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kastein posted:I'm going to sound like a 6.0hno owner here, but slap in the new set of head fasteners and/or timeserts and they go forever from what I know. As a former 6.0no owner I assure you that's not enough. Just to address two of the other most popular failures you need to replace or bypass the EGR cooler and there's really no way around having the injector driver poo poo the bed unless you replace and/or relocate it. Who would thunk that putting an aluminum box full of electronics underneath the firewall tunnel and next to a turbo would cause heat stress?
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Dec 19, 2013 01:01
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Geirskogul posted:The Northstar V8 is the worst engine ever designed. I've seen worse. All the Northstar needs is head studs or Norm's inserts and the updated crankcase reseal procedure/rear main seal. Then it will run forever. I know, I own one.
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Dec 19, 2013 03:11
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The Mazda FS-DE is the worst engine because it came in otherwise good cars and is total poo poo.
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Dec 19, 2013 03:35
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All of you are completely wrong. Every engine listed thus far has some crippling bad qualities but isn't a complete trainwreck right from the get-go. I give you the Rover KV6/Kia sedona 2.5 v6 engine. This abortion was already bad enough when it was made by rover. Not only was quality terrible and component failures common, it also had the following ingenious features: - An accessory belt that winds around the front engine mount on a FWD car, so you have to take that off to do the belt. - 3 timing belts. One big one on the front of the motor, two small ones on either head at the back. - Pertaining to the above, timing marks for the rear belts don't line up if you set the engine at TDC. They have no correlation to any specific engine position. You have to do the front belt at TDC, then time the exhaust cams to the inlet cams by rotating the engine an unspecified amount until two marks line up with eachother on the cam sprockets. Then repeat for the belt on the other cylinder head. Don't let those valves touch those pistons by the way, they're made of mozerella! - Inlet cam sprockets that were not keyed to the cams, just held by torque alone. I realise this is a common feature nowadays but back in the 90's it ended with disaster at every turn. - A flywheel that has a CPS sensor ring sticking out of it by about an inch and a half. This means that the FW 'cups' the torque converter so you can't take the trans out of the vehicle if the car is FWD, you have to take the engine+trans package out together. -Individual coils which, for some baffling reason, are still mounted in the valley of the V and have leads running to individual cylinders. Changing the rear plugs on a sedona involves lowering the subframe. But the grand-daddy issue of all, and specific to the kia variant of that engine: if you have an early one the bore sleeves are GUARANTEED to separate from the block and let coolantmania run wild on your engine. There is nothing you can do to stop it, and a replacement short block costs around 3 grand. Not including head gaskets etc, which themselves changed halfway through production and aren't mutually compatible! I hate these so much, if I were a billionaire I would offer a cash-for-clunkers scenario where I would pay double market value for every vehicle with this engine, then have them melted down to their component metals...which would then be fired into the sun. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 04:04
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Swiller of Beer posted:I've seen worse. All the Northstar needs is head studs or Norm's inserts and the updated crankcase reseal procedure/rear main seal. Then it will run forever. I know, I own one. They also made silly amounts of power for a mid 90s FWD engine. And drop easily into Fieros.  Slavvy posted:All of you are completely wrong. Every engine listed thus far has some crippling bad qualities but isn't a complete trainwreck right from the get-go. I give you the Rover KV6/Kia sedona 2.5 v6 engine. I was going to say thank gently caress that engine never made it to the US, but it looks like the 1st gen Sedona got them here. And the Rover Freelander, which is a horrible mechanical failure right off the showroom floor. From wikipedia: quote:The V6 engine is fitted with four overhead camshafts driven by synchronous tooth belts. It has a single, long, serpentine belt at the front driving the inlet cams and also the coolant pump. The exhaust cams are driven by short link belts driven from the ends of the inlet cams at the rear of the engine. The system was a joint development between Dayco (belt supplier) and Rover. The rear link belts do not incorporate any tensioning device. Belt tension is maintained by very careful control of belt length and the pulley pair is pre-tensioned during fitting. The front belt drive is tensioned by a spring-loaded tensioner pulley incorporating a hydraulic damping element. 
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 04:08
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Slavvy posted:I give you the Rover KV6 I was waiting for the true masters of engine failure to turn up in this discussion.
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Dec 19, 2013 04:10
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Slavvy posted:All of you are completely wrong. Every engine listed thus far has some crippling bad qualities but isn't a complete trainwreck right from the get-go. I give you the Rover KV6/Kia sedona 2.5 v6 engine. Holy poo poo
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Dec 19, 2013 04:38
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Slavvy posted:All of you are completely wrong. Every engine listed thus far has some crippling bad qualities but isn't a complete trainwreck right from the get-go. I give you the Rover KV6/Kia sedona 2.5 v6 engine. We have a winner!
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Dec 19, 2013 04:44
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Finally, all my uselessly specific knowledge has won me internet acclaim!
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Dec 19, 2013 04:53
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ultimateforce posted:The Mazda FS-DE is the worst engine because it came in otherwise good cars and is total poo poo. Tell me about it.  Drives me to loving drink.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:07
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nitrogen posted:
How the hell is that rear windshield intact? 
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Dec 19, 2013 05:13
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Wow there are like ZERO redeeming features with the Rover KV6. The horsepower and torque are definitely not very impressive for a 2500cc engine in the early 2000s. And they come high in the RPM range - perfect for a 4WD SUV! Was that engine at least smooth, or did it sound cool, ANYTHING? What about the GM 3.1 / 3.4 V6, the one that was in dozens of absolutely forgettable cars from the mid 90s onwards. I haven't heard a single good thing about that engine.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:30
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Slavvy posted:All of you are completely wrong. Every engine listed thus far has some crippling bad qualities but isn't a complete trainwreck right from the get-go. I give you the Rover KV6/Kia sedona 2.5 v6 engine. So this is the Antichrist of engines? It looks so...harmless.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:31
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Fucknag posted:Tell me about it. The FS-DE was a halfway decent engine, just wildly underbuilt for the turbo they stuck on it.  My Mazdaspeed Protege by camerazn, on Flickr
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Dec 19, 2013 05:35
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ultimateforce posted:The Mazda FS-DE is the worst engine because it came in otherwise good cars and is total poo poo. What?!?! VICS/VTCS is superior in every way to variable valve timing and being able to corner hard at high revs without spinning a bearing!!!
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Dec 19, 2013 05:39
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:So this is the Antichrist of engines? It looks so...harmless.  This will always haunt me in my dreams...
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Dec 19, 2013 05:40
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Polymerized Cum posted:Wow there are like ZERO redeeming features with the Rover KV6. The horsepower and torque are definitely not very impressive for a 2500cc engine in the early 2000s. And they come high in the RPM range - perfect for a 4WD SUV! Was that engine at least smooth, or did it sound cool, ANYTHING? It sounds like it always has a misfire. Also feels like it always has a misfire. Also idles with a constant vibration that literally everyone who owns one thinks wasn't there when it was new (it was!). Terrible gas mileage. Bonus points: usually mated to a FWD transmission that destroys the spider gears and causes you to veer uncontrollably to the right every time you try to turn.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:41
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Polymerized Cum posted:What about the GM 3.1 / 3.4 V6, the one that was in dozens of absolutely forgettable cars from the mid 90s onwards. I haven't heard a single good thing about that engine. They're invincible. They're terrible in comparison to other motors when well maintained, but they'll keep running forever even if not. I've seen a 3.1 Beretta driven on no coolant for weeks and a 3.4 Impala that went through a half dozen transmissions and otherwise entirely fell apart around the engine. They start bad, but you have to pretty much actively try to make them any worse.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:46
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Slavvy posted:It sounds like it always has a misfire. Also feels like it always has a misfire. Also idles with a constant vibration that literally everyone who owns one thinks wasn't there when it was new (it was!). Terrible gas mileage. Bonus points: usually mated to a FWD transmission that destroys the spider gears and causes you to veer uncontrollably to the right every time you try to turn. So this was basically British Leyland's engineering department realizing they would be job hunting soon, and playing some sort of elaborate mechanical joke on the motoring public?
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Dec 19, 2013 05:48
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Polymerized Cum posted:Wow there are like ZERO redeeming features with the Rover KV6. The horsepower and torque are definitely not very impressive for a 2500cc engine in the early 2000s. And they come high in the RPM range - perfect for a 4WD SUV! Was that engine at least smooth, or did it sound cool, ANYTHING? No, it was pretty much poo poo through and through. Polymerized Cum posted:What about the GM 3.1 / 3.4 V6, the one that was in dozens of absolutely forgettable cars from the mid 90s onwards. I haven't heard a single good thing about that engine. Good things about the 3100, personal anecdotes: Tolerated being flogged mercilessly on a daily basis, without an oil or filter change, for over a year/33k miles. Ok I actually can't think of any more, that engine sucked too. At least it was durable. E; shouldn't have left this tab open so long, I guess Terrible Robot fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 05:53
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I might add, the variable intake manifold solenoid is guaranteed to fail and cause a CEL. The official fix in the TSB? Just disconnect it, the engine computer can't tell the difference and you don't notice any difference driving the car. THEN WHY THE gently caress IS IT THERE, CUNTS?
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Dec 19, 2013 06:01
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Which was the Rover block that had metallurgy so porous that it would leak coolant through the water jackets and then out the side of the block? I could swear it was also offered in the Freelander and I thought it was the K-series but it doesn't seem to be (although that one is also a boiled turd). e: vvv Sweet Jesus.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:01
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That would be the one and the same KV6 my friend.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:02
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There must be some part of the engine that works OK. How is the... water pump? Oiling?
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Dec 19, 2013 06:05
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CommieGIR posted:
I want to know more about the gigantic gently caress-off novelty sized micrometer in the background of this photo. edit: The 3VZ-FE was fine after the headgaskets were replaced on Toyota's dime. With the redesigned gaskets and normal maintenance they could happily go 300,000 miles before the bottom end needed rehabbing. murphle fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 06:08
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murphle posted:I want to know more about the gigantic gently caress-off novelty sized micrometer in the background of this photo. I believe it's a prop for teaching kids how to use a micrometer
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Dec 19, 2013 06:23
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Seat Safety Switch posted:There must be some part of the engine that works OK. How is the... water pump? Oiling? Overshoot an oil change and everything is clogged thanks to the fiendishly complex yet utterly useless PCV system. Also the valve cover is in two pieces and the gaskets on the upper segment are quite literally large pieces of card with holes cut in them for the venting, if I could find a picture I would show you. Cooling is ordinary until the plastic thermostat housing cracks or, obviously, until the liners unhook from the block. It's worth adding that on the Grand Carnival/ Facelift Sedona kia released a version of it that fixed all of rover's problems. Aside from blowing head gaskets for no reason all the time. So there's that.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:26
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I didn't know anything about the Rover KV6 engine, so I decided to look it up. Even Google knows this engine is terrible.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:40
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wolrah posted:They're invincible. They're terrible in comparison to other motors when well maintained, but they'll keep running forever even if not. I've seen a 3.1 Beretta driven on no coolant for weeks and a 3.4 Impala that went through a half dozen transmissions and otherwise entirely fell apart around the engine. My Dad has a 1998 Lumina/3.1 as a commuter car. He has over 500,000 miles with only an alternator replacement. Torquey, indestructible, and 30+ highway mpg. Car is, of course, total poo poo. wallaka fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 06:47
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3100s have gasket issues but are ok once replaced with quality parts.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:48
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Senorita Stinkers posted:3100s have gasket issues but are ok once replaced with quality parts. Honest, replacing the Dex-Cool immediately remediates a ton of problems.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:51
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This 6.oh god no talk made me spend the last three hours or so watching the powerstrokehelp guy's videos. Everything about servicing that engine seems to be an unnecessarily arduous process. I know there's worse engines out there, but drat.
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Dec 19, 2013 07:04
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Interrupting engine chat to quote myself from about a year ago: As it turns out, not so much.  (hope this hasn't been posted already)
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Dec 19, 2013 07:25
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^ the first step to replacing the fan belt on a 6.0hno is: 1. remove cab Not really, but it's nearly that bad. The cab comes off for an awful lot of service procedures. murphle posted:I want to know more about the gigantic gently caress-off novelty sized micrometer in the background of this photo. The 3vz-fe is a completely different engine from the 3vz-e afaik. The 3vz-e is known for having the power of a 4cyl and the fuel consumption of a V8, also for eating head gaskets (they like to fail on the rear right cylinder because the loving exhaust wraps entirely around it, basically, and goes over the bellhousing, heatsoaking the crap out of an already marginal design) coking up the entire intake manifold courtesy of the EGR system and mostly flushing fuel down the drain because the injection system literally fires all the injectors in tandem. Not even kidding, they wired it up for two bank fires (which is still pretty shite for a 90s engine management system) and then got lazy and said gently caress it and simply crimped the leads for each bank into the same ferrule inside the wiring harness. I stared for a good 10 seconds when I saw that upon tearing into a harness preparing for a splice/swap job. It's like they just gave up. It's the worst of TBI and the worst of 80s EFI and the worst of MPFI all wadded up into one horrible EMS design. Oh yeah the air flow meter setup is retarded, it's a flappy-door AFM all the way till like 1995 (welcome to the 80s, guys) and they run horribly and the only way to adjust the AFR is to cut the top off the AFM, fudge some adjustments till it runs right, then RTV the top back on. edit: nearly forgot, the center upper timing belt pulley GOES AROUND THE WATER NECK FOR THE UPPER RADIATOR HOSE. Like, the bearing wraps entirely around it and then the pulley wraps around that. What the loving poo poo, Toyota? If you break one of the (four, IIRC, might be two studs) tiny bolts holding the neck onto the LIM (again, IIRC) you get to tear your timing set apart to replace all that crap. And it's not like tiny steel bolts ever corrode into cast aluminum parts when exposed to coolant, nope! Never. kastein fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 07:27
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And this is why early hilux surfs and prados(4runners to the rest of the world) fill me with implacable rage. You're absolutely correct in saying the FE is a completely different engine, literally only the block is the same and everything else terrible about it was fixed.
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Dec 19, 2013 07:30
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A fellow goon and I are hoping to solve the 3VZE problem once and for all this summer, but it depends on us having enough time to work on the project. Not posting anything about what the solution is until it's done and either works well or backfires straight into our faces 
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Dec 19, 2013 07:32
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Polymerized Cum posted:
I had a Beretta with that engine. The car was a complete piece of poo poo (including the trunk catching on fire twice from a flaky exhaust system), but it always started no matter how cold it got in Wisconsin. I got rid of it after the second trunk fire and all the brake lines decided to self destruct simultaneously. Drove to the junkyard using automatic tranny downshifting to slow and the emergency brake. Good loving riddance.
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Dec 19, 2013 07:39
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kastein posted:A fellow goon and I are hoping to solve the 3VZE problem once and for all this summer, but it depends on us having enough time to work on the project. Not posting anything about what the solution is until it's done and either works well or backfires straight into our faces If the solution involves thermite then I hope the video is more impressive this time
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Dec 19, 2013 07:48
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Horrible engineering failure? The entire building has settled around that hump which used to be the footings for an old highway overpass. Could this have been dealt with before constructing the site ~4 years ago? 
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Dec 19, 2013 10:28
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murphle posted:I want to know more about the gigantic gently caress-off novelty sized micrometer in the background of this photo. The Germans are masters of miniaturization.
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Dec 19, 2013 10:32
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