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1 J: Let El decide their fate! 2 N: He fought valiantly alongside us! 3 P: As did they. Sort of. 4 S: Nah.
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Jan 7, 2014 06:37
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Angela Christine posted:Why are so many people voting for exile? Because slavery to a bunch of revenge-hungry jackasses by the most violent and probably resentful of the Bareenites is unlikely to work out very well, and while exile is likely death, there's still a chance of survival. Mind you, I don't think it's a very good idea for any number of reasons, but if we REALLY feel like being merciful we might volunteer to escort the women and children at least in their exile to the nearest city that might take them in. Call it penance of a sort for having triggered this whole mess to begin with. That said, the political fallout from volunteering so is likely to be painful, and I'm not really sure how many women and children went around killing people. Diog, to be clear - if someone DOESN'T repent and ask for mercy but didn't kill anybody, what's their fate here? Exile/slavery/death alongside the killers, or just burning at the stake or whatnot? Also, voting! 2. N. …duh? 3. P. Well, what was the point of rescuing them otherwise? 4. R. This was trickier. I'd love a chance to speak with the dude first to find out his thoughts on the whole matter - maybe he'd be willing to make things easy and swear to El. But on the whole I think I'd rather not take the chance - as much as possible, do not destroy. If he gets out of this one alive we're going to need to sit down and have a good long chat with him. Tomn fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 06:49
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If you don't want to kill them, at least have the decency to enslave them rather than sending them out to starve. (Besides, if we exile them the foreign visitors will probably just kill them anyway, once they are clear of the city.)
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Sogol posted:Also, YAY! We once again succeeded in not killing Snarls! I'm probably most emotionally invested in Snarls out of anyone in this game.
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Jan 7, 2014 06:49
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Bold your votes, thanks! Primary Vote count Fate of the Heretics I- - - - - - - - - - - - 11 J- - - - - - - - - - - - 24 D- - - - - - - - - - - - 2 K- - - - - - - - - - - - 5 Deadly Ham Sandwich- - - 2 maxhush- - - - - - - - - 1 the_steve- - - - - - - - 1 HBar - - - - - - - - - - 1 Imperialist Dog- - - - - 1 Outrail- - - - - - - - - 1 Paebel Bro- - - - - - - - - - - Unanimous! (48) No - - - - - - - - - - - Kanah and Elath Bros - - - - - - - - - - Unanimous! (48) Noes - - - - - - - - - - Gaddiel Point- - - - - - - - - - 5 Fuggem - - - - - - - - - 50 hollylolly - - - - - - - J, N, P, R Althair- - - - - - - - - J, N, P, R FoxTerrier - - - - - - - I, N, P, S dyzzy- - - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S my dad - - - - - - - - - J, N, P Kristopher - - - - - - - I, N, P, S RandomPauI - - - - - - - J, N, P Deadly Ham Sandwich- - - M, N, P, S Theglavwen - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Angela Christine - - - - I, N, P, S Arkanomen- - - - - - - - Please restate in more modern English. Right now it seems to me like J with a fine. Also use letters. Pladdicus- - - - - - - - I, N, P, S Eryxias- - - - - - - - - J, N, P, R Absum- - - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S SerSpook - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Numeron- - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S There Bias Two - - - - - J, N, P, S JT Jag - - - - - - - - - I, N, P, S Walrusmaster - - - - - - J, N, P, S Speleothing- - - - - - - D, N, P, S maxhush- - - - - - - - - M, N, P, S Jewcoon- - - - - - - - - I, N, P, S Task Manager - - - - - - I, N, P, S Grognan- - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Janky Coconut Tree - - - K, N, P, S ShotgunWillie- - - - - - J, N, P, S the_steve- - - - - - - - M, N, P, S Neraren- - - - - - - - - I, N, P, S Imperialist Dog- - - - - D, N, P, S Mr. Wednesday- - - - - - I, N, P, S Soylent Pudding- - - - - K, N, P, S Sogol- - - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Volmarias- - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Vavrek - - - - - - - - - DHS+ LLSix- - - - - - - - - - K, N, P, S DCBomB - - - - - - - - - J, N, P jng2058- - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Dammerung- - - - - - - - J, N, P, S Tomn - - - - - - - - - - J, N, P, R HBar - - - - - - - - - - M, N, P, S Slaan- - - - - - - - - - K, N, P, S Skanky Burns - - - - - - I, N, P, S Imperialist Dog- - - - - M, N, P, S HiHo ChiRho- - - - - - - J, N, P, S Rahul- - - - - - - - - - J, N, P, S paragon1 - - - - - - - - J, N, P, R Outrail- - - - - - - - - M, N, P, S Zybourne Clock - - - - - K, N, P, S Save Target As - - - - - J, N, P, S Watuhboy - - - - - - - - I, N, P, S Additional voting text Theglavwen, J: "The blame for those caught in Bareen's lies does not fall solely upon them. Where is the justice in comdemning them to death, when they but followed example? Should they have expected death when, to their eyes, Bareen herself was allowed to live and preach within the city? When even Mighty Men were seen at her temple? These events have been tragic, but the blame falls nearly as heavily upon our shoulders as theirs, we who, by our example, did not condemn and so endorsed. Should we call for our own deaths as well, or should we give them mercy?" maxhush, M: Mercy for those who repent. Exile for those who took life but repent, and slavery for their families if they were Bareenites too- But they're allowed to come back as freemen if they bring an offering to El's temple that he finds sufficiently pleasing (Have to resit their Manhood test and score an A+ pretty much, no lovely wolf skulls) and unslave their families. Unrepentance = Death Deadly Ham Sandwich, M: Mercy for them all, talk about Melachim you saw. the_steve, M: Mercy for any who will repent and swear to El, except for those who took a life, they can choose: Exile or Slavery. Sogol, J: the Demon Witch Bareen was the real villain here, corrupting even some of the best among us. Our King and the mighty King of Tanaach have served her the ultimate punishment and a well deserved end for her sorcerous bewitching of good and innocent people in Zepath. Many otherwise innocent friends and people of Zepath have died to her traitorous ways, which are now justly served and at an end. She turned us against one another. Let us not continue her ways by now killing one another as she would have wanted. Recount the battle and the burning of the Demon Witch Bareen somewhat to re-focus the mob. Make her dead and punished in this moment. Slake the blood thirst of the mob with this if possible. This was a great evil and betrayal of all the people of Zepath, even those that stand rightly accused before us. It is a grievous hurt from which we must recover and heal. Then reference Ishamal's words as those of an elder and that we would heed them as words from a wiser source than us and a first step to healing this horrible betrayal and villainy by the Demon Witch Bareen. HBar, M: Death to those who took a life against El. Exile to those who do not repent. Exile to those who fought against El, but took no lives. Slavery to men who repent, but did not fight for El. Mercy to women and children who repent. Mercy to men who fought for El. Imperialist Dog, M: You know how Rome became an empire? Slaves. All the Bareenites are slaves in the service of Zepath now. The wall will be rebuilt. Homes will be restored. Bridges with conveniently placed taverns will be constructed! Aqueducts which are just bridges for water anyway will be built to the mountains! Forges will sing as slaves make blades for El as eternal penance, or the next Jubilee year, whichever comes first! And all shall have their forehead branded with the mark of El (does El have a holy symbol?) so none forget their heresy! Except those who were proved to kill, death to those fuckers. And children under age ten, no branding for them. Not their fault their parents were blasphemers. Plus as a slave they'll learn a trade! Outrail, M: Death to those who took a life against El. Slavery to those who do not repent. Exile to those who fought against El, but took no lives. Mercy to men who repent, but did not fight for El. Mercy to women and children who repent. Mercy to men who fought for El. DCBomB fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 07:05
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Wait a minute, all those S votes are to NOT recognize Gaddiel, right?
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Jan 7, 2014 07:17
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jng2058 posted:Wait a minute, all those S votes are to NOT recognize Gaddiel, right? Right.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:19
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Right >.>
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Jan 7, 2014 07:34
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We really are getting ready to turn all those going into exile (which is just the combatants?) into a potential Barkof army. It is likely the case that who will have to deal with this first, either as a fighting force or dying exiles, is Aron and Enkidel. I am not saying don't do it. I am saying be aware of what we are doing. Of course maybe this is how new cities are formed and they will make a go of it down river.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:37
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We'd be talking around <50 men (however many actually killed a person) + Barkof without immediate access to equipment, who would first have to survive the wilderness. Might as well just say we should be worried about Barkof.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:41
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Come to think of it, how many El loyalists died during the fight, anyways? It was mainly the adventurers plus a few random dudes who turned on Bareen, wasn't it? Everyone else was facing the Mighty Men. It'd probably be tricky to break even double digit killers here. Edit: And at least one guy, I think, killed a Mighty Man, but not how he intended - Bareen did something to make the Mighty Man trip onto his sword. Edit Edit: After thinking it over, I think Sogol's got an interesting idea, so let's make this explicit. Changing my vote to J+M: Mercy for the repentant and exile for the killers, but all should labor to fix the damage done to the city first. This would not be permanent slavery, just a temporary act of contrition. Bloodthirstiness or not, something like this might soothe ruffled feathers and convince people to re-accept the rebels. Appeals to a rough sense of justice, too - "You made this mess, so help clean it up." Tomn fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 07:44
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    Death to those who took a life against El. Exile to those who do not repent. Exile to those who fought against El, but took no lives. Slavery to men who repent, but did not fight for El. Mercy to women and children who repent. Mercy to men who fought for El.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:13
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Count up to date up to this point.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:21
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KNPS Why would you send a bunch of workers out of the city when have already lost a large number of them in the fighting. Enslave the bastards (we will probably get a couple ourselves for our budding empire!) and use them to rebuild the city and make us tons of cash. Capitalism: Practical Asherah Worship
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Jan 7, 2014 08:29
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INPS
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Jan 7, 2014 09:09
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M N P S You know how Rome became an empire? Slaves. All the Bareenites are slaves in the service of Zepath now. The wall will be rebuilt. Homes will be restored. Bridges with conveniently placed taverns will be constructed! Aqueducts which are just bridges for water anyway will be built to the mountains! Forges will sing as slaves make blades for El as eternal penance, or the next Jubilee year, whichever comes first! And all shall have their forehead branded with the mark of El (does El have a holy symbol?) so none forget their heresy! Except those who were proved to kill, death to those fuckers. And children under age ten, no branding for them. Not their fault their parents were blasphemers. Plus as a slave they'll learn a trade!
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Jan 7, 2014 09:48
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Tomn posted:Because slavery to a bunch of revenge-hungry jackasses by the most violent and probably resentful of the Bareenites is unlikely to work out very well, and while exile is likely death, there's still a chance of survival. Enslave them, set them to work building public improvements. Highways, viaducts, new walls. And give every family who has lost someone a single slave to make up for loss of productivity. If they want to be idiots and kill their own slaves, that's their business with El. Bet you a good chunk of them will suddenly discover mercy is better than killing people on your own.
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Jan 7, 2014 09:55
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Dibs on the foreskins of the executed!
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Jan 7, 2014 10:26
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Magnus Venator posted:Dibs on the foreskins of the executed! The heretics are the real monsters!
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Jan 7, 2014 10:33
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gently caress, double post, sorry.
Imperialist Dog fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 10:42
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J N P S
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Jan 7, 2014 10:53
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Might as well hop on the JNPS bandwagon. I think people are forgetting though that we're not actually the ones pronouncing judgement here though. Tudiya is listening to everyone opinions, but is going to make his own decision. Our opinion is likely to only have a minor effect at best on what happens to them. I think this vote is really more about us, and seeing how we feel about this mess. In that regard I think it's probably best to keep what Ishamel said in mind regarding El's mercy. Remember, we know for a fact that there are beings up there keeping an eye on us, too.
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Jan 7, 2014 12:14
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JNPR
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Jan 7, 2014 13:17
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HBar posted:
Oooh look at the pretty colours I like this vote except change to Mercy to men who repent, but did not fight for El. And Slavery to those who do not repent because the people won't hear it any other way, and I'd like to keep them in the city. (As a non El believer I don't think they did anything wrong). Chances are they're slaves anyway. They thought they were worshiping the Mech, not some demons. Outrail fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 13:34
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KNPS Exile is essentially the same thing as a death sentence, except it doesn't satisfy the crowd's lust for blood. It's like roasting your sister's pet rabbit and then dumping your meal in the trash in front of a hungry man, in that you're likely going to displease both your sister and the hungry man. If we can't please the crowd with blood, we might be able to please them with free labor.
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Jan 7, 2014 14:11
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Additional information, if relevant to your decision: The traditional method for execution is stoning. There are exceptions, but this is usually how it is done.
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Jan 7, 2014 14:16
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Do you think people would react badly if we asked to change the execution method from stoning to 'eat their beating hearts from their chests and throw the rest into the waters for Asherah?' Because we should totally do this.
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Jan 7, 2014 14:30
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How about amnesty for anyone with information about the true identity of our bio-Dad?
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Jan 7, 2014 14:39
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Slaan posted:Do you think people would react badly if we asked to change the execution method from stoning to 'eat their beating hearts from their chests and throw the rest into the waters for Asherah?' I'm liking the 'chum the waters' idea but we're not ready to eat a whole godfish yet.
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Jan 7, 2014 14:43
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HBar posted:
I agree. This is My Vote
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Jan 7, 2014 15:18
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Sogol posted:How about amnesty for anyone with information about the true identity of our bio-Dad? And how would you know if they're lying or not? I doubt any of the heretics actually know, save perhaps for Bareen and Barkof,* who are both gone. I don't doubt they'd lie their asses off, though. *Assuming Bareen isn't a complete liar. Sadly, I think there was something guiding her, but it wasn't Xuriel as we know him. Remember those statues of the Melachim back at Bareen's temple? Did any of them Look like anyone we've seen in our visions? Out of sheer curiosity, did any of them look like the figurine we were offered during our manhood trial?
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Jan 7, 2014 15:28
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Voting J N P S
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Jan 7, 2014 15:33
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I, N, P, S
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Jan 7, 2014 15:36
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UppaTree posted:Remember those statues of the Melachim back at Bareen's temple? Did any of them Look like anyone we've seen in our visions? The largest, man sized statues were clearly the Ophanim, whose names you know from the Old Tales, Smattas was the largest of them. Of the hundreds of small clay figures, you might guess at their names from their appearance but it is tough to say. The gold statue from the possible items at the manhood trial was not a names Melachim, not one you recognized anyway, probably a generic one. You only saw a handful of figures in your... visions. None of them had any obvious similarity to the statues.
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Jan 7, 2014 16:59
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We should ask Ish if anything was removed from the temple before it was destroyed. Surely he wouldn't destroy statues of Melachim. edit: I knew something was bugging me. Diogines posted:
This sounds like it could have been a sort of prayer to a Melachim. Which is of course a big no no. Outrail fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 17:03
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Outrail posted:This sounds like it could have been a sort of prayer to a Melachim. Which is of course a big no no. Or it was "EL, HELP! If possible, send Smattas!"
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Jan 7, 2014 17:11
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Which is a common form of prayer. As to the statues you saw in the temple, he most surely would destroy them. Making an image of El is forbidden. Making one of the Melachim is not, though worshiping them surely is. For your manhood trial you had the option of taking a small, golden Melachim statue along. It would have made a fine offering, your trial would have also been much harsher without any survival tools, such as Snarls, your selection. Anything involved in heretical worship is tainted. It is entirely possible Ishamal or one of the Mighty Men smashed them all.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:16
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Hey, Diog, in case it was missed... How many El loyalists died during the fight, anyways? Diog, to be clear - if someone DOESN'T repent and ask for mercy but didn't kill anybody, what's their fate here? Exile/slavery/death alongside the killers, or just burning at the stake or whatnot?
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Jan 7, 2014 17:42
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Tomn posted:Hey, Diog, in case it was missed... Five people were crushed from debris from the battle. Many, many more of Bareen's followers died. This is not a numbers game to the men of Zepath. That crazy witch broke the peace of their city, abducted the kings sons and murdered several people. To say nothing of the embarrassment to foreign guests or harm done to two kings. quote:Diog, to be clear - if someone DOESN'T repent and ask for mercy but didn't kill anybody, what's their fate here? Exile/slavery/death alongside the killers, or just burning at the stake or whatnot? Diogines fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 18:53
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Diogines posted:According to who? Ishamal? He said he is silent as to those persons and has nothing to say. Everyone else but Zebanetha said to kill such persons, Zebanetha said he would "leave them to El."
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Jan 7, 2014 18:59
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On the other hand, not repenting is effectively spitting in the face of everyone involved, including Tudya, which I don't think he can afford to let them get away with.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:00
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