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It just took a brief trip to Best Buy to confirm that there's no way in hell I'll replace my ST50 with anything other than a VT60. They had an ST60 hanging right beside Samsung's flagship F8000 LED backlit LCD and there was simply no contest in picture quality. I realize that the Samung was in torch mode and could likely be dialed back in quite a bit, but there's no fixing the viewing angle shifts. At any rate, it certainly wasn't worth the $2k price. In isolation it looked pretty decent, but once I was able to do an A/B comparison it was all over. Assuming Amex comes through with the warranty claim before VT60 stock is all sold out, there's no doubt I'll be getting one. I guess the upgrade over the ST50 will be nice, but I really would have liked for it not to develop any flaws to begin with. On a broader note, I feel we are entering a dark age of TVs. Nothing out of CES has made me particularly excited. Vizio seems the most disruptive, but we'll have to wait on reviews to see if they managed to put out landmark picture quality and no 3d really is a non-starter for quite a few people (no matter how much some people hate it.) There's just this massive gap between TVs like the Panasonic xT60 line and the Samsung's F8500 vs everything else on the market. Plasma has it's faults (boy does it ever), but no one seems committed to driving LCD quality to plasma levels. Panasonic's plasma line is discontinued and Samsung says that any plasma announcements are coming later in the year (which likely will consist of a cheaper version of the F8500 with the same panel but fewer features.) Samsung is probably just trying to do a quiet exit of the plasma market like they did with DLP. The only other manufacturer doing plasma is LG, but they aren't doing any R&D and are basically recycling model year after year. I fear that 2015 will be the end of plasma production altogether.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:31
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I'm looking at Samsung plasmas for a new TV. How big of an upgrade is the F8500 series over the F5500? Twice the price seems significant for what I'm assuming is the next step up in the line.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:39
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Personperson14 posted:I have a 40 inch in the M line and the picture is great, I believe it's better then the E ones from what I've read, and the TV itself is drat sexy. Also the viewing angle on it's great. I can watch it from my chair or my bed and it still looks good. This is totally the one I'm leaning towards. My only hesitance is that several reviewers have said that the 120Hz on it essentially does nothing, with some of them even saying it's actually a 60Hz panel. But this actually brings me to a larger question: Can anyone explain or point me to a link that explains exactly how the 120Hz panels remove the 3:2 pulldown of 24fps material? Is there a setting that needs to be turned on that's separate from the setting for Soap Opera Effect? When I try to  it, I just get articles explaining the difference between 120/240Hz refresh rate and the Soap Opera Effect, and how one doesn't necessarily cause the other. As I said earlier, I hate the SOE and plan on turning that off on any TV I get. But when removing the 3:2 of 24fps material, how does that work? The movie encoded on the disc is 23.98. Does the player add a 3:2 pulldown to transmit the 1080p/30 signal over HDMI, and then the TV detects the pulldown and removes it, to display true 24? Or does the Blu-Ray player detect that the TV is capable of displaying true 24, and then send a 1080p/24 signal over the HDMI? My reason for going through all this is to try and determine how often I will actually use the 2:3 removal portion of a 120Hz panel. The majority of content I'll be watching is from an AppleTV (Netflix, HBOGo, iTunes downloads, ripped DVDs, etc), and I assume most of it is from a 24fps source with a pulldown added by the AppleTV to get it to 1080p/30. Will a 120Hz TV benefit from this content, or only from Blu-Rays? OldSenileGuy fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 20:53
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For blu-ray, you should be able to tell your player to send 24p directly to the TV. From there though, it's down to the TV. It may automatically detect 24fps content and behave ideally (5:5 pulldown). It may behave poorly and do a 6:4 pulldown (basically convert the 24fps content to 60hz by doing a 3:2 telecine and then frame double it), in which case you will have judder just like you would on a 60hz set. This might be what people are referring to if they say it's not a "real" 120hz tv. Then, on top of that, there may be motion smoothing schemes that could be applied over either one of those pull down methods. Instead of repeating each frame 5 times, it may create intermediate frames and that would give you the soap opera effect. Nothing is standardized here, so it's really hard to say what one tv does vs another unless they explicitly spell it out for you. Some TVs may keep framerate settings and motion smoothing settings apart in menus, some may mash them together To FURTHER complicate matters, it is technically possible to completely reverse 3:2 pulldown to get the original pure 24fps material back and then do 5:5 on it so that it is completely judder free. However, that is going in with the assumption that the source encoded it into 3:2 just right and that the display is capable of recognizing the fields properly to de-interlace them. Then you get weird stuff like my ST50 which is only a 60hz display, but it accepts 24fps material natively. It then uses the motion smoothing algorithms to make the missing frames rather than having them interlaced. On one hand, it reduces judder quite a bit since you aren't dealing with interlacing. On the other hand, it adds a HINT of SOE. Films on netflix instant should be 24fps, but that's only the stream. The other consideration is whether or not the device you are using to display the netflix stream is capable of passing 24fps to the display or if they just automatically do a 3:2 telecine on any material they output. I'm not sure what iTunes outputs.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:25
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Then there's the case of the Samsung F7100 my parents have that has the audio go out of sync sometimes with 24p playback. I've googled around and it's a rare issue that no one really found a solution to other than "don't play the content in 24p or get a receiver and let it handle everything." Still sucks and nothing besides turning 24p playback off on the blu-ray player could fix it. I'm sure I could find a way into the service menu to change things there but that would put everything else out of sync so isn't worth it.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:34
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According to Vizio's feature matrix, the M401i-A3 doesn't have any sort of motion smoothing. A quick look through the owner's manual confirms the lack of any sort of settings for motion smoothing. So, I do not think you would get any sort of SOE from that TV. As far as how it handles content, that's anyone's guess. There's no indication anywhere in the specifications of what types of signals the TV accepts (if it will even accept 1080p24) nor what it will do with such material if it does accept them. I would say check one out in person just to confirm the lack of SOE and see if you like the way motion appears on it. There's nothing to tweak in the settings, so what you see is what you're going to get.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:41
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My 2007 Panasonic Plasma just died and I need to replace it. I loved the picture on that set. The S60 was sounding like a really good replacement, but it seems like they're basically impossible to find now. Any advice on a comparable TV? We use it for gaming as well as movies/tv, so the input lag seems like it would rule out the ST60.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:05
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3D being taken out sounds like it'll be a good idea. I can't even see 3D for some reason.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:48
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MolluskGoneBad posted:My 2007 Panasonic Plasma just died and I need to replace it. I loved the picture on that set. A whole bunch of S60s have popped up on the Best Buy open box tool posted on the last page or so in the last few days.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:53
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bull3964 posted:According to Vizio's feature matrix, the M401i-A3 doesn't have any sort of motion smoothing. A quick look through the owner's manual confirms the lack of any sort of settings for motion smoothing. So, I do not think you would get any sort of SOE from that TV. No it doesn't have any motion smoothing, It does have something called "Film Mode" though, which might be for 24p stuff?
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Jan 8, 2014 22:55
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Petey posted:A whole bunch of S60s have popped up on the Best Buy open box tool posted on the last page or so in the last few days. Funny thing about that; there was one in my area, but I tried to place the order online for store pickup and it charged my card but the order did not go through. 7-14 days to get refunded, they say, but they won't apply it as credit to buy the thing. Feel a bit burned & would rather avoid BB as a result, but if nothing comparable exists and there's still one around on Friday or after I may give them another shot.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:32
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Not 100% sure if this is the right thread for this, but most things audio/video might as well be Greek to me so I might as well.  
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 00:06
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There actually isn't 120hz content. It'll all be 1080p24, 1080i60, or 1080p30 (assuming all 1080p sources). 120hz is simply the refresh rate of the display, it doesn't affect anything outside of the display.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:11
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I need advice. We're buying a new Panasonic plasma, and both the 65" VT60 and the 60" ZT60 fall into our budget. We currently watch a 50" GT25 at a distance of ~12'. We play almost zero video games, mostly viewing Blu-ray and ripped 1080p content. Light control is basically a non-issue. For our case which set is preferable? I'd love the extra size, but if the ZT has noticeably superior picture quality it would be tough to pass up. Unfortunately the 65" ZT is out of budget.
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Jan 9, 2014 09:16
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bull3964 posted:There actually isn't 120hz content. It'll all be 1080p24, 1080i60, or 1080p30 (assuming all 1080p sources). Or, if you import a PAL bluray or download a rip of such an exotic beast, of course there are also 1080p25 and 1080i50... Modern TVs can handle PAL frame rates fine even if they are sold in the US.
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Jan 9, 2014 13:51
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So my ST50 no longer turns on, all I get is the power light flashing red 3 times, I assume this means it's broken pretty bad, any idea based on the 3 flash pattern what specific component has failed. I tried googling various phrases to no effect other than hey your hosed. Sorry posted in old thread before I realized this was the new one.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:36
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Koirhor posted:So my ST50 no longer turns on, all I get is the power light flashing red 3 times, I assume this means it's broken pretty bad, any idea based on the 3 flash pattern what specific component has failed. I tried googling various phrases to no effect other than hey your hosed. I believe 3 blinks is a bad A board.
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Jan 10, 2014 07:18
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My (720p) Samsung PN51F4500 was delivered today. It is shockingly good for the price. However, my main couch seems to be just a bit too close for the stepped-down resolution. When I'm on the couch, my head is about 7" away, and I can make see some jagged pixels around white text on newsbars and the like, and sometimes details appear soft. What's frustrating (and tellings) is that from a nearby chair, about 8.5" away, it's totally clear and clean. So Wirecutter was right, and I'm just a little too close. For $500 flat, it's still pretty good for what I need, but I am looking for one of the open box S60s. There's one at a Best Buy near me for $532 right now but in "fair" condition. I don't really care about the dent or the missing part (and I have to order a pedestal anyway since it won't come with it), but I just want to make sure the quality of the TV won't be bad. Is there anything I need to be concerned about with buying an open box, probably former display plasma?
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Jan 11, 2014 04:20
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Alright, gently caress this is intimidating. So I am officially ready to buy my first really big screen TV starting next week. I have budgeted aside an ABSOLUTE WILL NOT SPEND MORE THAN 900 dollars pre tax for this beast. Here are my questions, and I'll try to research from this starting point, but if not recommendations would be super helpful so thank you here we go! 1) I'd prefer to get it at costco just for peace of mind with the return policy and also the initial warranty, but then travel would be a pain. In general could i somehow make up for their prices online that would include shipping and an equitable warranty, or just stick to theirs? 2) The key things is that it is needs to do is be 50 inches, and allow me to stream hockey. I don't have cable and have no plans on it. I have a nexus 7 (2013), so I think I can handle it like that, but I'm not sure if that's a better option, hooking up a media computer eventually or finding a TV with a gamecenter app. 3) I have no systems but eventually I'd like one. 1080P and all that jazz. Thank you so much everyone, if you could just point me in directions I'll start looking. Lastly I heard this is the best time of year to look for a tv so that's why I'm doing it now instead of later.
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Jan 11, 2014 05:53
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Veskit posted:Alright, gently caress this is intimidating. I don't have a Costco account, so it's hard to search the site, but this one seems nice: http://www.costco.com/Vizio-55%22-Class-1080p-240Hz-3D-LED-M551D-A2-.product.100048230.html 55", Smart Apps, 240hz, LED, Passive 3D which could be fun.
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Jan 11, 2014 06:11
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BonoMan posted:I don't have a Costco account, so it's hard to search the site, but this one seems nice: Slightly out of my price range, BUT what the keys to this tv? Is it the 240HZ and LED that make it better for what I'm looking for compared to the samsung models they have? Also gently caress 3d.
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Jan 11, 2014 06:13
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Veskit posted:Slightly out of my price range, BUT what the keys to this tv? Is it the 240HZ and LED that make it better for what I'm looking for compared to the samsung models they have? How do you plan to stream Hockey? Chromecast? http://www.costco.com/Samsung-60%22-Class-1080p-120Hz-LED-HDTV-UN60FH6003F.product.100072525.html What's the price on this Samsung? It seems fine, I like Sammys, but it also only has 2 HDMI inputs. edit: Also Costco's site is horrible. Won't let me see virtually any price (I get that I'm not a member...but seeing your prices might act to entice me to become a member!), and there's like... 8 whole TV's in the 500-1000 price range. This Vizio, while an economy model, is not bad: http://www.costco.com/Vizio-50%22-1080p-120Hz-Full-Array-LED-Smart-HDTV-E500i-B1.product.100095770.html BonoMan fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 11, 2014 |
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Jan 11, 2014 06:17
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Veskit posted:Alright, gently caress this is intimidating. I just went shopping under a similar set of circumstances. I love Costco but was unimpressed by their selection: whenever I found a good deal in their store in my pricerange (500-650), it turned out that it was some crappy TV that Costco had relabeled to make it hard to search for by its generic model number. I did, however, get a reasonably good soundbar at Costco for $149. Conversely, I usually don't like Best Buy, but had a very good experience with their prices, so long as I avoided the blue shirts and random Sharp salesman trying to upsell me. They have some good open box / clearance stuff happening right now. As for streaming games...your cheapest option would be Chromecast, I'd wager, because if you can watch it on your laptop you can then stream that tab to your TV.
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Jan 11, 2014 06:29
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These are the ones in my price range I'm not entirely attached to costco, and if it's lovely than I won't bother. I don't have an extra laptop or an "entertainment computer" right now to hook up to the tv, so unfortunately to watch hockey my only options are either the TV's software, or eventually just buy a ps3. I could include that into my budget, but then I'd have to do some cuts to the TV itself. I guess Chromecast won't work for gamecenter so that's out of the question. Roku will, but those seem pricey and i have no the gently caress idea about those.
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Jan 11, 2014 06:45
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Veskit posted:These are the ones in my price range For what it's worth, I finally unboxed my 60' Vizio (E-series) and it looks wonderful. Haven't tested out gaming with it yet but I did an assload of research beforehand and it has the lowest display lag out of comparable sizes from any brand (in the sub-$1k price range). If you want to game, stay away from the M-series but I know that 50' also has a great rating regarding lag (since I bought that first before I snagged the 60' lightning deal). Roku owns the most out of all of them (at least for variety's sake) but I have no idea if it'll do live sports. I actually kinda doubt it.
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Jan 11, 2014 06:57
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The Joe Man posted:Roku owns the most out of all of them (at least for variety's sake) but I have no idea if it'll do live sports. I actually kinda doubt it. It says it does game center, but I have no idea if it does it well or not and is worth having over just setting up a separate system.
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Jan 11, 2014 07:26
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Veskit posted:I don't have an extra laptop or an "entertainment computer" right now to hook up to the tv, so unfortunately to watch hockey my only options are either the TV's software, or eventually just buy a ps3. I could include that into my budget, but then I'd have to do some cuts to the TV itself. Well, if you have a computer, then you can still use that to Chromecast a game (streaming online anyway) to the TV from wherever else it is in the house so long as it's on the same WiFi network. So you could set it up in your bedroom/office/sex dungeon/wherever and then scurry up to the living room and sit on your couch. That's how I watched the NCAA NC. Had my laptop on my lap, loaded a stream of the game in a Chrome window, cast that window to the TV, minimized that window on my laptop, and post post posted away in the GDT while the TV mirrored my minimized tab. I had a Mac Mini as a central computer, but honestly, the Chromecast works so well I'm thinking about selling it, because the Chromecast and maybe an old AppleTV can do 95% of what my Mac Mini can do for 1/6th the cost Petey fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jan 11, 2014 |
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Jan 11, 2014 15:22
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Petey posted:Well, if you have a computer, then you can still use that to Chromecast a game (streaming online anyway) to the TV from wherever else it is in the house so long as it's on the same WiFi network. So you could set it up in your bedroom/office/sex dungeon/wherever and then scurry up to the living room and sit on your couch. Ohhhh. I thought you had to have a google device for it to stream it into. That's really cool then and solves that. So next is do I only want a 240 HZ TV if hockey is my biggest concern? Is the difference between 120/240 negligible?
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Jan 11, 2014 18:02
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I recently bought an LG 42 inch TV, which I'm very happy with in regards to picture quality. The sound, however, leaves a lot to be desired. Anyone have any budget-friendly recommendations for a compatible audio system? 2/1 or 3/1 are fine, doesn't have to be surround sound or anything. Is this the right place to ask?
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Jan 11, 2014 20:33
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stickyfngrdboy posted:I recently bought an LG 42 inch TV, which I'm very happy with in regards to picture quality. The sound, however, leaves a lot to be desired. Anyone have any budget-friendly recommendations for a compatible audio system? 2/1 or 3/1 are fine, doesn't have to be surround sound or anything. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-soundbar/
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Jan 11, 2014 20:49
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Veskit posted:Ohhhh. I thought you had to have a google device for it to stream it into. That's really cool then and solves that. So next is do I only want a 240 HZ TV if hockey is my biggest concern? Is the difference between 120/240 negligible? If you're streaming Gamecenter with Chromecast you're only getting 30FPS most of the time so the motion smoothing 120Hz+ is recommended for won't help you.
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Jan 11, 2014 21:03
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Sold, thanks bono
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Jan 11, 2014 21:04
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Aphrodite posted:If you're streaming Gamecenter with Chromecast you're only getting 30FPS most of the time so the motion smoothing 120Hz+ is recommended for won't help you. Ahhh, that makes sense for chromcast, but I do plan on having htis TV for a while in planning for the future. does the 240 make a huge difference for hockey in general?
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Jan 11, 2014 21:25
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It's not something that will make hockey unwatchable without it or anything, but it's kind of cool how you can still see everything when they have to whip the camera across the ice for a stretch pass or something like that.
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Jan 11, 2014 21:36
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Aphrodite posted:It's not something that will make hockey unwatchable without it or anything, but it's kind of cool how you can still see everything when they have to whip the camera across the ice for a stretch pass or something like that. That does sound really cool...
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Jan 11, 2014 22:15
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Veskit posted:Alright, gently caress this is intimidating. Last time I went to costco, I saw a 4K no name tv in that price range.
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Jan 11, 2014 22:30
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Picked up a UN60F8000 from Best Buy on Friday. Was able to haggle a bit on an open box. Wouldn't have bought it but I felt like $1900 and a free 2 year geek squad plan was worth it. Trip report sofar: Watched Pacific Rim and the colors looked amazing. It does have the splitscreen 3D which I was wondering about earlier. Slightly noticeable lag when used as monitor/gaming, but is eliminated when I switch it to game mode. I don't feel I'm qualified to speak of picture quality, but comparing it to the Vizio E470i-A0 its replacing, it just blows it out of the water. I love the overall style of the TV, the odd size of the TV's stand might be a problem for some but luckily I custom built my TV stand so its big enough to support it. I wish the bezels on my computer monitors were this small. I don't quite understand what the excitement is over Samsung's smart feature set. I've still got some more exploring to do but it feels like it could be easily improved with some customization. I dunno I think maybe its supposed to track what you watch and customize it around that, we'll see.
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Jan 12, 2014 13:09
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I just had a look at prices here and a 46" basic non 3D TV is the same price as a well regarded 720p 3D projector that will give me an image twice as big and be generally more practical give our lifestyle. Is there a projector thread somewhere ?
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Jan 12, 2014 14:00
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Veskit posted:Alright, gently caress this is intimidating. So as a backup to the costco plan, I found this TV for sale on Amazon that seems like a good deal and meets my needs. http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-58L13...#productDetails Does anyone know a reason why I wouldn't want this thing? Seems pretty sweet for the price. The only issues I could find on it are that there are only 3 HDMI ports, but I don't know much about this tv. Thanks in advance!
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Jan 12, 2014 20:10
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Q: while perusing the AVS forums for calibration settings for my PN51F4500, I've seen a lot of people offhandedly implying that you should wait awhile before calibrating your TV. Is this true? Will it do damage if I've been dicking around already?
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Jan 12, 2014 23:42
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