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oldpainless posted:I have never heard the phrase "double edged chair" bit I hope its a new gimmick introduced at TLC. I miss Big Show's special GIANT CHAIR.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:46
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Gaz-L posted:I miss Big Show's special GIANT CHAIR. I'm waiting for them to introduce the ladder that makes him move at super speed.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:49
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Maxwell Lord posted:I'm waiting for them to introduce the ladder that makes him move at super speed. I am honestly surprised he didn't get a rematch at TLC just so the prop department could go hog wild.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:50
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You'd almost think centering the entire product around John Cena to the point where no one matters who is not John Cena might just be detrimental when the time comes to try and have someone draw money that isn't John Cena.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:52
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MassRafTer posted:Have you ever heard of something called sample size? People on a message board or a circle of friends are a small sample size. Ratings and buys are a large sample. If your friends started watching WWE but the ratings don't go up, that means other people stopped watching WWE when Bryan got pushed. If someone starts buying PPVs because of Bryan but buys go down, that means more people stopped watching shows during his run than started.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:58
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jeffersonlives posted:Things fans say on the internet don't really matter because message board posts don't translate to money, and secondarily because people talking about wrestling on the internet tend to be hardcores that watch/buy/attend the shows no matter what.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:01
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LividLiquid posted:Your entire argument ignores the build to a match. Matches don't exist in a vacuum. If Daniel Bryan were a draw on his own he would be able to overcome a weak build (especially when the Cena picks him storyline was preceded by months of strong build where he ended the Shield's streak and beat Orton one on one) where he had in theory tremendous support from Lesnar and Punk. The build to Ryback vs Punk last year was loving awful since they didn't know at first if Cena would be able to do the match. That still drew. There are so many examples of wrestlers overcoming lovely booking to become stars or draw money. Okada overcame years of being literally nothing (since 10 people in Japan watch TNA) having a bad match on the Dome show and issuing a heatless challenge to become a big star. Goldberg was constantly shuffled into the #2 or worse match during his title run and was still a big star by Starrcade with the company doing HUGE live gates in December of 99 and then the ill fated fingerpoke Dome show. The Bryan vs Cena build was not good. However, it's not like he hasn't gotten any help or any push this year, so you can't say that the number isn't his fault. You also can't say it is entirely his fault. Something didn't click. But, when something does terribly and a new wrestler is introduced to the main event picture we can guess that he at that point wasn't going to draw. Could he become one if he was booked incredibly strongly from SS through HitC and won the belt in a huge moment? Maybe. It's possible, but less likely than I would have thought before the SS number came out.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:07
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achillesforever6 posted:That or they go on streams to watch the PPV And if that's something they don't do already, that shows up in the business numbers.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:11
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It's the same eternal fandom vs. publisher conflict you see in gaming, right down to the "we only consume the product illegally because we hate it" argument
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Dec 1, 2013 01:16
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What demographics in Japan are most into NJPW, et al? Is it mostly 20 to 40 year old adult males, or is its popularity more universal? What are the chances some random middle school girl knows the name of, say, Okada?
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Dec 1, 2013 01:27
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MassRafTer posted:Pretty close to Hogan. He's been terrible in the ring for ages but is one of the most popular Japanese wrestlers of his generation because he exudes cool. A large part of that has to do with Steve Austin kinda, sorta breaking Chono's neck. There was an interview where he said that he was proud to not have hurt anyone in the ring and the interviewer brought up how he broke Chono's neck with a piledriver. To which Austin was horrified and and tried to save face, though he genuinely didn't seem to know that it'd happened. Chono was a great worker. Hell, he innovated a bunch of STF variations just for kicks. He also did this:  Which never gets old.
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Dec 1, 2013 03:11
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Ghostpilot posted:A large part of that has to do with Steve Austin kinda, sorta breaking Chono's neck. There was an interview where he said that he was proud to not have hurt anyone in the ring and the interviewer brought up how he broke Chono's neck with a piledriver. To which Austin was horrified and and tried to save face, though he genuinely didn't seem to know that it'd happened. The neck injury was really vague and mysterious at the time, just reported as a neck injury and to my knowledge never reported as a broken neck at the time. He didn't even miss much time, so I could see Austin not realizing it was a serious injury at the time. It definitely crippled him as a worker though.
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Dec 1, 2013 03:15
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Who is the Japanese wrestler who had the picture with the quote,"If you're a pussy I'm going to kill you, it's as simple as that."?
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Dec 1, 2013 03:19
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This is the picture in case anyone's wondering:
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Dec 1, 2013 03:24
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One of my favorite random commentary lines is from this old episode of WWF Wrestling Challenge. During a match, they show a promo by Afa that's entirely in Samoan with subtitles. Randomly, in the middle of his promo he yells, "YOY!" which is translated in the subtitles as, well, "YOY!" The commentators are Gorilla Monsoon and Randy Savage, who can't get over this. After a moment, Savage goes, "OHHHH YOOOOOY!" and I lost it. While people poo poo on Vince's commentary for his whatamaneuvers and onetwoHEGOTHIMnohedidn'ts, I thought he was great when paired with a comedic heel color guy because he was the perfect straight man. He and Heenan calling the Michaels/Martel match at Summerslam '92 still kills me.
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Dec 1, 2013 05:05
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Coaaab posted:This is the picture in case anyone's wondering: Looks like Mr. Pogo without makeup
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Dec 1, 2013 05:28
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Perdido posted:Summerslam '92 had the British Bulldog defeat Bret Hart for the IC title in what was a loving awesome match. That is a great match and end to an angle, but SummerSlam wasn't/isn't a UK-only show, though.
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Dec 1, 2013 06:05
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Gavok posted:While people poo poo on Vince's commentary for his whatamaneuvers and onetwoHEGOTHIMnohedidn'ts, I thought he was great when paired with a comedic heel color guy because he was the perfect straight man. He and Heenan calling the Michaels/Martel match at Summerslam '92 still kills me. That night a year or two back where Ventura came back and he and Vince went back to their old play by play/color roles was amazing 
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Dec 1, 2013 06:16
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Favorite commentary moment is by Jesse Ventura. Twin Towers vs Rockers at WM5. Shawn is in the ring and Akeem gets the tag, throws a clothesline which Michaels ducks. Akeem turns around and lariats him into a twitching husk on the canvas. Ventura just deadpans "I believe he irritated Akeem." Gets me every time I hear it. Also when Jesse never failed to call Joey Marella an idiot when he was officiating since he was Gorilla's son. I still use the phrase External Occipital Protuberance whenever possible. "What the hell is that Gorilla?" "That's the back of the head, Jess." "Then why don't you just call it that?"
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Dec 1, 2013 06:32
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beepo posted:Looks like Mr. Pogo without makeup Yup, that's him. I think that promo was leading up to a match with Matsunaga.
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Dec 1, 2013 06:50
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I thought Ken Shamrock was loving awesome as a kid, and I've thought Steve Blackman was cool for a while now. Do any of their Lion's Den cagefights hold up anymore, or are they poo poo?
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Dec 1, 2013 07:53
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rotinaj posted:Do any of their Lion's Den cagefights hold up anymore, or are they poo poo? Owen-Shamrock was good: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzw906_owen-hart-vs-ken-shamrock-lion-s-den-match-summerslam-1998_sport
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Dec 1, 2013 08:11
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Curious, any idea how many buys are attributable to sports bars or other sources that will buy the PPV regardless? I'm wondering what the absolute baseline is for buys.
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Dec 1, 2013 09:07
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maxallen posted:Curious, any idea how many buys are attributable to sports bars or other sources that will buy the PPV regardless? I'm wondering what the absolute baseline is for buys. Those don't get counted in PPV buys, if WWE lists Blast Zones on their site still you should be able to get an idea of places that carry them, it isn't many anymore.
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Dec 1, 2013 09:14
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MassRafTer posted:Those don't get counted in PPV buys, if WWE lists Blast Zones on their site still you should be able to get an idea of places that carry them, it isn't many anymore. So we can safely say 150,000 people are buying every lovely PPV the WWE puts out?
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Dec 1, 2013 09:21
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maxallen posted:So we can safely say 150,000 people are buying every lovely PPV the WWE puts out? I think this year the floor has been 170,000 worldwide, in 2011 the floor was 137,000 which was the absolute lowest non D2D numbers I've seen. Battleground may end up lower than 170, but I don't think I've seen a number for that this year.
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Dec 1, 2013 09:31
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Another amazing Ventura moment. He was doing the number drawings for a Rumble, and there's a vignette implying Ted DiBiase bribed Ventura for a good number. Gorilla questions Jesse about it and he just replies with "IT'S NOT A CRIME TO ACCEPT FREE MONEY, GORILLA." Dunno why it cracks me up so much. I think it's just because Ventura is always such an overt heel, yet he sounded so drat offended when Gorilla implied he might not be impartial.
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Dec 1, 2013 10:26
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VogeGandire posted:Another amazing Ventura moment. He was doing the number drawings for a Rumble, and there's a vignette implying Ted DiBiase bribed Ventura for a good number. Gorilla questions Jesse about it and he just replies with "IT'S NOT A CRIME TO ACCEPT FREE MONEY, GORILLA." Because for the heel it is a normal act that any rational thinking person would have done.
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Dec 1, 2013 18:49
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Jerusalem posted:That night a year or two back where Ventura came back and he and Vince went back to their old play by play/color roles was amazing The beginning of Sheamus, via the Breakthrough Battle Royal. I really liked that match concept, they should bring it back.
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Dec 1, 2013 19:17
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Gavok posted:One of my favorite random commentary lines is from this old episode of WWF Wrestling Challenge. During a match, they show a promo by Afa that's entirely in Samoan with subtitles. Randomly, in the middle of his promo he yells, "YOY!" which is translated in the subtitles as, well, "YOY!" The commentators are Gorilla Monsoon and Randy Savage, who can't get over this. Any idea where I might mind this? If you know the year I might start there. On the subject on commentary favourites, I always enjoyed JR sticking words together. At Summerslam 96 he says "Vader's half man, half monster", which is a good enough line and could have been left as such, before adding "he's a MANSTER!". Also good is when Chyna clotheslines an opponent, possibly Ivory at one of the early 2001 events, and says "what a clothesline! Maybe we could call that a Chynaline", and then humbly, "or maybe not...". Oh, and "X-Pac and Kane! Rock and Big Show! Final four, of the Royal Rumble!". Y'know, without thinking about it, I've quite a lot of lines that have stuck in my head over the years. How about "These two men, gave you, everything in their bodies. They gave you of their SOULS, here tonight". The intonation sticks out as much as the line itself.
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Dec 1, 2013 23:03
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I was always fascinated by JR saying "THEY killed him" when Mick was thrown from the cell. Who is "THEY"? The fans? The WWE brass (which included Jim at the time)? Wrestling as a whole?
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Dec 1, 2013 23:11
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Red posted:That is a great match and end to an angle, but SummerSlam wasn't/isn't a UK-only show, though. Totally misread that question, sorry, haha!
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Dec 1, 2013 23:16
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I was always fascinated by JR saying "THEY killed him" when Mick was thrown from the cell. Who is "THEY"? The fans? The WWE brass (which included Jim at the time)? Wrestling as a whole? I always heard it as "that killed him". Like he'd already had the time to process the event with the benefit of hindsight and come to a conclusion.
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Dec 1, 2013 23:18
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I love JR's outrage at Cactus Jack and Terry Funk being thrown off the stage in a dumpster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjry5_tqz4&t=155s There's people in there! What the hell is so great about that? There's people in there!
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Dec 1, 2013 23:19
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I was always fascinated by JR saying "THEY killed him" when Mick was thrown from the cell. Who is "THEY"? The fans? The WWE brass (which included Jim at the time)? Wrestling as a whole? 
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Dec 1, 2013 23:20
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magnum_valentino posted:I always heard it as "that killed him". Like he'd already had the time to process the event with the benefit of hindsight and come to a conclusion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hMp65SzyTU At 1:54 of the official highlight, it's quite clear that it's "They've killed him! They've killed him!" No idea who they are in this context, I wasn't watching WWE at the time.
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Dec 1, 2013 23:22
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My fired!?! 
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Dec 1, 2013 23:35
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projecthalaxy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hMp65SzyTU I can't watch that video for some reason but I just checked the actual PPV. The instance I'm thinking of is right after he's thrown. He says it once, not twice, and it's definitely "that". There's a 't' at the end. It sounds like a 'they', admittedly, but it's JR's accent, same as he says "set up" instead of "sat up" in Undertake or Kane matches. Definitely a "that".
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Dec 1, 2013 23:44
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I assumed 'they' in 'they've killed him' is talking about whomever signed off on the spot. In JRs heat-of-the-moment reaction he probably assumed someone had to and they killed him. (I also thought it was 'that killed him' for a long time).
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Dec 1, 2013 23:44
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I heard it as "That killed him!" back in 1998 and every single time I hear that sound byte I still hear "that".
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Dec 2, 2013 00:33
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