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I'm gonna disagree, and say that you should negotiate your out-the-door price without referencing your down payment at all. That's because down payment is part of a financing deal, and you absolutely should not discuss financing until you have an out-the-door price figured out. Dealerships do not give you a discount for paying in cash... quite the opposite. They'd rather sell you a financing package, which gets them more money in the long run (from interest, for in-house underwriting) and/or in the short run (as a kickback from whoever is actually providing the loan). Your down payment size is less important than your credit rating, in determining what kind of financing deal you can get. You talk about that only after you have a final price, so you can avoid the dealership inflating your total through creative (deceptive) financing arrangements. You can almost always talk down the sticker price on a used car. Click the question mark under my avatar to see a bunch of posts I've made in this thread about how to negotiate on a used car price, but the tl:dr of it is, you should be able to get at least 10% off the sticker, and maybe more like 20% if the car has been around a long time, or if sales are slow, or if it's the end of the month. For a popular car that might be harder, but in the winter during bad weather, sales are slow and most dealerships want to get sales and will cut you a deal to get it.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:00
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Hey on the topic of Minis, coincidentally I'm looking at an automatic Clubman S and literally everything I read, especially CR's reliability report, says that anything MY07 and up from Mini should be avoided like the plague. Test drive went fine, it's high miles (110k+) but the price is right and I can easily pay cash. My standards for reliability aren't that high (I drive a 15 year old BMW right now) but I've never had the pleasure of paying for a $4000 turbocharger or whatever else is maybe guaranteed to break on these things so I don't really *know* what I'm getting myself into.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:08
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Buy a non-turbo? They're much less troublesome.
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Dec 14, 2013 14:13
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Proposed Budget: 7-10k New or Used: Used Body Style: CUV / SUV How will you be using the car?: This will be my wife's daily driver, Home Depot runner, etc. I figure 5-7000 miles per year, nearly all city and less than 5 miles plus our camping road trips and vacations thrown in. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: All we care about are leather seats. What aspects are most important to you: In order of importance: Realiablity, Safety, Comfort, Gas milage, Size. This will be my wife's first car and we are both tall and tired of bending over to get the kid in and out of my Accord. I prefer something slightly larger because we are both tall and this will be the road-trip-mobile. I have a slight preference for Honda because I already have an independent mechanic that I like, but really this could be anything. Looking to get ~4 years out of it before we move on to something else.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:59
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Throatwarbler posted:I don't know how Scion keeps their lights on considering everything they sell is ancient except for an impractical 2 seater sports car. Are there any major upcoming product launches for Scion? I *like* reading about those and even I'm drawing a blank. Jalopnik keeps running articles saying that Toyota desperately wants to make a shooting brake version of the car, but Subaru may not want to play ball. From a technological perspective, I'm not sure that body style makes a ton of sense bolted onto a sports car, but I'd imagine it could sell pretty well and Im not technically knowledgeable anyway. Boxman fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 00:24
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Proposed Budget: <$30K New or Used: New but would consider used Body Style: Strongly leaning toward a 2 door coupe How will you be using the car?: Short drives to run errands What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, MPG, fun to drive I live in the US, in Georgia. I'm seriously considering purchasing a new car since my 9 year old Chrysler 300C has been giving me a headache over the last 3 months--stalling on the road, been in the shop repeatedly. Honestly, I've just lost all confidence in the car and it is no longer worth the stress. I work from home so I do very little driving, probably around 50 miles per week. We have a Toyota FJ Cruiser for most of the daily drive. We have one kid, a 6 year old. I was originally thinking of getting a pick up truck since I've always wanted one but we already have the FJ which largely meets our needs (I don't see myself hauling bags of sand or trash any time soon) and so have shifted my thoughts to something a lot more sporty. My favorite car when I was younger was a beat up 300Z, perhaps I'm trying to recapture that feeling. So far I've been looking at Genesis coupe as a possible selection. Would love to hear others thoughts around the Genesis coupe or other possible cars of the same ilk that might make sense. I would really like a car that I will enjoy driving. Any suggestions?
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Dec 18, 2013 07:43
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There is basically no reason to get the gen coupe over the mustang. Now that there is a new one out you can probably get a deal on the current model too.
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Dec 18, 2013 14:13
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Throatwarbler posted:There is basically no reason to get the gen coupe over the mustang. Now that there is a new one out you can probably get a deal on the current model too. My brother in law got a gen coupe because the interior was better. Also, Victory Yodel listed MPG as a priority, and neither the V6 Gencoupe nor the V8 Mustang will break 20MPG in mixed driving if you're even a tiny bit spirited. What about a Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S? They're great cars to drive, and the 300ZX non-turbo was heavier and less powerful. They're basically Miata coupes, not very powerful but wonderfully responsive to drive. Edit with a big warning: If you do get the Gen Coupe DO NOT buy the Grand Touring version. It has an open differential and will spin one wheel all the time.
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Dec 18, 2013 16:19
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Weinertron posted:My brother in law got a gen coupe because the interior was better. Thank you both for the responses. Especially appreciate the warning about the Grand Touring version of the Gen Coupe. I was considering the 2.0L Turbo as it seemed to get pretty nice reviews. I had also considered the BRZ/FR-S but I think it's a little too "young" for me, if that's even a thing. I guess the next step is to take a test drive and see what I think. Again, I appreciate the insight.
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Dec 18, 2013 21:21
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Victory Yodel posted:Thank you both for the responses. Especially appreciate the warning about the Grand Touring version of the Gen Coupe. I was considering the 2.0L Turbo as it seemed to get pretty nice reviews. I had also considered the BRZ/FR-S but I think it's a little too "young" for me, if that's even a thing. I guess the next step is to take a test drive and see what I think. If you're looking at the 2.0 Genesis Coupe, I'd just go ahead and get a V6 Mustang instead. Much cheaper, arguably better to drive. Go start test driving some cars!
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Dec 19, 2013 18:50
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I'm not intending to buy a car anytime soon, but there are some things I'm curious about. What is the etiquette for a pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic? I assume you call the shop first, of course, to see if they have time that day. But what about the seller? When, and how do you mention that you'd like to do an inspection? Should you tell them in advance that you'd like to do it if the car seems promising? Here's another thing I'm puzzled by. I've recently moved to Ireland, and occasionally look at used cars. Again, I don't intend to buy any anytime soon, but I'm daydreaming a bit. I see there's a bunch of used Boxsters for under 7 thousand euro - five on just one site. A 2001 Boxster for less than 6k euro is advertised as having a full service history and recent full servicing. How come they're so cheap? I know Boxsters aren't the most desirable Porsche and those are over 10 years old, but I would have expected them to cost way more than that. Does that sound silly and I'm the one being unreasonable or am I right to suspect there's something seriously wrong with them?
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Dec 19, 2013 22:04
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The upkeep costs.
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Dec 19, 2013 22:21
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Used cars in Europe tend to cost A LOT less than in the US because most EU countries have way, way more rigorous roadworthiness inspections than in the US (where typically there is virtually none).
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Dec 19, 2013 22:21
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Looking to buy a car that is 'fun to drive'. What's that mean? I'm not exactly sure myself, I'm hoping I can list off some general wants and at least get a few suggestions of different models to research more thoroughly. I want a stick, always wanted to try a 6-shifter, something with pretty good acceleration/speed, but not a full-on sport/muscle car. I've got no strong preference for any particular brand or style/appearance. Proposed Budget: < 20k New or Used: Used Body Style: 'car' type 2/4 door How will you be using the car?: Daily drive, communing ~20 miles in and around Dallas. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Nope, I'm fairly utilitarian when it comes to vehicles so as long as some basics are covered I'm happy. As I'm in Texas a good A/C is mandatory, and I'd like a decent stereo system and CD player. After those 2 things my giveashitability drops off sharply (things like power-everything and iPod integration for example). What aspects are most important to you: I'm not a car guy so I wouldn't be doing any significant maintenance myself, most things past keeping fluids topped off and changing the oil will be done at a garage. Also good safety rating because even compared to other big cities Dallas commuters are functionally retarded. So something reliable and easily maintained, and with decent safety ratings. Everything else I figure I can compare once I've got my choices narrowed down to something less than 'goes fast  '. Any suggestions are much appreciated.
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Dec 20, 2013 01:55
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Guinness posted:Used cars in Europe tend to cost A LOT less than in the US because most EU countries have way, way more rigorous roadworthiness inspections than in the US (where typically there is virtually none). Not quite understanding the connection. Care to expand?
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Dec 20, 2013 03:33
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Sits on Pilster posted:Not quite understanding the connection. Care to expand? In Europe, you are expected to fix broken things discovered in an inspection on a vehicle before it can be registered. In the US, the inspections are much less thorough. driguy fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 03:39
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Takes No Damage posted:Looking to buy a car that is 'fun to drive'. What's that mean? I'm not exactly sure myself, I'm hoping I can list off some general wants and at least get a few suggestions of different models to research more thoroughly. I want a stick, always wanted to try a 6-shifter, something with pretty good acceleration/speed, but not a full-on sport/muscle car. I've got no strong preference for any particular brand or style/appearance. You're pretty much in Miata territory here, I'd say test drive one and see how you like it. But if you must have a back seat, then I'd say the nicest BMW 3 series you can afford. And maybe a Mustang.
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Dec 20, 2013 04:51
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driguy posted:In Europe, you are expected to fix broken things discovered in an inspection on a vehicle before it can be registered. In the US, the inspections are much less thorough. I probably should have clarified: what's unclear to me is the connection between lower average used car prices and higher inspection standards.
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Dec 20, 2013 05:38
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Sits on Pilster posted:I probably should have clarified: what's unclear to me is the connection between lower average used car prices and higher inspection standards. It could very well cost an extra 2 grand a year average to keep the boxter running, this lowers its value as you could instead just get a newer one which requires less maintenance.
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Dec 20, 2013 08:07
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My younger brother is considering buying a salvage title. Can some kind soul please link the 'Don't buy a salvage title what are you an idiot?' post that has reasons why not - I don't have search - so I can try to convince him not to, please?
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Dec 20, 2013 10:00
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:I'm not intending to buy a car anytime soon, but there are some things I'm curious about. Is there some kind of LHD/RHD fuckery going on in Ireland? Due to the proximity to the UK which is a RHD market and also access to RHD Japanese imports, or some such poo poo. I don't know the details but I've heard something like that. Anyway those prices don't sound particularly out of line in the US either, as a percentage of the original price, and those things weren't that expensive new. Also if I remember correctly the first gen Boxster had the same basic engine as the 996 and had those IMS shaft problems that will randomly dump all the oil out of the engine. leica posted:You're pretty much in Miata territory here, I'd say test drive one and see how you like it. Or a G35/7, or a Honda Accord. Even a 4 cyl Accord is a pretty decent runner if you're sticking to legal highway speeds. There are lots of sporty stick shift cars that are more reliable than BMWs if one isn't very particular about whatever unquantifiable BMW smell that makes it the Ultimate Driving Machine again this year.
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Dec 20, 2013 10:40
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Proposed Budget:20k-35K New or Used: New (ideally, although I am not married to the idea) Body Style: Mini Van/SUV/something else with third row seating. Kinda leaning towards Mini Van at the moment, but I am happy to change my mind! How will you be using the car?: I am painfully suburban these days and will primarily be using the vehicle to transport my wife and three children across the city and its suburbs. We don't plan on going on road-trips with this vehicle, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that we'd travel as far afield as Chicago (which 500 miles away from where I live). After the seating requirements I'd am primarily concerned with safety and ease of driving - I am always paranoid that I'll end up flipping SUVs and the like, even though I'm sure it is all in my head. I'd also like it to drive well in inclement conditions (rain, snow, sleet, icy roads, etc). I forsee us putting on 5-10k miles a year, with maybe a quarter of that or less being highway driving. What aspects are most important to you?: The absolute most important feature is that it has enough room to fit 5 people. The needs of my family require that the vehicle has room enough to fit three car seats (either toddler booster seats or baby car seats) comfortably, so I am thinking that third row seating is going to be an inevitability for me. After that, I am primarily concerned with safety. Lastly, as a goon, I love my stupidly expensive electronics - so anything that comes with a few extra bells and whistles is always appreciated, but not necessary in the least! Thanks! Hot Dog Day #82 fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 15:52
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Proposed Budget:20k-35K Buy a Ford Flex and enjoy!
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Dec 20, 2013 16:06
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Takes No Damage posted:Looking to buy a car that is 'fun to drive'. What's that mean? I'm not exactly sure myself, I'm hoping I can list off some general wants and at least get a few suggestions of different models to research more thoroughly. I want a stick, always wanted to try a 6-shifter, something with pretty good acceleration/speed, but not a full-on sport/muscle car. I've got no strong preference for any particular brand or style/appearance. Checking out an RX-8 might be an idea as well.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:00
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cheerfullydrab posted:Do car goons have something against Scions? I'm about to buy a new xB based on a week of research and driving around and all kinds of stuff. There don't seem to be hardly any posts about this car, ever, anywhere, on these forums. Why is that? Does someone want to talk me out of this? Nothing is final. My fiancée has an xB, and I can't recommend it unless you find a cheap used one like we did. It sat on a no haggle used dealer lot for 4 months--they called to inform us of a price drop that was below KBB trade-in value. Had only 8000 miles. This was after months of shopping and almost resigning ourselves to buying new after tiring of seeing 1-2 year old used cars priced above new MSRP. (At this point, I'm not sure if I'm trying to justify the purchase to you all or to myself.) The reason you shouldn't buy a brand a new '13-'14 xB is because they're exactly the same as the 07 or 08 xB. The only updates have been to the front fascia--and they've made them sharper and more angular which doesn't fit the box with soft, curved edges aesthetic. The engine/tranny is ancient parts bin used in 10+ year old Camry, Corolla XRS and Vibes. Gas mileage will be a little worse than EPA. The tank is also laughably small--I've had to fill up at 200 miles. Our usage is mostly short trip urban driving at <500 miles a month, so fuel economy hasn't bothered us except in principle. Its only redeeming qualities are the upright seating, rear passenger room, and cargo room with a big square hatch door. It's a large car on a compact frame. With SUV fuel economy. And the interior is plasticky but solid. My sister has a Kia Soul. I don't remember if it's the 1.6 or 2.0L, but it was sufficiently powerful. Gas mileage is much better, especially highway. The interior is much more attractive with softer materials. The warranty is 2x as long. They're still both lovely cars I wouldn't buy again. One has unique styling, the other is hideous. Economy is terrible for an economy car. The thing I hate the most about our xB is that it's so drat reliable, and I'm such a miser, that we have to put up with it for the next 10+ years. If you can afford a new xB, I'd look at the Focus hatch, Mazda3 hatch, or used Jetta wagon.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:14
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Chasiubao posted:My younger brother is considering buying a salvage title. Can some kind soul please link the 'Don't buy a salvage title what are you an idiot?' post that has reasons why not - I don't have search - so I can try to convince him not to, please? Someone else might have been more thorough, but I posted this a while ago: Leperflesh posted:Avoid avoid avoid. Rebuilt/salvage titles are problematic in several ways.
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Dec 21, 2013 01:06
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Proposed Budget: $20k and under New or Used: Used Body Style: Car How will you be using the car?: DD, Autocross, Tracktime, would rather it be a 4 seater but Ive used a miata for hiking, kayaking and everything else Ive listed so I can live small. What aspects are most important to you? Fun to drive, and fast are my major priorities. I know my way around cars so if they need a little work, thats cool. Id rather not have to be working on it every few weeks outside of break swaps and tire swaps. 3. If you do not live in the U.S. you should probably say so because what's available can vary a lot. I live in the south east. So basically I am looking at E46 M3s, E39 M5s, and STis (2005-2006). I was also considering C5 Z06s (probably fastest for the money) but I really dont like their interiors and am wishywashy on how they look. I had even considered Subaru Forester XTs of similar vintage of the STi due being quite capable of speed, though I dont really think I would want to track it or autocross it. So something like a Forester would have to be cheaper so that I could save for a track/weekend car. Any Strong recommendations one way or another? Or of cars that are comparable. Im really looking for any sort of recommendation.
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Dec 21, 2013 02:50
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Weinertron posted:Buy a Ford Flex and enjoy! I would also seriously look into a Volvo XC90. Msrp is a bit higher than your limit but the car is almost 10 years old and they are very heavily discounted. Despite being older its still the safest car on the market and looks very nice too.
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Dec 21, 2013 03:08
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Leperflesh posted:Someone else might have been more thorough, but I posted this a while ago: Thank you. My brother is that special kind of stubborn who will do something just because I suggest he not, soooo 
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Dec 21, 2013 06:02
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Proposed Budget: $10,000-20,000 New or Used: Not married to either, but would prefer new at top end of budget Body Style: 4 doors mandatory, hatch, sedan or wagon How will you be using the car?: Short daily commute, but the go-to vehicle for any family trips Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Nice bonus but not a huge deciding factor. What aspects are most important to you? (e.g. reliability, cost of ownership/maintenance, import/domestic, MPG, size, style) I would like something that is fun to drive but can safely and reasonably conveniently carry a newborn. Manual transmission is mandatory. Would favor new if only for the warranty, but will go used for a bargain on a proven reliable vehicle. Strongly prefer a vehicle with less than 60k miles. SUVs, minivans and trucks are not under consideration. I currently drive a 1995 Toyota Celica and intended to keep it until the end of days or the motor gave out, whichever came first. I recently found out, however, that I'm going to be a dad and the Celica is a two door with rear bucket seats that isn't going to be very much fun at all for hauling around a baby. Before I found out I was having a kid I was seriously considering leasing a Fiesta ST, but have pretty much all but ruled it out at this point as I can't really see fitting a rear-facing car seat in there without putting my wife's knees in the dash. There's a dealership near me that is advertising base model 2014 Focus STs for sub $20k after discounts, and I find myself strongly considering this- from what owner's forums I've read a rear facing seat will work pretty well in the middle seat. This would be stretching my budget as far as I would feel comfortable, however, and I don't have a lot of frame of reference as far as actual "quick" cars go. I have always been happy with the handling of my Celica, but have always wanted something with more pull. The question is, just how much more car do I need to be satisfied when the Celica is only putting out 130 hp. 0-60 has been okay with the Celica, but I think more torque might be what I'm after. I'm probably going to wait until spring to go buy something, but I tend to research large purchases to death before pulling the trigger. Other vehicles I've considered are the Mazda3/Mazdaspeed3, Legacy GT, WRX, but none seem to hit the sweet spot for the price and mileage I'm looking for. The biggest benefit the ST has going for it is performance for the sticker price- I don't know how likely I'd be to negotiate a new WRX to sub 20k for instance. Are there other makes/models I should be considering? Hondas and the like? I was looking at Sportwagens briefly before this thread turned me off to VWs in general. Ultimately I'm looking for my last hurrah for a couple years before I'm stuck with an SUV or minivan as the family expands.
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Dec 21, 2013 07:59
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SuicidalSmurf posted:Proposed Budget: $10,000-20,000 What about the new Mazda 6, though its slightly above your price bracket? In my experience mazdas are a little more fun to drive than their grocery getting competition and the new 6 gets pretty good MPG.
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Dec 21, 2013 13:45
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SuicidalSmurf posted:Proposed Budget: $10,000-20,000 I don't think you'll be able to find a Mazdaspeed 3 or WRX for that price, and I would be very surprised if you were able to get even a Focus ST off the lot for less than 20k. I was very impressed with my buddy's Mazda 3 hatch with the tech package, so if I was in your shoes that would probably be at the top of my list. I just bought a WRX, so I would probably look at the Imprezas or the Legacy. I am in love with my car, but it definitely does not have the gizmos the Mazda 3 had.
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Dec 21, 2013 17:23
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Proposed Budget:20k-35K Toyota Sienna XLE trim is the car I would recommend for you. A SUV with 3rd row seating is going to be a bitch with 3 car seats as there is no easy access to the 3rd row with 2 car seats in the 2nd row. We have a new Ford Explorer and 3 car seats would be a massive pain in the rear end to deal with. Most of the other SUVs in that class will be the same. In the minivan arena the Toyota Sienna and the Honda Odyssey are the only ones worth looking at. A cousin has an XLE Toyota and that thing is nice! I'm partial to the Honda personally but only in the Touring trim and those break your budget unless you go used/CPO
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Dec 21, 2013 20:44
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skipdogg posted:
The Nissan Pathfinder/Infiniti JX will do it, if that's the only thing you care about.
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Dec 21, 2013 23:47
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SuicidalSmurf posted:There's a dealership near me that is advertising base model 2014 Focus STs for sub $20k after discounts Go buy one of these immediately, this is a great deal. Its possible though, Ford dealers sometimes make some crazy deals because of the kickbacks they get.
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Dec 21, 2013 23:59
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Throatwarbler posted:The Nissan Pathfinder/Infiniti JX will do it, if that's the only thing you care about. These don't have a sliding door though, its amazing what a sliding door can do for you when it comes to hooking children in, especially 3 at a time which I couldn't even begin to possibly imagine.
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Dec 22, 2013 02:36
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Throatwarbler posted:The Nissan Pathfinder/Infiniti JX will do it, if that's the only thing you care about. Yeah we went and looked at those, but dismissed them. The car seat thing is a neat trick but we were not at all impressed with the new Pathfinder in the slightest. Uncle Jam posted:These don't have a sliding door though, its amazing what a sliding door can do for you when it comes to hooking children in, especially 3 at a time which I couldn't even begin to possibly imagine. The rear doors on our Ford Explorer are a super pain in the rear end when we have to park somewhere. They need a lot of room to open and the tighter parking spots these days make it rough. I'm jealous anytime we go anywhere in our friends minivan, so easy to get kids in and out of.
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Dec 22, 2013 18:10
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My mom is looking to replace her 2007 civic hybrid, and as best as I can figure she wants something like the following: Proposed Budget: $<$27,000 New or Used: Prefer new but could be convinced to buy used. Body Style: 4 doors, hatch or sedan. How will you be using the car? 1.5 hour commute 2x per week plus chicago suburb driving (including ferrying my sister and her friends around) and some longer (6-8 hour) drives. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Not at all. What aspects are most important to you? Gas mileage (she loves the current gas mileage of her 2007 civic hybrid) and safety, followed closely by reliability (she tends to buy a new car every 5ish years so she doesn't have to worry too much about non-routine maintenance). She's rather loyal to toyota and honda (and has fears about American cars that go way back, though could probably be talked into one now), and was thinking about getting a Prius 2. I couldn't find much discussion on hybrids in the last few pages, is it the case that other cars have increased their fuel economy such that hybrids aren't worth the premium any more? If that's the case I was thinking maybe a Honda fit or something, but I don't really know what's out there. She drives like an old lady and it's likely that any bonus features would be lost on her.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:09
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Sadi posted:Proposed Budget: $20k and under I'd stray away from the flagship BMWs and get the more standard one instead. If you're looking to actually go racing, pick up a E46 330i and look at the Spec E46 docs; the whole premise is a cheap enough car to race, but with speed and avoiding the bespoke M3 parts that are expensive.
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Dec 23, 2013 18:40
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I suppose the differences aren't that huge so they could be over come by aftermarket parts. Ive driven friends e46 325s and been very underwhellemed. I thought the breaks and shifting felt pretty bad. Ive driven my parents M3 and thought it was a pretty nice car to drive. Im not really looking for a car to enter into a spec series. Most I would do would be time trial and HPDE. Im probably keeping my miata for a possible future track rat.
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Dec 24, 2013 00:29
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