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So do I need to re-install the whole game to fix this Invalid dialogue problem, or just the mods?
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Nov 23, 2013 14:51
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inscrutable horse posted:I'm going for a "Team Holy-Rollers" with Me (Inquisitor), Keldorn, Anomen, Jaheira, Yoshimo (Until I get to Rasaad) and Aerie. Upon checking Anomen's proficiencies, I noticed he has two pips in spears. Is this something new and idiotic they added to BG2:EE, since he can't use spears, or is it a bug? In BG2 this was a thing added by one of the fixpacks, IIRC. The default Anomen was a bunch of pips short and it was decided that 2 of those should be in spears to fit his backstory: he mentions killing a Wyvern using a spear and he's a dual classed fighter. I guess BG2EE decided to roll with it.
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Nov 23, 2013 15:01
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How... incredibly dumb. Time to boot up Shadowkeeper, then.
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Nov 23, 2013 15:04
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I like how people playing allegedly good characters are hankering for the "kill literally everyone who helped you but may be engaged in things that are Bad Form" approach here. OK so you have Bodhi's crew and the Shadow Thieves. Do you then pop down to the Government District to generally take out the trash, Punisher-style? Every Cowled Wizard, maybe? (not that they can't just go to a different plane for a bit and wait it out or whatever Because Magic). After that, do you hang around being some kind of weird dictator to stop anyone possibly evil getting near power? Hey does anyone remember the opening cutscene of Baldur's Gate at all? 
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Nov 23, 2013 16:19
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Bear in mind that the Shadow Thieves are evil. They're Amn's fantasy mafia, if the mafia were also slave traders. It's not so much a choice between shades of grey as it is a choice between Lawful and Chaotic Evil.
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Nov 23, 2013 17:24
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Has anyone found any new items outside the NPC quests? Like that stun mace that was hidden in Beregost in BGEE.
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Nov 23, 2013 17:28
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jBrereton posted:I like how people playing allegedly good characters are hankering for the "kill literally everyone who helped you but may be engaged in things that are Bad Form" approach here. Lets not mince words here, the Shadow Thieves are capital e Evil. They buy and sell slaves. One of the first things you can find in their extra secret hideaway is a massive rear end torture chamber. They are evil, they just don't intend to turn the people of Athkatla into literal food and/or spread a magical curse/disease that makes you evil regardless of your prior moral stance.
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Nov 23, 2013 17:30
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Captain Oblivious posted:massive rear end torture chamber Oh my god
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Nov 23, 2013 17:34
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TINA TURNER posted:Oh my god The Shadow Thieves never agreed to no butt stuff.
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Nov 23, 2013 17:37
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The only justification in D&D you need to kill poo poo is if you cast Know Alignment or Detect Evil and you get an evil ping - then it's slaughter time. D&D explicitly in the 2E manual says it's not about shades of grey, it's absolute black and white. Either things are evil or they aren't. If the Shadow Thieves and Bodhi are both evil by spell, you should be able to kill them all. It should also be a defense in D&D court, because using this logic I killed every evil character I could in both games, and the Flaming Fist/whoever did not like it at all.
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Nov 23, 2013 19:11
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jBrereton posted:I like how people playing allegedly good characters are hankering for the "kill literally everyone who helped you but may be engaged in things that are Bad Form" approach here. so racist
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Nov 23, 2013 19:12
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As somebody who started playing in AD&D 2E, the argument I always heard was that there was a difference in creatures that are "evil by nature", such as vampires and demons, and those humans, elves, and dwarves who happened to be evil. The former could not change, even if they wanted to; some intrinsic supernatural component of their being, call it their soul if you want, would inevitably lead them back to vile compulsions. The latter, on the other hand, had mutable alignments (as all PCs do), and through persuasion/deed/the will to change could become good. Thus it's defensible and justifiable to kill the former on sight/revelation, decreasing the net evil in the universe, but a good person will still only kill evil people in the prevention of harm or self-defense and show them mercy if it's reasonable to do so (giving that evil person the opportunity to change and better themselves). And in the context of Baldur's Gate, this is all clearly very important.
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Nov 23, 2013 19:34
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gently caress all this moralizing, because Bioware sure as hell didn't give it more than a second's thought. It all boils down to this: do they keep their word without backstabbing you, Y/N? It's why the Shadow Thieves are the "good" path.
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Nov 23, 2013 19:38
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Saki posted:So do I need to re-install the whole game to fix this Invalid dialogue problem, or just the mods? This part I'm fuzzy on since I'm playnig BG:EE for the first time, with a few mods. But I think you probably need to download an updated version of the mod and then run the mod installer again. If it's a Weidu mod that asks you what you watn to install step by step, just specify reinstall for the components you had previously. --- For that matter I am running BG:EE with BG Tweaks and SCS only, and I have a few items that come up with random dialog for their description and title. I didn't really care at first because it's happening on items whose icons I memorize (they added quivers of infinite arrows in BG:EE) but it's a little annoying. Still haven't fixed this particular bug, probably something from Tweaks I'm guessing.
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Nov 23, 2013 19:38
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So yes Keldorn, stop trying to kill Viconia. For gently caress's sake, we're in the Underdark and there are Mind Flayers around, this is not the time. 
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Nov 23, 2013 19:38
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Besides, she only needs one thrust of the PC's Staff of Moral Healing to convert! You should try it, Keldorn. It might have made your wife stay with you.
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Nov 23, 2013 19:41
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It's laughable how you can get people to transform their personalities with a few dialogue lines. I hear you can actually turn Dorn good, and he's a loving blackguard.
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Nov 23, 2013 20:35
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Thus it's defensible and justifiable to kill the former on sight/revelation, decreasing the net evil in the universe, but a good person will still only kill evil people in the prevention of harm or self-defense and show them mercy if it's reasonable to do so (giving that evil person the opportunity to change and better themselves). I like the fact that there are some evil-aligned human NPCs wondering the streets in Athkatla, minding their own business. E.g. Quataris the art merchant in Wakeen's Promenade. The PC could start murdering them all on sight, but that would of course have rather bad consequences.
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Nov 23, 2013 21:02
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Baron Bifford posted:It's laughable how you can get people to transform their personalities with a few dialogue lines. I hear you can actually turn Dorn good, and he's a loving blackguard. I don't have a problem with it as such, since there are probably a lot of conversations "off-camera". Besides, there are always significant actions involved in all these morality changes. The thing that sucks is that it is an one-way street. You can turn a host of evil characters good, but you can only turn one lawful neutral character chaotic neutral. Heaven forbid if you could actually turn somebody evil!
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Nov 23, 2013 21:02
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Does..does Wilson get HLAs at level 20+? If so, which class'?
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Nov 23, 2013 21:08
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Torrannor posted:I don't have a problem with it as such, since there are probably a lot of conversations "off-camera". Besides, there are always significant actions involved in all these morality changes. The thing that sucks is that it is an one-way street. You can turn a host of evil characters good, but you can only turn one lawful neutral character chaotic neutral. Heaven forbid if you could actually turn somebody evil!
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Nov 23, 2013 21:18
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Boogle posted:Its an honest mistake to make, especially when dealing with the D&D license. I honestly don't know why developers don't have the freedom to treat it like tabletop where the DM/developers can do whatever the gently caress, even if it means you can break the setting over its knee. In his Counter-Monkey series, Spoony of the Spoony Experiment discussed some details of his past as GM'ing for the RPGA. They were highly upset when he did the usual tabletop fuckery and they eventually kicked him out, because he had the audacity to let his players die to 3 level 1 wizards. "Leaping wizards", it was called. Arcaeris posted:The only justification in D&D you need to kill poo poo is if you cast Know Alignment or Detect Evil and you get an evil ping - then it's slaughter time. Please quote the paragraph that says Detect Evil gives you a license to kill. Heck my copy explicitly says alignment is a tool, not a straightjacket. Mordaedil fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 23, 2013 |
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Nov 23, 2013 21:29
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Mordaedil posted:Please quote the paragraph that says Detect Evil gives you a license to kill. One of the Eberron books states that a paladin who constantly uses Detect Evil to find evil people and kill them on that basis is not a righteous avenger - he's a serial killer.
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Nov 23, 2013 21:56
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Huh, it's almost like alignment is dumb. Shadow Thieves are still dicks, though. Mordaedil posted:In his Counter-Monkey series, Spoony of the Spoony Experiment discussed some details of his past as GM'ing for the RPGA. They were highly upset when he did the usual tabletop fuckery and they eventually kicked him out, because he had the audacity to let his players die to 3 level 1 wizards.
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Nov 23, 2013 22:05
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The Crotch posted:Huh, it's almost like alignment is dumb. Alignment is a dumb generalization of something complicated (human morality and philosophy), but like Hit Points it's the sort of dumb abstraction that serves a purpose in games. Fantasy fiction frequently entails magic that has different effects on "evil creatures"; weapons like holy water that only harm the wicked, divine attacks that are only effective against those who are anathema to your god's teachings, and ancient artifacts that corrupt and pervert the people who own or use them. Alignment is nothing more than a dumb abstraction used to adjudicate those effects. I don't think D&D games, especially CRPGs, are especially hurt by ripping it out, but I also think it's only capable of creating stupid situations if the players in question use it incorrectly (prescriptively, i.e. "you can't do that because you're good") or don't have a DM with good judgment (a thing that's necessary to make half the game work).
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Nov 23, 2013 22:12
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So are the steam versions being updated with relative speed now? Has BG2EE already gotten the new fix on steam?
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Nov 23, 2013 22:24
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Yes.
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Nov 23, 2013 22:25
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Does Jaheria not show up outside the Harper building if I told her to find her own way out of the first dungeon? I feel like I doomed myself again when I really want that ring.
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Nov 23, 2013 22:40
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Does Neera get any better personality-wise in BG2:EE? It's like they backported the most boring aspects of Aerie's personality and history into BG1:EE. I'm thinking of dumping her once I'm through dualing Imoen over.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:27
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Rascyc posted:Does Neera get any better personality-wise in BG2:EE? It's like they backported the most boring aspects of Aerie's personality and history into BG1:EE. I'm thinking of dumping her once I'm through dualing Imoen over. She has some interesting character development and I feel she's a much more tolerable. She still kinda feels like a fan fic though.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:31
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Help, how are you supposed to beat Mind Flayers? Every single one of my characters die instantly. I'm just past Spellhold and I got 2 forced encounters with them there and I beat the first one by placing summoned creatures outside the door and then blasting it with spells while it was busy. The second one I got by a hasted Anomen and Slay Living, I reloaded until it hit and killed it in the first hit. Is there really no spell that protects against the brain devour thing?
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Nov 23, 2013 23:37
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cheesetriangles posted:Does Jaheria not show up outside the Harper building if I told her to find her own way out of the first dungeon? I feel like I doomed myself again when I really want that ring. Yeah, I've been going through my first evil play through ever and she left when I insulted her over Khalids dead body, and never showed up at the Harper's. I'd be really pissed off I was a mage but since I'm doing berserker/cleric it's not a big deal.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:39
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I don't melee Mind Flayers at all if I can help it. They're enough of a pain that I'll usually just chuck skeletons at them while my group hides somewhere.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:40
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TjyvTompa posted:Help, how are you supposed to beat Mind Flayers? Every single one of my characters die instantly. I'm just past Spellhold and I got 2 forced encounters with them there and I beat the first one by placing summoned creatures outside the door and then blasting it with spells while it was busy. The second one I got by a hasted Anomen and Slay Living, I reloaded until it hit and killed it in the first hit. Is there really no spell that protects against the brain devour thing? Cleric spell: Chaotic Commands. Greenstone Amulet. If you're using the tweak pack or item pack there are various items that give you immunity to psionics. Undead summons or mondekinin's sword.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:41
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TjyvTompa posted:Help, how are you supposed to beat Mind Flayers? Every single one of my characters die instantly. I'm just past Spellhold and I got 2 forced encounters with them there and I beat the first one by placing summoned creatures outside the door and then blasting it with spells while it was busy. The second one I got by a hasted Anomen and Slay Living, I reloaded until it hit and killed it in the first hit. Is there really no spell that protects against the brain devour thing?
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Nov 23, 2013 23:45
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Thanks for the fast answers, I guess I will keep using summons and not try to melee them at all.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:48
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TjyvTompa posted:Help, how are you supposed to beat Mind Flayers? Every single one of my characters die instantly. I'm just past Spellhold and I got 2 forced encounters with them there and I beat the first one by placing summoned creatures outside the door and then blasting it with spells while it was busy. The second one I got by a hasted Anomen and Slay Living, I reloaded until it hit and killed it in the first hit. Is there really no spell that protects against the brain devour thing? No spell protects against it directly, but mirror image can eat the attacks and and they have awful Thac0, it's like 10. So if you have someone with AC of -10 or better they'll only be hit 5% of the time. The fifth level cleric spell "chaotic commands" protects against their mind blast stun attack. Try Animate Dead. If you're at least level 15 hasted skeleton warriors tear their poo poo up because they're already int 0. Same goes for Mordenkainen's Sword, but you may not have access to that spell yet. You'll also notice that they usually spawn with umber hulks. The sixth level mage spell "death spell" kills them instantly. Technically it kills mind flayers instantly too, but their magic resistance usually stops it. The thing to remember is that you want to hit them hard, fast, and avoid being surrounded. Try and get them attacking either the skeletons or swords. Finally, if all else fails chug some potions of genius to get your tanks int to 25 before the fight. e: gently caress I'm too slow 
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Nov 23, 2013 23:48
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TjyvTompa posted:Help, how are you supposed to beat Mind Flayers? Every single one of my characters die instantly. I'm just past Spellhold and I got 2 forced encounters with them there and I beat the first one by placing summoned creatures outside the door and then blasting it with spells while it was busy. The second one I got by a hasted Anomen and Slay Living, I reloaded until it hit and killed it in the first hit. Is there really no spell that protects against the brain devour thing? Their brain thing drains 5 intelligence each time, so make sure you're using a character with at least 11 intelligence so they can survive 2 hits. Then I usually either use Korgan in berserk mode or someone with Chaotic Commands to to just wail on them. Restoration should restore any drained int.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:53
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Protection from Magical Weapons should stop it. The int drain is from their physical attack which count as magic weapons iirc.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:55
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Chaotic commands is important to protect against their psionic blast spam. If they manage to stun someone, the enemy AI will beeline to that party member and attack. All hits vs. incapacitated targets are basically automatic (+10 or +15 bonus to THAC0? something like that), so he or she will die very quickly to brain drain. You can easily exploit that nasty AI behavior though. Mind flayer areas are very cramped, so it's very easy to deliberately not cast chaotic commands on a party member, someone in the back, say your mage, and have the rest of your protected party members block the way. Once the psionic barrage is done, the bait will be stunned, and the mind flayers will futilely try to move *through* your party to reach the delicious paralyzed brains in the back, and they won't fight back as the rest of your party cuts them down. Skwirl posted:Restoration should restore any drained int. No. Stat drain is temporary and you have to wait it out.
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Nov 24, 2013 00:05
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