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Local facilities used to have more control of pilot deviations. Now all events get reviewed and passed along to the regional offices. I doesn't necessarily mean the reaction will be worse, but it kinda removes the tower's ability to have a brief chat with the pilot on the phone and just let it go. That said, it also keeps pissed off controllers/supervisors from overreacting and throwing the hammer down on a pilot for an innocent mistake. Now everything is reported and processed, whether there was a separation issue or not. Retaining legal counsel and filing an ASAP report are good idea for the pilot. Hopefully it's easy to smooth things over but you don't want to enter discussions with a federal agency without some help.
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Nov 24, 2013 20:18
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MrYenko: in this scenario, let's say he didn't call for flight following. obviously if he landed at an uncontrolled field you wouldn't know who it was. if he landed somewhere towered nearby I assume you'd watch and call the tower. But for how long would you watch the target, basically? if he flew like 300 nm east would it get passed along to center for example?
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Nov 25, 2013 02:47
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The Ferret King posted:That said, it also keeps pissed off controllers/supervisors from overreacting and throwing the hammer down on a pilot for an innocent mistake. Now everything is reported and processed, whether there was a separation issue or not. When did this change happen? A few years ago a friend of mine and fellow CFI accidentally busted bravo. I saw him right when he got back and he looked white as a ghost and was obviously nervous. He called the TRACON (vegas IIRC) and the conversation was basically "Hey just so you know, you busted the bravo. Try no to do that anymore okay? Have a good night" That was the last he ever heard of it. It seemed like the controller just wanted to give him an FYI and that was that. I assume that he would have at least HEARD from the FAA if they got wind of it.
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Nov 25, 2013 03:48
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The Slaughter posted:MrYenko: in this scenario, let's say he didn't call for flight following. obviously if he landed at an uncontrolled field you wouldn't know who it was. if he landed somewhere towered nearby I assume you'd watch and call the tower. But for how long would you watch the target, basically? if he flew like 300 nm east would it get passed along to center for example? If we can tell that they're going for a specific field, we'll have law enforcement headed that way and the FBO will tell us the tail number. We do hand the target off to adjacent facilities. If it gets lost, so be it. If it stays tracked to the destination, then the FBO rats them out or we can hear them check in on the CTAF. Either way, we have the local law enforcement looking. KodiakRS posted:When did this change happen? A few years ago a friend of mine and fellow CFI accidentally busted bravo. I saw him right when he got back and he looked white as a ghost and was obviously nervous. He called the TRACON (vegas IIRC) and the conversation was basically "Hey just so you know, you busted the bravo. Try no to do that anymore okay? Have a good night" That was the last he ever heard of it. It seemed like the controller just wanted to give him an FYI and that was that. I assume that he would have at least HEARD from the FAA if they got wind of it. Anything can happen, but the official procedure now is for every deviation to get logged and reviewed. This began a little over a year ago, maybe two years? The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 05:15
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What Ferret King said, basically. It's the kind of thing where it will PROBABLY just be a stern warning, but it depends on how blatantly you violated them, how much juggling of traffic they had to do, etc. Honestly, IMO the best thing you can do is not to run away, or try to hide, but to just self report, if you realize you did it, or are in the process of doing it. That particular instance was just amusing, since we had four people (R side, myself, my trainer, and a supervisor,) all clustered around the scope staring at the WATCH track on an otherwise-empty scope, and he calls us up all innocent-like. I don't think he realized he made a mistake, and it totally blindsided him.
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Nov 25, 2013 18:02
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I had an instructor who was Challenger type rated claim that he had a Dual Air Data failure which caused his Airspeed to indicate +Mach Speeds and caused his altimeter to indicate -1000 ft of actual altitude. Autopilot then immediately tried correcting by throttling back and diving, while the transponder related the NEW position that he was maintaining. Of course TRACON and applicable were not happy about him suddenly busting separation and scaring the living hell out of an oncoming Citation. So of course he had to make the scary phone call and was eventually dropped of any wrongdoing, confirmed by maintenance once he set down at his destination. He related the story as a cautionary tale of maintaining a constant string of Reasonableness Checks and making sure to trust your common sense and decision making processes over blindly trusting instrumentation, especially when you know it's wrong. I'm sure like anything it's 90% bullshit and 10% truth.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:13
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God, I am not looking forward to work on Wednesday. Thanksgiving traffic gets retarded. Absolutely retarded.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:14
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Tommy 2.0 posted:God, I am not looking forward to work on Wednesday. Thanksgiving traffic gets retarded. Absolutely retarded. Don't forget the winter weather and potential significant icing conditions to follow!
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Nov 25, 2013 19:16
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Got to experience what a go around feels like in a 737 today. Hopefully they get San Diego up and running again soon.
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Nov 25, 2013 20:02
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QuiteEasilyDone posted:Don't forget the winter weather and potential significant icing conditions to follow! Ahhhhh, South Florida. 
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Nov 25, 2013 20:05
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MrYenko posted:What Ferret King said, basically. I think a thousand aviation lawyers would disagree with you that the best thing to do is "self report", except on a NASA ASRS form. If you find yourself in bravo inadvertently exit immediately. I can't really say what the best thing to do is in the air, but confessing your transgression on a recorded frequency is probably low on the list. If you get a phone number from ATC, you don't have to call it immediately. Compose your thoughts (maybe now's a good time for that ASRS form) and consider calling an aviation lawyer first for their advice, like AOPA legal services. The Slaughter fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 21:05
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I guess today is the day of snarky GA pilots. Heres a tip, If you are flying a king air through the most congested airspace in the country to the busiest GA airport in the country, dont argue with the controller when he descends you. ESPECIALLY dont ask if he expects you to fly all the way to new york at 150. Dont make any comments like "we'll keep going at that altitude as far as the fuel takes us". You want to stay at 170, cancel IFR and you can go at 175. Dick. Also, if you are VFR and the controller you have flight following from suggests a heading to avoid the restricted airspace you are tracking DIRECTLY TOWARDS, thank him and make the turn or tell him what fix you are navigating to to miss it. DO NOT tell him you have made this trip 30 times in the past 10 years and you dont need help missing airspace.
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Nov 26, 2013 05:04
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KodiakRS posted:"If we don't pass this TA united won't give us any of the new RJ's and as they transition away fro 50 seaters we'll stagnate and shrink! If we don't pass it we're all DOOOMED!" This. Funny thing is Expressjet (ASA) pilots are the first to deny a JS or belittle the guy who "took their aircraft"/sign a concessionary deal. Let's see, they complained about GoJets taking their -700s, Pinnacle (Endeavor) for their bankruptcy contract. Yet ASA has xxxCA planes from Comair, xxxPQ from Pinnacle, and some Skywest planes. So, who is taking who's flying? Sit down, sign your concessions, and shut up. We'll all be at Delta, United, American in 5 years anyway.
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Nov 26, 2013 23:44
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I have never heard any ASA pilot say anything about anyone taking their planes. Ever. There is plenty of hate against GoJets (dont tell me this is not shared by the industry), but for Pinnacle it was mostly sympathy for a group who got a gun put to their heads, except for a small minority of vocal assholes. XJT is not in the same situation as Pinnacle or PSA. We'll see if the TA passes. I for one will vote no, and that seems to be the feeling. But what do I know, this is my first time through an airline contract vote. Animal fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 00:37
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I just had a Delta MD88 Captain give me poo poo because I didnt go by the cockpit and ask for permission to non-rev. First they assigned me the jumpseat then gave me a seat in the cabin. Normally I say hi to the pilots as a courtesy unless its busy like it was today, late departure out of ATL. I just wait till I unboard and go by and say thanks for giving me a ride. He followed me out to the gate area bitching the whole way, telling me you have to go by the cockpit and ask for permission. Would you imagine if every standby on a flight had to go by the cockpit just to ask for permission? What a friggin rear end.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:58
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Animal posted:I have never heard any ASA pilot say anything about anyone taking their planes. Ever. There is plenty of hate against GoJets (dont tell me this is not shared by the industry), but for Pinnacle it was mostly sympathy for a group who got a gun put to their heads, except for a small minority of vocal assholes. I have. They didn't deny me but he definitely wanted some words with me. That's true that they aren't in the same situation until Daddy Delta puts the gun to your head. 50 seaters are going away and I wouldn't be surpirsed if they push for a similar cost from ASA for the -7/900 that 9E/GJ. Animal posted:I just had a Delta MD88 Captain give me poo poo because I didnt go by the cockpit and ask for permission to non-rev. First they assigned me the jumpseat then gave me a seat in the cabin. Normally I say hi to the pilots as a courtesy unless its busy like it was today, late departure out of ATL. I just wait till I unboard and go by and say thanks for giving me a ride. He followed me out to the gate area bitching the whole way, telling me you have to go by the cockpit and ask for permission. I had a Delta guy give me poo poo on his JS for flying the -900 saying they should be mainline planes. Luckily we were in flight and I set him straight, hell his FO even chuckled.
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Nov 27, 2013 14:18
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Why would an airline pilot give a poo poo in the first place? Just some kind of control and power thing?
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Nov 27, 2013 15:28
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Animal posted:I just had a Delta MD88 Captain give me poo poo because I didnt go by the cockpit and ask for permission to non-rev. First they assigned me the jumpseat then gave me a seat in the cabin. Normally I say hi to the pilots as a courtesy unless its busy like it was today, late departure out of ATL. I just wait till I unboard and go by and say thanks for giving me a ride. He followed me out to the gate area bitching the whole way, telling me you have to go by the cockpit and ask for permission. Just to clarify you were ticketed as a non-rev not as a cabin-seat jumpseater, correct? There's a big difference between the two. If you were truly a non-rev, the Captain was an enormous cock. If he got a jumpseat slip on you and you didn't check in and ASK for a ride, you were kind of a dick.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:44
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I listed standby on Delta's portal, and told the gate agent to give me the jumpseat if it meant one more standby passenger would be able to get on the flight. Before boarding the gate agent told me I would not need to do the jumpseat and to take a seat. I walked into the plane, introduced myself to one of the flight attendants. The other flight attendant was doing a PA and blocking the cockpit, so as not to back up the boarding process I went straight to my seat. I normally greet the pilots as a courtesy, but when it can't be done without being in the way, I wait till landing and say my thanks. Maybe he was told I was a jumpseat traveller, and thought I simply walked into the cabin like a boss? In any case, now I know that if a jumpseat request is every involved during pre-boarding, I will wait by the door until I speak to the captain, just to be safe. I was never told in training, or in ALPA's jumpseat information, that you HAD to talk to the captain if you are gonna seat in the cabin. Only as a courtesy (which I normally follow, even bringing snacks when I can.)
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Nov 27, 2013 23:06
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AWSEFT posted:That's true that they aren't in the same situation until Daddy Delta puts the gun to your head. 50 seaters are going away and I wouldn't be surpirsed if they push for a similar cost from ASA for the -7/900 that 9E/GJ. ALPA posted:...Delta Air Lines has clauses in its regional capacity purchase agreements that essentially allow it to reset the block hour rates that it pays its other regionals to match the second lowest of any of its regional carriers. As a result, Delta’s announcement made public its ability to drive all of its regional feed costs near Pinnacle by the end of 2017. Because nearly fifty percent of all mainline departures are flown by regional partners, the competitive advantage that Delta is threatening to realize is massive. AWSEFT posted:I had a Delta guy give me poo poo on his JS for flying the -900 saying they should be mainline planes.
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Nov 27, 2013 23:51
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KodiakRS posted:Did you ask him why they traded away scope for pay increases? Yes, yes I did.
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Nov 28, 2013 01:36
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Hey guys, I fly planes. That's pretty cool
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Nov 28, 2013 05:34
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Animal posted:I listed standby on Delta's portal, and told the gate agent to give me the jumpseat if it meant one more standby passenger would be able to get on the flight. Before boarding the gate agent told me I would not need to do the jumpseat and to take a seat. I walked into the plane, introduced myself to one of the flight attendants. The other flight attendant was doing a PA and blocking the cockpit, so as not to back up the boarding process I went straight to my seat. I normally greet the pilots as a courtesy, but when it can't be done without being in the way, I wait till landing and say my thanks. Usually if you start the process as a jumpseater you stay that way, regardless if you sit up front or not. I wouldn't sweat it, but I'd make every effort to ASK the Captain for a ride if you're not traveling on a real, known non-rev ticket.
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Nov 28, 2013 06:16
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Oh drat, just ran across this video so I hope it hasn't been posted before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzFtunP1ytc As an aspiring PP, this is my biggest fear.
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Nov 28, 2013 07:33
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Just got some night XC time and did a touch and go at MDW, busiest airport I've been to so far. Even though I'm from around the area and could find landmarks it still took me forever to find the airport, I'm not used to flying to airports that are surrounded by other lights.
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Nov 28, 2013 08:36
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LancairEvolution posted:Hey guys, I fly planes. Post your info and I'll include you in the OP.
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Nov 28, 2013 13:30
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Stupid Post Maker posted:Just got some night XC time and did a touch and go at MDW, busiest airport I've been to so far. Even though I'm from around the area and could find landmarks it still took me forever to find the airport, I'm not used to flying to airports that are surrounded by other lights. I've ben there a handful of times and its kinda hard to spot. Usually there is a lot of open land to help ID an airport, not there.
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Nov 28, 2013 13:31
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McDeth posted:Oh drat, just ran across this video so I hope it hasn't been posted before As a tower controller in a past life, this is...110% true. Getting proper readbacks out of pilots was a HUGE pet peeve of mine regarding hold short instructions and some pilots would literally be just like the dude on the left in this video. I would be going insane. Then the times I would have to spit out something ridiculously long and forced thinking "god this isn't going to get read back right at all", then the pilot spits it back flawlessly, would make me weak in the knees. "Callsign Wind Runway CFT I <3 U"
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Nov 28, 2013 15:41
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Tommy 2.0 posted:As a tower controller in a past life, this is...110% true. Getting proper readbacks out of pilots was a HUGE pet peeve of mine regarding hold short instructions and some pilots would literally be just like the dude on the left in this video. I would be going insane. Then the times I would have to spit out something ridiculously long and forced thinking "god this isn't going to get read back right at all", then the pilot spits it back flawlessly, would make me weak in the knees. "Callsign Wind Runway CFT I <3 U" Detroit is the only irport I've been to that is ANAL about you reading back the assigned runway. Doesn't matter if your instructions are "K, 9L, M" and the ONLY runway over there is 21R you HAVE to say it back. I've grown so accustomed to it I say it everywhere and don't even notice until Ground is yelling at Chautauqua, Acey, etc.
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Nov 29, 2013 00:18
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Yeah our book has a note that says a pilot reading back runway assignment along with the taxi instruction satisfies the "wind, runway, altimeter" information that we're required to ensure receipt of. It could be inferred, then, that we need to get an actual readback on that item. It gets overlooked a lot, but I could see it being very important at airports with lots of runways and/or shared holdshort spots between runways.
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Nov 29, 2013 00:30
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LancairEvolution posted:Hey guys, I fly planes. orly? 
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Nov 29, 2013 01:08
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ya rly What is better than flying planes? I haven't found anything yet. For that reason I am considering ruining my life by doing it professionally.
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Nov 29, 2013 01:11
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The Ferret King posted:Yeah our book has a note that says a pilot reading back runway assignment along with the taxi instruction satisfies the "wind, runway, altimeter" information that we're required to ensure receipt of. It could be inferred, then, that we need to get an actual readback on that item. It gets overlooked a lot, but I could see it being very important at airports with lots of runways and/or shared holdshort spots between runways. And I get it, however I could be in MDW, JFK, ATL, etc and not read back the assigned runway and no one would jump my case. Ninja edit: But like I said, I always do it now.
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Nov 29, 2013 02:14
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DNova posted:ya rly being able to pay bills, provide for your family, be around your friends and family and actually see them once in awhile instead of every couple of months, save for retirement, have a normal schedule, be able to maybe afford flying a little and actually going where you want and doing what you want on the way, not have to move to some lovely city, not waste your life in airports and in hotels, little things like that
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Nov 29, 2013 04:00
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The Slaughter posted:being able to pay bills, provide for your family, be around your friends and family and actually see them once in awhile instead of every couple of months, save for retirement, have a normal schedule, be able to maybe afford flying a little and actually going where you want and doing what you want on the way, not have to move to some lovely city, not waste your life in airports and in hotels, little things like that Heh heh. Yeah, all of this. If you can't resist the suck, though, now probably isn't too bad a time to get started (as long as you can get 1500 hours pretty quickly).
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Nov 29, 2013 05:38
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ausgezeichnet posted:Heh heh. Yeah, all of this. That's the plan, already have my ppl, just gotta knock out a couple semesters of college and ATP for the rest of my certs and hours.
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Nov 29, 2013 05:51
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I'm pretty used to living in lovely cities and wasting my life in airports thanks to my time in the military though. I've kind of grown to enjoy airports. 
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Nov 29, 2013 05:53
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e.pie posted:I'm pretty used to living in lovely cities and wasting my life in airports thanks to my time in the military though. That's cute. Get back to us in a few years after being in this industry for a while.
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Nov 29, 2013 05:57
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atehist posted:That's cute. Get back to us in a few years after being in this industry for a while. Or how much fun you have bombing up and back to the tarsands knowing the barely literate chucklefucks in the back make four times as much money as you do staring at valves all day long. I try not to think about it...now I'm sad. 
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Nov 29, 2013 06:30
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American/US Airways is a done deal: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/11/judge-oks-american-airlines-us-airways-merger-americans-exit-from-bankruptcy.html/ Gonna be a lot of empty ticket counter space at some airports...I'm amazed at how many white walls there are at CMH right now from where AirTran, Northwest, Midwest Express, and Continental (America West, too, if you want to go that far back) once set up shop. Add US to the list. e- Once it's all said and done, CMH will have service from American, Delta, United, Southwest, and Air Canada Jazz (Frontier just announced they're loving off to CLE and CVG). It sounds like nobody wants to operate there...until you realize the purge I just talked about and that's about all that's left. Could use Spirit, Virgin America, or a return visit from jetBlue sometime soon. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 29, 2013 |
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Nov 29, 2013 16:20
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