grognards.txt - sandbox gamers are the John Galts of the RPG world

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > grognards.txt - sandbox gamers are the John Galts of the RPG world

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Libertad!: Oct 30, 2013; You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Grog-apalooza!

quote:

The Sisters of Rapture (SoR) are warrior-priestesses dedicated to the service of love goddesses and their churches. Any female volunteer from any humanoid PC race may become a Sister of Rapture, although most novitiates are adolescents introduced to the Sisterhood by older members. As such, the starting age for a first-level human SoR is (12 +1d4) years. For longer-lived nonhuman races, subtract five from the starting age listed in the Core Rulebook and add 1d4. Critics have often chastised the Rapturous for indoctrinating girls at so young an age, but the Sisters do so only in order to properly shape novitiates� sexuality at their most crucial stage of development. SoR novitiates are always volunteers and are never prepubescent.

The Sisters of Rapture are very sexual, sensuous creatures. They exist to spread pleasure and love throughout the world in the name of their patron goddesses and do so with abandon. Most of them are bisexual, seeing no difference between the love of a woman for a woman and the love of a woman for a man. For the Rapturous, love knows no gender or race and has no intrinsic boundaries. Love is divine and sex
is a celebration of love�s divinity. Sisters of Rapture are not, however, promiscuous sluts willing to jump into bed with just anyone. They�re always selective and always make sure their partners understand that the act is as much a religious experience as a pleasurable one.

Keep in mind that this is supposed to be a sex-positive, feminist sourcebook!

Libertad! fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Dec 14, 2013

# ? Dec 14, 2013 04:30

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:35

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Sex Positive TG: It's feminist if they like getting their tits out.

Meanwhile, here's a post from someone that's famously crazy even by the standards of the Den:

quote:

quote:
quote:
people want to be able to say they are doing what is popular.

You're delusional. Nothing about 'Dungeons & Dragons' is popular. It's a niche hobby with some extremely negative stereotypes.

no, you are delusional.

90s D&D was failing, uesnet groups were discussing, only people playing D&D really looked at it or talked about it on the "forums" of the time, or in AOL groups. sometimes ALL RPGs were lumped in with D&D because those playing RIFTs or GURPs didnt get their own low visibility place, they sjut got put in something like "D&D and Other RPGs" for discussions. but those playing RIFTs didnt say they played D&D because everyone knew the moment a rahu-man or glitterboy was mentioned you were just being stupid to claim that is D&D. nor would you find discussion or a mind-flayer in a Boot Hill forum/group.

enter yahoo groups, internet to the home, and broadband, all at the same time as 3.x with MtG in the height of its popularity and magazines just for MtG that had other TCG as well, and D&D was a big thing you wanted to be a part of.

new people to the game had heard about D&D, i mean to have those negative connotations, you HAD to have heard about it, but not all had heard of Traveller, FATAL, Rifts, GURPS, Boot Hill, etc so the big name was the ONLY name they knew and it was D&D and "EVERYONE was talking about it". now you got things like Hero Wars and al this other stuff where people have "Xerox'd" D&D (pun intended) as jsut a generic word for a TTRPG. it didn't matter what you were talking about online because putting in the keyword "D&D" would make Lycos, Yahoo, and others (before Google) return your website and game, and everyone just used D&D for a term to mean RPG.

i mean you have people everywhere that say "PF is D&D", jsut because they don't give a drat about being correct or truthful.

i have used this example int he past but it is like someone coming up to me talking about how they like D&D and would say maybe something about an Epic Destiny or such and i would have to tell them they don't exist, and they claim they ALWAYS existed in D&D.

name dropping the term "D&D" because it IS popular is the very reason 4th edition used the name, and they were proven wrong.

what you fail to understand when calling it niche is, that even niches have their popularity contests within them such as say Star Wars v Star Trek. you are confused thinking "pop" means EVERYONE has to agree. Miley Cyrus is a pop culture idol right now, but for those that don't like her kind of music, they could care less. likewise non-gamers could care less about D&D, but RPG players know it is the big dog (or was until PF...well look all that up and decide for yourself).

so yeah, those people that choose Pokemon as the card game they play vs MtG is usually younger, because the show is aimed at younger people and the game made for younger players. MtG is popular amongst card game players as a whole, but to non-card game players, its probably poker as the most popular game (or bridge? blackjack? baccarat?). and there are some Pokemon players that have bought MtG cards jsut to look popular to friends though never playing it, just trading the cards for Pokemon or Yugioh, or whatever they play.

so yeah, the fad followers have grown in numbers since the intenet has allowed more discussion, and the MOST discussion is about the "popular" game. in terms of RPGs, that is still D&D, Rolling Eyes even if it has the Pathfinder logo on it.

i have heard or seen the term ACKS many times on various forums but neither know nor care what it means, but if you say D&D you will find everyone will be able to mentioned WotC or TSR or Gygax.

so you tell me that when there way only D&D, WoD, and a few piddling others like (Shadowrun, GURPS, RIFTS) out there that D&D wasnt and isnt still the popular name to drop?

if it isnt then it is because people have learned to stop trying to name drop and accepted that they dont like D&D and dont need the name to enjoy an RPG and can play whatever they want.

THEN and ONLY THEN, can D&D return to be what it should rather than something that panders to the lowest common denominator and generates garbage like 4/E.

# ? Dec 14, 2013 06:03

Libertad!: Oct 30, 2013; You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Plague of Hats posted:

Sex Positive TG: It's feminist if they like getting their tits out.

Well, it reads less like sex-positive so much as an author's complete lack of understanding of what it really encompasses.

Grog tax:

quote:

Encounters with Working Girls will be difficult for the party to distinguish between types. As these can range from a "Slovenly trull" to an "Expensive doxy", general appearance is not all that telling, even for the keen eyed party member out on the town for a bit of frolic. For in some cases the encounter may be with nothing more than a local dancer, prostituting herself to augment her income or to fulfill some libidinous drive. Or it could be an elderly madam, out soliciting for her stable back at the Pleasure Palace.

Rates are times the harlot's combined charisma-Comeliness score divided by 2. [R = # (C+C/2)]

Racial Preferences

It is difficult, at best, to regulate this factor into the role playing involved. Each player's character will have certain preferences based (most likely) on the player's own. Thus, the following table is calculated upon the harlot's racial preference(s) and not the clients'. For example, a female elf courtesan, is not likely to entertain a client or low social class regardless of his/her ability to pay. But if she is (say for need of instant cash!) so willing, then her rates would certainly inflate accordingly. Thus, the tables reflect an adjustment to the figures previously mentioned, based on the client's race and social class; note, the client's "looks" are not ignored, but enough money will overcome such as long as the other requisites are not compromised.

The actual working location will vary, of course, depending upon the status of the harlot. Those of the lowest ranks will gladly spend a few turns in an alleyway, or on the back porch of a business; few of these ever take clients to a room somewhere, unless it is the practice of their pimp to muscle the client out of even more money. Brazen tarts, Wanted wenches, the Haughty doxy and Expensive courtesan usually keep an apartment with at least 2 rooms--as many as 12, in which to entertain clients. These are furnished according to the status of the harlot; with the lower ranking ones residing in more pungent and less clean conditions.

I don't know about you, but these fractional mathematics and unnecessary sub-systems are kind of hot.

# ? Dec 14, 2013 06:30

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

"Look at how pathetic RPGnet is, having a fund raiser! Begging for money!"

quote:

quote:
I'm down, too. But I do wonder. We seem to be a vocal few, here. Could be lots of lurkers, though.

This site also isn't selling memberships year-round anyway. Of course there'll be a sharper uptake when people who want to donate only have a limited time, versus being able to do it all the time.

"We should totally do the same thing!"

# ? Dec 15, 2013 02:02

DigitalRaven: Oct 9, 2012

"Why is the state of the RPG market so poor?"

quote:

quote:
Role-playing will not die, but I believe the format will transition from table-top to electronic medium. The MMOs, as their option capability increases, will replace the GMs.
What an outrageous and lamentable thing such a development would be. Have we truly not lost something invaluable if that should come to pass? Have the banter, the dice-rolling, the miniatures, the homemade maps and the, for lack of a better word, pageantry of the hobby really been nothing more than obstacles, hinders and impediments, now gleefully dispatched like an old workhorse grown weary with loyal service? I think I'll rather hang my neck with the millstone of tradition for a good while longer, and leave the younger generations to dally around with electrons.

He said, posting on a loving internet forum dedicated to elfgames.

# ? Dec 15, 2013 23:01

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

For the Last and Finally time Ranger are not Archers. They can be archery in the sense that anyone using a bow is an archer. That would include warriors and Thieves.
Most RPG Games are modeled after D&D. D&D was model after The Hobbits Game (not to confused with the book) and Lord of the Ring books.
In both book and game Aragorn is a Ranger. Ranger of guild wars 2 are more model after what ranger were meant to be than in most other games.
In most other games what they call a ranger is Really an Archery. Legolas was in the described as the archery of the group.
Now most of you believe that D&D came first in the 1970�s. While there was a realse of the animation of Lord of the ring in the late 70�s D&D being released in the early 70�s The Lord of the rings book were Released in the early 1950�s. and the Hobbits was Released in around 1937.
So your image of the ranger has been misdirected by all those other games; GW2 has brought you back to the original concept of the ranger. As far as Ranger and pets Aagorn was really fond of his horse, but aside from that Drizzt Do�Urden is famous ranger who to travel with an Jaguar (it was an ethereal pet bound to a jade figurine). I Think Anet just expanded on the pet idea.
So RP�ers should have Aragorn or Drizzt Do�Urden in mind when rping Rangers not Legolas. But Then again the point of Rping is inventing yourself.
Hope this puts the Ranger and Archer to bed.

# ? Dec 16, 2013 03:18

Nancy_Noxious: Apr 10, 2013; by Smythe

quote:

But yes caster should rock, and rock hard. If a caster of high level cant make army's wet themselves..its lost the feel.

# ? Dec 17, 2013 02:57

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

Someone doesn't like Eberron.

RPGPundit posted:

Roger the GS posted:
I think the lukewarm reception may have come from every GM on the internets submitting their own lovingly crafted and outstandingly unique campaign world, then being pissed off it wasn't chosen.

Yes, it wouldn't have been a bad move on WoTC to hold a "submit your game world" contest had they actually picked someone else's lovingly crafted campaign, a fellow amateur making good; but instead the chose an on-the-spot scribbled set of notes from a professional game designer and then "created" the setting they'd always pretty much wanted it to be in the first place in a process of design-by-committee.

RPGPundit

RPGPundit posted:

Doesn't matter much. He was still an insider. And his world was not some lovingly-crafted product of decades of thought and years of play, in the style of Ed Greenwood and the realms. It was the product of a few hours of thought and zero hours of actual play.

It didn't exist, essentially, until after his vague concept was approved because it pushed the right basic buttons for WoTC and they knew Baker's credentials meant he'd probably be someone they could work with; after that, it was WOTC, not baker by his lonesome, that "created" the setting.

So in other words the central reason it was chosen was that it was an empty cypher that held "low risk" for them: Baker was low-risk because he was not an outsider, and his submission was low risk because it was in no way cherished. So the fact that it was not John Doe's decade-old homebrew made full of adventuring and love was a DISTINCT ADVANTAGE from the point of view of the WoTC suits: it was exactly what they wanted: they could claim the "contest" was a great success and proof of popular participation, they could pretend Baker was a lucky and clever newbie made good (rather than one step away from a Mr.Peanut-style corporate logo), while still getting to make the exact kitchen sink setting they'd wanted ALL ALONG, knowing that Baker would in no way object because this was just a job for him.

Looking at it that way, its no wonder at all that Eberron didn't end up being this decade's Forgotten Realms. Its kind of a miracle it didn't suck rear end even worse than it did.

RPGPundit

I'm sure his settings have got at least a decades worth of playtime and is full of new, original ideas :smaug:

# ? Dec 17, 2013 04:27

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

Slimnoid posted:

Someone doesn't like Eberron.

Yep, that paint-by-the-numbers slouch Keith "Hellcow" Baker, who still devotes an inordinate amount of time online answering questions about Eberron even though he hasn't worked at WotC in years, and who always goes out of his way to stress that his ideas and interpretations are only his own, and that you should tailor them to your personal game as you see fit. Seriously, if you ask him a question, he'll answer it. Thoroughly.

He also wrote some of my favorite anti-grog about PCs and having fun, because they are different from NPCs, which you can read here interspersed alongside a discussion of why a 3,000 year old NPC sorceress is only level 16 when a PC could reach that level way quicker.

---
But enough about friendly and helpful designers with reasonable opinions, grog!

quote:

Of special interest, the list of problems we encountered started with exploded aphorisms, mismatched metaphors and general English failures.

"it's the squeaky wheel that gets the cart to go fast."
"I can't believer how much you face plant (face palm)."
"I point the bow at his knee, I point it at his chest, I'm trying to make a feint, so..."
(that one caused me to "face plant" again)

This continued into a situation where he had his own definition of words, you can light sconces without torches, a room with a single item is now full of items. When I told him the door was stuck and needed to be pulled open, he said, "I pull the door open, using my shield in a way I can't be attacked." When I asked for clarification, it became even more vague, "I use the shield to protect me!"

Since he failed a disarm check for the trap, I took this to mean he was trying to protect himself from the trap as he understood it, but what he ready meant was, "I have a shield, so I'm immune to your traps, dm!"

Ultimately, the language problem, turned into a question of vagueness being used with passive aggressive insults hidden under table talk like, "I check for traps, again, because no one else will." Or the one that finally made me snap in another dm's game, "fine, I'll put my life on the line for the party once again." When he was the thief whose stunts almost killed all of us.

When I first tried to boot him I was a bit passionate about the player being ejected. We had already had a corrective action talk. After the party said no, I met a customer at my job who gave me good advice, "you can say whatever you want, as long as people like you."

So I just smiled and played the good guy for another year, and in the end, when my frustration was hidden behind a mask of contemplative friendship. In the end, people went out of their way to be professional about booting the bloke.

It took a year, but I feel better knowing that we did it correctly.

# ? Dec 17, 2013 08:33

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

quote:

You know why games like WoW took up with members that far overtook the number of TTRPG gamers? Because with games like WoW, even a mindless dolt can play it an enjoy it to some extent. WoW doesn't require you to have a sharp mind and vast imagination to truly enjoy it. With a TTRPG, the more imaginative you are, the more you can enjoy it because unlike a CRPG, you're only limited by your imagination. It was the one great virtue of a TTRPG that no other game could match.

So trying to make a TTRPG like an MMO was a disaster from the get go. And we've all seen the results.

quote:

quote:
the system wanks and theory crafters are still out there, and in more places than TBP. There is about a dozen or so posters on the official forums that have been throwing fits for the past year or so. You can identify them based on their *Proof* Next sucks because they calculate DPR to the ten thousandth place. No joke. At least 4 decimal places are needed when comparing the fighter to the rogue.. Needless to say, that's flawed anyway because no ttrpg I've played happens in a vacuum arena absent of environmental conditions

DPR = damage per round

I bet those system wanks play MMOs; that's the sort of thing the MMO theorycrafters do to determine optimal rotations and raid composition. Usage of World of Logs and analysis of raid output are pretty much standard fare for the hard core.

Ffffucking, math. And poo poo?

quote:

"Fun" is the most overused word in talking about role-playing games.

Let's forget fun, with all it's connotations of the immediate. RPGs should be enjoyable, or rewarding or worthwhile in some form or other.

If that means you have to stop the game for an hour to have an argument about the price of slaves in medieval constantinople, because getting things right and consistent is important to you then that's what you do.

For others its about a thin excuse to socialise and make monty python references.

For others its about playing a war game or miniatures game where you're in little danger of losing.

For others its about playing a long running game in the same game world that gradually gains more and more detail, after campaign after campaign has been played.

For others it's about turning your back on the Dungeon and all the "fun" therein and buying an inn in the local village and then making the game about running the inn and making a business work.

With one group I played with the game, no matter the game, was about hiding your intentions just long enough to stab everyone in the back before they could do the same to you. And that was one of the most enjoyable groups I've ever played with.

Let's talk about enjoyment and reward, which are not this foul "fun" you keep bringing up. RPGSite: fighting the good fight ~~for~~against newspeak!

# ? Dec 17, 2013 13:29

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Plague of Hats posted:

Ffffucking, math. And poo poo?

Wait wait wait, I thought RPGnet was overrun by hipster storytelling swine, subverting and destroying the hobby (which they not-so-secretly hate) by pulling it away from its crunchy Gygaxian roots?

And nerds who think that playing TTRPGs give them the minds of Steven Hawking and the storytelling imagination of Salman Rushdie crossed with Terry Gilliam will never stop being funny. You WoW sheeple will never burn in the creative fire that walking down a 60 foot corridor and casting burning hands at five owlbears will bring you!

Speaking of which, here is some more from that guy in the State Of The RPG Market thread

quote:

In that case, if nothing's to be done, we might as well keep marching as we are, like sinners on the edge of perdition, where one misstep might doom us all to tumble down the precipice into the dark below. I'm not sure that's such a bad thing.

"You'd be surprised how much innovation video games allow. Especially games with physics engines. Heck, there are entire communities of video game players whose sole goal is to find neat and interesting ways to exploit or abuse the games engines and mechanics in new and interesting ways."

If you think that's enough then fine, there's no field left for traditional games to compete in. We might as well cloister ourselves up in our cells to "play together" these games for the new age, making a mockery of those fine words. As an MMO player, I don't need to know the name of my fellow player, indeed few of them would volunteer such information even if requested. They're just pixels to me now, barely people, and they sure as hell aren't friends, but maybe that word too has outlived its usefulness.

Maybe I'm a out of touch, but one of the attractive features of traditional RPGs has always been that it doesn't take a computer to run them. Were I dispatched to the outskirts of Mongolia to live in a yurt for my sins, all I would need to play a game with my fellow yurtsmen would be a few books, some character sheets and a blank piece of paper, and my dice and pencils besides. Set against a world seemingly gleefully celebrating the impending death of the book as an object, there's always been something romantic about that notion.

Again, the notion that using a hardcover book full of charts of polearm weights and random monsters by terrain type makes you the natural heir to Aquinas and Goethe, unlike those base degenerates with their filthy "computers".

# ? Dec 17, 2013 15:11

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

quote:

quote:
Also, the What is the male equivalent of a hag? thread, which I haven't dared to read but which I'm confident is toxic.

I'd have said 'Ettin', but that would have lasted 2 seconds.

quote:

I always figured hag myths arose because women live longer then men, so in primitive times the only people who ever lived long enough to reach dementia were women: hence, hags.

But I'm betting the real answer is patriarchy.

quote:

quote:
I was pretty butthurt by grognard.txt.

That they only quoted me once.

Their grand maestro ettin was actually quoting me in his sig on rpgnet until he got slapped down like a mosquito. The funniest thing is I wasn't aware of any of this until it was done and dusted, which pretty much says it all. Possibly I'm a regular feature in their sideshow; it's very difficult to properly enunciate how little this means to me, even knowing why they do it. English needs another few millennia of evolution before sufficiently dimunitive expressions develop.

Anyway looks like the heroic daughter of the revolution only managed to gather his nutsack sufficient to make one comment, sadly, so we'll just have to keep putting away the popcorn while the traincrash of the "membership drive" comes to its inevitable close.

# ? Dec 18, 2013 10:37

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Traveller circa December 2013:

quote:

Their grand maestro ettin was actually quoting me in his sig on rpgnet until he got slapped down like a mosquito. The funniest thing is I wasn't aware of any of this until it was done and dusted, which pretty much says it all. Possibly I'm a regular feature in their sideshow; it's very difficult to properly enunciate how little this means to me, even knowing why they do it. English needs another few millennia of evolution before sufficiently dimunitive expressions develop.

He never even noticed the signature until after it was done! Silly Ettin! He doesn't care at all! Nobody has ever cared less!

Traveller circa Janurary 2013:

quote:

You don't understand, their modus operandi is well known. So taking it one step further turns their trolling back on itself, hence the "nazi" allegations. That stuff makes them genuinely uncomfortable, look what we did to halloween jack for example.

Ettin's sig was a fairly spectacular effort, I knew some sort of grand gesture would result from my comments but had no idea such a plump and juicy fruit would fall out of the tree when it was rattled. Nice. I'd love to claim credit for the whole thing from end to end, but really I just set the paint bucket up over the door, he stepped through it entirely of his own volition. And then sat still dripping in his shiny new car.

Am I saying I use comments here to manipulate these chuckleheads from afar? Indeed I am. It's like hacking, they take information from here and process it in predictable ways. So by adjusting the information produced here, you can adjust their behaviour in predictable ways. And it's entirely their own fault.

Believe me, I'm far from frustrated. Of course, as mentioned previously, now they are aware of this, it will be a little more difficult to push their buttons. Meh, it was already shooting fish in a barrel I suppose.

So he DID notice, and it was all his grand orchestration!

Traveller circa December 2012:

quote:

Oh yeah he's actually quoting me now, his signature has become his own little grognards.txt. I seem to be making more of an appearance on that site at the moment than when I ever posted there.

What beats me is why he believes that anyone would give a crap. Respeck mah authorahtah. Hahahaha!

So he notices it, but he isn't orchestrating it, he's just sitting back and laughing about it because Ettin cares so very much that he's doing it to himself!

Also, loving 2012 and he's still going. His story changes literally every time he has a chance to bring it up, and he brings it up every chance he gets.

Ettin.

That day you quoted Traveller was the most important day of his life.

# ? Dec 18, 2013 12:39

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Look at what they did to me, Ettin! You have no idea what's coming! I'd tell you, if I could remember!

quote:

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Like most Americans, I will be busy with family stuff today, although I will probably check in a couple times to respond to comments from readers in the rest of the world. But I wondered, "What could I do for a Thanksgiving-themed post?" Killer turkeys have probably already been done. Killer balloons, maybe not, but also not very useful. But then I thought: what about rules -- good rules -- for eating or drinking too much?

Clearly, this is a job for the reaction roll table.

2d6 Overindulgence Reaction
2 "I can't believe I ate the whole thing!" Move 3, penalty on actions,
3-5 "I'm stuffed/sloshed to the gills!" Move is halved.
6-8 Pleasant, ordinary meal or round of drinks.
9-11 "I'm good for another go!" Any exhaustion or fatigue is dispelled.
12+ "Woo-Hoo!" Restore 1 point of damage.

Where appropriate, characters rolling a 2 may have to save vs. poison or pass out. Or, in some cases, save vs. actual poison. There may be additional effects depending on the substance ingested or the race of the character; for example, any result below 6 for alcohol should probably include the effects of a Confusion spell.

Similarly, the GM can modify the roll based on quantity of food/booze or other reasons. Hobbits (not halflings) get a bonus on the roll. Dwarves get a bonus for booze specifically. If players make a roll, then opt for another round of eating or drinking, halve the roll (or roll 1d6,) If you try to eat like Gord in Gary Gygax's first book, you wil, eventually, succumb.

# ? Dec 18, 2013 16:39

RYang: Dec 5, 2012

Why is cannibalism evil, but slavery isn't?

Buri posted:

Enslaving people isn't always evil. You can have bad slave owners but that doesn't make all of them bad. If a kingdom invades another, often people are taken as slaves. Would you rather them be killed? Which leads me into Pathfinder central pillar around what makes evil, evil: death. If it ends life it is evil. Oppression is evil as well but being a slave does not necessitate oppression. Going back to Sunday school a bit: Egypt's pharaoh turned a slave into the 2nd in command of his kingdom. Before that, Joseph was allowed a wide birth in his master's home. He was hardly oppressed. He couldn't leave, yes. But, he could worship his god, more or less roam freely, etc. In more recent history, in the USA, there were good slave owners and bad just the same. There were also methods by which one could volunteer for slavery in return for several benefits or it could be used as a way to pay back services which you owe to someone and are in severe default for. This was called indentured servitude and you were practically a slave all the same. Without such a system, the law had no way to handle debts. If history teaches anything, such gaps in law usually lead to vigilantism which often leads to needless death, which, by the way, is evil.

Buri posted:

quote:
Slavery is alive and well in the world today, and that's (part of) what makes slavery apologia so incredibly vile. Slavery apologia from white men from the southern US, that's just...beyond what this board will allow me to say.
That's a racist comment.

Buri posted:

I agree entirely. However, people seemingly like to play with 21st century, modernist views in a medieval fantasy world and then call the system built around that world "crap." Hence, this thread exists.

Fortunately, the Paizo mods come to the rescue to clean up the thread!

Chris Lambertz posted:

Removed a few posts and locking. It just doesn't seem that this thread is going to go anywhere productive or contain civil discussion. Please note that personal insults as well as bigoted, hateful or racially offensive statements aren't OK on paizo.com.

Rejoice, for all the bigoted and hateful statements are now gone! ...but wait, the pro-slavery arguments are all still there. The posts that were deleted were the ones saying thing like "ITT sheltered white nerds think slavery is pretty okay".

# ? Dec 18, 2013 23:19

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

The USENET, in the Year of Our Lord 2000 posted:

What I read frightens me.
In the bright halycon days of yesteryear, rpg's were created by roleplayers,
for roleplayers, to roleplay. Inevitably, some of them made money, formed
businesses, and continued to produce games. Regardless, and perhaps I am
naive to think this, but the initial intents were not to generate target
markets and vast revenues. They were to promote the hobby.
In speaking to reps of the RPGa and other suchlike institutions, I fear for
the industry. Their primary interest in in making money, not in breaking the
trends rpg's have set. They are not out to promote new ideas in the field.
They are after cold hard cash. Businessmen first, gamers second.
Laugh as you may at the following statement, but there is no 'problem' with
roleplaying these days. Despite what they believe, roleplaying is not on the
decline:- it permeates every aspect of society. Dragonlance novels, Vampire
the tv series, AD+D computer games. The problem that THEY see is that
purchasing is on the decline. Gone are the days when people would stack
three feet high columns of 'GURPS:- Sundries' onto tables before GMing.
Roleplaying is more freeform, people take systems, make up their own, cross
ref ideas from two, three systems. I don't see a problem with it. But they
do. Which is why they are trying to rally round and pitch their game at the
biggest demographic group they can think of. Which is what Games Workshop
started doing circa White Dwarf 125. Now look at what they've become.
Successful? Yes. Respected? No. I gave up on wargaming when wh40k 2nd came
out. I've never looked back.

I roleplay because it's fun. And everyone who reads this roleplays for fun.
Every hobby has high peaks and low peaks. Just look at archery. Having a bow
was the 'in' look circa 1415. Then when gun powder came on the scene,
archery was so passe. But it's bouncing back........

My point (I think) if I have one at all, is:- to hell with WoTC (or hasbro,
or whomever) Any time somebody rates me on a demographic scale, I get
jittery. Product placement and all that crap is just to brainwash
the kiddies. God help the next generation of roleplayers. We must save them
from themselves.

# ? Dec 19, 2013 01:59

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

oh man I love this

Thread title: Rev James Wyatt (D&Ds Hitler)

no seriously the thread's title is 'Rev James Wyatt (D&Ds Hitler)' posted:

Worlds of D&D
By James Wyatt

. http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4wand/20131218 .

quote:
I think this approach is important, because it stresses the idea that dwarves are dwarves, across the multiverse, and more specifically, that mountain dwarves are mountain dwarves, whether they�re called shield dwarves, Hylar, Daewar, or something else entirely. Mountain dwarves are a part of D&D, and all the worlds of the multiverse are a part of D&D. Not all those worlds have mountain dwarves, but where they do appear, they�re the same mountain dwarves as you�ll find on any other world.

paraphrased:

quote:
Kill all the Jew dwarves! There shall be only ONE dwarf!

He goes on like a proper Christian to say you should only follow his religion and all others should just conform to it in some way with his unified cosmology. You know, like those missionaries whose main goal in times past (and probably now too) was not to teach new things to people and underdeveloped countries like better hygiene and such for the sake of health, but only to convert them to Christianity.

so DDN will be James World and every one else just gets the privilege of playing in it, where he mixes everything up and destroys all previous settings from Planescape (who needs it anyway) to Ravenloft, to Krynn, to Athas. all worlds ar the same, only the names have changed to protect the innocent. those settings and cultures in them and uniqueness's that he sends off to death camps.

no matter what your pantheon contains, it is just the local name of some deity (Zeus/Jupiter) that is pretty much identical in every way across D&D, and thus all races are the same making all halflings become kender. All the worlds are only mirror shards that reflect each other with slight changes but are jsut really shadows of the ONETRUE D&D world.

:P

-----

so where are these modules to allow people to play what they want, is everything only offers ONE options to pick from? are the "core" books going to be bloated with multi-setting crap to tell how this dwarf from that setting is now treated as the dwarf found in FR, the dark elves are now all drow (oh wait, they already did this), and that warforged actually existed all along on FR as the sundering strives to FIX what the Spellplague caused to FR? because you know, when jsut a gleam in Gygax/Arnesons shared eye and before Hellcow could even write a thing about them, warforged alwayts existed in Blackmoor (maybe) and Oerth (golem anyone? not whatever warforged baggage carries with it from eBerron).

:ugone2far:

James is just one grey hair away from becoming Jack Chick at this point.

quote:

The logic in Wyatt's article:
"Hey wouldn't it be great if players could make any race of character they want?"
"Now they can, because we're removing a whole bunch of races!".

As usual they're removing options because they're a bunch of lazy hacks.

# ? Dec 19, 2013 04:16

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

quote:

Oh man, the site is based in Berkley? No wonder it is such a cesspool. I am quite pleased when I visit tbp I have my adblocker up. I'd rather not they make cent off my back.

quote:

quote:
Forgive an ignorant furriner for asking a silly question, but what's the deal with Berkley?

Basically it is to universities what RPG.net is to roleplaying.

JG

Literally cartoonish Republican stereotypes. :bahgawd:

# ? Dec 19, 2013 10:44

Nancy_Noxious: Apr 10, 2013; by Smythe

So Old Geezer and his group were playing Dungeon World:

quote:

... and the referee ended up rolling on the Random Harlot Table in the 1st Edition DMG. And it was logical and story-supported to do so.

So there.

("Slovenly trull," for those of you keeping score at home.)

Thanks Old Geezer! This stinky piece os misogynist game "design" is exactly what Dungeon World needs! :suicide:

What's next? Will Old Creeper revive gender-based ability scores? (Custom move! Female characters get -1 ongoing on Str rolls!)

# ? Dec 19, 2013 22:45

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

When *I* am walking into a room, open a chest and take the money in it, it is not a story while I am doing it. After the fact, if I talk about what I did to someone else, then I am recounting those actual events, and it is a story.

When I am playing Bob the warrior, that I enter the room, open the chest, and take the money it, this is not a story. This is the actuality of the game world. The "now". Once the game session is over, the events that occurred during the game in effect became a story after the fact, a story which I could tell people about afterwards.

Words have meaning. That's the difference you keep ignoring.

# ? Dec 19, 2013 22:56

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Plague of Hats posted:

oh man I love this

Thread title: Rev James Wyatt (D&Ds Hitler)

As noted previously, this guy is too crazy even for the Den, so most of the responses boil down to "Jesus, dude, what the gently caress is your problem?"

Here's his response:

a reminder that the thread title literally is 'Rev James Wyatt (D&Ds Hitler)' posted:

wow most people around here are either dumb or just whiney little children.

"i want characters to be different", let's make all the races the same.

when Wyatt says culture, he means fluff. so why do dwarves on krynn have to look exactly like and have the same abilities as ones on Athas or Toril, mechanically speaking? because there is only one cosmology so the Greystone never happened. time for a Spellplague to hit krynn. sorry, the gods of light are gone again, now you have these eBerron gods. no bloodlines for Birthright, you have to discard all that. of Knight of the Rose, Knight of Solmalia, etc. sorry krynn only has knights now so all that world element must be removed. red wizard, white wizards, yeah only 1 moon for Krynn as the cosmology has changed. Red Stell, sorry no mutations, your characters must be the same dwarf as in EVERY other game. Ravenloft, no vampire dwarves allowed as that is not how dwarves are done in D&D!

for all the temper tantrums about how people want 4 million class for a fighter and need a "rogue" class at all, i find it VERY funny they would destroy all variations of races, other than to say well dwarves on Athas dont ine metal because there isnt much there, otherwise they are identical to dwarves on Oerth and eBerron, just a little more sandy and tanned.

racial diversity on different settings is one of the things that made settings stand out. yeah 2nd edition went WAY overboard, but build D&D for Planescape that was an after thought is just nonsense. using it to claim that ALL dwarves came from the same place and just plane-hopped so that is why they are ALL the same is also nonsense.

the simple thing is, they are bringing back in some fashion the rich settings names from 2e, but they don't want to make them all over again. why not? they made the game all over again. you would think a designer would enjoy having MORE work to do as that is job security.

HEY different racial characteristics for different settings means that all those STRANGE classes can better exist within D&D because on Athas the "fighter" is called barbarian and follows THOSE rules. on Krynn he is either the Ranger or Knight and follows those rules.

you people fail to see the hand of 4th edition slapping around the races and cosmology in this article, being that 4th was Wyatt's lovechild.

i mean all you people claim you NEED mechanical bonuses for EVRYTHING within the game for it to be int he rules, and then are ok when races are stripped of any mechanical differentiation and just turned into flavor text and shoehorned into the Astral Sea cosmology?

debate would be a good term, but drat, you people do not do that, you just like bitching about poo poo. you are all bitches! whiney little children that sit on your high horse claiming competence in game design but fail to understand it.

like i asked, how many pages you think the book will be to have all this racial fluff in the core books as it seems is likely? will a setting book be only fluff (see PHB for dwarf stats)

i know Wyatt is terrible at communication, but you need to either take what he says at face value, and he made NO mention of mechanical differences in the article, or find a translator for his drivel to English. so far his words have been face value stupid in EVERYTHING he has done since he was hired by WotC.

like Bills S who worked on Alternity, then mutated it into SW SAGA, then that into 4th, of course Wyatt wants his pride and joy 4th to be hammered into DDN when it was a failure. wasnt most of his work on Planescape as well? which means he has a vested interest in his work being brought to the forefront of D&D and FORCING everyone to have to play Planescape. or was it Eberron, i know he worked on that.

it is with Planescape, like Frank MEntzer said in Immortals, that you really have to leave the way you think about D&D behind and envision a whole new type of game in order to paly it sicne mortality is no longer something an IMMORTAL need be concerned with. that is what planehopping is.

this is D&D, not EverQuest, so leave the planes out of the game, and let those that wish it ADD it in from a setting, as is the point of settings. peopel could play Greyhawk if they chose, or Blackmoor when D&D was still young; or they could make their own. they were really forced to play either of those.

Before anyone stupidly suggested that eVERYONE was forced to play Greyhawk, remember Greyhawk in core D&D is about as generic fantasy as you can get with the Vanceian castings there. spell names were of Greyhawk palyers, but Bigby didn't ahve to ever exist in your world, as changing spell names was assumed and DMs and players were TOLD to do so. no world was given in 2e for a reason, D&D doesn't need a world or cosmology, it is the framework, now design your own, buy a settings, or just buy adventures to run and connect them together. heaven forbid you can do ALL of those at the same time! drop the silt sea onto Toril if you want!

ONE DWARF TO RULE THEM ALL....you people are really all about ONETRUEWAYISM and worship at the alter of WotC.

tl;dr

Wyatt wants all dwarves to be mechanically the same with only fluff changes per settings, and that pretty much destroys MANY if no MOST settings, or the very idea of settings. so does it destroy any setting specific cosmology and forces everyone to use the ONE D&D cosmology (which shouldnt even exist!).

remember Wyatt is trying to get everyone to play in HIS story and HIS world, not allowing them to play D&D because all Ettercaps MUST be spider herders that sell pixie parts to hags, and poke-vole into Aranae (sp).

i mean really, if you are going to reduce all races into jsut one, why still drow? it is an elf variant right, so get rid of dark-elves. thus ALL elves in D&D are Eladrin.

if they are going so strongly with subclasses for variation, it is counter to "modular design" to get rid of all "sub"races. either use both or get rid of both.

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Dec 20, 2013

# ? Dec 20, 2013 06:03

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

quote:

And even if they did, they can take that service from you at any time.

Someone gave $1,000 to rpg.net. That person can still be perma-banned. Would you pay upfront for a cable channel they could cut off at any time?

quote:

It�s not a person, but a company that donated money.

quote:

Which company have half the mod-squad previously and/or currently worked for?

Math is hard!

# ? Dec 21, 2013 01:48

Guilty Spork: Feb 26, 2011; Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

Plague of Hats posted:

Math is hard!

I like how they're acting like when you go on RPG.net you're constantly risking being banned, rather than that being highly unlikely provided you're not a total shitheel.

Meanwhile, Pundowski is doing his usual McCarthyism thing with Ryuutama:

quote:

quote:
Oh no, a pervert translated this game, now it's ruined forever.
More aptly, someone who has a proven agenda of what he chooses to translate translated this game...

That nefarious Andy Kitkowski, with his agenda of translating games that he thinks are fun!

# ? Dec 21, 2013 02:48

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Plague of Hats posted:

As noted previously, this guy is too crazy even for the Den, so most of the responses boil down to "Jesus, dude, what the gently caress is your problem?"

Hitler was a copyright lawyer! :pwn:

quote:

quote:
Instead of taking the point that short men who like rocks and forging stuff are called dwarves, Shadzar sees this as "all dwarves are identical!"

no, you miss the point that Mearls, Wyatt, HASBRO are all trying to BRAND D&D as this ONE thing since you cannot copyright game rules, only how they are presented. (thus why they aren't touching pre-WotC editions anymore as they are ALL 90% based in public domain myth and legends) and the only way to do that is say "here is D&D's Dwarf", there can be only one.

just like with 4th edition they are trying to make the ONETRUED&D, and in 4th they shitted on classes to make them ALL the same, but in DDN they are making GBS threads on races to make them all the same for D&D. so one dwarf is like ALL other dwarves, one elf is like ALL other elves, and so on. so these are the D&D races.

that defeats the purpose of having settings where there are more than fluff differences but mechanical ones, because each has a different "feel" via its different cosmology, different world creation.

how were the dwarves or halflings created and come into being on Toril, Krynn, Athas, etc? the Greystone is now present for Toril, Oerth and Mystara, or did Dragonlance get shat on again after its weird SAGA bullshit?

WHY THE gently caress!, are warforged outside of eBerron and inhabiting EVERY Krynn, Toril, Athas, game?

the simple answer is that there can be only one, one D&D, the HASBRO way to brand it and make it "protected" under the HASBRO name. that means it cannot include things from TSR era that were made by other people that, until their deaths, were competitors to HASBRO D&D.

it really is no different that the Superman legal battle and such as copyright laws changed, but compensation under the new laws and things that are prohibited now arent being done to correct and protect those creators that may still be living today.

it is ONLY about money, not about making a game. same way 4th edition had no OGL, because they gave away 20+ years of D&D in one fell swoop, and must NOW put the HASBRO mark on it to protect it as HASBRO D&D, both in name/design and ownership.

Hitler was not a very good copyright lawyer. :shrek:

# ? Dec 21, 2013 09:29

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

This time on It Came From The GURPS Forums: MRA provides stats for a genetically-engineered foxgirl sextoy because real women are disgusting feminists who refuse to treat him like a person and have forced him into involuntary celibacy

(Any bolding is my own added emphasis and bolded/italicized bracketed stuff is my commentary)

nick012000 posted:

An idea I had kicking around, and I decided to stat it up, because GURPS: Biotech might as well be called GURPS: Fetish Fuel. (Just because you can use it as such doesn't mean you should. -BM)

Foxwife Domestic Bioroid (38 CP)

Attributes: ST -2 [20]; DX +1 [20]; HT +2 [20].
Secondary Attributes: HP +2 [4].
Advantages: Acute Hearing 3 [6], Appearance (Very Beautiful) [16], Extended
Lifespan (x4) [4], Longevity [2], Resistant (Disease, +8) [5], Ultrahearing
[5], Voice [10].
Perks: Cross-species Surrogacy [1], Extreme Sexual Dimorphism [1], No
Degeneration in Zero-G [1], Reproductive Control (Fertility Control) [1],
Sanitized Metabolism [1].
Disadvantages: Bioroid Physiology (Fertile) [-5], Chummy [-5],
Lecherousness (12 or less) [-15], Light Sleeper [-5], Low Pain Threshold
[-10], Unnatural Feature (Fox ears/tail) [-2].
Quirks: Humble [-1], Minor Addiction (Masochism) [-1], Responsive [-1],
Staid [-1], Personality Change (Lecherousness (6 or less), only when in
estrus) [-1]
Racial Skill Modifiers: +3 to Erotic Art [6], +1 to Sex Appeal [2].
Features: Altered Sex Ratio (100% Female), Early Maturation 2, Easy
Childbirth, Eros Plus Biomod, Exotic Genitalia, Extended Fertility, Genetic
Tattoos, Intron Messages, Light Menses, Ordinary Tail, Parthenogenesis
(Single origin only), Sexual Orientation (Bisexual), Shorter Gestation, Taboo
Traits (Aggressiveness, Genetic Defects, Mental Instability,
Unattractiveness)
Availability: $88,000, LC3

In-tank Deep/Dream Training (18 CP):
Primary Skills: Cooking (A) IQ [2]-10, Dancing (A) DX [2]-11, Diplomacy (A)
IQ+1 [2]-11, Erotic Art (Human) (A) DX+3 [2]-14, Savoir-Faire (Servant)
(E) IQ [2]-11, Sex Appeal (A) HT+10 [2]-22. (loving level 22 Sex Appeal in a game that uses 3d6 roll under resolution wtf. -BM)
Secondary Skills: Computer Operation/TL 10 (E) IQ [1]-10, First Aid/TL 10
(Human) (E) IQ [1]-10, Hobby Skill (Flower Arrangement) (E) DX [1]-11,
Housekeeping (E) IQ [1]-10, Makeup/TL 10 (E) IQ [1]-10, Savoir-Faire (High
Society) (E) IQ [1]-10, Singing (E) HT+2 [1]-14
Quirks: Delusion ("I exist to serve my master") [-1]

Basically, the intention is produce an all-purpose domestic utility bioroid. Whether for performing housekeeping duties, taking care of their guardian's children, acting as a more personable exo-womb (or, if the guardian desires, capable of parthenogenesis if he wishes to "really" impregnate her himself), or fulfilling the desire for female companionship (sexual or otherwise), they're quite capable of it. Prospective purchasers should be adviced that Foxwife bioroids get lonely rather easily if left unattended, so the purchase of a pet to keep them company is recommended if prolonged periods of being left alone at home each day are anticipated.

nick012000 posted:

quote:
Why Light Sleeper? I'd like my expensive sex-bot to be well-rested and alert, please...

It's an unintended disadvantage, the result of the fox ears. GURPS: Biotech mentions this as a probably disadvantage of it on p. 57.

Similarly, the Low Pain Threshold was the result of increasing the sensitivity of her sense of touch (the Eros Plus "biomod"/Exotic Genitalia feature) combined with how the pain and pleasure centers of her brain were wired together (resulting in the Minor Addiction).

(OH well if the rules say so. -BM)

quote:

quote:
An idea I had kicking around, and I decided to stat it up, because GURPS: Biotech might as well be called GURPS: Fetish Fuel.

You obviously haven't been reading GURPS In The Well enough if you're saying this about Bio-Tech. (And like half of Transhuman Space, too. -BM)

Oh, and I think the Estrus + Parthenogenesis + Cross-Species Surrogacy is too much both and kinda defeats the point of switching from parahumans to bioroids for such purposes.

More annoyingly, you've just created a that out-sex-appeals the Eros by 2, Eros-TS by 1, and nearly matches the Submissa (assuming identical amount of training). The Triads will keep an eye on you.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ Keeper
GMing: 'Deniable, Undocumented Expenses', set in �S
Playing: Richard Caine, social interface, in Clancy's THS game (please comment his reports; upd. 02-Sep-2013).

(This is one of a few official GURPS types who is totally okay having their name associated with weird discussions about simulationist sex in their tabletop games. -BM)

nick012000 posted:

quote:
Echoing other people in this thread, I'd like to offer the criticism that you seem to have built the Foxwife Domestic Bioroid around your (apparent) fetish for an eternally young submissive fox-girl maid sex slave wife-thingy. Rather than, say, meeting some commercial or practical need.

It seems that, outside of a small group people with very specific sexual interests, this bioroid isn't very useful; neither as an element to put into a campaign world, nor to play in a game or have as an ally.

(Okay, not everyone has gone insane, whew. -BM)

I dunno. I think they'd be popular enough among groups like Men Going Their Own Way, or a lot of nerdy unwilling virgins. People that want relationships with women, but are either too inept to form one with a human woman, or too wary of the potential legal entanglements involved.

(Oh I don't like where this is going. -BM)

quote:

quote:
Well, wow, no ****. Even on 4chan people are told to take this stuff to /d/ or the closest ERP thread.

This is a bioroids thread. This model is less /d/ than some of the official SJG bioroid models. (Yes, and it's creepy even when Transhuman Space devotes a few pages every supplement to sex bioroids. -BM)
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ Keeper
GMing: 'Deniable, Undocumented Expenses', set in �S
Playing: Richard Caine, social interface, in Clancy's THS game (please comment his reports; upd. 02-Sep-2013).

quote:

I am aware of that, and I think Bio-Tech is a fantastic exercise in presenting fetishes as legitimate parts of an RPG supplement.

(Uhhhh )

quote:

The bioroid type not being "family friendly" might not be as much of a worry in the THS version of 2100. Sexual mores seem more relaxed than today in the US. Heck, some parents might even want a highly trained, sex capable bioroid to educate their children in a controlled manner.

(Hahahahaha )

nick012000 posted:

quote:
Better to own a slave than to be one, eh? I'm not especially sympathetic to your position.

Better to own a willing slave than be forced to become one unwillingly by the government, yes.

nick012000 posted:

quote:
Obviously lots of legal problems with bioroids especially sex bioroids depending on jurisdiction. Even in most places that this model would be legal it is fairly regulated. Legal issues with marriage are probably slightly more complicated almost every where (where there is such a legal institution anyway). Basically no legal complications from VR sex with your VI or through Slinks almost anywhere though, and it's way cheaper too!

Yeah, but a bioroid won't divorce you on the drop of a hat and sue you for child support and alimony, with the threat of being thrown in prison if you fail to make your payments (even if they're more than you're capable of paying, because, say, you lost your job after your divorce). Seriously, the modern family court system is ****ed up.

()

nick012000 posted:

quote:
Oh dear. Are you an MRA, nick?

Yes, I am, and for good reason. Feminism is one of the worst things to happen to Western society in the 20th Century. They like to claim it's all about equality, but it's not; it's about money and power. You know how they say "Feminism is the radical idea that women are people?" They say that because they don't see men as people, and they're too self-centered to realise that men don't think the same way women do.

nick012000 posted:

quote:
I have come here to laugh at you.

That's nice. I don't care. Classic feminist, using shaming tactics rather than actually trying to counter my arguments (because you know you can't, without sounding incoherent).

quote:

[MOD]

The tangent on MRA/feminism/etc. is not appropriate for this subforum. If you wish to continue it, take it to GenChat, but be warned that as a flammable topic, it will be treated harshly in case anyone steps over the line of polite discussion.
(Also, just in case you do continue it in GenChat, make sure you get your terminology straight: there are apparently anywhere from 3-5 to much more different and incompatible agendas lumped under the term 'feminism'; whether it is the same with MRA I have no idea.)

[/MOD]
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ Keeper
GMing: 'Deniable, Undocumented Expenses', set in �S
Playing: Richard Caine, social interface, in Clancy's THS game (please comment his reports; upd. 02-Sep-2013).

(Yes let's get back to the discussion about our creepy fetish fodder )

BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 21, 2013

# ? Dec 21, 2013 12:12

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

quote:

E needs to dire in a fire and remain dead for ever more.

D&D adventures should not be doled out in bite-sized morcels for easy PC consumption, which is exactly what encounter-based design results in : a monotonous game on rails.

Even the lead module designer of 4e said so in an interview, that 2-page encounter templates were an artifact of the system, and they "blew up the game" by doing that, it put their design on rails.

Not every battle needs to be a set-piece, that kind of thinking is video-gamey meta-gamey munchkin thinking, because then you'd need "balanced" encounters which in practice means "PCs are meant to win". That is a HORRIBLE way to design a game, people see right through that, it's player entitlement at its worst.

As I said, encounter powers forces the game into encounter-sized chunks. Short rests being 1/hour means you could still have to clear several battles in between, there is still no assumption that you will be at 95% full power for each and every battle of the day. It leads to the rollercoaster joy-ride / kids amusement park-type D&D game, where each battle you start at near full, and go down to 1/4 to 1/2 resources, then back to 90%, then back to 20%, then back to 80%, then back to 20%, it's freaking lame and awful and I hope they NEVER utter the word "this is an encounter" in any formulaic way, again. You can use the word encounter in casual use, but the term itself should have zero mechanical impact or rules interactions. The DM and the PCs decide if they want to press on, their abilities refresh when they are able to rest, which isn't every 5 minutes in this game. There is no way you can beat a dungeon if you want to wait an hour after each room so you can play munchkin-city adventures.

gently caress people who want, you know, game balance and good story. The PCs should LOOOSE.

WotC Next forums. As usual, cheating.

# ? Dec 21, 2013 12:27

Nancy_Noxious: Apr 10, 2013; by Smythe

You're right, it is cheating.

quote:

I'm fine with optional things being optional and defaults being classic.

I'm not fine with weird things like damage on a miss being default and them forcing us to house rule it out to play a classic game where fighters don't dole out automatic damage every round for the entire campaign.

If Rodney, you are reading this, realize that spell points and damage on a miss are two equally controversial topics, and controversial things should be made optional, while keeping classic D&D rules and "feel" preserved. Spell points is not classic D&D, even though I would gladly try it, I'm glad it's strictly optional (though I would have preferred it being put into a class like warlock or sorcerer rather than as a module that affects them all, simply put, it will be a hacky unbalaned kludge-fest without tons of public testing to iron out the issues).

Wizards simply does not have a very good record of pulling out entirely new spellcasting mechanics that works well, especially when they rush them out the door sight unseen. This spell point system needs to get feedback from the public, not just internal playtests. It will simply be too full of holes and broken combos and interactions unless it is vetted by the D&D public. Then you can ignore the feedback of those who hate spell points, since it's optional and they won't use it. That is NOT the same thing as what you've done with Damage on a Miss, you're trying to shove that down our throats despite huge opposition to it, and make it the system default rather than a strictly quarantined optional module like this spellpoints system or tactical modules rules with stuff like facing and flanking.

Damage on a miss is a munchkin playstyle that has NO business being the default in D&D, for exactly the same reason that spell points vs vancian should not be the default either. Make classic rules, like fighters deal NO damage when they roll poorly on their D20s (that has been there from 1e until 4e turned the game upside down and drove off 1/2 the players, Mike's own words, man).

MAKE CONTROVERSIAL NEW THINGS STRICTLY, EXPLICITLY OPTIONAL, NOT the default!! Wizard PCs CANNOT just pick spell points without agreement from the DM and the other players, that's exactly what Damage on a Miss needs to be : voted upon by every player, and NOT the default assumption for any fighter / ranger / paladin to pick from and screw with the immersion and enjoyment of the game for 1/2 the playerbase out there.

# ? Dec 21, 2013 13:27

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

BattleMaster posted:

This time on It Came From The GURPS Forums: MRA provides stats for a genetically-engineered foxgirl sextoy because real women are disgusting feminists who refuse to treat him like a person and have forced him into involuntary celibacy

Holy loving poo poo. He was fairly infamous in Exalted circles for being a moron, but in all that time he never let on that he was so loving awful. This is great!

Oddly, he was in an Eclipse Phase thread about some pointlessly sexy art in a book, and his opinion brushed up against being non-horrible.

quote:

Yup. This, along with the human arms and total lack of pig-like proportions were my main problem with the picture. It's basically a six-titted human with a pig's head, and being simply stocky humans with pig's heads is one of the major problems with them. It's like the artist went "Neo-pigs? Orcs are sort of piglike, so I'll just draw an orc with a pig's head." Seriously, look at that picture. Pigs aren't broad, they're deep. If you put a pig up on two legs, and looked at them head on, they'd be like an oval facing you, rather than perpendicular from you like humans are.

�because he wanted his anthropomorphized pig lady to be stockier and have flatter tits, like an actual pig.

Here're some posts from that thread that don't live up to nick012000's feminist standards:

quote:

quote:
I'm having trouble figuring out why the teats are bothering people. Tit's on a pig don't bother me because pigs/neopigs are not part of my sexual interests.

I think it is just the tits that bother people. It is like the reaction to any other depiction of sexy women. Some people just find that sort of art demeaning and think that it was there to pander to a male audience. It's obviously a silly idea, since sexy women actually exist in the real world and you find them in all walks of life, from soldiers to lawyers to fast food workers, and presumably such women also exist in EP. Of course combat armor that doesn't cover the vitals is stupid, butthat doesn't mean all women always wear practical clothing.

quote:

JFC! are we stiiiiiil talking about titties? ARRRGH! I'd say getthefuqoverit but I feel I need to defend the pic on p82.

HOW does the pic on p.82 remotely qualify as a T&A piece? I say that's a ridiculous assertion, so (sorry Codebreaker, much respect otherwise), I am about to ridicule.

1. This is Classic comic book art and posing. If spiderman had been posed in the place of the female no one would be bitching about it. Batman, Wolverine, wonderwoman, spiderwoman, ALL of the XMEN, All of the JLA except superman, have been depicted in very similar action poses.

The picture tells a great story by using a few tricks; the two figures are posed in a triangular composition over the radial composition of the back ground this creates a tension between the figures and the background that lets the action of the figures stand out. They both violate and match the background which highlights the single place where the main figure interacts with the background.

On top of this radial/triangular composition the focal points of the composition are linear. This draws the eye along the line of action in a specific order, further violating the radial composition and creating tension. This line of action runs from top left to bottom right; buttocks, face, muzzle blast, explosion, purple blades. Furthermore the hard lines and bright highlites are on the primary character while the second figure and background are blurred by her speed. Putting the focus on the primary character draws the viewer along with her and allows the artist to create a kinetic impression while keeping the primary figure in focus.

Thus a story is told; The agile primary figure flips down the tunnel right past the blades of her antagonist before he can strike. She fires her weapon, destroying some of his gear while his mighty swing pulls him off balance.

2. "Catsuits" in space will be common because they are functional. Any space suit is a pressure suit. In low pressure environments you need pressure or your biomorph gets the bends and explosive flatulence. This can be provided by a bubble of compressed gas (like current, highly immobile, space suits) or it can be one of the mechanical pressure suits currently being prototyped at MIT, NASA and the ESA. If my job involvs flipping down a coridor I'm probably going to choose the mechanical type.

Can we now stop being offended by depictions of aspects of the female form? PLEASE? It's embarrassing me, and I'm trying to get women involved in my EP games.

http://mvl.mit.edu/EVA/biosuit/biosuit_images/Newman_biosuit.jpg
http://mvl.mit.edu/EVA/biosuit/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_activity_suit

[edit] there is one problem with the picture and it's a problem with the compositing where the second figures leg has been cut off. It's a little lazy and I would have fixed it but there are only so many hours before a deadline. It was accepted by the art director so it's a win for the artist. Blame the editor.

�
Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

actual Eclipse Phase ?developer/author/art director? jackgraham posted:

[picture of milking sow with distended teats]

Sorry for the lack of verisimilitude. Twelve teats would have been more accurate.

jackgraham again posted:

We debated this illo a good deal. The artist swayed us by sending us like 10 pictures of Spiderman & other male heroes in more or less the exact same pose.

As to Ms. Piggy, y'all might be interested in seeing a bit of what our process looks like. We start out with art notes. Here are the ones I wrote for that piece (yeah, like the Suryas, I accept full responsibility for this one).

4. Scum Barge Chemist Background: Brinker Faction: Scum Morph: Hyperpig Key Augmentations: Enhanced Smell, Extra Limbs, Mental Speed Key Skills: Academics (Chemistry), Profession (Chemical Engineering) "The bacon I'm eating? No, it's not weird at all. It's human bacon. Eat up, long pig."

Illustration: A humanoid pig in a white bodysuit with medical markings. Its build is somewhat delicate, with rows of mammaries in front, suggesting that it might be female. Its ears and nose are pierced, and exposed skin is heavily tattooed. Some of the tattooing extends to the bodysuit � dotted lines showing where cuts of meat would be on an actual pig. It's wearing a fair amount of equipment � stuff appropriate to a chemist � and has two long, spidery cyberlimbs extending from its shoulders. It should also have some type of sidearm; this is an anarchist pig, after all. No tusks (the girls don't have 'em). She's got mental adaptations for extremely fast thinking, so if you want, give her a raised ridge on her cranium where exposed blood vessels act as a heat sink.

So in my writer-brain, she starts out as Irken Conjoiner Ironic High-on-All-the-Drugs Pig. Sometimes (as with the Salamander morph in Sunward, or Wernecke's illos in Glory), the artist makes me loving SQUEEEE with their seemingly telepathic rendition of exactly what I had in my head. Other times (Martian Ranger), I'm left wondering if the result couldn't have been better. But at the end of the day, every time we write art notes, it's kind of a trust fall. The artists are our collaborators, and for what we pay them, we expect a small amount of give & take regarding the final product. Most of the time we can get a piece to where we want it to be without asking too much of the artist and without blowing our deadline. In an ideal world, this would always happen.

So I am torn on my dear Scum Barge Chemist. She was so beautiful/ugly in my head, weird-rear end porcine teats & all. I'm pleased to a small extent by the quite visceral reactions she's raised in this & other forums. That was very much my intention. But I say this while acknowledging the technical faults of the illo, which I think might've been resolved if we'd had more in the way of time/money to work with the artist on improving the piece.

I hope that some of you use her in your campaigns, and that your own mental image of her is hosed up and wonderful.

"Spider-Man does weird flexible stuff, therefore it is exactly the same when women do it."

quote:

Look, you're not complaining about sexism. You're going off on some hardcore feminismistic tangent where you're the one stigmatizing people. You're making a problem of normal stuff, and when it comes to actually sexy women, you're downright biased against them as well as the men that like that. What you're saying, if the same was said about the men at a gay pride, the person uttering would be labelled a homophobe instantly, and rightly so. You're the same.

jackgraham, uncontroversial moderator who probably frowns on cross-forum drama posted:

Keep it civil, citizens.

Cool it down, or take it over to RPG.net.

Thanks.

quote:

quote:
That's what makes it classic T&A; it's a drawing of a woman in a sexualized outfit in a sexualized pose that serves mainly to titillate.

Dude! You're making it sound as if you can't turn to page 82 without popping wood, and transhuman should be sold in a plain brown paper wrapper.

That's an unfortunate opinion. Everyone is now aware of your unfortunate opinion. Can I suggest, please, that you remark on a different subject? I like my female friends to read this forum and none of them are comfortable when pictures depicting females are analyzed under a microscope for possibly sexual content.

Thanks.

quote:

quote:
I'll try to keep this civil:
[...]

"It's also disingenious to compare males poses to female poses, because there is not a widespread pervasive culture of sexually objectifying imagery directed towards men.

[...]

The problem is that this kind of sexualization is something that women are disproportionately targeted by.

It's not keeping it civil just because you don't curse.

I'm getting pretty tired of hearing your bigotred commentary about the sexuality of people like myself and my girlfriend. What you're saying is EXACTLY the same as when right wing pundits make a problem out of MTV's "gay agenda" or some such stigmatizing nonsense.

If you can't dial down the hetero hate, then maybe not post?

# ? Dec 21, 2013 14:34

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Plague of Hats posted:

Holy loving poo poo. He was fairly infamous in Exalted circles for being a moron, but in all that time he never let on that he was so loving awful. This is great!

He managed to earn a permaban from RPGnet back in 2008

Nick012000, opining on the game "JadeClaw", posted:

No. It's Furry Faggotry, the RPG. And if you know what Yiffing is, you'll know why the word faggotry is appropriate here.

He had a whole bunch of other terrible non-gaming opinions too, but those are outside the scope of grognards.txt. A thoroughly awful human being.

# ? Dec 21, 2013 14:53

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Plague of Hats posted:

Holy loving poo poo. He was fairly infamous in Exalted circles for being a moron, but in all that time he never let on that he was so loving awful. This is great!

I didn't realize that he was "known", my goodness. I did a search on his history and went for several pages without running into anything particularly horrible even though it had the potential to be (he isn't a racist at least.) Then I ran into this:

quote:

I'll also point out that certain groups, like teenage girls and crazy feminists, will choose to become homosexual for ideological or cultural reasons. I'll again point out the two parahuman species that are almost entirely lesbian.

Yeahhhh.... I like the Transhuman Space setting but for some reason it seems to bring out the worst in some people. I guess a setting based entirely around social issues will force people with bad opinions to out themselves.

# ? Dec 21, 2013 15:00

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

This time on It Came From The GURPS Forums: "ST of a sphincter" (actual thread title)

OP posted:

Ok, so, there is a recurring 300ft tall, 1,000 ST monster in our setting. The thing is, one player always wants to attack by going through the anus and assaulting its innards, and we've always just let him in via vibratory assault on the sphincter. Should he use a different character, what kind of ST would he need to, umm, gain entry?

OP posted:

quote:
I'd call it a Quick Contest of ST, halved on the part of the victim if the attacker achieves total surprise.

I might also suggest Psychology on the player... (And the GM, too. -BM)

Somehow, I doubt the ST of your anus is anywhere near your overall ST, though...

quote:

It maintains an air-tight seal for hours or days at a time and is highly effective at it's job.

Your character on the other hand, is attempting to push their way through this highly effective seal with little or no leverage, in an area of the body designed to limit outwards resistance.

I would consider a straight ST vs ST contest to be fairly generous towards the character myself.

On the other hand, should the character be on a platform that is able to take at least half the weight of the target and use that for leverage, I could see giving a small bonus.

Using some sort of crane to press the character into the target could let the character use the ST of the crane, but I would also consider inflicting Thrust-crushing damage on the character for attempting this stunt.

OP posted:

quote:
Wouldn't the ...unhealthyness... of such an assault require constitution checks? (Ie bacteria causing illness, stench causing involuntary retching, slipperiness of fecal matter causing character to drop items, being expelled by contents of intestines?). If the creature eats people, are there weapons to be impaled on in the fecal matter? If the stomach can dissolve armor and weapons, how caustic is the crap?

We're more worried about the effort required to gain entry; he's insane enough to deal with the other details! (You're SO close to being self aware! -BM)

GURPS: Just because it can do everything doesn't mean you shouldn't do everything.

BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 21, 2013

# ? Dec 21, 2013 18:10

Chaltab: Feb 16, 2011; So shocked someone got me an avatar!

My God, the things that some people draw the line on.

---

quote:

I'll be perfectly fine [if Great Weapon Fighting doesn't change], because if that goes into 5th edition, my box is going to have Pathfinder's rulebooks in it instead of D&D. There's no way I'm buying into 5th edition if it's default is 4.5 edition.

Edit: Same thing goes with the recent revelations with Rogue's sneak attacks, and trying to shoot a monster that's behind an ally never hits an ally. I'm not playing a D&D that's designed around "You always win!"

"This edition has a couples rules I don't like, therefore I'll buy the broken-rear end third-party edition with feats that literally do nothing."

in reply to the above posted:

Yes, we will all be perfectly fine, but the insult will be unforgettable. You don't invite everyone back to the game, claim your making a game for all D&D players, and not provide options to support their playstyles. After that, I certainly won't buy another WotC version of D&D ever again. If fact i won't even give them a single page view on their website from that point forward.

I think that human beings are evolving into two separate species: one with the capacity for self-awareness and the ability to detect irony, and one utterly without.

# ? Dec 21, 2013 21:58

Chaltab: Feb 16, 2011; So shocked someone got me an avatar!

quote:

Actually, a pretty substantial amount of the criticism about 4th edition was aimed at "Dissonant Mechanics" as they ended up termed, which we're seeing repeated again here today. 4th edition's powers worked all of the time, even when it didn't make sense for them to work, and player's were encouraged to come up with whatever they could think of to explain away why it worked. Which is where we're at with Damage on a Miss, Inspirational Healing, Sneak Attacks that work on everything, and Shooting into Melee. We also have marking, and IIRC cannonized "Trip ability". If I hadn't lost my playtest packet in a hard drive crash, I could pick out more things. A fair amount of these things appear to be default, if not all of them.

This is all very much "4th edition design", where rather than create a logically consistent and sensible world, things just happen even though they cannot be explained (Without creating 12 more problems). Previous editions strove to keep it to a minimum, rather than make it a design goal, making this a decidedly 4th edition design pattern, and since it's at the forefront of the design, it makes it 4.5 edition.

As I said before, I'm perfectly fine with them being options, and I'll pick up a sign and campaign alongside the 4th edition players for their inclusion as options, even though I hate every one of those things. I'm not ok with them being default, if it's the default there's no way WOTC's going to convince me to adopt 5th edition.

# ? Dec 21, 2013 22:03

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

quote:

How many of the people who ponied up for this crowd-funding are aware of this...

The company that paid $1000? The other 100-odd backers?

http://thedongion.blogspot.co.uk/ [goon note: boring RPG-centric Onion ripoff ?joking? about Ettin libeling Desborough]

quote:

quote:
Hmm, i can't see Ettin listed as a mod anywhere at RPGnet at the moment.

Removed
hoping no-one noticed? Fallen on his sword?

That'd be so wonderful that it can't be true.

quote:

People like that never last long.

ZakS, if you're reading this can you post up or link to the list of names, or even PM me with them if posting them here isn't appropriate, googling "Lehman's statement is public" only brings me back to the Pundit's same blog post.

quote:

I love the white people worrying about the Drow being a projection of white sexual Otherness. I quite seriously would not be bothered if those people were eaten by cannibals. African, Elvish cannibals.

quote:

While I support the fact that people are concerned by the injustice in our world and want some change in the good direction, I actually see in theirs complains a new sort of the burden of being white. It is not something that feels good to read. And by the way, where do those people find some time to play any RPG with theirs concerns ?

quote:

I think almost all of them are full of poo poo.

They are more (fill-in-the-blank)-ist than most of the people they complain about.

quote:

I strongly disagree on the former two, in particular Desborough. He may be a shock jock but he was falsely accused of the kind of crime that will gently caress your life for all time, and the perpetrators of this criminal falsehood are for the most part refusing to recant by all accounts.

It behooves all of us to stand up for not just the artistic integrity that Desborough admittedly pushes the edges of, but for the innocence of a human being in a culture that is rapidly becoming one of rape hysteria.

A swift dose of punitive legal action is just the ticket here. They may spend the next ten years paying it off, but they would have been quite happy to see James in prison for longer, among people who take a dim view of sexual offences, for the terrible act of infringing on their mental safe spaces. Bunch of overentitled clowns. Especially that gibbering idiot ettin.

OH MY GOOOOOOOOODDDD ETTTTIIIIIN :awesome:

# ? Dec 22, 2013 01:27

Guilty Spork: Feb 26, 2011; Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

Wow but that "The Dongion" site is awful. It's basically the RPG world's answer to Fox News' failed attempts at making a conservative version of The Daily Show.

quote:

Even Founder Now Bored By Story Games

Owner/Administrator of S-G forum steps down, citing burnout, fact that basically everything else is more interesting than it.

"Story Games just isn't the same as it used to be," remarked one user "I keep seeing threads where people raise issues about Old School D&D or Vampire and they'll get like five, sometimes ten answers that aren't panic-stricken gibberish. What's even the point anymore? Story-Games used to be about new games--and complaining bitterly about old ones--without that core experience, where are we? Who are we?"

quote:

Burning Wheel Fans' Idea Of A Party Is Blood-Curdling Hellscape

Shocking photos from Burning Con reveal: All stereotypes about indie gamers are true

Participant: "The flyer said 'party' on it but...the boners I lost there are never coming back."

Another witness claimed to be unable to sleep after the event, seeing only "A wide white wall -- hairless -- wreathed in microbrews."

# ? Dec 22, 2013 02:01

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Guilty Spork posted:

Wow but that "The Dongion" site is awful. It's basically the RPG world's answer to Fox News' failed attempts at making a conservative version of The Daily Show.

I feel like comparing. Let's take an Onion headline and first paragraph:

quote:

Dollar Tree CEO Officially Unveils Long-Rumored Foil Baking Pan
CHESAPEAKE, VA�At a highly anticipated launch event Tuesday, Dollar Tree CEO Bob Sasser ended months of fervent speculation over the latest phase of the national discount chain�s massively popular and influential kitchen products line by unveiling the company�s new foil baking pan.

Ah, it's a parody of those big expos like video games and Apple have! I found it silly.

What about the Dongion?

quote:

WOTC Announces Confirmation Bias Con For Summer 2014
In a press release this evening, Wizards of the Coast--manufacturers of Dungeons & Dragons--announced your summer will feature a lot of people repeating things they've been saying about a game they've never read for the last two years.

...Uh.

Let's compare images here. Part of the joy of The Onion is that they have amazing pictures to punctuate the headlines, like so:

What about the Dungion?

Notice how there's nothing there. That's as much as the Dungion put.

Onion!

quote:

Area Man Can Remember Exactly Where He Was, What He Was Doing When He Assassinated John F. Kennedy
LANGLEY, VA�Saying that he will never forget the events of that fateful day, local man Edgar Denton, 81, told reporters Friday that, five decades later, he could still recall exactly where he was and what he was doing the day he shot and killed former U.S. president John F. Kennedy.

I hope you see the joke here because if I have to explain it...

Dungion?

quote:

White People Complaining About Dark Elves Still Not Dead In Fire
Evidence released by authorities early this week reveals that, despite widespread outcry, various white people--including Joe McDaldno, author of a game about underage teen goth sex werewolves--are still complaining about the anthropology of fake elves and still not all dead yet.

This is just byzantine. I feel like there's some prerequisite reading in order to understand exactly what the writer is crying about here. Something involving Drow? And this guy doesn't like them? And even if I did I can still tell it wouldn't be funny at all.

# ? Dec 22, 2013 02:24

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Plague of Hats posted:

quote:
quote:
Hmm, i can't see Ettin listed as a mod anywhere at RPGnet at the moment.

Removed
hoping no-one noticed? Fallen on his sword?

That'd be so wonderful that it can't be true.

quote:

quote:
His name's been added back to the forum list of mods.

Investigation affirmative! Action negative!

which just proves what tools they are. I just linked to Paul's blog where he trashed TBP and admitted to trolling them for lulz, and they STILL have him as a mod?

they brought this upon themselves, and one can only assume this is what they want.

someone really good at writing and formatting coherent posts posted:

Not "google 'lehman's statement is public'.

Just Google. Lehman's statement is public. Like so:
https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1...tics+with+rape

...which will get you to Ben Lehman's most recent edit of his statement:
https://plus.google.com/117301572585...ts/MGSmd26WUU2

As of this date on my browser, there are two smug avatars in the lower right corner of that statement. Click them to see the list of people who are currently broing down the support for Ben Lehman.

That list includes Paul Ettin (and even though The Dongion is usually a joke blog, every word of the most recent entry is true so, hey, why not write a letter asking Chris Allen and Shannon for a public statements about the fake-rape-threat thing?) and some sock puppets and a lot of Grogs.txt alumni.

Paul originally +1;ed the statement while it still had this language,
(This is the text of Ben's original and now-proven-to-be-wrong statement):

"
Dear Indie+...

Are you seriously billing James D as a "free speech advocate?" Someone who threatens their critics with rape is not a free speech advocate, they're just a regular old misogynist. I realize that misogyny is so common in TRPGs that it seems like water off a duck's back but seriously?
....[some not relevant stuff removed]
As an alternative billing can I suggest "known for threatening his critics with sexual violence and for his trivializing use of rape for cheap thrills?"

Comments are off because I don't care for comments on this.

"

As for people who removed their plus ones without making an apology or in any way admitting what they did was wrong, there are quite a few, e-mail me or just add me on G+ and scroll down for the full list. If you're not smart enough to be able to find my email address, we're probably all better off with you not having any more information in your hands than you already do.

Enemies lists are my favorite Cracked articles.

# ? Dec 22, 2013 05:35

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

This is just byzantine. I feel like there's some prerequisite reading in order to understand exactly what the writer is crying about here. Something involving Drow? And this guy doesn't like them? And even if I did I can still tell it wouldn't be funny at all.

The joke is that RPG.net actually thinks racism is bad.

Because RPG.net is seen as being very liberal, and RPGSite defines itself inherently as it's opposite, RPGSite has slowly been going more and more super-conservative. RPG.net cares about minorities? Well, RPGSite is now filled with literal white supremacists. RPG.net is worried about how women are treated in gaming? Well, RPGSite thinks it's totally ok to constantly talk about raping women and include it in all their games (while criticizing any OTHER game that does it, of course). Desborough has made a career based around writing really terrible RPG materials that all focus on demeaning women. RPG.net thinks it's bad to demean women? Then RPGSite must embrace it as much as possible.

Part of it is due to being RPG.net's trash bag; they get all the filth that RPG.net bans and nobody else wants. Part of it is slowly taking farther and farther into extremes out of spite. I mean, you have a forum made inherently out of obsessive lovely people being pushed to become shittier; it shouldn't be too surprising.

Now, on the note of Next - it's amazing how paranoid, petty, and obsessive the 3.x crowd is getting in regards to 4e. Any mechanic that they don't like, anything that could ever be seen as being remotely connected to 4e, is now a part of the 4e MENACE that is infecting our wondrous games. Even poo poo that started in 3.x, if it was tainted by 4e, it must be purged.

And now, some brain damage.

~*~

quote:

NPC classes always annoyed me because their only purpose is to add the illusion of simulation simply to satisfy a particular design philosophy. NPC's with skills are best hand-waved. They are a collection of skills, as that is how the players will interact with them.

So, let's start from first principle.

Good RPG design suggests that as a proposition decreases in risk and interest, the number of fortune rolls decreases proportionally. In general, this suggests that if the outcome of the proposition doesn't really matter, we shouldn't bother with dice or mechanics.

In this case, basic RPG principles suggest that in the majority of cases, NPC's don't have and don't need stats. There is usually not a case where the NPC does something where we need to really worry about the outcome enough to throw a dice about it.

But, that isn't always true. We do care about exactly what an NPC can do when the NPC is acting as a foil, villain, ally, or ward of the PC.

There are basically now two theories here, depending on what we are willing to risk. Either we can pick what happens based on what the Storyteller(s) think is best for the narrative, in which case we still don't need stats but we're risking impartiality and not allowing ourselves the joy of unexpected surprises, or we can try to resolve the test within the constraints of the system in which case impartiality demands stats and preferably stats that can be derived from the context as needed.

In general, there are two ways to define something. Either we can make a list, or we can make a 'rule'. Both have advantages and we might choose one or the other depending on the scale of the thing being described and often we choose 'both'. We make a system for the sake of consistency and make lists for the sake of usability.

Where I find the system is particularly useful is when I'm surprised by the fact than an NPC has become elevated to a position I didn't anticipate. Suddenly, I've gone from a note that says 'Expert 2' or 'Craft (Masonry) +9' to needing a bunch of attributes I never expected to know for this NPC because I never expected them to matter. For example, I had a very minor NPC - a 1st level clerk - that I never even necessarily expected the characters to meet become elevated to an important NPC because he was adopted as the henchmen/ward of the party. In this capacity, it's easy to conceive that I need to know everything about the characters abilities, and not just 'Knowledge (Math & Accounting) +10'. Having a system lets me build the character in a way that a monster manual entry for 'Apprentice Clerk' (!!!) doesn't, even if the writers of the monster manual could anticipate my need for an apprentice clerk. In the same way that a robust character creation system helps inform good character design (if it is indeed well designed) or at least imaginative character design, having robut NPC generation can be a good thing.

In short, I don't think we can know how NPC's will be interacted with unless we are on a railroad. I've had NPC's meant to be quest givers/mentors end up being enemies/foils, and NPC's meant to be enemies become allies. The course of the story seldom goes where I anticipate it.

# ? Dec 22, 2013 07:11

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

ProfessorCirno posted:

Part of it is due to being RPG.net's trash bag; they get all the filth that RPG.net bans and nobody else wants. Part of it is slowly taking farther and farther into extremes out of spite. I mean, you have a forum made inherently out of obsessive lovely people being pushed to become shittier; it shouldn't be too surprising.

I think it's pretty telling that Pundit is slipping more into the background of RPGSite. He's at least careful in his expressed opinions on Desborough�he thinks he should be allowed to say whatever he wants, even if he doesn't want to hear it himself. Meanwhile his Very Own Forum is filling up with MRAs and poor, burdened white men. The rabble seems to be ramping up their willingness to exploit the "you can even tell the site owners to go gently caress themselves if you want" ethos.

quote:

And now, some brain damage.

Me too!

quote:

quote:
To counter your copyright argument, WotC doesn't care how you play the game, they are the only ones who can slap Dungeons and Dragons on a product

but sadly the mindless drones don't get this. those players that jsut ASSUME that RAW is the way to play because "rules over rulings", and people in general that dont understand the concepts of D&D.

the "one true dwarf" concept will ring with everyone and be forced that way. jsut looka t the fact that things from 3rd are still present that nobody knows why.

yes warforged WERE forced as a "core" game thing. but the concept of "core" is lost to WotC. they called it "well tested and balanced", but the populace still considers "core" to mean, "MUST BE ALLOWED IN ALL GAMES".

this is something that started with 2.5 very heavily, and had only slightly been focused on prior.

now it is NOT bad to have a single dwarf in the "core rules", those which make up the basic generic game. but if you say THIS IS THE DEFAULT DWARF in the PHB, then ANY setting will be poo poo on, when people that don't get it will try to force the use of the "core" dwarf.

just look how people treat 3.x to end up with CoDzilla.. "its int eh core book so i can do it!"

do you not see that or how reducing the races is funny when the classes are being inflated with subclasses? why remove subraces? "because it takes a lot of work" to quote Wyatt. well you know those subclasses took work too. why get lazy now?

they tried the unified classes that were just the same thing with different names stuck on them with postit notes. it didnt work for 4th.

it is just how things are presented, and Wyatt is terrible at expressing ANYTHING. probably why he had to quit being a minister. then add his lack of ability to communicate to the fat the books will be printed in China... yeah, that is going to work well.

i mean you must really have a hardon for Wyatt and Mearls if you can sit and read any of their columns and not see just how utterly loving stupid they poo poo they write is.

remember it was Wyatt that said "talking to the city guards isnt fun" and thinks the game is only about combat. so HOW in the gently caress would he understand what is a good story element since all he wants from D&D is a combat game?

again he deigned that ettercaps had to be spider farmers that sell pixie parts to hags. he wants things to be related in D&D for HIS story of D&D, and that will be a case where it will conflict with MANY people that have their own imagination, let alone a decent one.

Wyatt should be shoved over to the board games division where he can make stupid one-off ideas where a single type of dwarf will work.

Just a constant stream of entitled bullshit about something he's never going to like and thinks is doomed no matter what.

# ? Dec 22, 2013 07:31

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:35

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

Apparently there's a furry porn themed TCG called Furoticon that you can buy physical cards of. I'm not going to post quotes or images or rules or anything because I really don't know what the line here is, I'm sure you can find it yourself. But I had to share this knowledge with you all.

quote:

To put it simply, blaster wizards suck every cock. If you're not a complete retard, you'll understand that the way wizards, and indeed, other spellcasters who don't fellate their paternal ancestors or my butt alternately, win combats is by laying down ONE spell that ends it, like stinking cloud or wail of the banshee, or by buffing themselves into the stratosphere by somehow cheating the buffs onto all-day mode (such as through wild shape or DMM Persist). If spellcasters in your game fellate designer intent and blow limited resources to blow goats for pocket change, you'll obviously not understand why the system needs correcting.
I've tried to reasonably explain why there is a problem. You don't seem to think the problem exists - fine. Clearly, you have your own solutions, a la the Paizils and the 4rries. Hence, please stop making GBS threads up the talk page of a suggestion which (while not 100% to my taste) is actually helpful and reasonable, to say nothing of effective. - MisterSinister 03:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

This isn't particularly grognardy but the sheer rage is wonderful. Also, 'Paizils'?

# ? Dec 22, 2013 07:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > grognards.txt - sandbox gamers are the John Galts of the RPG world

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