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AXE COP posted:Okay yeah, maybe that was an overreaction, but it still seems unnecessary and inconsistent with every other attribute purely being combat-related. Definitely a strong reaction, but I don't think you're wrong that tying stats to largely quality of life features is silly. You either end up with a situation where you need to pump a stat you don't otherwise care about just to avoid obnoxious timesinks, or one where that particular function of the stat is safely ignored and might as well not exist. Then again, in a party-based game it's not that big of an issue. You'll probably have someone with high str around just coincidentally to act as a packhorse.
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Dec 17, 2013 03:24
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So Strength would affect how many grimoires a Wizard could carry?
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Dec 17, 2013 03:26
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AXE COP posted:Okay yeah, maybe that was an overreaction, but it still seems unnecessary and inconsistent with every other attribute purely being combat-related.
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Dec 17, 2013 03:31
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It's definitely going to be weird not having strength relate to damage in any way, but I think y'all are overestimating the inventory management issues. PoE likely won't have much in the way of "inventory full, find the item with the worst weight:cost ratio to drop" because you can send stuff you don't plan on using directly to an inaccessible-on-the-field stash. Carrying capacity, in this case, will effectively be combat-related, as it'll be what determines how many alternate weapons, consumables, etc. you can have. Right?
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Dec 17, 2013 03:31
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speng31b posted:Definitely a strong reaction, but I don't think you're wrong that tying stats to largely quality of life features is silly. You either end up with a situation where you need to pump a stat you don't otherwise care about just to avoid obnoxious timesinks, or one where that particular function of the stat is safely ignored and might as well not exist. It's really not even that much of a quality of life thing, though. Not only do you have a party, but you also have an infinite stash. The only thing a low strength character misses is some possibility to use inventory right after getting it.
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Dec 17, 2013 03:31
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The Crotch posted:It's definitely going to be weird not having strength relate to damage in any way, but I think y'all are overestimating the inventory management issues. PoE likely won't have much in the way of "inventory full, find the item with the worst weight:cost ratio to drop" because you can send stuff you don't plan on using directly to an inaccessible-on-the-field stash. Carrying capacity, in this case, will effectively be combat-related, as it'll be what determines how many alternate weapons, consumables, etc. you can have.
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Dec 17, 2013 03:34
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Dr Subterfuge posted:It's really not even that much of a quality of life thing, though. Not only do you have a party, but you also have an infinite stash. The only thing a low strength character misses is some possibility to use inventory right after getting it. Yeah, it sounds like in this case it's really not a major issue.
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Dec 17, 2013 03:34
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I want to buy the digital expansion now but am wary, since I'm sure there will be a collector's version. Does committing to buy it now lock us into the regular version, or will we be able to 'upgrade' later for the difference in cost if we want to?
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Dec 17, 2013 03:59
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A collector's edition of the expansion? I would expect it to be purely digital and I wouldn't expect, like, preorder DLC.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:27
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In regards to carrying capacity, I think a lot of players main gripe is that carrying capacity limits out in the field cause a lot of aggravation, when they need to shuffle inventory around. If I have the dubious wish to pack 16 suits of chainmail+1 back to camp for selling, I have to hand that all off to Gorktar, my dumbass half-orc berserker who can't identify any of the magical poo poo he's carrying. Then I end up having to play shuffle inspect at base camp just to off-load all that crap at a reasonable price. I know it's not an issue now, but that honestly depends on how much loot there is on a given outing, and just how much the player feels like channeling their inner klepto. As an aside, the first thing I do when playing Skyrim/F:NV is to download an infinite inventory mod. I don't remember what Abraxo cleaner is good for, but I know it makes something, somewhere, eventually, so might as well carry 20 of the drat things.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:29
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That's what we're chatting about. PE has a "stash", which is infinitely sized and you can drop stuff into whenever, but can only withdraw from at camp. So anything you're only grabbing for money or because you might need it later goes in the stash, and you only keep in inventory what you'll need for the outing ahead.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:31
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Strength in this game basically sounds basically like Vitality in Demon's Souls (HP and item capacity) but with the item part of that basically being an advanced form of Deep Pockets from X-Com; it determines how many goodies and spare weapons you get to bring to the fight, but does not limit your looting. Sounds pretty good to me, and makes a strength wizard with huge arms capable of carrying his entire library in one hand while he reads out death and destruction from the other. I can dig it.
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Dec 17, 2013 05:14
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User0015 posted:In regards to carrying capacity, I think a lot of players main gripe is that carrying capacity limits out in the field cause a lot of aggravation, when they need to shuffle inventory around. If I have the dubious wish to pack 16 suits of chainmail+1 back to camp for selling, I have to hand that all off to Gorktar, my dumbass half-orc berserker who can't identify any of the magical poo poo he's carrying. Then I end up having to play shuffle inspect at base camp just to off-load all that crap at a reasonable price. RPG Item Hoarding is a disease, please seek help
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Dec 17, 2013 07:01
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Ither posted:So Strength would affect how many grimoires a Wizard could carry? You know, I like this idea- a 'traditional' Wizard would have more potent spells at his disposal, while the muscle mage would be more versatile. Maybe a perk/advance for Wizards that let them change grimoires out faster with a high Strength score?
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Dec 17, 2013 07:06
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Dual wielding grimoires, with a special ability if your strength is high enough that let you clap an enemy's head between two closed grimoires. That's quite a lot of weight to have your ears boxes with. And if it crits, it can just headsplode them, gibs, blood, and all. 
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Dec 17, 2013 08:42
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Eventually every road leads to a muscle wizard.
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Dec 17, 2013 09:34
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Actually I was gonna ask - are talents (or whatever the feat equivalents are called) tied to attributes at all? I figured they wouldn't be so as to avoid the sort of precognition required for competent 3rd ed D&D character building, but it's worth asking.
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Dec 17, 2013 10:05
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Basic Chunnel posted:Actually I was gonna ask - are talents (or whatever the feat equivalents are called) tied to attributes at all? I figured they wouldn't be so as to avoid the sort of precognition required for competent 3rd ed D&D character building, but it's worth asking. I'm hoping talents aren't tied to attribute scores, for the same reasons you have mentioned, but I would like for there to automatic passive talents (or something similar) that everyone gains for having certain attribute scores. I doubt this will be the case, but in my ideal world there would be passive talents for certain combinations of attribute scores, or specific class talents for attribute scores. I just really like anything that improves unique character, or indeed item, flavour.
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Dec 17, 2013 10:13
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AXE COP posted:$30 million: scrap all that dumb bullshit and make an Ars Magica game Didn't one Ars Magica computer game kickstarter already fail? Unfortunately.
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Dec 17, 2013 16:56
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Health is the one that's only tapped into if a character goes down right? So if you had enough Constitution or just played well enough you'd never need the bigger health pool from Strength.
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Dec 17, 2013 16:58
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Health is always tapped when you receive damage on a 1:4 rate (different rate for Barbarian IIRC), so having an health bonus is beneficial for everyone.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:07
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The health mechanic will definitely be interesting to see in game. My first reaction is 'huh that's weird' but maybe it will turn out to be a great new way to see party health. At worst at least they're trying something that will be exciting to explore.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:25
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:RPG Item Hoarding is a disease, please seek help Survival trait, sir. My favorite thing was doing the missions for the Boomers in F:NV and failing pretty much every check they had, but still completing their collection tasks instantly thanks to my kleptomaniac tendencies. Wizardry 8 (and previous ones?) had an excellent mesh of inventory management. Everyone was slot dependent in combat, holding 6 or 8 slots total without weight restrictions, and a party inventory accessible outside of combat that could hold an amount based on the combined parties strength (read: infinite). It essentially abstracted the concept by saying every party member was holding an equivalent portion of gear, but these 6 items are accessible in combat. They also had the option of looting things directly into the party inventory instead, or letting you drag and drop an item onto a specific character. Best inventory system.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:14
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User0015 posted:Survival trait, sir. My favorite thing was doing the missions for the Boomers in F:NV and failing pretty much every check they had, but still completing their collection tasks instantly thanks to my kleptomaniac tendencies. That sounds like this one, unless I misremember. Wiz 8 was such a fun game back in the day. 
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Dec 17, 2013 18:17
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Drifter posted:That sounds like this one, unless I misremember. Wiz 8 was such a fun game back in the day. I thought they were going for a style of belt/pocket items are accessible in combat, regular inventory is literally like the infinity engine games where you have rows of slots you drop items into and your carry weight goes up. I thought the only difference was that everyone's inventory opens at once and everything else is straight from the infinity engine.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:26
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A propos of nothing, I hope this game inspires a whole line of successors based on the Eternity engine
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Dec 17, 2013 18:33
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Darkhold posted:The health mechanic will definitely be interesting to see in game. My first reaction is 'huh that's weird' but maybe it will turn out to be a great new way to see party health. At worst at least they're trying something that will be exciting to explore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1p5ODJotT0 The blue bars are Endurance (which would be Stamina for us) and the red (? middle) bars are Strength (Health for us). Notice that at the end of the fight, all of their Endurance pops back up (in Darklands, it doesn't always fully replenish after every fight) but the Strength stays the same.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:12
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coffeetable posted:Wahey, attribute details: I look forward to breaking out the spreadsheets to figure out which of the three attack-related attributes I actually want to increase for more damage
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Dec 17, 2013 19:15
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I was recently replaying baldurs gate and it struck me as comical that I have never once, in my entire time playing infinity engine games, used a potion. Because using a potion is like eating money to me and I would always simply find a better way to do the fight instead :x
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Dec 17, 2013 19:28
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rope kid posted:It's not dramatically different from what's in Darklands. It's a kind of system I wish more games had, to be honest. Like, in Fallout people complain that you're immortal as long as you can open your inventory and stuff your gob with a hundred stimpacks, boxes of cookies, beers and bottled waters. With a Stamina/Health system, you can only put up with so much before you have to go see a loving doctor or take a nap or something. Trading one gripe for another depending on your perspective, though.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:29
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Androc posted:I look forward to breaking out the spreadsheets to figure out which of the three attack-related attributes I actually want to increase for more damage To be honest, so long as they all increase your effectiveness in different ways that make the character feel different to play it doesn't really matter which one gives 10% more dummy dps, it will work for 95% of players perfectly. It's only the truly egregious cases where you just have stats that are inferior versions of each other that you get das problemos.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:30
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SurrealityCheck posted:I was recently replaying baldurs gate and it struck me as comical that I have never once, in my entire time playing infinity engine games, used a potion. I'm playing Baldur's Gate 2 for the first time and really regretting how I handled the last fight in de'Arnise Keep. 
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Dec 17, 2013 19:30
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I don't know just a whole lot about this game other than what I've read on the main kickstarter page and the class descriptions in the OP, which seem pretty hybrid friendly with the "wizard who uses heavy armor, broadsword, arcane veil" description. I've always loved the idea of hybrid, do-everything classes. Yes, even in party RPGs, which I'm fully aware are conceptually kind of against each other but so what, it's a kick rear end fantasy world and I want to choose the role I play in my RPG! And the devs have even said it's possible to just not bring any companions along so why not be able to give one character an entire party's worth of abilities if you want? After all, we have difficulty settings to balance the situation for only one character, right? Anyway, anybody know if the Priest class will have any kind of dark or shadow type abilities? I'd love to know if it will be possible to build something like an armored, sword wielding dark caster with summonable minions type character. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 19:32
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I think it's evident from the Infinity Engine megathread that people find dual- and multi-classing really interesting/fun so I do hope that's something that could get implemented for the eventual sequel. That way there'd be the new character creation dynamics people might expect from a new installment without requiring the sudden introduction of new classes that might expose the lore or whatever as secondary to game mechanics. Obviously the design here is intended to make classes less restrictive as to what party role they'll fill but it's still just a fun character thing. Dual-classing especially is one of those totally illogical, arcane systems that has a lot of charm for how weird it is.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:43
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SurrealityCheck posted:I was recently replaying baldurs gate and it struck me as comical that I have never once, in my entire time playing infinity engine games, used a potion. I used to play like that. DnD Online kind of retrained me, because that's a game where consumables are everything (since it uses the non-regenerating health and finite spell system of 3.5 Edition). It expects wizards to pull out scrolls and use them constantly (something you'd never do other DnD games, because scrolls are worth so much money for a one-use item), firing off their limited charge wands at everything and chug various potions whenever the situation demands it. Acid Trap? Acid Protection potion! Jumping Puzzle? Jumping Potion! Hurt after the fight? Health potion. Now I play every game like that which makes the far easier.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:47
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SurrealityCheck posted:I was recently replaying baldurs gate and it struck me as comical that I have never once, in my entire time playing infinity engine games, used a potion. I've never understood this mentality. If you're not using your money/resources, there's no point in having them. It's like not eating food in real life because that's like eating money.
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Dec 17, 2013 20:17
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Captain Walker posted:A propos of nothing, I hope this game inspires a whole line of successors based on the Eternity engine
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Dec 17, 2013 20:19
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Wildstrike posted:Didn't one Ars Magica computer game kickstarter already fail? Unfortunately.  How the hell did I not hear about it last year? Goddamnit.I mean, I wouldn't have had $200k to splurge on it, so all I missed was a sharper disappointment. But still.
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Dec 17, 2013 20:22
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GreatGreen posted:I don't know just a whole lot about this game other than what I've read on the main kickstarter page and the class descriptions in the OP, which seem pretty hybrid friendly with the "heavy armor, broadsword, arcane veil" description. How would difficulty settings help balance that. What?
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Dec 17, 2013 20:39
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Mymla posted:I've never understood this mentality. If you're not using your money/resources, there's no point in having them. It's like not eating food in real life because that's like eating money. Yes, but you use your money on magic weapons and armour, not on things that cost money but you won't even have afterwards.
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Dec 17, 2013 21:01
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