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Motronic posted:You're describing cross plane: Yep. Just making sure what we were talking about. I love the burble of cross-plane V8s, but flat-planes sound insane! Q_res posted:Yes they are typically 90 degrees. The Volvo V8 is 60 degrees because, though significantly changed, it's based on a Ford V6. Most of GM's V6s save the 3.8 and 4.3 are 60-degree. I do know that making the 3.8 90-degree back when the just lopped 2 cylinders off of the Buick 300 V8 caused some issues with balance. The first bunch of years were odd-fire, and were anything but smooth. They changed to even-fire in the '80s, which improved things, but still could be better. They finally added balance shafts (and to the 4.3 as well) in the '90s-'00s, which got them up to par, at the cost of a little parasitic HP loss.
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Dec 10, 2013 05:42
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Jonny Nox posted:Weren't the original V6es 90degree engines but they had a loping idle because an uneven number of cylinders were firing in each ignition cycle so they switched to 60? Lancia introduced a 60-degree V6 in 1950, I think it was also the first mass-produced V6. You're right about the loping idle though. Usually they'll use a split-pin crankshaft to smooth it out, it causes the engine to become "even-firing" like Darchangel talked about. Buick even went so far as to use a split-pin and a balance shaft in the 3.8 eventually. Darchangel posted:Most of GM's V6s save the 3.8 and 4.3 are 60-degree. You're right, in fact I think GM holds some sort of record for 60 degree V6 production. Those just happened to be two of the more well known 90 degree 6s. I'd bet if you count the different variations, 3.3/3.8/4.3 for the Chevy and 3.8/4.1 for the Buick, they're probably the two most produced/common 90 degrees V6s too. Q_res fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 06:05
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Q_res posted:Yes they are typically 90 degrees. The Volvo V8 is 60 degrees because, though significantly changed, it's based on a Ford V6. I'm pretty sure it's not and you're thinking of the SHO V8. The Volvo V8 is a completely ground-up design specifically for the XC90. e.g. the cylinders on each bank are actually located offset from the opposite bank, for packaging purposes, like a VR6 engine. Don't think there was ever a Ford V6 with staggered cylinders. http://www.swedespeed.com/news/publish/Volvo_News/article_329.html Q_res posted:
Darchangel posted:Yep. Just making sure what we were talking about. I love the burble of cross-plane V8s, but flat-planes sound insane! It's kind of hard to fit a 90* OHC V6 transversely in a FWD engine bay. You can do it if the engine is a pushrod and the car is a Buick Lesabre though. The other advantages of a 90* V6 are lower center of gravity and the ability to fit things like a bitchin supercharger in the valley of the engine just like a V8. GM did this extensively and VW/Audi's longitudinal V6 engine is also 90* too, so now they can supercharge everything. Honda's "C" series V6 engines were also 90*, and since Honda doesn't make any V8 it wasn't because of parts sharing, but because they are so much lower in height you have the very clean, low beltlines, low CoG and airy greenhouses of the early 90s Honda/Acuras.   EDIT: It also didn't have a balance shaft, so you'll just have to 
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 06:13
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Q_res posted:Lancia introduced a 60-degree V6 in 1950, I think it was also the first mass-produced V6. You're right about the loping idle though. Usually they'll use a split-pin crankshaft to smooth it out, it causes the engine to become "even-firing" like Darchangel talked about. Buick even went so far as to use a split-pin and a balance shaft in the 3.8 eventually. There was also a 3.2 (196 c.i.) version of the Buick V6. I had one in a '79 Chevy Monza. 4-speed! I really wanted a GN motor for that car.
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Dec 10, 2013 06:15
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Throatwarbler posted:I'm pretty sure it's not and you're thinking of the SHO V8. I recall when that engine was being designed Yamaha had a hand in it. Volvo was still under Ford ownership at the time as well. I could have sworn I read that it was, very loosely, based on the SHO V8. But you're right, I don't recall Ford ever doing a staggered setup like that. Darchangel posted:There was also a 3.2 (196 c.i.) version of the Buick V6. I had one in a '79 Chevy Monza. 4-speed! I really wanted a GN motor for that car. Yeah, I'd forgotten how hard GM flogged that engine. There are at least 9 variants before you even get to the 3800 era.
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Dec 10, 2013 06:30
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Fuller9x posted:^^What CT said. I was more thinking the ECU snooping was to prevent backdoor traction controls rather than to provide power parity? That's an interesting one about the Erebus engines, I would have thought it would be easier to get linear delivery via DBW.
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Dec 10, 2013 06:39
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Darchangel posted:There are two "angles" with V engines. The bank angle and the degrees of rotation between firing events. Usually a 90-degree V8 means that it fires every 90 degrees of crank rotation. That's most US-style V8s. Ferraris,other exotics, and a lot of racing V8s are 180-degree engines. The two sound completely different, both good, in my opinion. Bank angle is a design choice - I'm not sure of what the trade-offs are beyond packaging, but there likely is some advantage to the 90-degree bank angle, given how many engines use it. Or how many I seem to recall use it, anyway. Going back to this, the cranks have pins set at 90 vs 180 degrees, but the engine still has one firing every 90 degrees on both setups. The difference in sound is because flatplane V8s have a cylinder firing on opposite banks each time - LRLRLRLR; it's literally 2 4-cylinders firing in between each other. Crossplane V8s, the way the cylinders hit top dead center you wind up with 2 cylinders firing on the same side in a row, for both sides, each rotation. Example is the LS1, goes 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3-1-etc, odds left bank and evens right. So you get frings on LRLRRLRL-LRLR, etc. You see there's 2 lefts in a row, and 2 rights in a row, halfway apart in the sequence. You get that deeper note because the two paired cylinders have their smaller exhaust pulses merge into one big one that happens twice per cycle (once per revolution), so it's basically 2 octaves down from the rest of the sound, if that makes sense. You can install special headers that make the exhaust come out LRLRLRLR, though, to spectacular effect. This is what a 5.4L Modular V8 sounds like with 180 degree headers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi9JapoWMWk
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Dec 10, 2013 06:50
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The best:  
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Dec 10, 2013 09:35
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That looks like it would be terrifying yet fun to drive. If only I could fit my 6'5" frame in there 
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Dec 10, 2013 10:23
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I don't understand. I don't understand.
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Dec 10, 2013 10:30
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Does it come with its own set of "Part Worn Tyres"? Other than the louvers missing, I see the Gadgetmobile in mid-transformation.
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Dec 10, 2013 10:30
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That's so cute, it looks like a Google street view camera glitch 
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Dec 10, 2013 13:46
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Slavvy posted:Does anyone know how they're establishing horsepower parity between the DOHC 32V Nissan, merc and Volvo engines and the pushrod 16V ford and holden engines? There's a good article in this month's Racecar Engineering about the Nissan and Merc engines and their development.
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Dec 10, 2013 13:58
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That better not have been a real RS1600i. They're really worth preserving.
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Dec 10, 2013 14:21
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88h88 posted:The best: I saw the first picture and started saying to myself in a deep movie-voice: "It's the last of the V8 in-" Then I saw the second picture and finished by saying, "--oh my."
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Dec 10, 2013 14:54
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88h88 posted:The best: The short wheelbase Group B Escort...
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Dec 10, 2013 16:11
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88h88 posted:The best: Needs a slot on the back to wedge a giant penny in
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Dec 10, 2013 16:34
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88h88 posted:The best: Seeing as that's one of my forever unattainable dream cars this depresses the poo poo out of me.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:43
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88h88 posted:The best: This makes me feel queasy like that photoshop of the Asian lady with double decker eyes. My brain just refuses to comprehend.
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Dec 10, 2013 18:49
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Linedance posted:Needs a slot on the back to wedge a giant penny in
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Dec 10, 2013 19:31
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InitialDave posted:That better not have been a real RS1600i. They're really worth preserving. Rhyno posted:Seeing as that's one of my forever unattainable dream cars this depresses the poo poo out of me.
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Dec 10, 2013 19:44
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Fucknag posted:[engine stuff]
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Dec 10, 2013 19:57
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My mate's at it again this year:
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Dec 10, 2013 20:03
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Linedance posted:Needs a slot on the back to wedge a giant penny in This is loving golden. 
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Dec 10, 2013 20:20
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InitialDave posted:My mate's at it again this year: Your mate is a hell of a man.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:15
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Just don't wear the Santa suit into a bank, they might think you're trying to rob the place (ask me how I know)
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Dec 10, 2013 21:17
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Bonus points for riding one of the manliest bikes ever made.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:06
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http://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/autos/greatest-gulf-racers-all-times
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Dec 10, 2013 23:27
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My friend sent me a picture of his neighbor's Christmas lawn display.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:49
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Mighty Horse posted:Best Interior Ever? Just so long as you remember to keep your elbows tucked in 
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Dec 11, 2013 01:06
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Y'all know it usually has an engine cover on it, right? This is the best pic I could find:  anonumos fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 01:12
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As an owner, why would you ever, ever, ever, EVER put that cover on? Do you WANT the terrorists to win?
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Dec 11, 2013 01:24
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Just needs a belt-guard up front and removal of the rear hatch. I'd drive it everywhere.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:35
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For a minute I thought it was an interior shot of the Pantera that some crazy (is there really any other kind of Northern European?) Swede threw a Hemi into. Would you like to know (a lot) more? The website is straight out of 1999 but has a dizzying amount of information on his build and all the custom parts he designed and built for it.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:53
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Terrible Robot posted:For a minute I thought it was an interior shot of the Pantera that some crazy (is there really any other kind of Northern European?) Swede threw a Hemi into. Would you like to know (a lot) more? The website is straight out of 1999 but has a dizzying amount of information on his build and all the custom parts he designed and built for it. Give me all the information on this vehicle immediately
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Dec 11, 2013 02:05
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Bob NewSCART posted:Give me all the information on this vehicle immediately http://www.hemipanter.se/ There ya go.
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Dec 11, 2013 03:05
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Cross postin
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Dec 11, 2013 03:13
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Mister Kingdom posted:http://www.hemipanter.se/ The link was in my post? 
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Dec 11, 2013 03:14
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Terrible Robot posted:For a minute I thought it was an interior shot of the Pantera that some crazy (is there really any other kind of Northern European?) Swede threw a Hemi into. Would you like to know (a lot) more? The website is straight out of 1999 but has a dizzying amount of information on his build and all the custom parts he designed and built for it. Holy poo poo that guy is AI as gently caress.
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Dec 11, 2013 03:15
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Terrible Robot posted:The link was in my post?  I did not see that.
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Dec 11, 2013 03:20
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