressed within months (autopilot, trade commands, etc) or are otherwise rooted in the preconception that the game should've just been X4: X3 Harder. Reunion on the other hand was a loving disaster at launch. It was massively broken, some ships were missing models entirely (particularly the Teladi Osprey, which used the model for the Boron Hydra instead), and even after a lot of the scripting issues were fixed, it still played like garbage prior to Terran Conflict's big overhauls. I admit I am also made a little optimistic by Rome 2, which was apparently a catastrophe comparable to the fall of Rome itself on launch, yet after about three patches in as many weeks, it become playable, and now is frankly very enjoyable. I am wary of doomsaying this early on in a release, especially given egosoft has a habit of supporting games for years and seemingly are pleased with sales so they are presumably not going to sink into the ocean anytime soon.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:05
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I'm still optimistic for this game, and in the meanwhile I can enjoy the soundtrack. Which I think is excellent.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:08
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What is this XRM that everyone is talking about? Forgive me I haven't played X3 in a very long time. (I'm also wondering what version to buy on steam)
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Nov 20, 2013 03:08
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Ice Fist posted:What is this XRM that everyone is talking about? Forgive me I haven't played X3 in a very long time. X Rebalance Mod. It's a pretty big overhaul and adds a lot of new ships that fit in pretty well with the vanilla aesthetic. There's some weird design decisions packed in, though, like making all previously ammo-based weapons into energy-based weapons, but there's been a lot of care taken to make it fit in with the TC/AP design ethos up to some creative wrangling of hacked voice files to make Betty say the name of almost every added ship and sector.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:12
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So I need a script that adds fixing docking computers to size S and jump drives to size S. This jump drives to size XL is plain silly. I like other things about XRM. but this is dicks.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:19
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3 posted:I don't know if I just have a long memory or what, but X:Rebirth has nothing on Reunion at launch (and I bought both at launch because I have more money than sense). Rebirth has a lot of flaws, yes, but beyond some hardware issues, they seem easily addressed within months (autopilot, trade commands, etc) or are otherwise rooted in the preconception that the game should've just been X4: X3 Harder. Reunion on the other hand was a loving disaster at launch. It was massively broken, some ships were missing models entirely (particularly the Teladi Osprey, which used the model for the Boron Hydra instead), and even after a lot of the scripting issues were fixed, it still played like garbage prior to Terran Conflict's big overhauls. It isn't just that their design choices are different than previous games, it's that their design choices are bad. Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:So I need a script that adds fixing docking computers to size S and jump drives to size S. This jump drives to size XL is plain silly. You should be able to use it without CODEA since it only changes those two things.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:22
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Inverness posted:I disagree on some parts. What rubs me and many others here wrong about X:R isn't just that it is different, but that it has many features that are unfinished, pointless, gimmicky, or all of the above. For example, looting containers and lockers, ducts in stations, the entire walking in stations feature, the highway speed minigame. All of these things get old really fast. It seems like effort was wasted on these things when it could have been devoted to the core spaceships aspect of the game that people really care about. It's like they sat around a table and through of random things to put in the game to make it feel different than previous games, but didn't wonder what the point was or if they should bother. It only does the docking computer, not the jump drive apparently.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:28
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Your best option would probably be to pry open the cat/dat files and change the size of the jump drive there.
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Nov 20, 2013 04:49
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