Sous veni, sous vide, sous vizzle

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Goons with Spoons > Sous veni, sous vide, sous vizzle

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Base Emitter posted:

Raw newbie question... might be dumb but how fast can sous vide cook a steak? Can I start when I get home from work and not have to wait until midnight to eat? Usually when I see articles on it, they talk about being able to leave something cooking for hours, but that's not really what I'm after, although all the other advantages in the OP sound great.

Depends on the thickness of the steak. Heat takes time to distribute through a food, and the thicker the food the longer it takes. I'm sure there's some math to figure it out but I don't bother because it's complicated and every sous vide recipe has already gone to the trouble to figuring it out for you.

That said, Serious Eats says 45 minutes for a half pound steak and 1 hour for a 2 inch thick 1 pound ribeye. Make sure it spends that much time at the target temperature, not counting the time it takes to heat up to temp (if you're impatient, heat up the water on the stove until it gets to the target temp and then dump it into your sous vide rig and then starting the clock from there.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 11, 2013

# ? Dec 11, 2013 08:27

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 17:29

Base Emitter: Apr 1, 2012; ?

Cool, thanks. An hour or two isn't bad at all.

# ? Dec 11, 2013 10:58

LTBS: Oct 9, 2003; Big Pimpin, Spending the G's

Amazon has http://www.amazon.com/LEM-Products-MAXVAC-Vacuum-Sealer/dp/B009SJBOVI on their gold box deals today at 11am central.

I don't know how good of a vacsealer it is, but it has some great reviews. Just a heads up.

# ? Dec 11, 2013 16:51

YEAH DOG: Sep 24, 2009; you wanna join my
primitive noise band?

Base Emitter posted:

Cool, thanks. An hour or two isn't bad at all.

You will Probably Not Die cooking a 1-1.5"/0.5-1lb steak at 133F for 45 minutes. It won't be pasteurized, but you're not going to live forever.

Project for Crimmis: individual wellies :3:

# ? Dec 12, 2013 03:24

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Steve Yun posted:

Keep stuff lukewarm:

I need to make an addendum to this.

This works fine when you have a lot of water (for example just rice sitting in water like above) but for other stuff like batter, dropping batter into the vessel and dropping your thermometer in the batter is a bad idea. Heat doesn't distribute through most food as well as it does through water, so what ends up happening is that the vessel might go up to 120�F and make the edges of the batter 120�F, but the thermometer will read 80 or 90�F because it's in the center of the batter. Why is this a bad thing? The temp on the outsides is going to go higher than you want, maybe high enough to start cooking the food when you're just trying to keep it warm. Or maybe you're trying to encourage fermentation and the temp will go high enough on the outsides to start killing off your bacteria.

Water would distribute the temperature well, but anything thicker like a batter won't so you can have hot spots and cold spots. You could probably get away with this if you're dealing with something as thin as water though. Or oil. I think someone mentioned some restaurants will sous vide lobsters in a tub of butter.

The solution for warming thick foods like batter is to put it inside another vessel and put that vessel in the water, and drop the thermometer in the water.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Dec 12, 2013

# ? Dec 12, 2013 07:42

mikemil828: May 15, 2008; A man who has said too much

I didn't see this brought up before but it looks like Polyscience is suing Sansaire for patent infringement, if they successfully get an injunction on them then it could be a very long time before folks get their Sansaire units.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/187917748/Preston-Industries-v-Modernchef

Anova looks to be uneffected.

# ? Dec 12, 2013 22:59

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Anybody seen the patent itself? Not that I'd necessarily understand what infringement would constitute in this case.

# ? Dec 12, 2013 23:52

a foolish pianist: May 6, 2007; (bi)cyclic mutation

The patent is here:

https://www.google.com/patents/US8469678?dq=preston+industries&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4D2qUuSSIuyQyQHM-YGYDg&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAA

I can't imagine this would stand up to a challenge - it looks essentially like every ad hoc circulator hobbyists have ever built. Then again, I'm not a patent attorney or anything, so who knows.

# ? Dec 12, 2013 23:53

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Well, if they win doesn't this mean they'll go after others later?

# ? Dec 12, 2013 23:55

a foolish pianist: May 6, 2007; (bi)cyclic mutation

It looks like the single, molded plastic housing is pretty key to the patent, so maybe not? It is pretty ridiculous that 'put well known technology inside a plastic shell' is patentable.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 00:04

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Huh. Dave Arnold's original proof-of-concept for the Searzall was to put a chinois in front of a blow torch. Might have to try this.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 01:27

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Pretty Little Lyres

Steve Yun posted:

Here is black garlic, which you get by throwing a bunch of garlic cloves (still in their paper) into a sealed container like a mason jar (no water) and keeping the temperature at 140 F for forty days. poo poo's expensive, make your own! It's like if roasted garlic and prunes had an affair and this was their love child

edit: I thought black garlic was fermented but I guess 140�F is too high for bacteria and some googling says it's not bacteria work but rather enzymes

Have you crunched the numbers to see what that costs you to run for those 40 days? I did some really rough math based on googling things and I think it's like 15c per day to run a 65w incandescent lightbulb (which another post on the page compared sous viders to). So do you figure $6 cooking costs for your black garlic? I've made mayu before (Japanese burned garlic oil puree), and this sounds an awesome way to similarly gently caress with garlic.

That aside, I'm finding this thread intriguing; my friend had pushed sous vide but I'd written it off as "some creepy version of boil-in-the-bag meals", but this thread is changing my mind.

First idea that came to mind, I want to sous vide some oxtail:

# ? Dec 13, 2013 03:32

Chemmy: Feb 4, 2001

Yeah, the thought was it would force volatile compounds made from burning propane fully mix with air and burn off.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 03:34

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Have you crunched the numbers to see what that costs you to run for those 40 days? I did some really rough math based on googling things and I think it's like 15c per day to run a 65w incandescent lightbulb (which another post on the page compared sous viders to). So do you figure $6 cooking costs for your black garlic? I've made mayu before (Japanese burned garlic oil puree), and this sounds an awesome way to similarly gently caress with garlic

I have no idea, but that sounds reasonable. My half gallon jar was about 1.25 lbs of garlic, and a pound of the stuff runs about $30 on Amazon

The biggest downside is that your sous vide rig is occupied for an entire month. Many people will just use a spare rice cooker (without a PID) that they've tested to make sure it can maintain 140F, or build their own hot box rigs

# ? Dec 13, 2013 05:54

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA: May 29, 2008

a foolish pianist posted:

It looks like the single, molded plastic housing is pretty key to the patent, so maybe not? It is pretty ridiculous that 'put well known technology inside a plastic shell' is patentable.

That's not how patents work.

What is claimed to be infringed is the following combination, in light of the specification and a lot of other stuff. There is no mention of which claim is infringed, so let's just go with the broadest one.

quote:

1. A constant temperature circulator for maintaining a liquid at a constant temperature including

a controller,
a display connected to the controller
and an electric motor connected to the controller

including an output shaft having an impeller,

the constant temperature circulator comprising:
a housing including a first integrally molded cover connected to a second integrally molded cover,
an upper portion defined in the housing that contains the controller, display and electric motor and
a lower portion defined in the housing adapted to be immersed into the liquid;
one of the first and second integrally molded covers including a first inlet,
a first casing extending from the first inlet to a first rim and
a first channel disposed within the lower portion;
an other of the first and second integrally molded covers including a second casing having a second rim disposed within the lower portion;
a chamber cooperatively defined by the first casing and the second casing and configured to complementarily encapsulate the impeller when the first rim abuts the second rim;
an outlet cooperatively defined by the first rim and the second rim in communication with the chamber; and
a first adjuster movably connected to the first channel to adjust a flow of the liquid through the chamber, the movement of the first adjuster between a substantially closed position and a substantially open position.

If this goes to a jury trial, there is almost literally no way to guess what will happen. It's possible to submit prior art and to request that the patent be re-examined in the meantime, too, which takes a long time.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Dec 13, 2013

# ? Dec 13, 2013 06:05

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

First handheld broiler test:

So my strainer turned red hot, which was cool, and got a little fireball on the other side of the mesh.

After I was done though, the mesh was discolored and had some soot on it. Is this some coating on the strainer I'm burning off or is it from the propane?

# ? Dec 13, 2013 08:46

YEAH DOG: Sep 24, 2009; you wanna join my
primitive noise band?

you sent the steel through the hardening process. stainless steel is potentially terrible for you, so depending on the heat source, you're going to die.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 08:52

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

I don't want to die so uh I guess I'll toss this strainer and look for something that was already hardened?

edit: I got a second opinion and I'm told by someone who studied materials science that it's probably not bad

quote:

That's a permanent discoloration of the steel caused by high temperatures from the torch-- it's not a big deal at all. The soot itself is going to be somewhat distasteful (it's carbon, basically :P ) but if you are heating the strainer to red hot the main issue is going to be repeated weakening of of the strainer and the metal eventually failing due to the thermal stress.

Short answer: You're not poisoning yourself. It's nothing to worry about, except the risk of your food possible falling out by the strainer failing. :P

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Dec 13, 2013

# ? Dec 13, 2013 09:08

Chemmy: Feb 4, 2001

I work with steel and I agree with your friend it's fine.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 16:49

YEAH DOG: Sep 24, 2009; you wanna join my
primitive noise band?

you should see my tongs bb

# ? Dec 13, 2013 18:15

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

# ? Dec 13, 2013 19:31

deimos: Nov 30, 2006; Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!

Remind me again, in that case is quenching bad for the steel?

# ? Dec 13, 2013 20:10

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Another friend tells me water quenching will make it break faster, and to let it air cool.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 20:18

a foolish pianist: May 6, 2007; (bi)cyclic mutation

The intro to Conan the Barbarian lied to us!

# ? Dec 13, 2013 21:59

deimos: Nov 30, 2006; Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!

a foolish pianist posted:

The intro to Conan the Barbarian lied to us!

It didn't, quench hardening is a thing.

I just wasn't sure of the metallurgy for quenching re-heated annealed metals.

# ? Dec 13, 2013 22:09

dotster: Aug 28, 2013

I am still pretty new to sous vide but I splurged on a Sous Vide Pro from PolyScience. Did a couple of t-bones last night at 132F for ~130 min. I think the steaks were not great to start with, off an older steer that we butchered earlier in the year but they came out pretty good. They looked great at least. I preseared one and not the other. The one that was not preseared was juicier. I seared them after in the cast iron skillet for about 30 sec and hit them with a torch at the same time.

I have some chuck steaks going for tonight (will be 24 hrs soon). So I am interested to see how that works out.

Edit: Image size

dotster fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 15, 2013

# ? Dec 15, 2013 21:47

RyceCube: Dec 22, 2003

Any thoughts on the dorkfood sous vide device?

# ? Dec 15, 2013 22:39

dotster: Aug 28, 2013

I cooked a pair of chuck steaks at 132F for 24 hrs and then seared in a cast iron pan and hit them with a torch as well to even out the sear and take care of the edges. They were good and the meat was easy to cut and was not chewy. I would not call the meat tender, maybe a bit tougher than a strip steak cooked medium-rare. Next time I will go longer to see if that will make the chuck more tender, probably 36-48 hrs and see what happens. I don't think I want to go any hotter since it was a nice medium to medium-rare. I have read stories about chuck being killer, did I just not go long enough in the water?

I am doing a short rib this week for a dinner Saturday night. I was planning on going 72 hrs (to Friday) and then chilling it to bring to the in-laws Saturday. Then the plan was to warm it back up (sous vide) and sear it at their house Saturday evening. I have a side of short ribs and was thinking about de-boning before i cooked it, any recommendations?

# ? Dec 16, 2013 03:39

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Phiberoptik posted:

Any thoughts on the dorkfood sous vide device?

I use the dorkfood and love it. Besides meeting the requirements of decent sous vide, it is also $100, which is cheap enough that you can get two units and use them to make multiple sous vide foods for one meal.

Downsides: kinda big and awkward compared to other PID controllers, ugly and messy compared to other sous vide solutions, makes clicky noises as it switches the heating element on and off

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Dec 16, 2013

# ? Dec 16, 2013 06:44

novamute: Jul 5, 2006; o o o

Scott Heimendinger posted:

Hi all,
As I mentioned in the previous post, we can't share many details about the situation with Polyscience. However, I can say that we continue to have frequent and amicable communication, and that we're working very hard to find a resolution. As of right now, we don't have any information that would alter our anticipated shipping date of 1/30/13, but we'll post an update if that changes. Again, we're sorry to be tight-lipped about the situation, but we hope you understand that it's out of necessity for this process to be successful.

"Update" on the Sansaire-Polyscience thing

# ? Dec 16, 2013 16:13

Chemmy: Feb 4, 2001

That's not on their Kickstarter page. What's going on?

# ? Dec 16, 2013 16:32

LTBS: Oct 9, 2003; Big Pimpin, Spending the G's

Did a 132F bone-in ribeye yesterday. I think I would prefer it a little longer (cooked about 2 hours) or maybe a few degrees higher.

# ? Dec 16, 2013 16:44

dotster: Aug 28, 2013

LTBS posted:

Did a 132F bone-in ribeye yesterday. I think I would prefer it a little longer (cooked about 2 hours) or maybe a few degrees higher.

Was it not tender enough? It looks pretty good.

# ? Dec 16, 2013 17:35

novamute: Jul 5, 2006; o o o

Chemmy posted:

That's not on their Kickstarter page. What's going on?

Patent infringement lawsuit: http://www.scribd.com/doc/187917748/Preston-Industries-v-Modernchef

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seattlefoodgeek/sansaire-sous-vide-circulator-for-199/comments?cursor=5445149#comment-5445148

novamute fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 16, 2013

# ? Dec 16, 2013 17:54

a foolish pianist: May 6, 2007; (bi)cyclic mutation

Kenji Lopez-Alt just posted his comparison review of the Sansaire, the Anove, and the Nomiku. He prefers the Sansaire and Anova to the third, but there isn't a whole lot of difference between those two. It's a good rundown of the features of all three:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/12/sous-vide-circulator-review-sansaire-nomiku-anova.html

# ? Dec 16, 2013 18:12

LTBS: Oct 9, 2003; Big Pimpin, Spending the G's

dotster posted:

Was it not tender enough? It looks pretty good.

It was tender, but I did one (not bone-in) a few weeks ago at 136F I believe for 2 hrs and it was butter in steak form. Everything that needed to break down, did. And the things that didn't, didn't.

# ? Dec 16, 2013 22:52

dotster: Aug 28, 2013

LTBS posted:

It was tender, but I did one (not bone-in) a few weeks ago at 136F I believe for 2 hrs and it was butter in steak form. Everything that needed to break down, did. And the things that didn't, didn't.

A few degrees seems to make a lot of difference, where as you have to add a ton of time at the low temperatures.

# ? Dec 17, 2013 01:16

OBAMNA PHONE: Aug 7, 2002

Kenji A-L posted this today, I wish I could convince my in-laws to let me handle the ham this year instead of having another lovely spiral cut ham.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/12/sous-vide-101-slow-cooked-city-ham-with-balsamic-brown-sugar-glaze.html

# ? Dec 17, 2013 20:33

Sub Rosa: Jun 9, 2010

I thought those vac packed hams were precooked?

# ? Dec 17, 2013 20:46

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 17:29

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Sub Rosa posted:

I thought those vac packed hams were precooked?

Yeah, and the article mentions that too

edit: also links to a list of the differences between different types of ham, it's a good guide

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 17, 2013

# ? Dec 17, 2013 20:48

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