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So now we'll get poor performing controllers with little validation! 
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Dec 3, 2013 17:03
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:28 |
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So I've been looking at the amount of data that is written on my SSD everyday and the numbers are quite alarming. I assume it's related to the amount of HD youtube/netflix streaming that I do. If I do 20-30GB write per day on a 256GB drive, is it going to crap out on me in 2-3 years like the OP suggested? Why is it writing so much!
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Dec 3, 2013 20:30
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dzarc posted:So I've been looking at the amount of data that is written on my SSD everyday and the numbers are quite alarming. I assume it's related to the amount of HD youtube/netflix streaming that I do. If I do 20-30GB write per day on a 256GB drive, is it going to crap out on me in 2-3 years like the OP suggested? Why is it writing so much! Depending on your drive you could easily get a couple decades with 20-30 gb a day.
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Dec 3, 2013 20:36
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Getting real antsy about the lack of M.2 SSDs now. It was a lot easier before I had this laptop in my hands, but now I am just offended by that tiny 16GB M.2 SSD that shipped as a spinning disk cache 
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Dec 3, 2013 20:36
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Factory Factory posted:getting a free OCZ for their trouble (plus a large warranty liability). They didn't buy OCZ out right, just the SSD assets. Toshiba is just fronting them the money to stay in business while the paperwork for the sale goes through, which is expected to take 2-3 months. That whole “warranties will be honored and their support status will remain unchanged” probably means while the sale is pending and after that support will be a legacy link on the OCZ site for old drivers and that's it.
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Dec 3, 2013 20:40
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dzarc posted:So I've been looking at the amount of data that is written on my SSD everyday and the numbers are quite alarming. I assume it's related to the amount of HD youtube/netflix streaming that I do. If I do 20-30GB write per day on a 256GB drive, is it going to crap out on me in 2-3 years like the OP suggested? Why is it writing so much! Streaming shouldn't be writing tons of stuff to a drive anyhow, but even if it is- 20 gigs a day, every day, is still going to last well in excess of 5 years most likely. Take a look at the table on this page: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/samsung-ssd-840-evo-review-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested/3 This is for the 840 Evo, which uses about the least durable flash on the market at the moment. Even with that, and with incredibly conservative estimates of how many P/E cycles a cell will manage, the 250 gig drive is still good for almost 8 years of writing 100 gigs per day. TLDR don't even remotely worry about it.
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Dec 3, 2013 20:57
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quote:250 gig drive is still good for almost 8 years of writing 100 gigs per day.
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Dec 3, 2013 21:41
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"Estimated Lifespan @ 100 GiB of Writes per Day" Last row. 7.91 years for the 250GB. 3.95 years for 120GB.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:18
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Did you read the page that chart was on? "Rated for 10 gigs of writes per day" is pretty meaningless. That's just a really low number picked by the drive maker to let them avoid extensive validation costs and have an excuse to deny warranty returns if they really wanted to. The actually relevant attributes are the number of Program/Erase cycles that the specific variety of NAND in the drive in question utilizes, plus the total capacity of the drive. If Samsung's 19nm NAND is conservatively rated at 1000 P/E cycles, then a 500 gig drive could write a total of 500 (500 gigs * 1000 p/e cycles) Terabytes before failing (This number is low, since drives have spare area- A 500 gig Samsung 840 actually has 512 gigs of flash to use). Thus, if you can write 500 TB to the drive before failure, you're looking at a 27 year lifespan if you're writing 50 gigs per day, every day. Most flash will last for well more than 1000 P/E cycles anyhow, closer to 2000, or 3000 for some of the larger NM lithographies. Things like drives with a Sandforce controller to reduce actual amount of data written can also dramatically increase lifespan.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:40
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Do keep in mind that these numbers do not include write amplification. In a properly functioning system that shouldn't be a lot, but a couple misconfigurations (bad partition offset, TRIM disabled, not enough free space) you're quickly approaching 10X write amplification.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:44
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I think the SSD in my rMBP is a Samsung. The part I'm concerned about is with writing amplification approaching 10x, that 7.91 years for 100 GiB/day quickly becomes 0.791 years. If I'm doing 20-30 GiB/day, that's only about 2.5 - 4.0 years, which is slightly less than the 5 years I'm hoping this laptop will last me. So is the consensus that the P/E cycle is usually much higher than 1000?
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Dec 3, 2013 22:51
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Samsung doesn't release their exact numbers, but for comparison, Micron/Intel 20nm MLC flash is rated for 3000 PE cycles. Samsung's TLC is known through testing to come in around 1000 PE cycles, but I don't think Apple uses their TLC flash for their SSDs. I think the TLC stuff is only in the plain 840, non-pro. e: The 840 Evo uses TLC as well, but the rMBP shipped with a Samsun 830 based SSD- Those were only made with MLC flash that should be good for at least the same 3000 cycles that Intel's MLC is. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 22:58
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So after 6 months with about 1 TB host writes per month (~33gb per day) i've gotten my write level wear on my 512gb 840 pro to 17, which means that if its MLC is good for 3000 it'll only last me 88.235 years. At that point i'll come back to this thread and then there'll be hell to pay! 
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Dec 3, 2013 23:07
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dzarc posted:I think the SSD in my rMBP is a Samsung. The part I'm concerned about is with writing amplification approaching 10x, that 7.91 years for 100 GiB/day quickly becomes 0.791 years. If I'm doing 20-30 GiB/day, that's only about 2.5 - 4.0 years, which is slightly less than the 5 years I'm hoping this laptop will last me.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:00
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I wonder what will happen to OCZ's hot PR girl. 
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Dec 4, 2013 02:30
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So I ordered an 840 Pro, thanks to all of you for the info in this thread in helping me make that decision. I was flip flopping on the evo, but I have disposable income at the moment and I figured I should use my SATA 3 bus as best I can, it's there after all. Got an extra 4GB of RAM as well to make 8 so hopefully I'll see some benefit! Actually feeling weirdly excited in a shameful kind of way. I've never bought top-line components before. Besides shrinking my pagefile and keeping 20% of the drive free, are there any tweaks I need to make? I already have TRIM, because I'm using Win 7. Also, keeping 20% free space seems like a bit of a loony requirement and a flaw in what's an otherwise excellent device. Is this a hard limitation, or will they be fixing this with firmware? EDIT: Does anyone know how secure the transparent HW encryption is on this drive? I work in a hospital and sometimes get emails containing confidential information which I need to take measures to protect. I understand that if you enable it there's a 256 bit AES key generated on the board from a user defined HDD password in the BIOS? Is the implementation of this good, or does it do something stupid like have a factory-standard key which the drive will allow to be read when presented with a plaintext password (or weak hash thereof) which matches the BIOS password? WD40 fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 03:19
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WD40 posted:EDIT: Does anyone know how secure the transparent HW encryption is on this drive? I work in a hospital and sometimes get emails containing confidential information which I need to take measures to protect. I understand that if you enable it there's a 256 bit AES key generated on the board from a user defined HDD password in the BIOS? Is the implementation of this good? Are you using outlook or something? Why are the emails being stored on your personal hard drive? (sounds like something that would be against corporate policy)
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Dec 4, 2013 03:26
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I just read through the OP and the last couple pages, and was wondering what the current thought on RAID 0 for SSD(s) is. My current setup: i7 3770k Asus P8Z77-V Pro 2x Intel SSD 320 - 120 GB on the Intel SATA III channel. These are currently running in RAID 0 but without TRIM support due to Windows 8.1 lack of support, apparently. Windows 8.1 Pro x64 I just ordered 2 Samsung 840 Evo (250gb) to upgrade these, and swap the individual Intel drives out to secondary media PCs. I had an opportunity to save money by buying two separate drives over a single 500gb via credit card reward points, and I like the idea of having two drives to use as future upgrades on off-use systems. I did confirm that the Samsung 840 Evo drives are supported with TRIM under RAID 0, but mainly just curious for any other configuration concerns when I receive the 2nd drive tomorrow.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:30
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fletcher posted:Are you using outlook or something? Why are the emails being stored on your personal hard drive? (sounds like something that would be against corporate policy) The policy is kind of crazy. They refuse to allow us to remotely connect with outlook but at the same time acknowledge that we sometimes need to check emails from home. Their solution to this is to say that we can set up forwarding for our accounts to a private email, but on a 'not recommended' basis. I don't get it at all. Also, sometimes the data is in the form of attachments which I save to my drive.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:35
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WD40 posted:The policy is kind of crazy. They refuse to allow us to remotely connect with outlook but at the same time acknowledge that we sometimes need to check emails from home. Their solution to this is to say that we can set up forwarding for our accounts to a private email, but on a 'not recommended' basis. I don't get it at all. That is indeed crazy...sounds about right for corporate IT policies I guess. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they probably don't have a web based way to access your email? Hopefully somebody has something useful to say about the disk encryption, I don't know anything about it
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Dec 4, 2013 03:44
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luigionlsd posted:I did confirm that the Samsung 840 Evo drives are supported with TRIM under RAID 0, but mainly just curious for any other configuration concerns when I receive the 2nd drive tomorrow.
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Dec 4, 2013 04:14
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Just mirrored my 3 year old Mushkin Callisto Deluxe 40G OS drive with a new 840 Evo 120G. Such a suprizingly simple process. The Callisto was fantastic for lasting so long, especially since it never had more than 1 gig free in the last 2 years. Typically it had less than 100mb free. Just couldn't afford a bigger drive until now. No more constant pop ups about low disk space. The Samsung feels noticeably faster on boot up as well, SATA II to SATA III and all. Farewell little Callisto. The (pointless) Windows performance index for the drive jumped from 7.5 to 7.9, yay! eggyolk fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 04:53
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I wonder what will happen to OCZ's hot PR girl. Googling turns up nothing, I'm semi-interested considering this might be the only upside to OCZ. Who is this mystery woman and where do I find her on the interwebs.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:07
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I don't know a lot about TRIM, RAPID, and all these other things. So a laundry list of questions: Samsung RAPID: Yay or nay? (I also run a hackintosh, but I'm guessing at the very worst it'll simply not be recognized and disappear from the desktop.) Is RAPID and TRIM a one-or-other proposition? Is TRIM a per-OS sort of thing? Like, in some distant day if I a drive split into two systems, do I have to enable it on both or just one?
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Dec 5, 2013 05:03
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Craptacular! posted:I don't know a lot about TRIM, RAPID, and all these other things. So a laundry list of questions:
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Dec 5, 2013 05:12
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In Homeric order: 3) TRIM is a fundamental part of the AHCI specifications, i.e. the hardware interface for hard drives, SSDs, and persistent storage devices in general. Similar commands exist in other specifications, and will likely continue to as long as SSDs use NAND flash. However, it is up to the OS to implement TRIM on its side as much as it is up to the drive to respect a TRIM command and the controller to pass it along. If you change OSes, you will have to make sure that TRIM is enabled on each one, yes. For most OSes, this is trivial - Windows Just Works, most Linuxes play well these days (though I don't know specifically). Only the closed nature of OS X makes you jump through hoops with non-standard hardware, because it's the only OS/ecosystem that has standard hardware. 2) You can enable RAPID and TRIM at the same time. They do entirely different things. RAPID just pre-caches data and caches writes in RAM the way you can set an SSD to cache for a slower hard drive (e.g. Intel Rapid Storage Tech, a solid-state hybrid drive, or Apple's Fusion Drive). 3) RAPID is a software feature. If it works, sure, why not? There's not much downside for a regular system, especially if you have an UPS. Only potential hiccup is that if the system loses power unexpectedly, data in RAM doesn't get written to the drive, and with RAPID that would be more data than without. But it's not necessary to use RAPID to get a fast SSD experience, not by a long shot.
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Dec 5, 2013 05:16
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RAPID is amazing, I wish they just sold it for use with non-Samsung SSDs or something. I have 24GB of RAM because I bought when it was cheap and I do use it sometimes (lots of services, Crashplan uses over a gig of RAM when you backup multiple TB, tons of VMs, and what if I want to login to all my PS2 chars for welfare certs while I'm already running BF4?  ), but using a huge chunk of that RAM for caching instead would be nice.dzarc posted:So I've been looking at the amount of data that is written on my SSD everyday and the numbers are quite alarming. I assume it's related to the amount of HD youtube/netflix streaming that I do. If I do 20-30GB write per day on a 256GB drive, is it going to crap out on me in 2-3 years like the OP suggested? Why is it writing so much!
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Dec 5, 2013 11:43
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Straker posted:Watch resource manager for a while? One thing I noticed years ago when I first switched to SSDs is that Firefox is loving brutal, if you leave lots of tabs open it'll write out to sqlstore.js (or wherever it stores session data, something like that) a couple times a minute by default, which is crazy and can amount to 50+ GB a day if you have a lot of tabs open. I had to figure out where in the settings that was so I could dial it back to saving session data only once every several minutes.
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Dec 5, 2013 18:00
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226237 That guy died on me. Mushkin has agreed to an RMA, and I'm 100% without storage or boot drive for a couple weeks It was weird, every now and again when rebooting, the BIOS would decide not to recognize the drive. Then, when I could get into Win8, it would drag so slowly, eventually doing a hard freeze. I guess the good news is that I pulled off all my irreplaceable data before the crash. I wanted to play Battlefield 4 during my vacation time
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Dec 5, 2013 19:53
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Im building a computer from scratch and was planning on using an SSD as a separate OS drive, with another one acting as my game drive. I've read through the OP and understand the need to keep roughly 20% of the drive clear, and to also buy the larger drives where size does matter. But if I was just to use a smaller, cheaper drive of 120 gigs for my OS and nothing else, its lifespan and performance wouldnt be different from a 250 gig model? Assuming Samsung 840's, I just dont want to spend 400-500 dollars when I can get a 120 for super cheap which brings the budget down to 300.
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Dec 5, 2013 21:20
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Gaj posted:Im building a computer from scratch and was planning on using an SSD as a separate OS drive, with another one acting as my game drive. I've read through the OP and understand the need to keep roughly 20% of the drive clear, and to also buy the larger drives where size does matter. But if I was just to use a smaller, cheaper drive of 120 gigs for my OS and nothing else, its lifespan and performance wouldnt be different from a 250 gig model? Assuming Samsung 840's, I just dont want to spend 400-500 dollars when I can get a 120 for super cheap which brings the budget down to 300.
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Dec 5, 2013 21:32
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canyoneer posted:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226237 Fourth one in the thread to die of the same symptoms. How old was the drive?
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Dec 5, 2013 22:32
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Oh no! I have one of those. Got mine about a year and a half ago and it's going strong though. Good thing I keep a weekly system image...
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Dec 5, 2013 22:43
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Oh no! I have one of those. Got mine about a year and a half ago and it's going strong though. Good thing I keep a weekly system image...
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Dec 5, 2013 22:49
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I have an AMD sb600 chipset and I just updated the drivers for it yesterday. I presume it was using a Microsoft one before that. The pc was acting up, being very slow and windows stuffed itself on me. After a reinstall it seems fine but could that have been the cause or was it just coincidence? Edit: I'm running a crucial m4 ToG fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 22:57
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And what firmware were you guys on? I have a regular, non-deluxe 240GB but I haven't had any issues with it. Almost 2 years old.
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Dec 5, 2013 22:58
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Alereon posted:Just to be clear, there's no evidence these drives are problematic. They've been consistently the best value for years so have sold in a lot of volume, so a handful of failures would be expected. Samsung drives are the most reliable, yet there's at least one goon who had a Samsung 840 Pro die on them. I don't think they're quite OCZ level shittastic, but for the same money I can't think of a reason to recommend one over a competing drive.
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Dec 5, 2013 23:07
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Bob Morales posted:And what firmware were you guys on? I have a regular, non-deluxe 240GB but I haven't had any issues with it. Almost 2 years old. I have this question as well. I'm on 5.0.7.
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Dec 5, 2013 23:39
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echo465 posted:I don't think they're quite OCZ level shittastic, but for the same money I can't think of a reason to recommend one over a competing drive.
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Dec 5, 2013 23:45
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:28 |
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Around the time a bunch of us were buying Mushkins they were cheaper than the regular Samsung 840s by a considerable amount, and were more reliable than anything else at their price point. Now they are lagging way behind the 840 EVO and the Intel 530. I hope that prices don't go up too much with the death of OCZ.
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Dec 5, 2013 23:53
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