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Docjowles posted:It's going to be a lot harder to negotiate for an entry-level job since the applicant pool is bigger. But if you can, get them to make the opening salary offer. If you start the bidding, whatever you lead with sets the upper bound for the negotiation. If you throw out a number below what they were going to offer, you just screwed yourself out of wintermuteCF posted:don't discuss salary in the first interview unless they bring it up first. This is great advice. I'm going to try to get them to offer me a salary instead of giving one I just made up randomly. Count Sacula posted:
Thanks for all the advice as always guys. I'm going to be getting ready for the interview and doing more lab work so I don't make a fool out of myself.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:02
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. Whereas if they open things, you can make a counter offer upwards.
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HalloKitty posted:What fresh hell is this? Surely you want every PC to be as clean and replaceable at any time as possible! I'm guessing that Bob Morale's company is full of people in policy setting positions that have grown up being able to blame their terrible performance on the computers, or a system crash, and they don't want that option to go away any time soon. "Ah yeah you see I don't have those numbers you wanted because my computer crashed and it took those lazy IT guys half a day to get everything back again"
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Dec 9, 2013 19:08
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Caged posted:I'm guessing that Bob Morale's company is full of people in policy setting positions that have grown up being able to blame their terrible performance on the computers, or a system crash, and they don't want that option to go away any time soon. "If we force people to save on the network and not their computer, they won't do it." 
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Dec 9, 2013 19:24
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It's almost like people who have to manage staff don't understand that the same processes that mean people don't poo poo on their desks would also work quite well to ensure that things are done right when it comes to saving files. But computers are hard can't you just do it for me?
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Dec 9, 2013 19:26
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Tab8715 posted:What kind of salary range should one be looking at with VCP5/MCSE and lets say a few years of experience included. I just finished my VCP5 class, and if I look for another job I'm not taking anything less than 75K and this is in Texas. I would have VCP5/MCSE 2003/MCITP:EA and 8+ years of experience. I told my boss during this years review I need a road map for a promotion to a Sr. title and I'm expecting to be in the 80K range and he didn't even blink. I talked to a guy on tech-exams who landed a job with similar qualifications in Louisiana and he's making 90K. Depending on the market and your qualifications I would be expecting 75 to 90K. As a fellow Windows guy I feel that the 6 figure mark is hard to get over without bringing additional skills to the table (Linux, Storage, Networking).
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Dec 9, 2013 19:32
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Bob Morales posted:"If we force people to save on the network and not their computer, they won't do it." Nowadays, you can just set their "my documents" to be on a network share and they don't even know it. Of course, what happens next is that you find out users save stuff all over the loving place: desktop, deleted-items folder in Outlook, and all sorts of creative paths.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:46
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Alfajor posted:Nowadays, you can just set their "my documents" to be on a network share and they don't even know it. I keep all my poo poo in C:\Users\\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.Outlook\
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Dec 9, 2013 19:53
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I'm going to save all my stuff on a USB stick and then lose it and somehow IT will take the poo poo for it. And once I learn that USB sticks can get lost, I will edit Outlook attachments and just click save when I'm done, and blame IT for that as well.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:56
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I wanted to share this with you all, as a humorous glimpse into what it's like on the other side. This guy was a desktop guy that dabbled in development, and I went through great lengths to land him a junior dev role at a local company. Not 1 month into his role, without talking to me first, he sends me this email and copies EVERY SINGLE member of the dev team and his manager, aka our client. Needless to say I'm a lot more careful about taking chances on people now. Take a long drink from this cup of crazy. ========================================== email subject: "Heart of Darkness" Count Sacula, There is a situation that requires your attention and I cannot let it go on any longer. After very careful consideration, I regret to inform you that I must respectfully resign my position. I am so sorry this has happened, but I see no other honorable way out. I cannot express enough gratitude for your efforts and the efforts and patience of the people at [company redacted]. The people there are some of the finest I have ever met and the work is most fascinating, but my progress is unacceptable by any reasonable standards. I do not have the ability at this point to dive into and take ownership of a suite of highly complex and sophisticated applications. Small organizations do not have room for unproductive employees. I have tried my best and have used every waking hour of my days and nights in order to overcome the incredible learning curve associated with the Junior Developer position at [company redacted]. Have expressed my difficulties on multiple occasions and have been met with a certain resistance to "face the facts of life". They truly need someone with more experience than I. This is not a confidence nor self-esteem issue. I just don’t have what it takes to help them. I refuse to be an ineffectual employee. I just didn't have the heart to mention this previously because I really wanted this to work out, but if I don't take action now; it would be considered very irresponsible. Dedication and a "can do" attitude can only take you but so far. According to my calculations I would need another year's experience just to be able to survive in that type of environment. It also appears to me that they have an array of very capable people, but only one person there truly understands the inner workings of their most sophisticated products. He never should have been allowed to develop such applications without checks to ensure sure footed manageability and maintainability. After spending days looking over their code and noticing maybe 100 lines of documentation for every 100,000 lines of code; I cannot fathom how anyone with an I.Q. under 160 could possibly grasp such an overwhelming amount of code without documentation or some kind of model emulation. I have mentioned this on more than one occasion and they just don't believe it and don't seem to understand that you cannot throw an entry level person into a mid-level experience position with little to go on and expect fruitful results. You don't have to take my word for it, use your resources and ask around. I am 100% confident in my assertions. I urge you to speak with them in order to help them find the right person for the position involved, because one thing is for sure; they are most definitely not listening to what I am saying. I am highly honored to have been given the chance of a lifetime, but it would be a great disservice to them to allow this to continue any further. I recall that [dev manager] likes to call the developers “men”. I’m not so sure the others know exactly what is meant by that, but I do. If you are to be considered a man you must take responsibility for your actions; and I know that all too well. The underlying theme to one of the greatest novels ever written overshadows that very idea. The author is Joseph Conrad and the title is the subject of this e-mail. James D Bagg Web Developer [company redacted]
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Dec 9, 2013 22:17
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HalloKitty posted:What fresh hell is this? Surely you want every PC to be as clean and replaceable at any time as possible!
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Dec 9, 2013 22:21
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Caged posted:It's almost like people who have to manage staff don't understand that the same processes that mean people don't poo poo on their desks would also work quite well to ensure that things are done right when it comes to saving files. Bob Morales' Boss posted:So, are you going to send out listings to everyone monthly?
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Dec 9, 2013 22:29
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You'd be better served just sending a "save your work on the loving network shares, for gently caress's sake" email every month instead of that.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:31
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Count Sacula posted:I wanted to share this with you all, as a humorous glimpse into what it's like on the other side.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:45
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Misogynist posted:Turns out you might need to pair with another programmer or ask questions about parts of the stack you don't understand -- who knew? My ability to read code gives me the ability to instantly comprehend how 100k LOC Java Design Patterns AbstractFactoryFactory codebases work, and I have a clause in my contract which promises dramatic parting emails within 48 hours of starting a position if I cannot complete RFEs in less than 30 minutes.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:49
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Misogynist posted:Turns out you might need to pair with another programmer or ask questions about parts of the stack you don't understand -- who knew? This is fun when you work with programmers who don't respond to email when you ask questions and are pretty much just anti-social and hide behind headphones and sneak out when you're not looking.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:50
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Bob Morales posted:This is fun when you work with programmers who don't respond to email when you ask questions and are pretty much just anti-social and hide behind headphones and sneak out when you're not looking. Thats where the CYA emails come in. "Hey! sorry you slipped out before I could speak to you today. Lets touch base tomorrow so we can get this resolved." and copying managers as appropriate.
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Dec 9, 2013 23:46
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Blue_monday posted:Thats where the CYA emails come in. "Hey! sorry you slipped out before I could speak to you today. Lets touch base tomorrow so we can get this resolved." and copying managers as appropriate. This actually doesn't help at all unless it's for a specific issue or you want to get your manager involved every time you need something. There's a middle ground between stumbling your way through an unfamiliar codebase and sending Conrad-inspired emails when you fail and CCing your manager every time your senior dev doesn't respond, but it's tough for juniors who don't know when they should research and when they should ask and seniors who are 
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Dec 10, 2013 00:17
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Alfajor posted:Nowadays, you can just set their "my documents" to be on a network share and they don't even know it. We had a woman two jobs ago who would save things to her C drive because, despite us telling her otherwise numerous times, she thought she couldn't take her files home with her if she stored them in her My Documents folded, which used ActiveSync. She'd been told to stop several times; lo and behold, one day she came is saying that her computer wouldn't start and was making a clicking noise. Welp.
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Dec 10, 2013 01:35
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Thanks for the advice on KeePass guys, I just sent off my sales pitch email to the Security team. Hopefully it works out really well and I get to be the big hero.
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Dec 10, 2013 04:10
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Odd question, I am the only IBM iSeries/AS400 goon?
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Dec 11, 2013 03:53
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Tab8715 posted:Odd question, I am the only IBM iSeries/AS400 goon? Dealt with them but I wouldn't put them on my resume
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Dec 11, 2013 03:59
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Dealt with them but I wouldn't put them on my resume Why not?
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Dec 11, 2013 04:05
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Tab8715 posted:Why not? I don't want to deal with that stuff any more than I had to.
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Dec 11, 2013 04:07
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psydude posted:We had a woman two jobs ago who would save things to her C drive because, despite us telling her otherwise numerous times, she thought she couldn't take her files home with her if she stored them in her My Documents folded, which used ActiveSync. She'd been told to stop several times; lo and behold, one day she came is saying that her computer wouldn't start and was making a clicking noise. Worked with a guy who 'didn't trust hard drives', he was a weird rear end 'engineer' who did our PLC programming and was into 3800 Fieros and building velodrome bikes even though he was about 300lbs and hadn't rode a bike in 25 years. Saved all his poo poo to a USB stick, one day it sounded like there were a bunch of bb's in his laptop...
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Dec 11, 2013 04:07
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First time using icacls, accidentally wiped out the ACLs to an entire domains file repository during business hours. I was under pressure from multiple sources and in too much of a hurry so I didn't read the syntax carefully enough, thank god for backups.
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Dec 11, 2013 04:19
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Tab8715 posted:Odd question, I am the only IBM iSeries/AS400 goon? I work with Stratton Warren which I think is sorta based on AS400.
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Dec 11, 2013 04:36
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Tab8715 posted:Odd question, I am the only IBM iSeries/AS400 goon? Nope. We have 1 full time RPG programmer on staff for our AS400 and is currently contracting out more work specifically for it. Our entire ERP system is custom built AS400 programs. We're upgrading the server next year too. Best part? I have absolutely nothing to do with it being the VMWare/Network/Windows guy.
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Dec 11, 2013 04:38
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:I don't want to deal with that stuff any more than I had to. That's me and phones.
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Dec 11, 2013 04:55
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 Just received an Offer of Employment! Reading through it tonight and handing in notice tomorrow. Feels good man.Senior Engineer position + huge pay rise  Amusingly I asked for $X and they offered me $X +15k which has blown my mind.
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Dec 11, 2013 08:38
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That's nice of them, you don't hear that too often. Congrats!
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Dec 11, 2013 15:03
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That's awesome. For that kind of money they may expect you to put out, resist all temptation.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:24
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Cool got laid off this morning... So yeah that happened, really did not see that coming.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:30
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Christmas loving layoffs. Man that sucks.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:32
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bleh
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Dec 11, 2013 15:49
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Yeah, it sucks I am appearently getting my last 2 paychecks and benefits through the end of the month but yeah now I really gotta find something else. Do you think it was related to your communication of not being happy with your role? Sucks you got laid, but at least you get 2 paychecks (1 month?) of pay and benefits. Rough time though, since hiring can be slow over the holiday. You shouldn't have a hard time though. You're pretty smart.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:53
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Dilbert, you hated your job. This is good thing. Go out there and
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Dec 11, 2013 16:17
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Cool got laid off this morning... It sucks right now, but in 6 months I think you'll feel it was for the better. I've only been fired/let go twice in my life, both times before I started my professional career, and in the moment I thought it was terrible, but after a while it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:28
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 wintermuteCF posted:Dilbert, you hated your job. This is good thing. Go out there and I still think we're all working for Dilbert within 5 years so this'll just be a momentary hiccup in his plans for world domination.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:58
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code:
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Dec 11, 2013 17:00
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Bob Morales posted:Apparently there's an email from a few years back from 'my boss' that said "All UNIX permissions should be 777" He just wanted to win the jackpot.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:04
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