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I wonder if he has much of a parallel on the other side. Volcheck maybe?
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Dec 3, 2013 00:26
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Stan Valcheck? (sp) Who would Slim Charles want to take down just cause? He avoids stepping on toes whereas the stained glass issue is all about toe stepping and being petty.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:34
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Thaddius the Large posted:I wonder if he has much of a parallel on the other side. Volcheck maybe? Landsman, probably. Either him or Rawls.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:38
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He seems like a soldier who's more interested in doing a good job than making rank. A real ghetto Cincinnatus. Carver maybe? A competent Prezbo?
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Dec 3, 2013 01:38
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Daniels. Daniels gets pushed by those around him to make rank, but he doesn't care for it. Instead he (eventually) gets all behind bringing in good cases, doing good work. When he starts moving up the chain he does so only because he truly believes it'll lead to poo poo getting done right, because he feels like he has to. He's not particularly skilled at politicking, even though he eventually ends up at the top. He's loyal and takes care of his own. Eventually though, his past catches up to him and he's out. While it's likely that Slim will last for a while, does anyone doubt that eventually he too has a real good chance of ending up dead or in prison? At best he might get out the game in a way like Marlo was offered, the difference being, Slim would take it and get out. Maybe he's even more like Daniels in that way, in the end he might well manage to get out the game alive and doing quite well personally. Other parallels, Daniels complaining about not getting any good police for his unit, Slim complaining he no longer has muscle worth a drat.
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Dec 3, 2013 02:02
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GreenCard78 posted:I'm pretty sure that is not what 3Romeo meant. I read it as Greeks being sort of the stereotypical old school old money shipping and/or organized crime stuff.
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Dec 3, 2013 06:00
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Orange Devil posted:At best he might get out the game in a way like Marlo was offered, the difference being, Slim would take it and get out. Would he though? I see Slim as having a good level of self awareness, would he really let himself believe that he could run in the business circles like Marlo was offered and Stringer Bell so wanted? In my opinion Slim would end up the next Prop Joe. He seems to be all about efficiency, he gets poo poo done. I can see him with his network established, sitting back in a small shop and avoiding turf wars unless absolutely necessary.
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Dec 3, 2013 21:51
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Joe, yeah. Or maybe like Butchie. Did enough in his younger years to earn respect, but smart enough to know it's better just to keep things quiet. Slim's great strength, like you said, is his self-awareness--he's been around long enough to see both Avon and Marlo lose the crown, but now he's working with people (Vondas and The Greek) who understand the importance of discretion. But like Orange Devil said, I can see Slim selling off the connect after a year or two and retiring like Omar did. Slim's loving awesome.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:02
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Well. For someone who murders people for drug money.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:04
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...in the context of the series.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:53
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Ainsley McTree posted:Well. For someone who murders people for drug money. All in the game, yo
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Dec 3, 2013 23:59
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3Romeo posted:...in the context of the series. In the context of the series he's still a drug dealer and murderer. Yes society has put him in an awful lovely position and he's had little agency in his life and compared to other people in a similar position he comes of comparatively well, but you shouldn't try and romanticise who or what he is. Basically just go and read one of David Simon's criticisms of people who think Omar is so badass and cool, but substitute Slim for Omar.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:01
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I didn't mean it in a mean way (towards you or the other posters talking about him)! I was just noting that it's interesting how a straight-up murderer can come across as a "good guy" depending on your perspective.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:03
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Ainsley McTree posted:I didn't mean it in a mean way (towards you or the other posters talking about him)! I was just noting that it's interesting how a straight-up murderer can come across as a "good guy" depending on your perspective. Easy to respect him for sticking to a code, man's gotta have a code.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:08
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team overhead smash posted:In the context of the series he's still a drug dealer and murderer. Yes society has put him in an awful lovely position and he's had little agency in his life and compared to other people in a similar position he comes of comparatively well, but you shouldn't try and romanticise who or what he is. There's nothing wrong with people loving and even romanticizing characters so long as they acknowledge their shortcomings, especially when it comes to murderous motherfuckers. 
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Dec 4, 2013 00:18
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Parachute Underwear posted:There's nothing wrong with people loving and even romanticizing characters so long as they acknowledge their shortcomings, especially when it comes to murderous motherfuckers.  Rumble-Tumble Motherfuckers
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Dec 4, 2013 00:31
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Jerusalem posted:Maybe capitalism is the wrong word, but I think Marlo represents that same sense that there are people out there who have no sense of morality or right/wrong - there is only what accomplishes their goals, and everything else is a hindrance to be eliminated. Somebody in your way? Remove them. Somebody affects your brand? Destroy them. Somebody seeks to compete with you? Either absorb them or wipe them out. Marlo is a shark, he exists purely to exist, he kills and dominates for no reason other than that he can - there is no emotional connection with anybody else, everybody is a tool to be used for his benefit - even Chris Partlow ends up being discarded/used to ensure Marlo will still be in a position to "be the King". I agree. I never saw Marlo as a beacon of capitalism, either. Marlo was about unchecked (relatively speaking) power and how an amoral person wields it. ChikoDemono posted:There are bits of Stalinism as well. He's the big brother on the streets, always watching. Complete with near mythical secret police in Snoop and Chris. If you cross him, he'll literally make you disappear. Since it's folks from the wrong zip code, it's like you never existed at all. I had the same idea while reading a biography about Stalin (Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar - fascinating but long read. It makes Stalin very human but doesn't make excuses for the actions during his reign). Obviously their personalities, goals and policies don't line up, but the Cult of Personality surrounding both of the men and their methods of tyranny are remarkably similar and probably intentional. The slow takeover of Baltimore could be seen through a certain glass of the formation of the USSR as post-revolution Stalin made land grabs as he saw necessary. In both cases, the Terror / Vacants are the outcome of paranoia about those whom the leaders displaced or suspect as impeding their goals. For Stalin and his court it was something as small as a factory not meeting production (they must be opponents to the Revolution and therefore working to supplant Stalin), for Marlo it was "justified" because he wasn't above the law. Both men regarded their names or at least Stalin's Central Committee had high regard for Stalin's name, while Marlo his name was always important and needed to be impregnable.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:39
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team overhead smash posted:In the context of the series he's still a drug dealer and murderer. Yes society has put him in an awful lovely position and he's had little agency in his life and compared to other people in a similar position he comes of comparatively well, but you shouldn't try and romanticise who or what he is. I mean in the context of him as a fictional character. I admire him for the same reason I admire Al Swearengen or Titus Pullo or Batiatus--they're well-written, well-acted, and well-developed charismatic characters who evolve organically throughout the course of their stories. Slim's loving awesome because he's all of those things, but his story is particularly awesome because he started off as a background character and ended up by accident wearing the crown. I'm romanticising him as a character, not a living breathing person, because--and let's be honest here--while The Wire prides itself on its verisimilitude and we like to use it as a way to document a forgotten part of modern American society, it's still only a television show full of fictional characters and written with a certain agenda and story arc in mind. Even if the stories come from Simon and Burns' experience and even if the characters are based on real people (and even if Simon himself gets petulant about watchers who care more about the characters than the themes), it's still a story using story-telling devices to maximize emotion, full of characters written to propel it. Asbury fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 03:14
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Had the sudden urge to watch the last few episodes of the series again, which I think, despite all the flaws of season 5, are in the same tier as the climactic episodes in every other season. (From 'Clarifications' to -30-, everything outside of the newsroom is fantastic.) I should probably save this for when Jerusalem reviews the episode, but I noticed something in Late Editions (like I say, on par with every other penultimate episode) that makes it even more heartbreaking than before. there seems to be a parallel between Bubbles' tearjerker speech at the NA meeting and the tearjerker final scene between Dukie and Michael. Bubs recalls how in his "youth", he used to love to hang out in the park during summertime, smoking pot, drinking beer and watching the girls go by, and how this ALMOST caused him to get high the other night, only he overcame the urge when he thought of Sherrod. Similarly, when Michael drops off Dukie at the arabbers, Dukie tries to get him to remember the piss balloon adventure from the previous summer, which Michael cannot remember. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but the parallel memories are devastating to me, particularly since Dukie becomes the "new Bubbles."
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Dec 4, 2013 10:12
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Season 5, Episode 5: React QuotesHaynes posted:Just 'cause they're in the street doesn't mean that they lack opinions. Marlo meets with Vondas on a park bench, with Chris and Vondas' man standing to either side looking out over the park for any potential threat. The discussion is Joe - both are fully aware of who killed Joe but both pretend it is some kind of mystery, because there is business to be done. Vondas mourns the passing of Joe, he wasn't just somebody who was good to work with, he was somebody that Vondas actually liked - as Vondas puts it, Joe was a hard man NOT to like... hell, even Avon seemed to like him and Joe was his biggest rival. Marlo nods but notes calmly that tomorrow is promised to nobody, a mindset that helps explain why he acts the way he does - if you only live for today, then long term repercussions don't concern you, you'll just deal with them when they come up and either survive and thrive... or die. Vondas, as always, knows that business is business, so he explains to Marlo the way they will operate if Marlo wants to be their contact with the street from now on - they will only ever speak to either Marlo or Chris, nobody else. Nobody will know their name, or their faces, or anything at all about them other than that somewhere out there, Marlo has a connection to the best quality drugs you can get. Marlo would normally seethe at having conditions imposed on him, but Vondas' conditions fall perfectly in line with his own, and he agrees readily - he doesn't trust anybody but Chris anyway, and he sure as hell doesn't want anybody being in a position to bypass him the way he bypassed Joe. But his success will also prove his downfall, because by becoming the only point of contact, he makes himself vulnerable to exposure of a different sort. Vondas gives him a cellphone, surprising him as one thing Joe was sure to teach him was not to do business by phone. Vondas agrees, saying the phone should only be used for personal things or speaking with his lawyer, but never business. So... why give it to him? Vondas takes the phone and shows Marlo something, and Marlo is surprised and pleased, understanding immediately what Vondas intends. It's kept secret from the viewer for now, but Marlo and Vondas part satisfied that business can continue as normal, with Marlo taking the place of the dear departed Proposition Joe. As he and Chris walk away, Marlo is uncharacteristically happy and even suggests they go out and celebrate, head down to Atlantic City and do some gambling, enjoy the fact that Marlo now finally feels he is wearing "the crown". Chris disagrees though, perhaps the only man alive who can gainsay Marlo safely, reminding him that because they flushed out Omar they don't have the luxury of letting down their guard. Marlo agrees, and Chris asks if he'd mind a detour so Chris can see his "people", and Marlo again demonstrates a rare moment of empathy/humanity by saying that he likes Chris' family. Chris wants to see them because he knows it may be some time before he sees them again (if he lives), because while Marlo has made his move successfully, Chris still has to make his own against the near mythical Omar. McNulty speaks with Alma on the phone, laying more groundwork for his fake serial killer case, getting her attention when he "casually" mentions that the killings appear to be sexual in nature. That of course sparks her interest and she pushes for more, but he deliberately holds back, wanting her to let her mind run wild, offering only that the killer is acting from a sexual compulsion. Once she hangs up, she takes what she has to Gus - some murders and a follow-up on her homeless story that may now involve a sexual angle. Just like "sexual" got her attention, it gets Gus' too, overshadowing the other murders including two East side drug-related homicides that were already being overshadowed. Gus, for all his talk of getting the real story and his impressive catch on Fat Face Rick's property deal, completely misses the significance of the two East side murders - Hungry Man's murder by Cheese and Prop Joe's murder by Chris, both set up by Marlo. He tells Alma to write up what she has on the homeless case and he'll run it by the 4pm budget meeting, and see if it flies. Meanwhile, Bill Zorzi from The Sun is one of many reporters at a Press Conference being held by Rupert Bond, who is soaking up the attention generated by the Clay Davis perp walk and announcing officially that an investigation into Clay's alleged corruption is taking place. He doesn't mince words, outright declaring Clay's guilt rather than taking a more careful,"We're just investigating allegations" approach. While he publicly skewers Clay, Zorzi approaches Pearlman and rather testily points out that she failed to inform The Sun about the earlier perp walk, surprising her since she DID inform The Sun! She called their City Court reporter and left a voicemail message about it, didn't they get it? Zorzi reveals that this particular reporter left The Sun four months earlier, and now it is Pearlman's turn to get testy, as the reporter's voicemail is still working (who knows how many messages have gone unheard) so how the hell would she know that they were't there anymore? Zorzi gives her his card and asks her not to screw him over again like that, acting as if it is still her fault, not exactly getting their working relationship off to a good start. The Conference is being watched live on television by Carcetti and Norman, and Carcetti is reveling in seeing Clay exposed to the light of day... and impressed by Bond's performance. Norman notes that Carcetti will need to make a statement but be careful about making it seem balanced, pointing out the dangers both of appearing too gleeful to Clay's base/supporters, and also the dangers of counting Clay out - you don't dance on his grave till you know the motherfucker is dead. Carcetti seems incredulous at the idea that Clay could still have any support... but Clay is also quickly becoming yesterday's news as far as he is concerned, now he is more interested in Bond. Given his own aspirations to take a shot at Governor before his first term as Mayor is even complete, he doesn't see Bond as a threat but rather an asset. A young, dynamic black politician with Clay Davis' scalp would make for an excellent replacement, far better than Nerese Campbell for sure. Carcetti is already looking to the future, and it doesn't involve any of the old Royce cronies. Chris meets with his "people", the only look we ever get at his home life. It's brief and undetailed - there is an unhappy looking woman, a happy little girl and a shy but happy little boy in a nice little suburban home. Chris is hunkered down teasing the girl with her doll before walking away, waving to the shy little boy who has come out to wave goodbye. Perhaps the most unsettling thing though is the shot of Marlo watching Chris play with the girl. He actually looks genuinely happy and... well... human. The shark-eyed monster is leaning against his car, watching Chris' happy family life with real pleasure, though I don't get any sense of envy or regret from him. When Chris rejoins him, he tells Marlo that he informed his "girl" that he's going away on business for a couple of weeks. Marlo nods, agreeing that dealing with Omar shouldn't take any longer than that, and away they do, back into "the game".   Dukie walks Bug home from school, and in their conversation we get a brief glimpse of what is still going on in the school system - Carcetti fire Burrell because he was brought dirty stats from the police, but is either unaware of doesn't care that the school system is still desperately trying to juke their stats to appear to be more effective than they really are. Bug is being taught the questions that will be on the final test, and being pushed to memorize the right answer so the school can show an "improvement" in test results. The teachers have even straight up told the kids they need better results before the election or they'll be fired (Bug calls it "the selection"), demonstrating just how desperate things are over in the school system despite every available dollar being pumped into their wrecked budget. As they talk, they pass Michael's Corner, where Kenard spots Dukie and angrily insults him, declaring him a bitch for being up in some house while Kenard is out there every day "getting stuff done". When Dukie tries to walk away without a confrontation with the far smaller boy who was once part of the Fayette Street Mafia with him, Kenard bounces a bottle of the back of his head, and Dukie can't let it slide. When Kenard gets up in his face, Dukie smacks him across the face - he's not a fighter but he's far larger than the psychotic little monster - which of course brings him to Spider's attention. Spider, a trained boxer who once technically worked for Dukie, gets right up on Dukie - Kenard might be a little poo poo but he's part of Spider's crew - who, figuring he's taken things this far, decides not to back down and takes a shot at the far bigger boy. Spider immediately begins to pummel him, Dukie dropping to the ground and Spider continuing to rain blows down on him while a horrified Bug watches on. At The Sun Budget meeting, they're discussing a steroids in baseball story before moving on to the front page. Clay Davis will be the front page of course, as well as an article about the war in Iraq, and maybe a piece of John Waters filming in Baltimore if they can get some good photos to go along with it. After a rather off-color joke about Waters' proclivities, they ask for anything else and Gus brings up Alma's homeless murders story. Whiting is surprised to learn there were more homeless murders that they've already done a brief Metro section report on, and Gus explains the sexual element to the crime that the police still aren't getting them full info on. Whiting and Klebanow consider it and decide that it's a bit vague for A1, so they might do something on the inside page, but they'd like Gus to have his reporters work it a little more before they really commit. Gus has no problem with that at all, it's exactly what he would have done, and the meeting breaks up for a couple of hours before they see how their stories are shaping up. Michael walks with Dukie, discussing the beating he took. Michael is pissed and says that Dukie needs to only say the word and Michael will put a beating on whoever did it to him (I'm unclear if Michael is aware it was Spider). Dukie declines, saying he can't rely on Michael to fight his battles for him, so Michael does the next best thing, and takes him to see an old familiar face. It's touching but slightly depressing, Michael has brought Dukie to Cutty's gym, and points him out and tells Dukie that Cutty will look after him. Given how wary and paranoid he was about Cutty's intentions, it's rather sad to see that Michael realized too late that Cutty was genuine in just wanting to help young kids, with nothing sexual about it. Dukie heads inside, where Cutty spots Michael who stands at the threshold for a moment before walking away, clearly full of regret about the way they left things - Cutty bleeding from a gunshot wound after seeking out Michael to apologize to him and tell him he was welcome to return to the gym. With Michael gone, Cutty turns his attention to Dukie, noting the beating he took and asking what he can do. Dukie tells him he's just tired of it happening and wants to be able to defend himself, which Cutty can respect, and he agrees to teach him a few things. Levy is teaching a few things too. Now that Marlo is his client, he's brought Snoop and Chris along to meet him and discuss their own case, the impending gun charge. It's a straightforward case and he's surprised that it has stretched out as long as it has, and Snoop makes him smirk when she points out their former lawyers were being paid by the hour. He can make the case go away almost immediately, they just need to provide a patsy to take the fall for them, somebody they can trust to serve some time and keep their mouth shut. As simply as that, their problems are resolved, and they leave Marlo alone with Levy. Marlo passes over another check for Levy to launder and tells him to call when he knows what he wants to do with it, and takes out his new phone so Levy can get the number. Levy's eyes light up with pleasure at the sight, and after Marlo leaves he gleefully tells Herc that they can expect to be making a lot of money from Marlo very soon. If he's using a phone, then it won't be too long before he's charged by police from evidence collected by wiretap. Sitting back happily like a spider in its web, he notes with just the barest hint of mourning that Joe brought Marlo to him just in time. Just as an aside - dialing the number Marlo gave has a very interesting result. - Final episode spoilers. Dukie spars in the ring but it's not a very impressive sight. he has no sense of timing, no rhythm, and he very quickly loses heart as he is worked into a corner and turtles up, taking a hammering before the bell finally rings. He turns to Cutty and asks what next, leaving the man slightly exasperated. Zorzi is attempting to write his front page article on Clay Davis, but Gus and another editor are hovering over him, interjecting frequently with suggestions, comments and criticisms. Finally he loses his cool and snaps at them to leave him alone to get the article written and THEN they can stomp all over it and get him to rewrite it. They seem amused and also pleased at his fire, and move on to let him work. Alma and Scott have both been spectating, but now that the show is over Alma complains to Scott that she's been asked for more reporting on the homeless murders, but the police won't give her anything more than the fact there is a sexual element. Just like Alma, Gus, Whiting and Klebanow before him, Scott perks up at the word "sexual" and asks who her contact is, surprised to learn it is the detective handling the case - do they actually WANT the publicity?   Omar and Donnie sit a stakeout on Monk's place, a nice place in a condominium building. Donnie notes that he wasn't entirely sure that Omar would return to Baltimore when word reached him about Butchie's death - after all he took a lot of money with him when he went. Omar just quietly notes it was never about money, something which Donnie seems to appreciate. Monk arrives home, shadowed by two bodyguards, and Donnie points out that that they're probably expecting Omar to come after them. "And here I am," agrees Omar quietly,"How about that." McNulty meets with Alma in the bar, not pleased to see Scott has joined her, warning them that he doesn't want his name connected to this story. In a demonstration that Scott does actually have journalistic talent (if he would just develop it), Scott carefully finesses McNulty into giving up more information on the murders. It helps that McNulty WANTS to give them as much information as possible, but Scott does demonstrate an ability to draw out information. He explains that the story is going to get buried again unless they can make it come alive on the page for the reader, and for that they need more "juice" - he has to give them something more than just "a sexual element". McNulty tells them about the red ribbon tied around the wrists, and when that isn't enough he "begrudgingly" gives away that the killer is now biting his victims - inside thigh, buttock, nipple etc. No cannibalism "yet", but it's a sign that the killer is maturing and things could get worse... and that is why he is leaking the story, because people need to know about the "danger" out there. Scott puts some money on the table to pay for the round but excuses himself and Alma, saying if they go now they could still make the second edition of the paper. They leave, and a very satisfied McNulty is left behind. In Levy's office late that night, Herc sneaks in to do what Herc does best - something reckless and stupid to satisfy his own ego. Making a copy of Marlo's number from Levy's rolodex, he heads back out, ready to make some mischief for the guy he still blames for costing him his job. Cutty tidies up his gym for the night, talking with Dukie who is still around. He lays some sad truths on Dukie - this isn't like the movies where you learn to fight, beat up on bully and all the rest run away. People are still going to get in his face and want to fight or beat on him, so even if he does learn to fight is that really the way he wants to live? The two discuss the limitations of opportunities in their life, Cutty freely admitting that all he ever cared for was boxing, and all he could ever do was fight and, for a brief time, work on the corners. Dukie tells him he worked a corner too, and Cutty asks how that worked out for him, proving his point. If somebody comes to him for training and he sees the potential in them, Cutty will do all he can to teach them what he knows - but some people are suited to other things than the street... and there's more to life than just the street. Dukie agrees... but the street is all there is around here, and Cutty has to explain that the world is bigger than just "around her" (remember Bodie not knowing that different cities had different radio stations?), but can offer no advice when Dukie asks just how you get from "here" to the world. They leave the gym, discussing Michael and how he could make life on the street work. Cutty says that when he encounters people who seem like they have more to offer the world, he can't offer them anything other than his best hopes and wishes - all he knows is how to fight. Dukie points out that giving hopes and wishes is something at least, and Cutty sadly offers that he wishes it could be more. The next morning, McNulty picks up a copy of The Sun (once again grabbing a free copy after somebody else has paid for one, cheap motherfu-) and is delighted to see his serial killer has made the front page. Alma finally got her front page headline (above the fold, too!), though it's along with Scott as well, and McNulty has gotten the publicity that he believes will turn the financial faucet back on for the police department.   Reaction to the story is swift. At The Sun, Gus marshals his reporters for the best way to deal with the story - Alma will work on the follow-up piece, Fletch has already been sent out to dig up whatever background he can on the victims (pre-empting Scott, who had been planning on doing that) and Scott himself will go out and get those all too familiar react quotes... but this time from the homeless. Scott isn't pleased about this, but as Gus points out, just because they're homeless doesn't mean they don't have opinions. Scott is somewhat justified in his reaction though, he was the one who gave Alma's story the little push it needed to make the front page, and now he is being relegated to react quotes while somebody completely unattached to the story works back on the actual victims? Meanwhile at Homicide, McNulty arrives and shows off the article to Landsman, who is napping in his chair. The Sergeant is unimpressed, tossing the paper into the trash after admitting that the Major, the Colonel and even the new Deputy Ops have been appraised of the story, and Daniels is actually over at City Hall now briefing Carcetti. McNulty is surprised at how quickly things escalated (did he REALLY not think this through?) but Landsman still looks unimpressed, saying not everybody will have "tricked" like the reporter was, and that Daniels is probably calming Carcetti down and telling him it's not a real case. Keep in mind that Landsman has no idea that McNulty just completely made this up. His reaction is based partly on not wanting his stats ruined and partly on thinking McNulty has gotten overexcited and is seeing connections that aren't there. At City Hall, Daniels fills them in as best he can, though he admits he hasn't debriefed the lead detective on the case yet. Carcetti and Norman are horrified at the sexual element to the crimes, it's that "juice" that Scott was talking about, and both know it reflects extremely poorly on Carcetti if he doesn't come out quickly looking compassionate, caring and pro-active. To that end, he readily agrees to Daniels' suggestion that they provide ACTUAL paid overtime for at least this case, though he still refuses to allow it for more than two detectives. Why? Because while the likes of McNulty might like to believe money is being withheld but actually stills exists, the fact is there is NO money. The School Board is reporting that they're within a hairsbreadth of having to fire over 50 teachers and shut down all special education programs, and Carcetti is actually putting extra strain on them even by allowing overtime for simply TWO detectives. Sure the school's budget deficit wasn't of Carcetti's creation, and he didn't do anybody but himself any favors by turning down the Governor's money... but regardless of WHY it happened, there is still no money to be had - this really is a "do more with less" situation. In the meantime, what can they do to prevent more murders/make the homeless feel safe (or make the public think the homeless are safe)? They can shift foot patrols to areas where the homeless congregate and try to convince them to use city shelters at night, but that's about it. When Carcetti suggests that they stick patrol on areas where the homeless congregate, Daniels reminds him that this means they couldn't answer calls else where in the city.... unless he could clear overtime. Carcetti grumbles that it always comes back to overtime, and Daniels points out again that it's what makes a police department work. Carcetti can't give it to him though, so he'll have to be happy with giving McNulty and another detective overtime so they can work this serial killer case around the clock.... which is exactly what McNulty wanted. Herc pops into the Western where Carver is preparing for his briefing, and Herc breaks his balls a little by saying every day he looks a little more like one of the Bosses. He hands over Marlo's phone number to the surprised Carver, telling him it is a "don't ask, don't tell" situation like guys sucking dick in the army - but when Marlo gets put in cuffs, he wants him to be reminded about stealing Herc's camera. Showing some small measure of self awareness again, he admits that he has done some lovely things to Carver over the years, but he hopes he'll remember that he also did this for him, too. But while one old partnership is bearing fruit, another is causing serious problems. Clay Davis, who once gloried in dealing with the political powers in Baltimore and could rely on their connivance if not their true friendship, is now ranting and raving to a disgruntled looking Nerese Campbell. She has her own problems (she can't have helped but notice how Bond is positioning himself to succeed Carcetti) and has already dealt with Burrell recently, now here is Clay Davis trying to get out of massive and unmistakable fraud and looking to her to help him and poison her own career by association. What's worse, he's making loud noises about how if he falls, he means to take others down with him, and that is something that Nerese can't put up with. She accuses him of trying to have a pity party, chastising him for his pissing and moaning and making a very cynical but accurate point - if he carries this all on himself and the worst result happens, all that will happen is he will lose his seat and spend a year or two in some minimum security "summer camp", before returning to a Baltimore that still knows his name, and power players who appreciate his discretion. She namedrops Burrell, pointing out that he went quietly and as a result he now's working half the hours he did before and making 12k more a year - of course she doesn't mention that he fully intended to bring others down with him only to be talked down by her. So that is the deal she is making Clay - nobody but Royce will stand beside him, since Royce isn't running for election anymore - and if he falls, he'll fall alone... but when he returns, they'll take care of him. That is the best deal he is going to get, and he knows it, and a broken and defeated Clay hangs his head and for once accepts a deal that doesn't personally, immediately benefit him. At Vinson's Rim shop, Marlo, Snoop and O-Dog eat chinese food while waiting for Monk and Chris. O-Dog (he killed Bodie) complains about the way the "chinks" look at him when he orders food, and Marlo tells him not to worry about it - I wonder if at this point he'd already decided that O-Dog would be the one who took the charge for Chris and Snoop. Monk arrives and Vinson immediately picks up on his bulky coat, and they open it to reveal he is wearing a bulletproof vest. Marlo isn't pleased, if Omar knows they're expecting him then he won't take the bait, and Vinson points out that if HE could pick out the vest, then Omar sure as hell will be able to as well. Chris arrives and fills in Marlo on what is going on - he was watching Omar watch Monk last night, but Omar didn't take the bait... but he will eventually. They just need to be patient, and Chris can be very patient when he has to be. Scott talks with one of the workers at Viva House about the homeless murders, and is surprised to hear that none of the homeless appear to have been talking about it. He's left a little out of sorts when the worker reveals that most of the people he spoke with today were not actually homeless, but "working poor", meaning he has "wasted" his time talking to people about their lives and their thoughts and feelings. He asks where he CAN fine homeless, and the worker suggests he try the streets. Scott leaves and the worker pops into the kitchen and jokes with Bubbles about how Scott clearly isn't a Bob Woodward type. He is impressed with how Bubbles has cleaned up in the kitchen, but asks if he'd rather go out and serve people instead? Bubbles, normally a charming and talkative person, seems oddly reluctant to do this, and is told to try it at least once, and if he doesn't like it he can go back to the kitchen. In the same river location where Marlo and his crew practiced with their guns, Michael teaches Dukie how to shoot. Unfortunately, Dukie seems no better at this than he was at fighting. He can't chamber a round, so Michael gives him a small revolver instead. Dukie flinches at the sound of the gunshot and hits way off the target, and moans that he's no good at fighting and can't shoot a gun. Annoyed, Michael him the same advice that Cutty did - people will still try him even if he carries a gun, in fact some will be more likely to try him if they know he has a gun. If Dukie pulls his gun, then he'll have to make a choice to either use it or not, and if he does he has to fire without hesitation, without remorse. To demonstrate, Michael takes several shots, expertly braced, hitting every target - Chris has trained him well... but Dukie isn't like Michael, and they both know it. Michael offers that he has other talents, but that is little comfort.   A pissed off looking Landsman walks up to McNulty's desk and informs him that as of now, he and Kima have been cleared to work as much overtime as necessary to solve the serial killer case. McNulty is pleased... but not at all satisfied, ONLY two detectives? He says he needs money for more men, for surveillance vehicles etc. Landsman, who knows full well that the money for this doesn't exist, just flips McNulty the bird as he walks away. McNulty believes that this is another example of how hosed up the city is, never once considering that maybe if a serial killer can only get two detectives overtime, that maybe, just maybe, there is NO money to be had. What's worse, as Bunk points out, Kima was working a triple homicide and now she's been pulled off to work with McNulty on his face. Furious, he hauls McNulty into interrogation and rips into him - he's showing up drunk or half-lit every second day, screwing around on Beadie, and what's worse, his bullshit fake serial killer has now taken a real homicide detective off of REAL murders. McNulty, as always, can't see for the forest for the trees and insists he'll make everything better if he can just have everything his own way right now (so he's Carcetti), and Bunk storms out in complete disgust. McNulty, having to admit that he has screwed over Kima, goes up to her and tells her to work her triple murder instead, and he'll cover her and make sure that every hour she works is paid for out of the serial killer case. Kima is baffled, but doesn't fight him on it. Scott has headed out onto the street to deal with the homeless, finding them either sarcastic (make an appointment!) or just trying to get some money, and even talking with the clearly mentally disturbed man who swapped business cards with McNulty. Finally he moves down to the harbour and talks to a homeless man who insists he knows who committed the murders - it's Satan walking the earth in human form, possessing souls! Scott leaves in despair, he hasn't been able to find anything newsworthy all day, having not really grasped that he needs to make a story out of what he finds, not find reactions that fit perfectly to the story he's already trying to tell. At the MCU, Freamon is locking up for the night when Carver drives down to see him, amused to find him still working away down there. Freamon laughs that the Bosses can't find him here (it's a different kind of exile to his time in the Pawn Shop Unit) and is amazed when Carver hands over Marlo's cellphone number, especially since as far as he knew Marlo wasn't using a phone anymore. How did Carver get it? The answer from a grinning Carver is a simply,"Police work, detective." With Carver gone, Freamon makes a call to the number and pretends to be a confused man wanting to order pepper steak, confusing and agitating Marlo who tells him he has the wrong number. Delighted at this confirmation that he has Marlo's phone, Freamon decides to take this straight to Daniels - surely now he can get the manpower he needs to finish up the case. Clay Davis appears on a local radio show, attempting to control the narrative by painting the case against him as a race issue. He agrees that Bond is black, but claims that he is a man willing to do whatever "the people pulling the strings" tell him to get ahead - it's just another example of the powers that be trying to tear down a black man who made a success of himself. The host is accommodating and Clay is at his most charming, insisting he has done good things for Baltimore and the real people of Baltimore know that. The host talks up a rally to be held outside the courthouse tomorrow at 2pm to show support for Clay and to let people hear the "truth" - now that Bond has made this case public, he has given Clay the chance to muddy the waters and try and extricate himself from the seemingly inescapable trap he is in. Freamon meets with Daniels to plead with him for just a handful of men to work the Stanfield case, showing him the new working phone number he has for Marlo. He's furious that Daniels can't provide them to him, and demands he go see the Mayor - they have a working number for the man responsible for 22 murders! Daniels loses his cool and lets vent, roaring at Freamon that he's been to the Mayor twice now on bended knee, and the best he's been able to get is Freamon and Sydnor on the Davis case and now two detectives on this serial killer case. If a serial killer can't get more than two detectives, what chance does a new phone number have? Regaining control, he sinks his head into his hand, and Freamon sees what McNulty will never admit and that we never get to see in regards to Klebanow and Whiting over at The Sun - the bosses are all facing pressure from above too, they're not one-dimensional idiots who refuse money and overtime and extra men just because.   At The Sun, Fletch reveals that his background check on the victims revealed one was a former Marine whose family had been begging him to come home. Alma has spoken with McNulty and learned that there is "more manpower" on the case, and Scott arrives late complaining that half the homeless he was talking to were crazy and the other half wanted money. Gus looks pissed but Scott quickly placates him, yes he got good poo poo, and describes a family of four living out of a car beneath the Hanover bridge, the father in tears because he couldn't protect himself and his kids. Gus is impressed but he wants names, after all last time Scott brought a great story he didn't have a name to go with it. Scott looks through his notes and gives the name... which just so happens to be the name of the crazy guy who told him Satan was walking the earth. From memory, this is the first time we outright see a provable bullshit lie by Templeton. McNulty meets with Freamon, the former ranting about the poor response to the serial killer, acting almost as if he thinks it is a real case. Freamon, having already vented his own rage to Daniels, takes a more diplomatic approach and notes that they'll just need to make do with what they can get. They can't use the hours Kima uses since she'll be working her triple murder, but since everything they'll be doing will be illegal anyway, they don't want anybody outside involved... maybe Sydnor, but nobody else. Still, Marlo is using a phone now, which reduces the manpower they'd have needed to set up microphones and surveillance cars on his previous face to face meetings. All they need is a wiretap, and to get that they figure out that they'll have the serial killer make a phone call for his next murder - Oscar will find them a new body, they'll make a call to somebody important and give them details only the killer will know. That will justify a wiretap, and they can provide a bullshit phone number on the paperwork and set up the wiretap to go to Marlo's number for real... after that, they've got him. McNulty and Freamon celebrate, even as McNulty refuses to answer the latest in many missed calls from his ex-wife, complaining he doesn't have time to deal with her bullshit right now. Outside Monk's, Omar and Donnie are still watching the spot carefully, Donnie quietly singing along to the radio. The light goes off on Monk's balcony, and soon after one of the muscle leaves, meaning at least two more are still inside. Donnie notes those are better odds, but Omar says if they keep waiting the odds will get better - soon enough it'll be two of the muscle leaving each night, and that is when they'll make their move. Donnie is impressed, noting that Omar is a patient man, and goes back to bobbing along to the music and singing softly. McNulty heads to Elena's, it turns out "her bullshit" was his son Sean's play. She's pissed, of course, and tells him when she couldn't reach his cell she called Beadie who had no idea where to reach him. He heads upstairs and apologizes to Sean who is playing his guitar, and says hello to Mike who is playing a video game, neither seeming particularly pleased to see their often absent father. He asks Sean to show him a little of his part now but Sean quite rightly says it is lame out of context, and so Jimmy just sits there awkwardly trying to make conversation with his two indifferent children. Finally he leaves, hurriedly telling Elena he'll make it up to them next week with a ballgame or something, and she stops him to echo comments made by Freamon in an earlier season - this is life that is passing him by, all the poo poo that actually matters while he remains wrapped up in his police work (which in this case is completely phony). He assures her he knows, and Elena tells him that she spoke to Beadie who knows that she is losing him. McNulty is uncomfortable and irritated at having this come up now (life) but Elena won't let him go, hitting him with wisdom that comes from experience - Beadie knows that she is losing McNulty in the same way that Elena knew, and it makes Elena sad because for awhile there with Beadie he seemed to be happier than he'd ever been... does he really want to throw that away? McNulty doesn't like having reality shoved in his face like this and just walks away, determined to continue his pursuit of the white whale and force the Police Department to "do the right thing". The next day, Bubbles goes to see Walon at his day job shifting seafood, where he tells him what has been really bugging him recently, and the reason he was reluctant to serve food at Viva House - he thinks he has HIV. Walon, who is living with it, assures him that it isn't transferred that way and if he does have it, there are drugs you can take, but while Bubbles knows that he also wants the peace of mind of knowing one way or the other. He made it to the clinic the day before but couldn't go in, and Walon understand how difficult facing up to something like that is on your own, and tells Bubbles to give him 10 minutes to get off work and he'll go to the clinic with him. At The Sun, Gus sits with Fletch, Alma and Scott and thinks about how best to follow up on the story now. He thinks they've got the basics covered, and decides that Alma will keep track of it through the day and report later that afternoon to figure out if there is anything more that needs work on. In the meantime, Scott and Fletch both have assignments to return to, including Scott's formerly coveted premier spot working on Whiting's school system story. But while it was a coup to get that spot not so long ago, now Scott sees the potential of the homeless story as getting him recognized by one of the bigger papers that he was previously turned down by. Gus agrees the story has legs, but says if it does, Alma will be the one to cover it, and dismisses the reporters. Bunk takes his case files into the interrogation room to review the 22 murders, and is surprised when Beadie knocks on the door. He's pleased to see her because he likes her, but worried because he knows McNulty too well and has seen this all before. He tells her Jimmy isn't in yet and she tells him he's at home sleeping one off, and Bunk tries to laugh it off as a late night out, but she informs him that they're ALL late nights out nowadays. She assures him she isn't looking for a snitch, but she needs to know from him if this is really it - she's about ready to kick him out, and she has to know from somebody who has known him longer than her if this is really the best she can hope for from Jimmy McNulty. Bunk, hating himself, tries to use the serial killer case as an excuse but she dismisses that, she's no civilian and won't have him blame a case for Jimmy's attitude. In the end, the best that Bunk can offer is that he can't tell her what to do, and she sadly leaves the office to return to work, having confirmed her worst fears - her relationship with Jimmy is essentially over. At The Sun, Templeton is asked if he wants to start on the school story and grumpily dismisses the other reporter, saying they'll start after lunch. Seething at being first sidelined and then taken off the story (his bullshit "I can't protect my family" was the headline of the latest edition, by the way), he comes to a vital decision and heads out the door. Driving to a payphone, he calls his own cellphone, takes the "call" and then begins taking notes. Bubbles gets his blood taken at the clinic, joking with the nurse about the difficult of finding a vain, and when she says she is a professional at this he jokes that he is too. It will be roughly an hour before he gets results back, which is likely to be the longest hour of his life - which is why having Walon there with him is so important. At the Court House, Royce is enjoying getting a chance to make speeches again, as he rallies the crowd and speaks up energetically and enthusiastically on behalf of Clay Davis. Reveling in the attention, he works the small but very vocal crowd into a tizzy, accusing "them" of trying to select the community's leaders for it, and At Homicide, Landsman is leering at.... a clothing catalog. Bunk is confused, and Landsman says he is trying a change of pace, some of the women look even better with clothes on. McNulty finally arrives, and is as surprised as Bunk when Landsman gives him the news - the serial killer called a reporter at the Baltimore Sun. McNulty figures it must be a crank call and Landsman agrees, but since this is The Sun they have to take it seriously, so McNulty is to go down there, calm them down and set them straight. McNulty is about to meet another guy willing to fake a serial killer to get what he believes is his just due. Bubbles waits on the test results, smoking a cigarette outside the clinic. Walon steps out with the results but Bubbles can't open them, so Walon does and reads the results - negative. Bubbles looks distraught and a concerned Walon tries to assure him that this means he doesn't have HIV, but Bubbles doesn't cheer up. Finally Walon understands, Bubbles is disappointed, he was sure he must have HIV, and thought this would be a suitable punishment for Sherrod's death. Bubbles tells him about all the times he shared a needle with Johnny, who definitely had HIV, and that it just isn't right that he doesn't have it, but Walon is having none of that. He's trying to make the past mean everything, wanting the universe to punish him for his crime... but the fact is, shame ain't worth as much as he thinks - he has to let it go.   An incredible farce unfolds at The Baltimore Sun, as McNulty and Scott sit across from each other and rather incredulously listen as the other blatantly lies to the other and ends up strengthening the other's bullshit. Scott reads out the "conversation" he had with the serial killer from his notes, throwing in all kinds of details like the killer claiming there would be 12 dead by the end and then he would "go to another place", and that he was angry at being characterized as a pervert because his victims wanted him to bite them. At McNulty's prompting, Scott gives a description of the voice as a white man in his 40s with a calm voice, not too high pitched. How did the killer get his number? Scott was out all over the city giving out his card yesterday, and says he might have even given his card to the killer (technically speaking, this will turn out to be true by the end of the season). McNulty may not be aware at first that Scott is lying, figuring it for a crank call, but when he lies and tells Klebanow, Gus, Scott and the Sun's lawyer that a similar call was made to the BPD earlier that day from a similar location to the payphone Scott's call was made from, he is intrigued by Scott's obvious surprise, and probably realizes at that point that Scott is completely full of bullshit. Knowing that he can make this work to his advantage, he gives the Sun permission to print choice bits of information he has given them but withhold others - no reporting the killer called the police too, for instance, basically nothing that will expose his own lies. He asks for one party consent to wiretap Scott's phone and they immediately say no, and McNulty doesn't push it. Scott, probably thinking he was incredibly lucky to have lied at roughly the same time from roughly the same location as the REAL killer, heads off to type up his notes, and McNulty comments to Gus that this is a pretty big story for them. Gus says that until McNulty showed up and gave credence to it, he thought the story was probably bullshit (probably meaning he thought it was a crank call, not that Scott made it up) and so this just shows what he knows. Once again Omar and Donnie sit watching Monk's condo, unaware that they're being watched themselves by Chris Partlow. Tired of the music, Donnie switches the station and gets Clay Davis protesting his innocence, and switches back to the music. As they sit listening, Omar listens to the music and asks if this is Eddie Cantor (!), and Donnie replies quickly,"No." A delighted Freamon and McNulty work in the utility closet hooking up a wiretap, having claimed that Scott got a call from a cellphone and using Marlo's number on the court paperwork. As Pearlman goes over the paperwork with Landsman, Freamon sets up the wiretap since he has the most experience working them from the MCU - setting up the wires, the wiretap that Homicide will be sitting on will never receive any calls because it isn't actually hooked up to anything, while any call that Marlo does make will be redirected to Freamon at the MCU. Freamon will take any information he gets and assign it to a made-up CI (Fuzzy Dunlop maybe?) and use that to make the case against Marlo. Landsman calls Holley to sit the night shift watching the Wiretap, telling him not to complain since he's getting paid overtime for this. Landsman's dayshift squad will watch things during the day, though none of them will ever receive a call - their wiretap isn't plugged into anything. Later that night at the MCU, Freamon will be thrilled when the Wiretap picks up its first call. The call is almost certainly Chris calling Marlo re: the events we are about to see, but... but Freamon won't know that. Because much to his horror, after all they went through to set this up, what comes up on the wire is... complete gibberish. So what happened? Omar hadnn't taken the bait the previous night, so Chris has made things more alluring - two of the muscle have left Monk's, meaning only one is present. He and Donnie take their guns and head up into the building, kicking down Monk's door thinking the lights are out and Monk is asleep... and walk right into the trap that has been laid so patiently for them. Snoop, Chris, O-Dog and Michael are all present, and Snoop opens fire on Donnie the moment she sees him, and he dives for cover saved only by his bulletproof vest. Omar is horrified but reacts with the reflexes that have kept him alive for so long, twisting his shotgun and blasting O-Dog in the leg, dropping him to the ground. As Omar and Donnie take cover, the others keep up a constant barrage of fire, reloading as the others keep up the fire, never giving either of Butchie's would-be avengers a chance to catch their breath or get their bearings. Snoop roars at O-Dog to stay the gently caress down as he screams about his leg, as Snoop and Michael move in closer to Chris to further concentrate their fire on Omar and Donnie, who are now hiding behind Monk's couch struggling for any protection. Omar scrambles to figure out a way to deal with his situation, and with despair realizes that Donnie isn't hiding from the gunfire, he's lying dead on the floor behind him - Donnie (the real life Omar) is dead.   Omar, the legendary figure who strikes fear into the hearts of people on the street and in "the game", knows in that moment that he is dead. He opens fire on a lampshade in hopes of drawing their fire, but the disciplined Chris, Snoop and Michael just keep on blasting at him. Omar's own gun is now empty, and tucked away behind that couch next to Donnie's cooling corpse, he understands that this is how it ends - Omar tricked and trapped and killed by Marlo's soldiers after being drawn out of retirement by Butchie's torture and murder. Understanding that his life is over, Omar makes the same decision that the real life Donnie Andrews made in a similar situation - he'll end things on his own terms as best he can. Scrambling to his feet, Omar smashes through the window onto Monk's balcony.... and then leaps over the edge and falls four stories to his death. Michael stops shooting, shocked at Omar's unexpected move, and the three of them rush to the balcony to look down at the dead and broken remains of Omar Little, who turned out to be mortal after all..... and there is no body.   Omar lives.
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Dec 4, 2013 12:03
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cletepurcel posted:Had the sudden urge to watch the last few episodes of the series again, which I think, despite all the flaws of season 5, are in the same tier as the climactic episodes in every other season. (From 'Clarifications' to -30-, everything outside of the newsroom is fantastic.) The biggest  Bubbles was probably too nice of a guy or just not cut out for all the bullshit he had to put up with and like Dukie, resorted to getting high. E: Well, maybe not resorted to getting high but took more comfort in getting high than other characters who have been shown getting high.
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Dec 4, 2013 18:53
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I just watched through the whole show for the first time over the last couple of weeks. That was an interesting ride. A lot of my friends thought it was the best show ever made and after watching it, I can agree that it's certainly in the top ten, but I'm not so sure about best ever. The flaws are pretty big and season 5 especially had me getting pretty frustrated with the writing. It's definitely the best police drama I've ever seen, but I guess that just means I need to watch The Shield to actually have something worthy of comparison. I would say the high point for me was season 2. It did such a good job of showing how out of their depth the police department was even when they were being pushed into an investigation and told to find anything they could. For me, that is the only season where the city itself felt like a character. I kind of wish that Carcetti had shown up a bit earlier just because it would have made season 2 really about Baltimore more than anything else. Season 5 was a terrible slog. I really disliked how off the rails McNulty went and felt his character development was more or less a retread of what we've already been through with him. I'm pretty sure you can cut out everything involving the journalists and you're at no loss. You just have to tweak a couple of things like the phone call, but you don't actually need the journalists as characters to pull it off. Really though, the biggest issue is that I don't sympathize with their plight at all. They're all college educated, upper-middle class who have options outside of journalism if they're willing to send out their resumes. The teachers, union workers, students, and corner boys are all way more sympathetic and their plights feel so much realer. I know one of the themes of the show is how the gangster and political worlds are cyclical, but that kind of made the show repetitive to watch. The characters are missing a key piece of information, five episodes go by, they suddenly have that information and can crack the case. In between, some people get betrayed and the balance of power shifts. And by season 5 the show had run out of steam pursuing those things. It tried to tell the same story again with new constraints and it suffered greatly for it. The constraints felt really arbitrary and the outcome inevitable to wrap up the show. It was neat seeing the "origins" of Omar and Bubbles and the new batch of disaffected cops, but we had already seen analogs of those and other characters at other points in the series. I didn't really need to see more "literal" origins. Just my two cents on it. It's great television when it's good, but season 5 overall left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 05:59
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^^^^^^^^ This isn't the exactly the point of the show, but what would you put above it? I don't want this turn into a discussion of the validity of your opinion. I just want to see if there is some amazing shows I've skipped.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:00
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Atlas Hugged posted:Stuff I absolutely agree with you on season 5, but I had no issues feeling it was repetitive prior to that. I think a big part was that they tried to sell the idea of progress, especially thanks to Carcetti, Colvin, and the Coop, and I really did hope along with the characters for a new day; sure it all goes to poo poo, but up through season 4 I think I avoided complete and utter cynicism and hopelessness.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:33
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Hey so I'm curious about something here. Given the level of rampant homophobia in the game, how is Michael so comfortable to go out and put a beating on whoever touched his weaker, male friend that he lives with? Like it's clear to us that they're just good friends, but it seems like it'd be an awful easy rumor to start, and as we learned, people get killed based on rumors and drug dealers hate gays.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:43
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I haven't read the rest of the thread because I don't want to be spoiled, but my wife and I have been watching an episode or two a night the last couple of weeks and just finished season 2 last night. The episode re-caps that have been put together in this thread are amazing, and I have really enjoyed coming in the next day and reading back through the episode that I watched the night before. It has been really helpful pointing out some of the little details we might have missed or even helping dissecting some of the scenes for us. Season 3 starts tonight and I'm excited already.
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Dec 5, 2013 18:59
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Orange Devil posted:Hey so I'm curious about something here. Given the level of rampant homophobia in the game, how is Michael so comfortable to go out and put a beating on whoever touched his weaker, male friend that he lives with? Like it's clear to us that they're just good friends, but it seems like it'd be an awful easy rumor to start, and as we learned, people get killed based on rumors and drug dealers hate gays. Michael at that point in the show is fairly high level muscle for Marlo, he doesn't have any fear of people loving with him for stupid poo poo that isn't even true, and the people that he actually does need to impress(Snoop, Chris, Marlo) know exactly what the situation is with him and Dukie.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:24
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Sneaky Fast posted:^^^^^^^^ Edit: It's not really important what shows I liked more. Some shows I feel are better overall. Just check out Archer, Babylon 5, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad. Those are all excellent at what they set out to do. Thaddius the Large posted:I absolutely agree with you on season 5, but I had no issues feeling it was repetitive prior to that. I think a big part was that they tried to sell the idea of progress, especially thanks to Carcetti, Colvin, and the Coop, and I really did hope along with the characters for a new day; sure it all goes to poo poo, but up through season 4 I think I avoided complete and utter cynicism and hopelessness. I started feeling it was repetitive in season 3. They're not covering new ground with the wire taps. Really, it's all the same thing. Somehow, MCU ends up with the number and they work a tap from it. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 19:40
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Geekslinger posted:I haven't read the rest of the thread because I don't want to be spoiled, but my wife and I have been watching an episode or two a night the last couple of weeks and just finished season 2 last night. The episode re-caps that have been put together in this thread are amazing, and I have really enjoyed coming in the next day and reading back through the episode that I watched the night before. It has been really helpful pointing out some of the little details we might have missed or even helping dissecting some of the scenes for us. Word of warning: the recaps will sometimes make reference to the events of future seasons (I think), so even if you stick to reading just the recaps for episodes that you've already watched, you still run the risk of getting spoiled.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:41
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Despite all the poo poo that the writing gets for this season, I feel like "React Quotes" is one of the best-written episodes of the season and probably top 10 for the series. The dialogue is really stellar. Going through the recap I remember several pieces of dialogue that completely and totally stand out for me. 1) Freamon and the pepper steak 2) The worker at Viva house saying how it looked like Scott was just having such a good time! 3) Michael and Dukie shooting guns in the woods. 4) "Like two dudes suckin dick in the army." In spite of how much you end up hating his character, as Simon says you could listen to him read a phone book. 5) Bubbles getting his negative test result. This is on top of the mystery set up in this episode about what exactly Vondas shows Marlo about the cell phone.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:13
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Orange Devil posted:Hey so I'm curious about something here. Given the level of rampant homophobia in the game, how is Michael so comfortable to go out and put a beating on whoever touched his weaker, male friend that he lives with? Like it's clear to us that they're just good friends, but it seems like it'd be an awful easy rumor to start, and as we learned, people get killed based on rumors and drug dealers hate gays. As we saw earlier in this season, Michael is utterly bewildered why Marlo would want to kill Junebug for MAYBE saying that Marlo sucked dick, because Marlo doesn't suck dick so what's the big deal? If somebody started spreading around that him and Dukie were lovers, I can only imagine he'd just laugh it off for being so ridiculous. I never thought I'd make this comparison, but....  Geekslinger posted:I haven't read the rest of the thread because I don't want to be spoiled, but my wife and I have been watching an episode or two a night the last couple of weeks and just finished season 2 last night. The episode re-caps that have been put together in this thread are amazing, and I have really enjoyed coming in the next day and reading back through the episode that I watched the night before. It has been really helpful pointing out some of the little details we might have missed or even helping dissecting some of the scenes for us. I'm really glad they're enhancing your enjoyment, but please so be wary of spoilers if you can - I hope I don't give away anything too massive for you!
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Dec 5, 2013 21:49
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I just bought the full 5 seasons for my father's christmas, really excited to watch it again for the second time.
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Dec 5, 2013 22:42
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Atlas Hugged posted:I started feeling it was repetitive in season 3. They're not covering new ground with the wire taps. Really, it's all the same thing. Somehow, MCU ends up with the number and they work a tap from it. The show isn't really about the police or the cases, and never has been. The cases are just a framework with which to hang on bigger themes which run through the show.
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Dec 6, 2013 00:51
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No disagreement that the show isn't really about the wiretaps, but it's hard not to be annoyed at the literal plot even when the themes are interesting. Just because I'm not watching a show that's "about" wiretaps doesn't mean they don't feature prominently and repetitively into the plot.
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Dec 6, 2013 04:28
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Atlas Hugged posted:No disagreement that the show isn't really about the wiretaps, but it's hard not to be annoyed at the literal plot even when the themes are interesting. Just because I'm not watching a show that's "about" wiretaps doesn't mean they don't feature prominently and repetitively into the plot. I think this is just a quirk for you that maybe other people don't share very much. But fair enough, different strokes. You're right about the 5th season tho.
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Dec 6, 2013 04:47
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Can someone give me a link to whatever article has Simon criticizing people for enjoying Omar so much? I'll be straight up, I love Omar. I love his mannerisms, I love his speech patterns, I love his charisma, and love that he whistles to scare people. There is just something so very primal yet reformed about him, he's like an educated lion. I think I enjoy him in the same way that I enjoy The Comedian. It's hard to explain and maybe I really am a bad person. I don't know.
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Dec 6, 2013 05:12
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omg chael crash posted:Can someone give me a link to whatever article has Simon criticizing people for enjoying Omar so much? I think it's less him morally criticizing them for liking Omar (it's not like, say, the debate over "rooting for" Walt in Breaking Bad) but just his frustration when conversations about the show tend to be people talking about who was the best character and not so much about the social commentary/themes. On the morality count there's only a handful of truly despicable, awful characters (Clay Davis, Levy, Herc). I'd count Marlo but pretty much every character including him is supposed to be a product of their institutions. Although only the latter two of those characters are awful on screen as well, I love the poo poo out of every Clay scene and don't care. As noted above, even Herc has some funny lines too, despite being a complete piece of poo poo. grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 08:02
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Clay Davis was amazing. He was so slimy he shined. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. And even as awful as Herc was, he was still responsible for bringing Marlo down.
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Dec 6, 2013 08:53
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I wouldn't put Herc up with guys like Levy or Clay Davis. Even though he does wind up in their 'camp' at the end of the series and certainly isn't without some dirt on him he's at least shown to value poo poo besides his own well being. I never saw him as being all that bad a guy. He was a bad cop, sure, but it wasn't because he was intentionally malicious like Colicchio or Walker. Hercs problem was that he was ignorant, a gently caress up with too much power. When he was working with Kima and Carver and the others his mistakes could be mitigated. When he was put in charge though, every problem reverberated out into the world causing real damage to the people around him. When he promised to help Bubbles out I think he genuinely meant it. As selfish as his motivation was in going to him in the first place it's telling that he did try to make amends. His response with the grape soda and fried chicken was some weak poo poo but it probably seemed like a great idea in his head. Bubs is homeless right, so what better way to apologize than to give him a hot meal? That he didn't seek any reprisal against Bubbles after the poo poo with the minister is telling too. Maybe he didn't catch on to the fact that Bubbles was intentionally loving him, he certainly never meant to intentionally gently caress Bubs over the many times he did it. But he never even bothers to confront him on it. I doubt many of the other bad cops in the series would be so willing to let poo poo like that go. Then there's how he handled it when IID finally came knocking. It's a very brief moment but when the investigators arrive looking for information on the missing camera they ask for Sydnor and Dozermen as well, as all three had paperwork tying them back to the camera. I doubt he would have had the wits to try and dump the blame on the other guys but he doesn't even try. As soon as IID starts asking about it he immediately takes full responsibility for it and covers for the others. No small amount of selflessness given that it cost him his career.
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Dec 6, 2013 10:19
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One of my favorite scenes is when Levy pinches Herc's cheek and invites him over for dinner. Those two make such a great power duo.
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Dec 6, 2013 10:59
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