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Soylent Pudding posted:Tell Aaron about Barkoff, tell him in more detail about the blue smoke bodies, do not threaten to leave the city if we don't get answers I really want to speak with Azz but that's something we do after we get the situation settled and talk with Aaron, Tudiya, Ishmal, etc. Also Aaron seems to be a good mentor and is poised to rise in the world, let's stick close to him in the future. This. Don't leave the drat city
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Dec 31, 2013 01:08
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One more thing: Tell the Mighty Men at the gate about Barkof before we go back to the temple. If he's still around, he might try to trick them into turning the battle in Bareen's favor.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:09
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1. A 2. E 3. L
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Dec 31, 2013 01:16
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I vote nothing that leads to us leaving Also yey  Danal is okay.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:17
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The Votes I don't really know how to get rid of the black bars, so sorry about that. Unless mentioned otherwise in the notes section, all votes for I are in favor of plan Tsyni. I didn't count votes on whether to tell Aaron about Barkof's act of treason, or votes about leaving Zepath.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:24
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VOTING PLAN NOT RUNNING AWAY
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Dec 31, 2013 01:27
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In light of Diog's most recent post, I'd like to amend my vote: 1 C 2 E: It's always good to prepared, and running away wouldn't serve us as well as I believed it might! 3 P and Q And make sure to Hug Danal and tell him everything will be okay! Poor guy must have been worried sick!
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Dec 31, 2013 01:44
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In light of the rails that were put in place, changing my vote to going to find our slaves and beating them to get out our frustration and confusion.
Mexican Deathgasm fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 02:02
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Vote for general not-leaving
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Dec 31, 2013 02:25
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Gantolandon posted:You're right, they are clearly not answering, so let me think about the people outside Zepath who could know: Kadmonim. What's their story. Carine. What's theirs? Unless of course only the white saviors have all the answers so we should stick with them and thank them kindly for whatever scraps of info they deign to hand out?
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Dec 31, 2013 02:50
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Lanky Coconut Tree posted:Kadmonim. What's their story. Carine. What's theirs? We are 17. We can at least finish high school before we run off on our own. Teenage runaways suck.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:55
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Lanky Coconut Tree posted:Kadmonim. What's their story. Carine. What's theirs? Trecking, alone, now, across most of the known world doesn't seem like a great idea though. World's full of monsters and poo poo.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:57
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I was under the impression that almost all of the 'Plan Run Aways' were more along the lines of 'don't actually run away, but just go see Azz or a chat in the near future', seeing as the edge of his domain is, at max, only a fairly safe 5 hour walk away (or was that just mine?, my plan was kind of a spite leave, but I've changed my mind now) Pretty sure he'll want to talk too, seeing as he'll want to know what happened as well (a story we can trade for answers, and one he might get a kick out of dependant on how full of it Bareen actually was) I don't really know where the 'pack our poo poo as if we're going on a months long patrol' bit came from though. Anyway, Voting to not immediately leave, reassure them that we're not about to and tell Aaron about that trapdoor
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Dec 31, 2013 02:57
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Even if we try we will obviously be caught. Ishamal is almost certainly following us, Tudiya probably won't have that much problem finding us either, and we'll just be dragged back. If we must, it is best to do so once we are hunting with Aaron and somewhere near a desolate wasteland. eta: Maxhush, Azzazel's domain is two weeks away, not five hours.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:57
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maxhush posted:I was under the impression that almost all of the 'Plan Run Aways' were more along the lines of 'don't actually run away, but just go see Azz or a chat in the near future', seeing as the edge of his domain is, at max, only a fairly safe 5 hour walk away (or was that just mine?, my plan was kind of a spite leave, but I've changed my mind now) The edge of his domain was a full week away. Going to visit Azz is a two week trip.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:00
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Angela Christine posted:The edge of his domain was a full week away. Going to visit Azz is a two week trip. And that's not counting the time we'd actually be there. Time might decide to flow differently in Azz's crib, plus Ishamal warned us that we might end up inadvertently losing years there just because Azz might lose track of time/forget that we're mortal whilst partying with us.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:10
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CFK You goons consistently vote for the lamest, safest, most comfortable poo poo. When Dio finally injects some excitement into the narrative, you'd rather futz around then go watch an epic battle or take a chance for adventure and answers. Why would anyone reveal anything to us after this? With Bareen gone, there is no-one left that might hurt their ability to keep us in the dark. Even our Mom who should love us the most wont tell us poo poo in light of all the circumstances. Yeah Bareen probably fed us a load of bull, but I'm sure there were nuggets of truth in there too - things we can verify on our own. And there are other places we might seek knowledge. The Kadmonim, Baitel, Azz, gently caress we can leave and still probably count on Ishamal to show up, we could probably even entreat other Melachim. We survived a month on our own when we didn't know poo poo about surviving, and since then have been trained in survival, if not how to solo monsters. I think we could get along fine. I don't know why Dio is putting the pressure on to stay in Zepath, but frankly it kind of bugs me because it totally curbed the votes for actually doing something interesting and reverted everyone to their default milquetoast safe mode.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:19
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I'm glad Dio provided the pressure to stay in Zepath because too many goons are throwing a temper tantrum and wants to abandon our power base and established life here in the city so we can trek around underleveled in the wilderness with no conceivable way to actually achieve any of our goals. Goon ADD strikes again.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:26
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All ya'all are super reactionary and have the attention span of a magfly.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:28
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:All ya'all are goons. Fixed that for you.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:32
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Soylent Pudding posted:I'm glad Dio provided the pressure to stay in Zepath because too many goons are throwing a temper tantrum and wants to abandon our power base and established life here in the city so we can trek around underleveled in the wilderness with no conceivable way to actually achieve any of our goals. Goon ADD strikes again. I agree, players should only have input if it doesn't deviate too far from the preferences of the author.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:37
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D F Q Tournament was a trap, not running away (yet), getting Aaron and Danal to help get into the room, and maybe the floor.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:38
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:I agree, players should only have input if it doesn't deviate too far from the preferences of the author. That's not what I said and you know it. Honestly I feel we have a core group of players who disliked ending up in Zeptha and thus have decided rather than go along with what the game dealt us they willfully missinterpret things to justify leaving. I believe that's whats going on here and in my opinion a good DM hints to players when they are making sufficiently important unwarranted assumptions about the game world.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:41
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Soylent Pudding posted:That's not what I said and you know it. Honestly I feel we have a core group of players who disliked ending up in Zeptha and thus have decided rather than go along with what the game dealt us they willfully missinterpret things to justify leaving. I believe that's whats going on here and in my opinion a good DM hints to players when they are making sufficiently important unwarranted assumptions about the game world. That's pretty much exactly what you said, and then you just said it again. Just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they're "willfully misinterpreting" anything.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:45
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I don't think he really provided any pressure, simply stated things we already knew and asked if we were really sure, since doing so has the potential to drastically change the game. Leaving like this wouldn't really have the option of going back, at least not going back and having the same status. He essentially acted as our Sebek.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:47
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SerSpook posted:I don't think he really provided any pressure, simply stated things we already knew and asked if we were really sure, since doing so has the potential to drastically change the game. Leaving like this wouldn't really have the option of going back, at least not going back and having the same status. As well as leaving out other potential sources of information, by apparently stacking the deck for Zepath. As if he hasn't planned out the entire world and the relationships that we can't see. I refuse to believe that such a competent narrator and world-builder would fail to throw us leads if we decided to take the story out of Zepath. Nope, sorry guys, the rest of it will be wandering around debating about what cactus to try eating until we finally die from squandered mightiness. Please. Pudding, a good DM makes hints, but a better DM will roll with whatever the players do, regardless if his hints are heeded or not. There are valid motivations for leaving, and it's hardly an unknown story archetype for someone to run away to seek the truth. To suggest that everyone voting to leave is just doing so out of some kind of grudge is really petty.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:52
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SerSpook posted:I don't think he really provided any pressure, simply stated things we already knew and asked if we were really sure, since doing so has the potential to drastically change the game. Leaving like this wouldn't really have the option of going back, at least not going back and having the same status. I don't think the game master of a game can provide unbiased advice, especially when suggesting that a large portion of the players are just "being spiteful". It was a pretty obvious allusion to the "correct" course of action. I'm confused as to why leaving the city was even presented as a choice, if it actually wasn't one.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:52
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Diog has allowed for a lot of freedom of movement. We've flown cities, almost given a goat a hand job, and ate a demon and then spat it out into the armor of a god. If we were playing an RPG I'd treat this as him sharing the results of a hidden "common sense" roll.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:58
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maxhush posted:I was under the impression that almost all of the 'Plan Run Aways' were more along the lines of 'don't actually run away, but just go see Azz or a chat in the near future', seeing as the edge of his domain is, at max, only a fairly safe 5 hour walk away (or was that just mine?, my plan was kind of a spite leave, but I've changed my mind now) This is what I thought too. I had thought that my leave the city vote was to force Ishamal's hand to talk to us and explain some of his actions if he was actually watching us and to see what Azz might offer us in the way of answers, not this extreme drop everything and burn all bridges approach that everyone seems to think.
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Dec 31, 2013 03:58
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RandomPauI posted:Diog has allowed for a lot of freedom of movement. We've flown cities, almost given a goat a hand job, and ate a demon and then spat it out into the armor of a god. If we were playing an RPG I'd treat this as him sharing the results of a hidden "common sense" roll. If your GM is making "hidden common sense rolls" for his players in order to keep them on the rails he has constructed, it seems like a good time to get a new GM. If we're going to be told not to make certain choices, they probably shouldn't be presented as choices.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:00
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Crudus posted:We survived a month on our own when we didn't know poo poo about surviving, and since then have been trained in survival, if not how to solo monsters. I think we could get along fine. I would like to comment on this point if I could. You have learned wilderness survival skills, a it of stealth stealth, improved your archery and learned a lot about hunting. You could indeed hunt the wilds and feed even your ridiculous appetite, if you stuck relatively close to a city, that won't be a problem, non Mighty hunters live in the city and do a fine trade. And you can be just as certain you will still be flattened by the first minotaur or similar beast you stumble across if you get unlucky or go to far. Aaron was between you and danger during your hunts. Mexican Deathgasm posted:I agree, players should only have input if it doesn't deviate too far from the preferences of the author. The author has no preference, at all, do as you will, really. I mean that. We are not on a rail. If you leave Zepath, your adventure shall continue(as long as you live) and a whole world awaits you. Diogines fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 04:01
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:I don't think the game master of a game can provide unbiased advice, especially when suggesting that a large portion of the players are just "being spiteful". It was a pretty obvious allusion to the "correct" course of action. I'm confused as to why leaving the city was even presented as a choice, if it actually wasn't one. Leaving the city is absolutely a choice though. In Madgod there were several times where we did things that, really, were strongly hinted against. The two most notable are spitting out Kadai and holding the gate. We got the results of each of those things, even if they were not necessarily the things Diogines expected. A similar completely unexpected thing was spitting up Kranzelbarti in Koa's armor, or even the entire idea to float the city to Cimbra. He's pretty clearly willing to go with completely unexpected turns of events. In this game, he asked for clarification on whether or not Tsyni wanted us to leave the city or not, and explained that the game's dynamic would change. It turned out most people voting for Tsyni's plan didn't even interpret it as leaving the city. And where did he suggest that a lot of players were just being spiteful?
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Dec 31, 2013 04:01
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I don't think anyone was being spiteful. I was reminding people information they had. It turns out, as I said I thought I might be, that I had misinterpreted what Tsyni wanted to do. The game has no ultimate plan. If you want to walk off and leave Zepath you can. Consider the fact that your decision to step between Tudiya and Shushem in Athar... Shushem floored several Mighty Men, burned through Tudiyas metal armor and survived multiple spear strikes without appearing troubled or even bleeding, only dying when his head was cut off. How much more would he have unleashed if his son was not in the line of fire? The sky didn't gradually grow storm clouds. One moment it was perfectly clear and the next moment the sky was simply BLACK. That speaks of... a lot of power, be it Shushem or something else. Your arrival in Zepath was by no means, at all, guaranteed, it is entirely possible you might never have ended up in the city. As an example of how the game is not on the rails. You befriended Danal, a spoiled brat and changed his attitude, he may have ended up a spoiled royal brat of the worst sort, but for your intervention. I don't want to spoil every possible outcome in the game, but events, major and minor, are not planned. Every vote and every time increment, we advance the whole game world according to how your actions effected them. Diogines fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 04:10
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I really do wonder what would have happened if we had gone the patricide route early in the game, when Shushem wanted us to cut Jalitha's hair. Or at least tried to do so. eta: Or killed Jalitha, another way we'd have stayed in Athar if we'd made that choice early on.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:11
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OrangeOrbit posted:This is what I thought too. I had thought that my leave the city vote was to force Ishamal's hand to talk to us and explain some of his actions if he was actually watching us and to see what Azz might offer us in the way of answers, not this extreme drop everything and burn all bridges approach that everyone seems to think. Even if we succeed in leaving to talk with Azz, that is very close to burning all bridges. Yes we would return after two weeks, but no one would trust us anymore. If you want to ask Azz for answers, there are better times and ways to do this than running away right after almost being kidnapped without giving our family a good reason. There is also nothing to gain by leaving now, when we would be leaving for Baitel in two years or so either way ( which might be only three or four updates if not too much happens between now and then). Mexican Deathgasm posted:If your GM is making "hidden common sense rolls" for his players in order to keep them on the rails he has constructed, it seems like a good time to get a new GM. If we're going to be told not to make certain choices, they probably shouldn't be presented as choices. The only way in which it is not a choice is in that we would almost certainly not make it very far before someone caught us. Diog's post might have been slightly out of line though. It's difficult to say. I don't think it was really meant to sway opinions so much as to ask if we were sure about what we were doing. I also don't think anyone really changed their opinion.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:12
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And now Diogenes is a bad DM because he reminds us of all the reasons why from the POV of our character running off into the wilderness is likely to end in a game over. This isn't Dio running the game on rails, it's him (her?) making sure the player is aware of the likely consequences of the decision. Leaving the city is a choice, it's also a choice likely to get us killed or at best ruin what a good chunk of the players have spent the game building. That's not railroading, that's rule consistency. As a player and non-hardcore rpger I appreciate when the DM occasionally asks "are you sure?" Besides, it's not like Dio hasn't to one degree or another presented the "this vote could have consequences, are you sure?" question plenty of times already.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:14
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SerSpook posted:I really do wonder what would have happened if we had gone the patricide route early in the game, when Shushem wanted us to cut Jalitha's hair. Or at least tried to do so. If you slit Jalithas throat, she would be dead. You would of had no one to teach you about El, or the language of the cities or Ur and if and when Tudiya ever came, and who knows if he would have, he would have been a strange invader and probably a servant of those demons which are vaguely known to live far to the north of Athar. And without his (son?) in the line of fire, perhaps Shushem, might of smoked Tudiya and Friends, only remembered by you as strange visitors and invaders? They sure had some neat armor and weapons though. Diogines fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 04:15
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Wow, a lot of posts sure have happened. Gonna need to take a moment to properly process everything. I'd just like to note right now, though, that if everybody votes for dancing on the edge of a cliff in a rainstorm and the GM gently reminds us that this will probably kill us, that seems less a case of being "on rails" as it does "pointing out the likely consequences of your actions which may not have been considered." Diog's own opinions on where the plot should go aside, there really are significant consequences to trying to leave the city now. It isn't really possible to ignore the fact that we'd be leaving quite a few people behind, that we'd be throwing our previous stakes in the city into the wind, that we'd be worrying or pissing off quite a few very important folks, and that our own ability to survive a journey through monster-infested wilderness to places we've never been is a little bit shaky. Is it really being "on rails" to remind us of these facts, since we seem to have forgotten them? Would the majority of goons really thank Diog for allowing to run away without informing us of the consequences which Enkidel would probably be aware of, only to have those consequences come down on us like a ton of bricks later? Particularly given that from what I could see when skimming the posts, most folks weren't actually in favor of burning it all down and running off, anyways, which meant that if the vote had closed before Diog posted, there would have essentially been a decision only a few people wanted and consequences that only a few people foresaw. Is this really preferable to the DM stepping in to remind us of the facts of the case? And that's leaving aside the fact that we CAN run off if we really want to. Develop a powerful and coherent argument for why the risk/reward of running off seems worthwhile, bring the goons onside, come up with a cunning plan to evade anybody coming after us, and boom - we've run off. We'll be facing new challenges, with a different cast of characters and with fewer resources than we had in Zepath, but it's entirely doable. If there are rails here, they exist in the minds of the goons, not the GM, and it seems to me that if you really want to leave the city, it's more important to sway goons to your side than it is to castigate the GM for providing information that weakened your prior arguments. tl;dr - Is the following a GM on rails or not? "Uh, guys, do you really want to stab the king in the bollocks after he gave you your reward money? I remind you that you're in the middle of the capital, surrounded by his best soldiers and his court magician, and I'm not really sure why exactly you want to stab him anyways. So really, are you SURE you want to stab him in the bollocks? Because you can if you want, but you're going to have a hell of a fight on your hands and be hated by everyone in the capital."
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Dec 31, 2013 04:17
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I am going to try to start on the update, closing voting for now.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:19
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From IRC" posted:19:27:35 | <<SerSpook> i am kind of interested in the implication that shushem could take tudiya
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Dec 31, 2013 04:29
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