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Jurgan posted:Am I the only one who didn't want to beat up Joker in the end? I felt sorry for him, kind of, and he was completely trapped, so I just wanted to leave and let the police take him, but the game forced me to give a beatdown. I guess I take the "no kill" policy a little further, and would prefer to do the minimum amount of violence necessary to stop the villains. Well, in the case of the Joker he personally threw Joker off that building. If he hadn't saved him it would've been personally committing murder. But Ra's had put himself in that position, he was the one who sent that train on the course it was and he was the one who put that knife in the controls. I think a lot of versions of Batman would've still saved Ra's, but it's technically not the same as the Joker thing. Sex_Ferguson posted:I found pummeling the poo poo out of the Joker at the end to be very cathartic because I am so very loving tired of seeing him now, especially in this game when I was looking forward to Black Mask. What made you excited for Black Mask? He generally seems like a pretty lame villain to me. Not trying to start poo poo or say you're wrong, just genuinely curious. Synonymous posted:Bit of a lore question (because I kinda think Joker would like having that secret knowledge. It'd freak Sharp out knowing someone like the Joker could spill his secrets at any moment.
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Dec 5, 2013 03:53
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), but 
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Beeez posted:What made you excited for Black Mask? He generally seems like a pretty lame villain to me. Not trying to start poo poo or say you're wrong, just genuinely curious. Black Mask isn't like... a super cool villain or anything, but I was happy to see they were going to use THE Mafia Boss in the Batman series for an origin game of Batman. Black Mask doesn't exactly have grandiose amazing plans, but he's a fun character to watch put together plans. He's got a secretary who has snide back and forth with him, he's genuinely pretty snarky himself, and will lose his poo poo at the drop of a hat. On top of that, the dude can be a cold motherfucker mafioso when he's actually handling people who aren't his clients or employees. From a character perspective, he's actually a reflection of Bruce Wayne, the side we never get to see in any of these games because he's already taken on the "Dark Knight" ideology by the points these games happen. He's a millionare who had lovely parents, ran his company into the ground, and also has a snarky secretary that helps him get his plans together. I mean, he's not final boss material or anything, but he would've been perfect for what they were trying to do. The story ended up being good, but I'm just tired of Joker at this point. If I did not see him as a major character in anything Batman for the next five years, I would have no complaints because I've just seen so loving much of him since The Dark Knight and I want someone to actually explore another part of Batman's rogues.
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Dec 5, 2013 04:34
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Black Mask isn't like... a super cool villain or anything, but I was happy to see they were going to use THE Mafia Boss in the Batman series for an origin game of Batman. Black Mask doesn't exactly have grandiose amazing plans, but he's a fun character to watch put together plans. He's got a secretary who has snide back and forth with him, he's genuinely pretty snarky himself, and will lose his poo poo at the drop of a hat. On top of that, the dude can be a cold motherfucker mafioso when he's actually handling people who aren't his clients or employees. From a character perspective, he's actually a reflection of Bruce Wayne, the side we never get to see in any of these games because he's already taken on the "Dark Knight" ideology by the points these games happen. He's a millionare who had lovely parents, ran his company into the ground, and also has a snarky secretary that helps him get his plans together. I mean, he's not final boss material or anything, but he would've been perfect for what they were trying to do. The story ended up being good, but I'm just tired of Joker at this point. If I did not see him as a major character in anything Batman for the next five years, I would have no complaints because I've just seen so loving much of him since The Dark Knight and I want someone to actually explore another part of Batman's rogues. Oh, I agree with all that then. I think a really good story could be told combining the old, Doug Moench version of Black Mask who's a pathetic loser rich boy who tries to use a mask to make himself into something he's not(which is a good distinction between him and Batman in that Bruce actually is what he set out to turn himself into) and the newer, Ed Brubaker gangster version into one thing, where he's a pathetic rich boy who idolizes gangsters and tries to turn himself into one without really considering the consequences, just so he can unleash his sadistic urges. He could definitely be the center of an interesting character study in a Walter White vein. I just don't think he's cunning or physically imposing enough to ever be a main villain of anything. The manner he's used in Under the Red Hood/Under the Hood is about his speed, I'd say.
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Dec 5, 2013 04:41
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Next game needs to have Baby-Doll as the villain.
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Dec 5, 2013 04:52
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Only if Crazy Quilt and Film Freak are the secret masterminds this time.
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Dec 5, 2013 04:53
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Clock King or I riot.
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Dec 5, 2013 04:54
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Clock King. 
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Dec 5, 2013 04:54
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The next game should have a skin where you get to play as Calendar Man's original costume:
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Dec 5, 2013 04:56
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Clock King's back to being a Green Arrow villain now. Get with the progrum guys.
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Dec 5, 2013 04:56
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Beeez posted:Clock King's back to being a Green Arrow villain now. Get with the progrum guys. Yeah, 'cause Arrow never steals any of Batman's villains. gently caress that, I want the Ventriloquist and Socko!
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Dec 5, 2013 04:58
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, 'cause Arrow never steals any of Batman's villains. Haha good point. I don't watch Arrow but I half expect to hear they accidentally called Ollie Bruce in some upcoming episode.
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Dec 5, 2013 05:08
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Upon replaying the game, I laughed really hard at the intro during the TV snippets where Vicki Vale is interviewing Bruce and asking why he's still single. And in his angry Batman voice he goes  you missed your chance as if she was a street thug he was going to pound into the pavement. I get Batman being angry and aggressive in his early years (and two years in is a lot of angry mind you) but I don't know if it was intentional that it would spill into his Bruce Wayne life or they just snipped off a recording from earlier and pasted it into the intro.I mean at least they got Bruce to be boyish billionaire for the 5 seconds he was in the City intro before they hauled him into Arkham City.
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Dec 5, 2013 05:10
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Conroy was just really good at distinguishing between his Batman and Bruce Wayne voices. I've always wondered why they did away with that aspect in the later seasons of the animated series, whether it was done deliberately to show how Batman's personality was slowly eclipsing Wayne's. Or maybe I put too much thought into these things.
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Dec 5, 2013 05:16
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I don't necessarily think that Conroy's portrayal of Batman is absolute, but I do think he's unquestionably the best at differentiating between Bruce and Batman. There's a great bit in the first episode of BTAS (I think) where he bounces back and forth between the two voices that is awe-inspiring. As others have said, I understand the reasons behind Batman's No Kill rule. But I find it absurd to have stories where the Joker walks around as a nominally free man (i.e. escaped from Arkham) and absolutely no one just shoots the rear end in a top hat. If you read the comics for any sustained amount of time, Joker's body count would basically be a significant chunk of Gotham - everyone would have an aunt or uncle who died because of Joker's crazy schemes.
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Dec 5, 2013 05:42
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Narcissus1916 posted:As others have said, I understand the reasons behind Batman's No Kill rule. But I find it absurd to have stories where the Joker walks around as a nominally free man (i.e. escaped from Arkham) and absolutely no one just shoots the rear end in a top hat. Yeah, I remember reading some stories about gangsters who were so odious to the police that when they inevitably got whacked by their mob rivals, the cops would just do a cursory, half-assed investigation and then let it drop. Costumed vigilante or no, I think if psychotic lunatics like the Joker or Mad Hatter turned up one day with their necks snapped, the GCPD probably wouldn't do much about it.
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Dec 5, 2013 05:50
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, 'cause Arrow never steals any of Batman's villains. No joke but I loved having Scarface make appearances in Asylum and City, and would love to see him and the Ventriloquist get a sideline mission of some sort in the next game.
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Dec 5, 2013 06:17
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Beeez posted:Oh, I agree with all that then. I think a really good story could be told combining the old, Doug Moench version of Black Mask who's a pathetic loser rich boy who tries to use a mask to make himself into something he's not(which is a good distinction between him and Batman in that Bruce actually is what he set out to turn himself into) and the newer, Ed Brubaker gangster version into one thing, where he's a pathetic rich boy who idolizes gangsters and tries to turn himself into one without really considering the consequences, just so he can unleash his sadistic urges. He could definitely be the center of an interesting character study in a Walter White vein. I just don't think he's cunning or physically imposing enough to ever be a main villain of anything. The manner he's used in Under the Red Hood/Under the Hood is about his speed, I'd say. He was pretty much the main villain in Under the Hood. (He also did not hire the Joker there which was smart of him) He was really effective as the main villain of War Games in which he masterminded him becoming the most powerful criminal in Gotham, killed a Robin, destroyed Oracle's Clocktower and nearly beat Batman to death. He is also pretty physically tough. He managed to best both the Joker and Red Hood before and during the Oracle's Clocktower fight it was very clear to Barbara that Black Mask and Batman were going to kill each other unless the fight was stopped. The dude is utterly fearless for the most part as well having attacked people like the Joker and the Red Hood with no fear of death. His back story is interesting with him having known Bruce since they were kids and hating him with a passion. (Hush seemed to have ripped that part off.) Honestly I think he could have held this game as the main villain pretty much everything the Joker did while acting as him in the game was perfectly in character for him in the comic's (Were I would say he is even more sadistic and cruel then the Joker.)
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Dec 5, 2013 06:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:He was pretty much the main villain in Under the Hood. (He also did not hire the Joker there which was smart of him) He was really effective as the main villain of War Games in which he masterminded him becoming the most powerful criminal in Gotham, killed a Robin, destroyed Oracle's Clocktower and nearly beat Batman to death. War Games was easily one of the worst Batman stories in recent memory so that isn't exactly something that makes people buy him as a meaningful threat/
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Dec 5, 2013 06:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:He was pretty much the main villain in Under the Hood. (He also did not hire the Joker there which was smart of him) He was really effective as the main villain of War Games in which he masterminded him becoming the most powerful criminal in Gotham, killed a Robin, destroyed Oracle's Clocktower and nearly beat Batman to death. Actually I think Black Mask did hire the Joker in Under the Red Hood. For about 5 seconds, until the Joker locked him in a truck and poured gasoline all over him. That War Games thing seems kinda dumb, Black Mask is just a fit dude with anger issues. He shouldn't be able to go toe-to-toe with loving Batman of all people.
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Dec 5, 2013 06:45
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No, Under the Hood is the story Under the Red Hood is adapted from. In that one Black Mask never hired Joker and Joker had already been kidnapped by Red Hood and beaten with the crowbar. Under the Red Hood changed quite a few things from the original story and it's better for that because the original story sucked.
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Dec 5, 2013 06:58
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ImpAtom posted:War Games was easily one of the worst Batman stories in recent memory so that isn't exactly something that makes people buy him as a meaningful threat/ Yeah, this is the thing. War Games sucks and he was really in the right place at the right time to take over Gotham's underworld, it's not as though he got control over the underworld entirely through his own merit. And again, I can buy him and Penguin as the top mob guys once all the non freakish ones lose their power in Gotham or die, but I don't think they have what it takes to be one of the top arch-nemeses of Batman. Hell, I would include Two-Face among that grouping if not for the fact that he's Bruce Wayne's/Batman's friend gone evil, which places him in higher standing than the guys who are pretty much just mob bosses who look weirder and have more money. Sex_Ferguson posted:No, Under the Hood is the story Under the Red Hood is adapted from. In that one Black Mask never hired Joker and Joker had already been kidnapped by Red Hood and beaten with the crowbar. Under the Red Hood changed quite a few things from the original story and it's better for that because the original story sucked. Yeah, Under the Red Hood is much better and isn't caught up in all the Infinite Crisis continuity garbage that Under the Hood is.
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Dec 5, 2013 07:10
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Phylodox posted:Conroy was just really good at distinguishing between his Batman and Bruce Wayne voices. I've always wondered why they did away with that aspect in the later seasons of the animated series, whether it was done deliberately to show how Batman's personality was slowly eclipsing Wayne's. Years ago I interviewed Kevin Conroy at a local comicbook convention, and asked him about this specifically. He mentioned that there was deliberate instruction for him to not use a different "Bruce Wayne" voice as part of...I think it was when the show switched to Kids WB? I totally recorded that interview, and could swear I had posted the audio of it as part of a podcast but it's not in there which annoys me greatly. There's no way I wouldn't have posted it shortly after getting it unless something was wrong with the recording. That convention had no interview rooms, so maybe the audio just wasn't salvageable? It's too bad, since he had a great story about volunteering at a cafeteria for the rescue teams during 9/11 and them finding out "BATMAN has been serving us lunch!" I know I also talked to the recently-deceased Marcia Wallace at the same convention, but all I remember is that she wouldn't record a "you're listening to..." bumper since "I get paid to do that." In any case, someone high up told Kevin Conroy "it will confuse kids if the same person uses different voices" so he stopped. Wasn't much of a factor later on, but by that point there wasn't much of "Bruce Wayne" in the scripts. In an attempt to be on topic: I did a barely-organized braindump of my thoughts on Arkham Origins shortly after beating it. It isn't really anything that others in this thread haven't already said, but it is interesting to me that I can see how many people on Steam thought it "helpful."
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Dec 5, 2013 07:17
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Daryl Surat posted:In an attempt to be on topic: I did a barely-organized braindump of my thoughts on Arkham Origins shortly after beating it. It isn't really anything that others in this thread haven't already said, but it is interesting to me that I can see how many people on Steam thought it "helpful." I actually appreciated the details that went into the really big detective case (Lacey Towers) on a second playthrough like the ornaments that got scattered around and everything even though I'm sure they went through it with a fine-tooth comb (unlike some details). Henchmen dialogue in free roam is okay. It ranges from what you said "oh woe is me I have to resort to crime on Christmas eve" to "Batman is a thing? Really?" and if you spend enough time inbetween story events in the city the henchemen that litter the city do in fact have lines for recent events (depending on what faction they are) and stuff like crimes in progress and enemies on rooftops change accordingly, which is a nice touch. But the most fun is when people say "Batman? Sounds like a myth, like some bad excuse some other mook made up to explain why he is a failure of a criminal" followed by me dropping in and saying hi with my fists.
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Dec 5, 2013 08:36
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Sober posted:Henchmen dialogue in free roam is okay. It ranges from what you said "oh woe is me I have to resort to crime on Christmas eve" to "Batman is a thing? Really?" and if you spend enough time inbetween story events in the city the henchemen that litter the city do in fact have lines for recent events (depending on what faction they are) and stuff like crimes in progress and enemies on rooftops change accordingly, which is a nice touch. Didn't you hear the thugs debating about how Batman goes to the can? I thought it was pretty funny at least.
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Dec 5, 2013 13:47
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Daryl Surat posted:He mentioned that there was deliberate instruction for him to not use a different "Bruce Wayne" voice as part of...I think it was when the show switched to Kids WB? I figured it was something like that, but it does dovetail nicely with the character arc they set up for him over the course of the animated series and Batman Beyond.
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Dec 5, 2013 14:48
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Sober posted:I actually appreciated the details that went into the really big detective case (Lacey Towers) on a second playthrough like the ornaments that got scattered around and everything even though I'm sure they went through it with a fine-tooth comb (unlike some details). The effect is certainly neat, but there's not really a gameplay aspect in which you, the player, are "solving" anything. Batman says "I should look at that thing" until you look at that thing, at which point the crime scene reconstruction assembles a highly elaborate series of events which Batman narrates based on minimal evidence. I will accept this because it's the Bat-computer, but the most "detective work" required of the player is to rewind the point at which you can see the object in question go flying off to some location, and by this I mean "the red line the computer draws for you." For the previous games this was easy to accept, but now that they've drawn much more attention to the crime solving aspects in Origins it's harder to overlook. I also wish there was some method of getting some idea of where the Anarky tags and Pinkney statues are the way you can for the extortion data. I went through the whole game seeing those Cyrus Pinkney plaques and holding the Detective Mode button on them only for the Environment Scanner to say "no subject detected." Turns out that it only counts if you are walking around in Detective Mode and THEN you activate the scanner. That makes sense for something like a hidden tag that's only visible in that mode, but the plaques are physical objects! When I finally realized my mistake, I thought "crap, now I'll never remember where those other ones were." At that point, I just wimped out and hit a Youtube walkthrough.  The only chance you have of finding the tags/plaques legitimately is if you run around with Detective Mode on all the time. I know lots of people do that already, but I don't feel like the game should actively encourage people to do so.In the end, I never found all the tags. I suppose I could wuss out and look those up on Youtube as well, but the reward for finding them all is basically nothing. You get to read some text descriptions of the buildings and how people have used them to exploit their power, but that's it. At least the "spirit of Arkham" from Asylum had SPOOKY voiceover. Daryl Surat fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 16:36
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Sex_Ferguson posted:No, Under the Hood is the story Under the Red Hood is adapted from. In that one Black Mask never hired Joker and Joker had already been kidnapped by Red Hood and beaten with the crowbar. Under the Red Hood changed quite a few things from the original story and it's better for that because the original story sucked. True, the original story is a bit contrived, but it still featured IMO one of the most subtly badassed Batman moments I've ever read, when the the Red Hood unmasks Batman. When I read it, I couldn't help but remember and compare it to an old Spider-man story I read where he is also unmasked and freaks out, even covering his face with webbing to hide. Batman just sits there, stone-cold, in the rain, not giving a gently caress about his identity being revealed. I even made it my avatar.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:11
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Daryl Surat posted:In the end, I never found all the tags. Searching blind for the plaques absolutely blows, as well. At least the Anarky tags are going to be somewhere on key buildings. redbackground fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 18:18
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I still wish that Dark Knight Rises had instead been about Black Mask swooping in to take over Gotham post-mob bosses getting killed off, with Catwoman being added into the mix and maybe someone like the Penguin getting involved in the mob wars, too. They had no problem rehashing Joker, why would Penguin/Catwoman be any different. Would have been better than the steaming pile of poo poo we got.
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Dec 5, 2013 18:21
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I really wouldn't call The Dark Knight Rises a steaming pile of poo poo. I quite enjoyed it for what it was. My only big gripe was the eight year gap between that movie and the preceding one...an eight year gap in which nothing happened. They could have done the same thing and intimated at all kinds of weird adventures Batman had gotten up to in the meantime, but...hmmm...nope, he quit right after Dent died, Joker was immediately executed, sorry. I think that was my big problem with the Nolan films. For all their spectacle they felt so...small. Despite all of Bruce's talk of being a symbol and such, Nolan really didn't seem interested in exploring the whole "Batman as mythology" aspect. Everything felt so limited that you couldn't really see the series going anywhere really exciting after the second movie. The third movie did feel like a step down, which was disappointing. I think it suffered from both Heath Ledger's death and the fact that I don't think Nolan was really all that invested in making a third Batman film.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:43
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Narcissus1916 posted:As others have said, I understand the reasons behind Batman's No Kill rule. But I find it absurd to have stories where the Joker walks around as a nominally free man (i.e. escaped from Arkham) and absolutely no one just shoots the rear end in a top hat. In the real world, absolutely. The second one of these madmen was out of view, they'd be dead. But in the comics, there's two things protecting the crazies. First and most obvious is plot armor. But these guys are also incredibly good at appealing to the lowest common denominator and having a cadre of mooks surrounding them to absorb the stray bullet or blade. And finally, in the case of the Joker especially, What happens if you miss? Because if you don't kill that guy on your first try, you won't likely get a second one. Daryl Surat posted:I went through the whole game seeing those Cyrus Pinkney plaques and holding the Detective Mode button on them only for the Environment Scanner to say "no subject detected." Turns out that it only counts if you are walking around in Detective Mode and THEN you activate the scanner. That makes sense for something like a hidden tag that's only visible in that mode, but the plaques are physical objects! When I finally realized my mistake, I thought "crap, now I'll never remember where those other ones were." In the game's defense, you aren't scanning the plaques, but the diary pages that are inside the plaques.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:51
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Still if there is one thing I like about Black Mask its that he had a great deal of chemistry with Bruce Wayne with the two of them having known each other for years. Despite that this is now being ignored so Hush can take that role. Still I think he could have held the game on his own if they had let him. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 19:52
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I was kind of annoyed by the Penguin plot line. I thought they were going to do much more with it but it just peters out.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:22
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Just beat Origins. What people were saying about it having the best story is true. That said...gently caress fighting Bane. God, I hated those fights. EDIT: So...am I to understand that WB Montreal's next project will be a Suicide Squad game? Phylodox fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 22:59
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Could somebody either tell me or link me a walkthrough that shows how to get to the evidence room in the GCPD? I've just reached the server room and it wants me to go back and get the disruptor
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Dec 6, 2013 03:04
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Crackbone posted:Could somebody either tell me or link me a walkthrough that shows how to get to the evidence room in the GCPD? I've just reached the server room and it wants me to go back and get the disruptor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqH0DTj7DIo
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Dec 6, 2013 03:37
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Crackbone posted:Could somebody either tell me or link me a walkthrough that shows how to get to the evidence room in the GCPD? I've just reached the server room and it wants me to go back and get the disruptor If you're where I think you are, just try opening the door on the left. The annoying thing is that door is locked until Batman says he needs it, and then it's magically unlocked.
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Dec 6, 2013 03:38
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Jurgan posted:If you're where I think you are, just try opening the door on the left. The annoying thing is that door is locked until Batman says he needs it, and then it's magically unlocked. Wow, what the gently caress. That's some seriously poo poo design.
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Dec 6, 2013 04:22
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A similar problem occurs for one of the Riddler rooms. You're supposed to use the glue grenade to make a raft to get to the door, but I found it before I had the grenade and was able to get there by diving and pulling up to skim along the water. The door is locked. When you go back later with the grenade, the door is unlocked. It's pointless, though, because you still need the glue grenade once you get in, so they could have let me in and then I still would have had to turn back. Instead, I spent a good ten minutes or so looking for an unlocked door.
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Dec 6, 2013 04:33
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Why the gently caress am I better at this game when there's no counter icons?
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Dec 6, 2013 04:54
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