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Cardboard Box A posted:The origin of Sasha: A potato of course. So I just finished watching the anime, exactly where does that leave me in the manga? I really don't feel like going through a bunch of stuff that's already happened.
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Nov 17, 2013 09:05
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Feeble posted:So I just finished watching the anime, exactly where does that leave me in the manga? I really don't feel like going through a bunch of stuff that's already happened. Start at chapter 33, you'll be rereading the Eren vs. Annie fight, but it slightly deviates from the anime at the end. Also, don't read this thread until you're done! Nobody tags anything and you will be spoiled.
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Nov 17, 2013 09:18
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Saagonsa posted:Start at chapter 33, you'll be rereading the Eren vs. Annie fight, but it slightly deviates from the anime at the end.
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Nov 17, 2013 09:25
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Wow, Isayama's first one shot looks almost like it was drawn by the original author of OnePunch Man. He's improved so much!!
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Nov 17, 2013 15:31
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Hiring assistants that actually know how to draw makes a big difference.
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Nov 17, 2013 16:44
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Still manages to get the idea across well, but yeah, actually working on being good at that instead of just kinda banging out whatever you can clearly worked out well for him (also the competent assistants thing). I wonder how much of that oneshot should be taken into the realm of SnK speculation? I'm leaning toward "none," since it seems like it lays a rather different premise completely bare... But then there are some shared elements, obviously, since it was sort of the seed of SnK as we have it now. I dunno. "Scientists and religious types caused bad things to happen" is basically stock manga backstory, and the realized manga seems to be putting a lot more nuance into the plot than that, even if it ends up being ~basically the same, with the wall cult and the one science guy we've met so far (Eren's dad) capable of turning his kid into a titan... Agreed fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 20:35
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Agreed posted:Still manages to get the idea across well, but yeah, actually working on being good at that instead of just kinda banging out whatever you can clearly worked out well for him (also the competent assistants thing). At the very least, Isayama has stated that the nature of the titans is now very different from his original plans in the prototype.
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Nov 17, 2013 23:58
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Can't wait til they have this scene with everyone freaking out in English, they did a great job making the forest segment chilling. The music almost reminds me of Jaws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LJSbEBBpuM Jackard fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 19:56
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Nothing will ever be funnier than 5:52 again, I'm at work drat it stop making me laugh.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:22
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Jackard posted:Can't wait til they have this scene with everyone freaking out in English, they did a great job making the forest segment chilling. The music almost reminds me of Jaws.
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Nov 19, 2013 07:39
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GOT A EXTRA TITTY posted:That sounds more interesting than Pacific Rim. I couldn't get into it because of the weird 2-person mech thing. I never really grasped exactly what the point of having a second person as a link between the robot and human. At least this show doesn't resort to bullshit jargon to introduce a sidekick character. If you can't understand the heavy handed symbolism in the movie of "people working together" going down to the robots themselves being piloted by two people in tandem then I think that even giant robot movies are too complex for you to appreciate.
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Nov 19, 2013 10:46
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 http://rinatan.tumblr.com/post/67296342276
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Nov 20, 2013 16:36
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Why didn't Eren just kill the Santa Claus titan and then save Armin when it vaporized? That's what I would have done.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:21
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Fister Roboto posted:Why didn't Eren just kill the Santa Claus titan and then save Armin when it vaporized? That's what I would have done. Eren had just had one leg chomped off by a jumping titan, and the impact of the leg-chomping sent him sliding across several houses' worth of roof-tiles, which further bruised and battered him. He was in no condition whatsoever to fight a Titan at that time.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:36
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Titans also like to sometimes chew bits off of their prey. Not everyone gets swallowed whole. Hell, even Eren didn't, he lost an arm.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:38
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JosephWongKS posted:Eren had just had one leg chomped off by a jumping titan, and the impact of the leg-chomping sent him sliding across several houses' worth of roof-tiles, which further bruised and battered him. He was in no condition whatsoever to fight a Titan at that time. If he was in good enough condition to jump into Santa Claus's mouth and grab Armin, he was in good enough condition to kill Santa Claus first. e: also why was Santa Claus the only titan with facial hair? Do all the other titans shave every morning? Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 06:49
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I don't think it's as easy to maneuver on the 3D gear when one of the necessities to use the drat things properly is you need to have two functioning legs to aim them.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:50
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Also, given that no titan kill we've seen is followed by a shower of partly-eaten dudes, I assume that a titan's death flash-fries all its stomach contents. EDIT: It probably smells terrible.
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Nov 21, 2013 07:01
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Squidster posted:Also, given that no titan kill we've seen is followed by a shower of partly-eaten dudes, I assume that a titan's death flash-fries all its stomach contents. That part is incorrect though. When Eren had slipped down the Titan's esophagus into its stomach, there was still one dude there who was still only half-dead and calling out for his mama.
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Nov 21, 2013 07:10
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That was pre-kill, though. Everytime we've seen a member of the RC swoop down and napeknife a nudie, the Titan collapses, dissolves into smoke and leaves a comically misshapen skeleton. Everything it ate gets vaporized away with its flesh.
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Nov 21, 2013 07:17
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Fister Roboto posted:If he was in good enough condition to jump into Santa Claus's mouth and grab Armin, he was in good enough condition to kill Santa Claus first. 
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Nov 21, 2013 13:35
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From CubeWatermelon's blog:  EDIT: What do you guys think about the overall tone of this series? Pessimistic or optimistic? I've been having this conversation with a friend of mine as of late, and he seems to think that the series is depressing and headed towards a tragic ending. I think he's wildly misreading it, however, because I see it as a dark and realistic, but ultimately hopeful. I think there'll be a good ending, where Eren and humanity overcomes the Titans eventually, because the story has been generally one of gradual advancement and progress. Even though there's been setbacks, humanity seems to progress forwards overall. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 15:53
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Eh, I think it's pretty clearly meant to be about the necessity of fighting and heroism of sacrifice. The pain of loss is sort of given a couple of panels and then they move onto the next bit pretty quickly. It's a bad situation, so bad things happen, but it's quite consistently implied that things would be worse if not for the willingness of the human weapons to throw themselves into the jaws of death. The themes don't really vary much. You can't rely on shounen spirit alone, but with good planning and the will to carry things through, humanity can carve out small victories against overwhelming threats. What I'm curious about are the motives of the faction that plots against the wall. The agents in the 104th seem remorseful about the killing, but don't seem to doubt the necessity of their actions. So presumably there actually is some kind of "good" reason to murder all those people, that can convince a person with Reiner's character. That's a fascinating question to ponder--and it's tied in with a number of other questions in addition to the more well-known ones (what are the titans, etc.), about what the society in the walls actually is, and how they got there.
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Nov 22, 2013 16:18
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this allusion meant posted:What I'm curious about are the motives of the faction that plots against the wall. The agents in the 104th seem remorseful about the killing, but don't seem to doubt the necessity of their actions. So presumably there actually is some kind of "good" reason to murder all those people, that can convince a person with Reiner's character. That's a fascinating question to ponder--and it's tied in with a number of other questions in addition to the more well-known ones (what are the titans, etc.), about what the society in the walls actually is, and how they got there. I think "the heroism of sacrifice" is something of a minor deconstruction though. Many times throughout the manga, a character will sacrifice themselves to save others, but it's pointed out right before their miserable and horrible end that they are ultimately afraid to die. The only character I can think of that was straight up defiant to the end was a random scout who boasted that humans would kill the titans, as he was being devoured. Even a veteran like Mike is turned into a screaming and sobbing mess as he's dying. My take on Reiner is his faction raised all three of the infiltrators to see the humans in the wall as some irredeemably evil people ("Annie you need to hate the world"), and when they became friends with the 104th they all realized the extent of their crimes. I think when Annie was apologizing to the regurgitated corpses, that was her big reality check. That's just my take on it- but I think you're right, because for some reason there is a "need" to keep the titans a secret. Pastor Nick implied it's more important to keep the secret than to save humanity in his conversation with Zoe. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 18:00
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I think "the heroism of sacrifice" is something of a minor deconstruction though. Many times throughout the manga, a character will sacrifice themselves to save others, but it's pointed out right before their miserable and horrible end that they are ultimately afraid to die. The only character I can think of that was straight up defiant to the end was a random scout who boasted that humans would kill the titans, as he was being devoured. Even a veteran like Mike is turned into a screaming and sobbing mess as he's dying. quote:My take on Reiner is his faction raised all three of the infiltrators to see the humans in the wall as some irredeemably evil people ("Annie you need to hate the world"), and when they became friends with the 104th they all realized the extent of their crimes. I think when Annie was apologizing to the regurgitated corpses, that was her big reality check.
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Nov 22, 2013 21:38
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this allusion meant posted:I read that as being part of the thing where humans are weak. The story tries to emphasize that one a lot as well. There's only a few strengths, and few people have more than a few kinds, but together they're sort of making it work. I don't think a silly concept of heroism where you put on a brave face as you die is necessarily part of upholding sacrifice as a value. See that right there is why I'm pretty sure SnK is not a fascist story. We're already more than halfway through the story, and the tone is very clearly "war is hell" and that in the face of death people break down. We would've seen a lot more romanticism and typical shonen "great sacrifice" stuff if it was fascisistic.
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Nov 22, 2013 22:40
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Nelson Mandingo posted:My take on Reiner is his faction raised all three of the infiltrators to see the humans in the wall as some irredeemably evil people ("Annie you need to hate the world"), and when they became friends with the 104th they all realized the extent of their crimes. I think when Annie was apologizing to the regurgitated corpses, that was her big reality check. In any case, I think it's pretty clear there's something deeply messed up going on inside the walls. The relationship between the wall religion and the society's power structure, and between the religion and the titans, are both hinted at in dark overtones. There could very well be some reason to destroy them. Possibly the walls are actually there to provide a huge number of human shields protecting the forces in the center from enemies who were deterred by them until it was too late to keep putting it off? visceril posted:See that right there is why I'm pretty sure SnK is not a fascist story. We're already more than halfway through the story, and the tone is very clearly "war is hell" and that in the face of death people break down. We would've seen a lot more romanticism and typical shonen "great sacrifice" stuff if it was fascisistic. Broadly speaking, the concept of fascism is used in mutually contradictory senses by almost every political grouping in the modern era, and moreover, they almost all seem to find it beneficial from the standpoint of propagandizing their viewpoint to be imprecise in their usage of the concept. Therefore the general picture of it that one absorbs in the west is sort of muddled and useless. It must be specified what definition and analysis of fascism one uses, and which historical phenomena are grouped within that category, before a discussion about it really becomes coherent, which, as a result of all this baggage, typically takes far longer to hash out than simply discussing the constituent properties of one's definition of fascism directly, without organizing them into a grouping that may or may not have much explanatory power on its own. So I don't make much use of the term myself, and certainly not while talking about cartoons and comics. I do think that the story is very clearly saying that military sacrifices are an important thing that have to be made, and that the scouts are doing a good thing in being willing to face death and the terror of the titans. If we consider that a fascist value (I don't, because how the gently caress was fascism defeated if not by upholding that value), surely a softer portrayal of how humans break in battle makes it more effective at pushing that value--if we feel we are more resistant to the terror, we feel the duty to defend our weaker comrades, if we feel our vulnerability to the terror, it is intolerable to imagine that terror reaching those we treasure who are weaker still (I'm recalling Pixis addressing this directly). Similarly, the other messages, which may be considered militaristic, are built not on the idea that humans are natural warriors, but on the idea that we have to fight, even if we are weak in our flesh and weak of heart. That's considerably more effective, at least as far as reaching more typical audiences goes.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:14
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The weirdly fascistic thing that strikes me is the setting. The semi-idealized pastoral life combined with advanced military technology (3DMG)? That stands out to me and I can't get it to fit in many other boxes.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:20
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I'm not really sure what you mean. The pastoral life doesn't seem unusual as far as anime goes and the 3DMG has a pretty clear explanation and role in the story. Why does it have to correspond to a late-industrial era ideology box?
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Nov 23, 2013 02:26
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Personally, I like the part where the dudes do cool stuff with gas powered grappling hooks and sometimes get eaten.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:29
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The parts that seem to aesthetically recall historically-existing European fascism to me are the colors, the names (Eren probably comes from the German word for honor and not from the Turkish name), and okay yeah almost everything about Erwin seriously what the gently caress. And I do think there's evidence there and elsewhere that the author draws influence from his interpretation of fascist history, which seems to be the sort of rose-tinted view taken by most inheritors of such legacies. Not much of what I've seen about his positions there seems to be much worse in terms of denial than what the descendants of white settlers will say about their history and while I think it's very wrong to keep pushing those narratives on a social scale, I don't see a focus on individuals who hold those views as having much point. To be sure, some people will have more reason to be put off by that, and there's nothing wrong with them. As far as relatively privileged and comfortable westerners in the mainstream of society go, though, there's targets way closer to home. A bit of conjecture that could support a fascist reading: possibly the titans are the result of something like in the one-off--a coordinated campaign to destroy existing humanity because of the perceived flaws of its nature. Maybe the idea is to convert all humans into titans, a form in which they are near-indestructible but, due to lack of intelligence or ambition, carry out no aggression except against the old humans and on the orders of some superpower wielded by the holder of the "coordinate" and bigfoot (whatever his deal is). Here, a plot by scientific and cultural elites to transform humanity into mindless monsters, supposedly for a greater good and to protect them from their own nature, does seem to have characteristics of a racist, conspiratorial narrative typical of modern fascists.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:55
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Saagonsa posted:Personally, I like the part where the dudes do cool stuff with gas powered grappling hooks and sometimes get eaten. Bad opinion, the part where the giant mans punch the other giant mans are clearly better
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Nov 23, 2013 02:59
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this allusion meant in between this thread and the Kill la Kill one I'm beginning to think you're trying to be ADTRW's SMG. Please don't be that, the world is joyless and overanalyzed enough as it is with just one of him.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:03
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I've read like a total of three supermechagodzilla posts I don't get why you don't like him. Seems alright. You don't have to read my posts if you don't like to think about this kinda stuff but I'm not sure why it pains you so. This is like the second best part about anime.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:11
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this allusion meant posted:I've read like a total of three supermechagodzilla posts I don't get why you don't like him. Seems alright. I too enjoy exploring the rich and deep symbolism in children's cartoons (or comic books)
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Nov 23, 2013 03:20
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Elyv posted:the part where the giant mans punch the other giant mans are clearly better This is also an acceptable opinion of a comic book aimed at children/teenagers. Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Nov 23, 2013 |
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Nov 23, 2013 03:26
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If analysing a comic book aimed at children/teenagers is pointless, I'm not sure why this thread exists.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:34
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Genocyber posted:I too enjoy exploring the rich and deep symbolism in children's cartoons (or comic books)
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Nov 23, 2013 03:42
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Lestaki posted:If analysing a comic book aimed at children/teenagers is pointless, I'm not sure why this thread exists. There's analyzing and speculating on the story, and then there's writing massive gently caress off posts about the politics of a comic book that probably don't even exist.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:47
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What else will we do during the month break?  They're mildly interesting posts if a bit out there.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:58
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