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Benagain posted:all scored to classical music.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:33
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Having finished it, it's pretty awesome. I have a few minor criticisms: - For such a politically progressive show, the gender balance is kinda poo poo, there's no non-love interest female characters like, I guess some admirals or whatever. - The narrator tends to be too informative at the expense of the drama. This especially got grating towards the end when he directly explains Oberstein's motives. - I think Terraism is a little too thinly fleshed out. It seems too moustache-twirly evil to have the dedicated following and plot-scrambling powers that it has.
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Dec 15, 2013 09:16
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The narrator thing has a few aspects. 1, Japanese don't give a poo poo about spoilers, or at least, people who make Japanese shows don't. 2, show was done well before people started going modern day crazy about spoilers 3, it's sort of in the style of a historical documentary, which is less concerned about drama than usual. The gender thing does kinda suck. The gals that are on the show, romantic interests they may be, are pretty great characters.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:10
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e26/27 spoilers: Are we supposed to take Oberstein's accusation that Lichtenlade planned the assassination attempt (rip kircheis) at face value? there doesnt look like any evidence beyond Oberstein's hunch and that dude is sneaky. I'm only a few episodes past that so its possible the truth will come out I guess
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Dec 15, 2013 20:23
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I interpreted his scene with Reuental to mean that Reuental, at least, figured that they were simply being practical by pinning it on him And I don't care about spoilers either, I just believe show-don't-tell is better storytelling than the Narrator directly giving us Oberstein's state of mind. Dude has a second-in-command who can easily function as a sounding board. Elotana fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 21:02
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Elotana posted:- For such a politically progressive show, the gender balance is kinda poo poo, there's no non-love interest female characters like, I guess some admirals or whatever. Yeah, this bothered me, although it kind of felt like a product of being written in 80s Japan. I guess the positive aspect here is that the few women characters aren't really any less competent than the men.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:24
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Zerilan posted:I guess the positive aspect here is that the few women characters aren't really any less competent than the men. Of course, this by itself isn't saying all that much considering some of the early commanders.  In all seriousness, I liked the show, but when I was watching the first few episodes and waiting for it to click I kept thinking "Damnit, they keep trying to present Reinhard as this genius wunderkind commander but it seems like the only reason he's winning is because his enemies are criminally incompetent." I seem to recall it got better later about not presenting the most basic principles of military strategy as being the height of brilliance, though.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:23
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This is why I always tell people to approach the show keeping in mind it is old, because while it is brilliant in many ways, there's like three or maybe four women who are relevant to the story and all antagonists are terrible. Post first season spoilers Reinhardt and Yang are both protagonists on opposing sides, and their subordinates are also main characters. A modern version of LoGH with antagonists who bothered to read the Art of War and aren't megalomaniacal tyrants or fanatic zealots would basically be perfect. Well okay, maybe if someone other than Yang used 3D movement it would be nice too, but the cavalry tactics in space are almost charming so it is not that much of a downside.
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Dec 16, 2013 02:03
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My Challenge ever since watching this have been to design a play by post boardgamey RPG, how you vex me LoGH 
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Dec 16, 2013 08:40
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Tomn posted:Of course, this by itself isn't saying all that much considering some of the early commanders. Aren't his enemies actually incompetent though? Part of the reason why Reinhard is so successful is because he and Kircheis promoted a meritocracy and actively sought out talent that was previously written off.
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Dec 16, 2013 08:50
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Kegslayer posted:Aren't his enemies actually incompetent though? Part of the reason why Reinhard is so successful is because he and Kircheis promoted a meritocracy and actively sought out talent that was previously written off. That's largely true as I recall, it's just that the tactics that Reinhard tended to present early on seemed more like the one-eyed man leading the blind instead of a brilliant genius cutting through deadwood. It's like seeing one caveman go "Uh...uh...one plus one is...three?" and the other caveman go "No! One plus one is...two!" and then everyone around them goes "Ooooooh! Amazing!"
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Dec 16, 2013 13:20
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Tomn posted:That's largely true as I recall, it's just that the tactics that Reinhard tended to present early on seemed more like the one-eyed man leading the blind instead of a brilliant genius cutting through deadwood. It's like seeing one caveman go "Uh...uh...one plus one is...three?" and the other caveman go "No! One plus one is...two!" and then everyone around them goes "Ooooooh! Amazing!" I think it's even more noticeable at the times when Yang's men do similar things against Reinhard's despite that Reinhard's hand-picked men also supposed to be somewhat brilliant, but I guess a lot of times it's because they need Yang's side to be more evenly matched and win some battles despite constantly being outnumbered.
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Dec 16, 2013 14:04
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Why is this in the Traditional Games forum? Looks cool though, going to definitely check it out. Or get on watching Lupin.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:30
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Part of the reason for the comparative brilliance of Reinhard/Yang/etc. is the historical context. Both nations have been stagnating for years and toadying/bloodlines/political maneuvering have been the markers for military success rather than competence. Yang is an unpopular and unambitious slacker whose competence is at least partially attributed to his study of historical combat and tactics. Reinhard is a hugely ambitious man whose competence is derived from his BURNING DESIRE to effect major change at an early age. He's obviously quite bright and intuitive in the right ways for combat (though I'm still convinced Kircheis is the better general/soldier between them) but it's his ambition that drives him to martial mastery. Reinhard and Yang are also both presented as outsiders who basically get lucky breaks (or in Yang's case, unlucky), so they both think outside of the box compared to their fellow officers. This most typically shows up in Yang's shamelessness and willingness to resort to trickery and emotional manipulation and in the scope and audacity of Reinhard's strategic planning. You see these kinds of qualities in some of their lieutenants as well, especially Reuenthal, Mittermeyer, Schenkopp, and Attenborough. If they had both been born into meritocracies they would surely have been successful men, but there would not have been such a glaring gap in competence. All that said, I still understand the complaint. I really think there's a more obvious target for it though, and that's the Rosenritter. It's one thing for Yang and Reinhard to outgeneral a bunch of nobles/political appointees, but it's another for a few dudes with axes to clean up hundreds of others in melee combat. That is some pretty unlikely poo poo, though I'm ultimately willing to suspend disbelief because it's  as gently caress.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:41
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Plenty of examples of elite soldiers doing that though, and these guys usually got power armor advantage (and otherwise actually take plenty of losses). The glaring incompetency vs competent is more a thing in general with writing brilliant characters, kinda hard to do well unless you happen to be a savant admiral yourself so instead everyone else get brought down in line so the reader/watcher gets the gist.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:14
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goodness posted:Why is this in the Traditional Games forum? Looks cool though, going to definitely check it out. Or get on watching Lupin. aparmenideanmonad posted:All that said, I still understand the complaint. I really think there's a more obvious target for it though, and that's the Rosenritter. It's one thing for Yang and Reinhard to outgeneral a bunch of nobles/political appointees, but it's another for a few dudes with axes to clean up hundreds of others in melee combat. That is some pretty unlikely poo poo, though I'm ultimately willing to suspend disbelief because it's I assume it's part that they are an elite melee combat squad in a lasergun setting. Since there are lasers, who needs to learn how to use axes? However, if you can plot device the guns away, your axemen are basically going to murder everything. The close quarters spaceship hallways don't help the other side much either. Between that and the fact that half the enemy force surrenders at the mere mention of Rosenritter, it all sounds plausible to me. But yeah, they're a little over the top, a little OP, but the show wouldn't quite be the same without Schenkopp and his band of insane assholes.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:34
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aparmenideanmonad posted:though I'm still convinced Kircheis is the better general/soldier between them Possibly true. Reinhard is probably the more brilliant of the two, but Kircheis wouldn't be swept up in the battle lust that Reinhard sometimes is (and didn't have to be as concerned with putting on a strong front to prove himself as a supreme leader.) I think the Rosenritter stand out like that because there's no real focus on anyone being good at close range combat in any other faction, outside of a few moments with Wolfgang and Reuenthal.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:37
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You're quite forgetting this guy: http://gineipaedia.com/wiki/Ovlesser Also, in the prequels there's tons of hand-to-hand and ground combat involving the main characters from the show, and it tends to be a much more evenly matched affair.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:02
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Which out of the side stories and stuff are really worth watching btw? Also what order should they be watched in?
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Dec 16, 2013 21:34
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Zerilan posted:Which out of the side stories and stuff are really worth watching btw? Also what order should they be watched in? If you're really jonesing for some LoGH action after the series is over, the prequels are alright. It's mostly The Reinhard/Keircheis Power Hour, where they stomp around the empire being amazingly better than everyone. It's still good, but don't expect anything life-changing. The order should be in the first post of the thread. Don't watch Golden Wings.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:14
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Galactic_Heroes#Adaptions If you've already seen some of the main OVA series (LOGH), the first movie (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars) is worth checking out right away, as it's an immediate prequel to LOGH. It shows the first meeting of Reinhard and Yang and pretty much feels like another set of OVA episodes. The third movie (Overture to a New War) is a more elaborate retelling of the first two episodes of LOGH. The second OVA series (Legend of Galactic Heroes Gaiden) is a prequel that starts with Reinhard and Kircheis graduating from military prep school, and also covers the earlier careers of Yang, Schenkopp, and others. It's not as good as LOGH but it's still decent. Watch this after the main series and the above movies. The second movie (Golden Wings) is kind of weird. It elaborates on Annerose getting taken by the Kaiser and how Reinhard and Kircheis react. The art style is different as it's based on the manga, there's a completely different voice cast (granted most of the characters are children so it's not as jarring as you might think) and there's already a pretty long flashback sequence that covers this in LOGH anyway. I don't think it's worth watching unless you're curious, a completionist, or really want some pedo-slashfic fodder. A new viewer who was pretty set on giving the series a serious shot should watch: Movie 1 (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars) Movie 3 (Overture to a New War) LOGH ep 3-110 LOGH Gaiden ep 1-52 ...then watch Golden Wings if you can't stop yourself. If you're not sure if this is for you, start with Movie 3. Movie 1 is fine but it does delay getting into the meat of the series for those who might be impatient to see what's going to happen.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:36
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Yeah, I actually watch Golden Wings yesterday, and well... it has an antagonist that's a long-haired dude wearing lipstick, and is full of scenes with flickering eyeballs. It's... not very good. And the real reason to watch gaidens is the cameo of 19-year old
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Dec 17, 2013 00:05
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Pimpmust posted:The glaring incompetency vs competent is more a thing in general with writing brilliant characters, kinda hard to do well unless you happen to be a savant admiral yourself so instead everyone else get brought down in line so the reader/watcher gets the gist. The thing about the comparatively stupid antagonists is that by and large they reflect attitudes often seen when you en-thrust purely ideology-driven people into military power. To make an example, look at the English Civil War: all of the commanders were nobles, and pretty much the only ones that had military experience were hotheads who served in continental Europe and had a tendency to let their experience drive them towards complete blunders, chasing after fleeing enemies etc. Often times they'd arrive on the battlefield and completely fail to take up important defensive positions because durrrrr. Plus you also had folks thinking that well, clearly they can't lose because God/History/Sheer Numbers were on their side. The New Model Army was largely successful because of it being disciplined and relatively experienced, and having some very capable commanding officers (Cromwell etc). One facet to keep in mind is that the ability of both Reinhard and Yang often has a lot to do also with the staff they retain and their force's trust in them. They call attention fairly frequently just how slow and difficult it is to arrange fleet movements of tens of thousands of ships filled with millions of men, especially when commands are often given basically by hand in periods of high interference. Both fostered talented officers under them who could be expected to act appropriately and intelligently, as well as good staff coordinating it all. It's not a matter of simple chess (hell, Yang is terrible at 3D Chess).
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Dec 17, 2013 01:46
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Watching the First Movie tonight. Never seen anything of this show before.
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Dec 18, 2013 03:46
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It owns bones. If the movies don't get you (commie) it gets even BETTER.
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Dec 18, 2013 06:58
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So now that I'm in Season 2 (I think? in the 30s) the theme music has changed and it's totally not as good. "Skies of Love" was my jam but this new poo poo is weak. How does the theme song evolve later on?
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Dec 18, 2013 19:40
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I like season 3 the best, but season 4's song is the most... memorable.
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Dec 18, 2013 20:31
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The first movie was so awesome! It reminded me of the tactical space battles from Ender's Game, which is a great book. Can't wait to watch the second movie.
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Dec 19, 2013 17:58
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goodness posted:The first movie was so awesome! It reminded me of the tactical space battles from Ender's Game, which is a great book. Can't wait to watch the second movie. Ender's Game! Thank you. I'm on Episode 5, and I tried to explain this show to a friend and that's the perfect reference point that I didn't say.
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Dec 20, 2013 10:06
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Just finished the second movie. Excited to start the series.
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Dec 20, 2013 10:25
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aparmenideanmonad posted:All that said, I still understand the complaint. I really think there's a more obvious target for it though, and that's the Rosenritter. It's one thing for Yang and Reinhard to outgeneral a bunch of nobles/political appointees, but it's another for a few dudes with axes to clean up hundreds of others in melee combat. That is some pretty unlikely poo poo, though I'm ultimately willing to suspend disbelief because it's There are several reasons for using axes in the LoGH universe, at least how I see it. First, the combat armor that Imperial grenadiers and Alliance combat troops utilize is sufficiently heavy as to deflect/ablate a good part of the energy generated by the particle beam weapons used in that universe. Second, given that the LoGH universe is also fairly hard sci-fi, one can assume that using beam weapons in boarding actions would cause a lot of secondary damage that might not be desirable (causing decompression, damage to engineering components that could cause explosions, etc.) Third, the prolific use of Seffle/zephyr particles as an area-denial measure ensures that melee weapons have a firm place in small-unit combat. There's also the intimidation factor, of course.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:40
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I just watched the first movie with a friend tonight. Different opinions-- I thought that the tactics and strategy were interesting enough, but he said that it left him a bit cold and he didn't really connect with the characters or conflict. I actually kind of agreed with him that there wasn't much to connect to on an emotional level. Although I thought there was plenty of action and content, he felt that it was a bit slow-paced. I desperately want to like this, but as an intro it seems a bit weak.
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Dec 24, 2013 07:20
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DrSunshine posted:I just watched the first movie with a friend tonight. Different opinions-- I thought that the tactics and strategy were interesting enough, but he said that it left him a bit cold and he didn't really connect with the characters or conflict. I actually kind of agreed with him that there wasn't much to connect to on an emotional level. Although I thought there was plenty of action and content, he felt that it was a bit slow-paced. That'll very quickly change after a few episodes into the first season. You don't really get to know the characters right away, the first 2 movies and episodes do a bit of universe building before it gets into the character stuff. But don't worry, by the time some major characters die, you'll likely be at least a little moved.
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Dec 24, 2013 07:32
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I didn't go back to watch that movie until after I was about halfway through the series, and I kind of agree that I had seen that first, it might not have grabbed me. The first episodes proper (which I did not, at the time, realize had been replaced by another movie) seemed more effective at establishing the characters and their worlds: Reinhard decimates a fleet three times the size of his own with contemptuous ease, then Yang realizes something's up but isn't allowed to do more than limp away from overwhelming odds; neither side gets what they wanted despite a six-digit body count, but they both declare victory to preserve morale, and the story kicks off with the promotion of both the opposing protagonists into ranks sufficient to actually start having an effect on the galaxy.
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Dec 24, 2013 08:30
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If that is so, then should we watch the second movie next, or the first two episodes? We're just following the recommended viewing order in the OP.
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Dec 24, 2013 15:30
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The second movie is a much better take on the first two episodes, so I would absolutely recommend watching that instead.
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Dec 24, 2013 15:36
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Our holiday guest was rad to have around, but it is time to go home little fella! Merry Christmas, Anime Goons!
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Dec 26, 2013 14:43
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Captain Invictus posted:The reason it will never be licensed is because the archaic Japanese business practices, particularly the anime industry, mean that buying the complete series on DVD costs the equivalent of nearly $2,000. And apparently the demands of the company that owns it have never been met by any American distributor, so it remains unlicensed to this day. Even if this was the case, I can't think of any English VAs who could pull off Reinhard/Yang.
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Dec 26, 2013 16:04
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Finally getting around to watching this and enjoying it so far. Really liking all the political poo poo that's going down in ep 3.
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Dec 26, 2013 19:37
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DrSunshine posted:If that is so, then should we watch the second movie next, or the first two episodes? We're just following the recommended viewing order in the OP. The second movie basically is the first two episodes, just mashed together and dolled up. So basically you should watch the second movie, and then jump into episode 3 of the main series. edit: first two, not second two  my typo shall live on in quotes though
Pornographic Memory fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 20:08
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