|
xzzy posted:65 mph (which is the max speed limit in Illinois) comes out to 95 feet per second. So if you're 30 feet behind a car and something happens, you have less than third of a second to identify the problem and react before you collide with them. That math works if the car suddenly explodes into momentumless chunks, or runs into an immovable wall, or something similarly unlikely. Assuming the car in front decelerates in a more probable manner, you've got a much more realistic window in which to brake and maneuver. So if you're going to follow close (which is practically a necessity on a crowded highway, or others are going to fill the gap anyway) be sure to be watching beyond the car in front of you, not just his bumper / taillights. And conversely if you feel the need to tint your rear window into total opacity, realize it may increase your chance of being rearended. Throw in radar cruise control that'll brake you to a stop and this gets even messier.
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 13:01 |
|
|
Or even if they don't stop in an instant, the chunk of tire that some semi barfed all over the passing lane will still be sitting there, motionless.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
xzzy posted:65 mph (which is the max speed limit in Illinois) As of 8 days ago it's now 70! Except possibly in some Chicago-land areas because they get to opt out of it or something (as if anyone does less than 80 ever up there).
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:It is if they aren't looking up at the dead-stopped traffic in front of them. Which, if you're paying attention, you shouldn't have any trouble seeing well before you encounter it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
It's people following too close that eat up all the road gators and ladders lying across the lanes. Those are the main reason I don't follow so close.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
I only follow as closely as my brakes can adequately stop my vehicle in a oh poo poo situation. which ain' that good. so I take my time and leave space. (I really need to do the vented rotors and Defender calipers oh god I hate the brakes on this thiiiing)
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:42
|
|
|
Geoj posted:It's not like the car ahead of you is going to go from 70 to 0 in an instant. Snowdens Secret posted:That math works if the car suddenly explodes into momentumless chunks, or runs into an immovable wall, or something similarly unlikely. Assuming the car in front decelerates in a more probable manner, you've got a much more realistic window in which to brake and maneuver. Yep. He probably is a bit too close, but the flaw in your calculations is that he has 1/3rd of a second to react before he reaches where the car in front was, not before he definitely hits it. It won't be there anymore, and even if it instantly started braking at 1g, the closing speed after the half-second you quote would be about 10mph, and whether or not there's a collision is going to depend on whether the car in front brakes harder (crunch) or he does (no crunch). He's probably going to gobble up half his following distance just reacting, but the question of how things end comes down to who hits the pedal hardest.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2014 23:43
|
|
|
I'm seeing a new thing (or else the popularity of the stupidity has grown to the point that I'm around when it happens). Spokane WA has a wonderful intersection of major through streets, Sprague (E/W two-way, 4 lanes) and Division (at the intersection, 4 lane northbound). (There's also a railroad bridge heading NE/SW overhead, so there's a lot of over-height vehicles getting jammed or scalped.  ) Division has a small island-seperated right-turn lane (onto East Sprague), which isn't an issue (yet). Westbound Sprague has the same thing (onto Division), while it's a full "no turns allowed" for eastbound Sprague. Not a problem, right? Except... now, the eastbound special snowflakes that want to go north are *not* using the turn - they'll stay in the outside lane, and just sloppily hang a right across 2-3 lanes of traffic (because lol gently caress changing lanes amirite) once they pass the island. I'm awaiting getting near-missed/splattered by these fucktards as I cross Division after work, as that's the crosswalk I use. And while that's one of the red-light-camera intersections, that poo poo isn't getting flashed. (If I can find a diagram that show the intersection, I'll post. That, or MSPaint. I should also find some of the truckjams on the bridge, as well.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Short following distances make me uncomfortable but there are times when it's necessary to "manage" other traffic (ie dickheads that try to cut in front of you) just because you're leaving a reasonable gap. I generally avoid following vehicles that don't allow me to see several cars ahead, and I watch their behavior first; my eyes will automatically pick up on brake lights / sudden motion from the vehicle I'm behind. I've managed to be the one guy who wasn't part of a 6-7 car chain reaction rear-ender because I'm on the brakes before the cars ahead of me are.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 01:19
|
|
|
I nearly got rear-ended yesterday because I saw a ladder start doing the "I'm going to grab wind and ruin your day" dance in the bed of a pickup in front of me and started braking hard a split second before the driver of the pickup did. The rear end in a top hat that nearly plowed into me looked up from his phone like I'm the rear end in a top hat here  , I should have just swerved around him on the shoulder and let him eat an extension ladder through his windshield.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 01:42
|
|
|
If you think you're going to need to dodge road debris that the guy in front of you steamrolls over, you need to add a lot more follow distance, because after your split-second reaction on ninja reflexes you're going to need either time and distance to stop (let's call this unlikely) or make a controlled move at least partly into the next lane / shoulder, which hopefully isn't occupied. Since most car drivers aren't constantly scanning for escape routes, and most traffic isn't going to give you this space anyway, generally it's more just enough time to go "oh, poo poo" and maybe try to parse the debris's former identity before it smacks into your car. If it was small enough to go under the presumably-not-Gravedigger-lifted car in front, it's likely going to do cosmetic damage at most, while a snap emergency maneuver creates much greater odds of you or another nearby vehicle losing control.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 01:49
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:If you think you're going to need to dodge road debris that the guy in front of you steamrolls over, you need to add a lot more follow distance, because after your split-second reaction on ninja reflexes you're going to need either time and distance to stop (let's call this unlikely) or make a controlled move at least partly into the next lane / shoulder, which hopefully isn't occupied. Since most car drivers aren't constantly scanning for escape routes, and most traffic isn't going to give you this space anyway, generally it's more just enough time to go "oh, poo poo" and maybe try to parse the debris's former identity before it smacks into your car. If it was small enough to go under the presumably-not-Gravedigger-lifted car in front, it's likely going to do cosmetic damage at most, while a snap emergency maneuver creates much greater odds of you or another nearby vehicle losing control. I don't know what perfect world you live in but it was pretty busy traffic in a large metropolitan area, which means that there are no safe following gaps, there's a dick ready to fill that hole for you the instant you make it. I'm pretty tired of you guys that think people drive like that just to gently caress around, go back to the farm Billy Bob, you don't know what city life is like. The guy that was behind him exited right before I spotted the surprise, so it's not like I was behind a deathtrap for miles. I could have driven over the ladder and probably messed up a tire or two (and my pants), my Jeep has the clearance; texting and driving shithead behind me didn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 03:50
|
|
|
Or you get the effect of a heavy object driving across a lighter object that is on the ground. This guy has to be abt. 30-40ft back from the vehicle ahead of him, could you have reacted in time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO2meAhVQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player Best rule of thumb for following, if you can't see in front of the vehicle ahead of you, you're too close. Fake edit: I occasionally do this to road cones that wander too close to the travel lanes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:03
|
|
|
I was talking about xzzy's theoretical tire chunk coming undetected under the car in front of you, not a flying contractor ladder. And I'm about the last person to support some jackass texting while driving anyway. Relax, guy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:05
|
|
|
Maybe I'm just an overly mellow driver then, if I'm following at a genuinely safe distance (which I do) and someone sees that as an opportunity to cram in there (which happens constantly, it's just the way life in the city is), I just ease off briefly to reestablish my gap. It's not a race, there's no prize for getting to the destination first. A steady cruising speed is far more valuable to me, and cars jamming together slows everyone down because people are constantly stabbing their brakes trying to deal with people zig zagging and looking for some minuscule advantage.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
I'd love a perfect word where we can all follow the 2-second rule for spacing. That world may exist somewhere in space & time. When I attempt it I am constantly reminded of an anecdote passed along by my mother, when she was a young bride & riding in the backseat of my grandfather's 1960 T-Bird, in Houston. Gramps was going about 80 & tailgating. Nervous, she frequently asked him to back off. Gramps said it wouldn't make any difference. She was adamant. He finally humoured her & hit the brakes. <schwoop> car pulls right in front of him. "See, Nance? They're all nuts here."
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
xzzy posted:I just ease off briefly to reestablish my gap. So you've never driven in heavy traffic before? If you're just going to endlessly "ease off to reestablish [a] gap" then you might as well just stop on the shoulder and put your hazards on until traffic clears. PainterofCrap posted:I'd love a perfect word where we can all follow the 2-second rule for spacing. That world may exist somewhere in space & time. But but *hypothetical situation where following at 2 seconds is suicide.*
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
cursedshitbox posted:I only follow as closely as my brakes can adequately stop my vehicle in a oh poo poo situation. Know that feeling. It's not easy to pull up 3500kg on mud terrains even in fantastic weather, so I always leave a gap that's bigger than most. Perfect for some dickhead in a normal car to pull into and wonder why the 4wd behind them has come to a smoking stop slightly sideways onto the median strip. My father ran over an MG in a ford blitz many many years ago from someone pulling in front of him and stopping. Gave the bloke in the MG a love tap on the back of the head with the bumper.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:29
|
|
|
xzzy posted:Maybe I'm just an overly mellow driver then, if I'm following at a genuinely safe distance (which I do) and someone sees that as an opportunity to cram in there (which happens constantly, it's just the way life in the city is), I just ease off briefly to reestablish my gap. I live in Massachusetts, I would end up doing 20mph below the speed of traffic if I tried to do this. I follow at what I consider to be a reasonable distance (slightly more than average for someone in mass) and watch the taillights of the 2-3 people in front of me. I often end up braking before the person in front of me manages to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:31
|
|
|
PainterofCrap posted:"See, Nance? They're all nuts here." This really should be in the thread title or something
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 04:43
|
|
|
Geoj posted:So you've never driven in heavy traffic before? If you're just going to endlessly "ease off to reestablish [a] gap" then you might as well just stop on the shoulder and put your hazards on until traffic clears. I love how people keep saying to maintain a safe gap, but it's not possible without avoiding heavy traffic; you can't form a gap, people fill them in. I'd have to move out of San Antonio. Hell, even Corpus Christi gets heavy traffic for a bit during typical rush hour times. I'd have to live in a rural area and never ever need to be in a population center over 5,000 people. My commute has 15 miles of 65mph traffic with vehicles closer together than one second. Driving San Antonio to Austin is almost as dense for most of the day. If you think you can leave a safe gap, you are not understanding the problem.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 06:10
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:Don't tailgate, dickweed. Yo it's hardly tailgating when you're a reasonable and safe distance behind the other car, dickweed. Fifty feet is a pretty reasonable distance when there's no other cars on the highway and you can see over the car in front of you nigga crab pollock fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jan 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 06:24
|
|
|
nigga crab pollock posted:Yo it's hardly tailgating when you're a reasonable and safe distance behind the other car, dickweed. If there's no other cars, poo poo, I'm 200 feet back or more. Or I just pass them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 06:47
|
|
|
I became the most laid back driver ever as soon as I got a motorcycle. Driving is just for getting places, get a bike.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 07:13
|
|
|
Geoj posted:So you've never driven in heavy traffic before? If you're just going to endlessly "ease off to reestablish [a] gap" then you might as well just stop on the shoulder and put your hazards on until traffic clears. Define heavy traffic? Because here in Chicago, rush hour is a literal parking lot. It doesn't matter how close you are to the bumper of the guy in front of you because everyone is moving at 5 mph. Outside of rush hour when there's what I'd call "moderate" traffic and speeds increase to 55-65 there is plenty of space to maintain a proper 2-3 second gap. Late at night it's even easier because there's so few cars out. Those are basically the only three types of driving that exist on Chicago highways.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 07:41
|
|
|
xzzy posted:Define heavy traffic? Because here in Chicago, rush hour is a literal parking lot. It doesn't matter how close you are to the bumper of the guy in front of you because everyone is moving at 5 mph. We don't do parking lots down here, it's 65mph nearly bumper to bumper. Unless it's raining then you better stay at home.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 07:43
|
|
|
Maybe it's just been the few places I've lived(Milwaukee, far northern Chicago suburbs), but if there's little enough traffic to keep establishing a gap without repeating the process every 2 seconds, chances are it's basically just you and one or two other cars on the road. If there's anything vaguely resembling normal daytime traffic, you're going to have a bad time if you try pulling that stunt. Not that I really care if other people do that, as long as they stay in the rightmost lane with the other slow traffic. But if I was stuck behind some doofus who kept slowing down every single time someone pulled in front of him, I'd be passing him ASAP. I don't even care if it's getting me there any faster, it just plain pisses me off to be behind someone who can't maintain a constant speed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 07:57
|
|
|
Well that goes without saying. I'm not cruising in the passing lane. I do in fact watch my mirror to see if anyone is creeping up on me who clearly wants to go faster (which is normal, while traffic typically settles at 65 around Chicago, there's always people pushing 75). I really spend a lot of my time driving trying to not piss anyone else off, sure would be nice if it were more of a trend. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 08:12
|
|
|
Bumming Your Scene posted:It's people following too close that eat up all the road gators and ladders lying across the lanes. Those are the main reason I don't follow so close. True story. Driving back in the dead of night from Miami to northern bumfuck Alabama along a rural four-lane road with very, very light traffic. So my sleep-deprived mind somehow thought it would be a good idea to hang back some 20 or 30-odd feet from an 18-wheeler up front. Said big rig straddles over what looks like a big-rear end patch of red dirt. "Oh, I'll just straddle my car ov*WHAM*" Car gets knocked into neutral somehow. I keep coasting until I manage to get it back into drive and stop at the first gas station I see. Cue the next 15 minutes spent wondering 1)what the hell I just ran over, 2)is my car hosed and 3)who the gently caress's gonna give me a tow and a ride some 250 miles back home (protip: get roadside assistance). Local cop shows up wondering what the hell's going on, I explain what happened and he sets off down the road in the opposite direction and comes back minutes later. Turns out I ran over a dead dog. The only damage was a bent muffler, a torn-up air dam and the putrid smell of dead dog meat every time the catalytic converters got nice and warm for the next couple of weeks. Lesson here is don't drive up another driver's rear end and don't drive when you're dead tired, no matter how much you try to will yourself into going a bit longer. 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Jan 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 09:10
|
|
|
Geoj posted:So you've never driven in heavy traffic before? If you're just going to endlessly "ease off to reestablish [a] gap" then you might as well just stop on the shoulder and put your hazards on until traffic clears. Bald tyres and too short following distance during winter weather. He even argued that he expected my Twingo to stop slower than his much older Hyundai, for no aparent reason he had decided that a small car like mine doesn't come with ABS. I wasn't even doing 30kph when he hit me, still he caused a good 1200 euro in damages to my car. His arguing that I suddenly stopped made no difference at all. He should have been able to stop his car in time, hell I was able to stop in time to prevent an accident with the moped.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 09:29
|
|
|
Deedle posted:He even argued that he expected my Twingo to stop slower than his much older Hyundai, for no aparent reason he had decided that a small car like mine doesn't come with ABS. ABS makes you stop slower 
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 11:28
|
|
|
For a race car driver, you'd be correct. Also correct for someone who knows how to threshold brake... and never, ever panics. For your average driver that sees "OH gently caress ABOUT TO KILL SOMEONE" and jams on the brakes... ABS will stop then quicker in most conditions (if they don't go "oh poo poo" over the pedal turned vibrator). The vast majority of people will just stand on the brakes in a panic situation. For your average driver, I'd say ABS only hurts braking time on ice. I consider myself an above average driver, but if I have to panic brake, my first thought is "shove brake pedal and clutch pedal through firewall".
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 11:40
|
|
|
One time I was taking an onramp a little too fast for the wet conditions. It was early in the morning, and I was just following the guy in front of me. He started to go sideways in oversteer, and I started to understeer towards the outer barrier. I put my foot into the brake, ABS did its job, and I regained control and steered right out of it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 13:12
|
|
|
jammyozzy posted:You've just reminded me of one of Coventry's most egrerious road design decisions, which only got fixed fairly recently. Behold: I know this is from a few pages back - but I used to live just out of shot of this picture and have had no less than 3 crashes on this very roundabout, all rear ended by someone craning their neck in 20 directions to try and figure out if they can go, knowing if they stop and lose their speed they will be sitting and waiting for an age. Coventry - we build great cars but loving stupid roads.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 15:02
|
|
|
EightBit posted:I love how people keep saying to maintain a safe gap, but it's not possible without avoiding heavy traffic; you can't form a gap, people fill them in. Easily solved. Try to drive at the average speed of traffic. I usually idle along in second gear and the gap in front of me grows and shrinks, grows and shrinks. People merge in, people merge out. If I get my speed right I never have to touch the brakes. I find it almost zen-like in the concentration required to keep that speed juuuuust right and I get pissed when I do have to tap the brakes. Riding the guy's bumper in front of me isn't going to get me to my destination any faster.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 16:00
|
|
|
FogHelmut posted:One time I was taking an onramp a little too fast for the wet conditions. It was early in the morning, and I was just following the guy in front of me. He started to go sideways in oversteer, and I started to understeer towards the outer barrier. I put my foot into the brake, ABS did its job, and I regained control and steered right out of it. I frequently heard that this would be a bad, bad thing in cars with most of the weight central and that I should slowly let off the throttle to avoid snap oversteer. Of course, the examples I can think of come from a friend of mine who has only driven MR vehicles and managed to snap oversteer a supercharged minivan off the road and is now daily driving a pre-1993 AW20 MR2. Edit: Also a coworker oversteered a 964 into a wall and came in telling all of us "never ever lift off throttle in a turn".
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
In a slightly different twist, I had this Suburban flashing his high beams at me as I was approaching a bend on a country road on my way to work. I didn't have my high beams on and was subsequently confused. I was going into the bend fast (I'd say a little under 55 mph in a 45 zone and 35 at the bend) so I decided to slow down because I thought it may have been a cop. Also, it was 28F and raining and soon saw why the Suburban was flashing me. There was a pickup truck crashed off the side of the road at the bend. I hit the brakes harder only to have the ABS kick in and I slowly start to skid due to the black ice. There was even more carnage further along but I was able to maneuver around the accident and continued along at 30 mph for the next few miles while testing my brakes to see if the ABS would still kick in. So thank you whoever was in that Suburban from stopping me from driving into the forest. If I hadn't slowed down sooner, I would have ended up like that pickup. And people think New Jersey drivers are bad drivers and discourteous.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 16:18
|
|
|
kastein posted:I live in Massachusetts, I would end up doing 20mph below the speed of traffic if I tried to do this. This is how I am the only one in my family never to be involved in a crash on the highway. And they all say I'm to slow when it's more, I know people around me are stupid and I need to be alert for stupid poo poo. Now I'm moving to New Bedford for work and that place is so loving full of stupid drivers. I'd say worse than Boston drivers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 16:21
|
|
|
Kill-9 posted:Easily solved. Try to drive at the average speed of traffic. I usually idle along in second gear and the gap in front of me grows and shrinks, grows and shrinks. People merge in, people merge out. If I get my speed right I never have to touch the brakes. I find it almost zen-like in the concentration required to keep that speed juuuuust right and I get pissed when I do have to tap the brakes. Riding the guy's bumper in front of me isn't going to get me to my destination any faster.  I will downshift all the way into first to keep from tapping the brakes. The only downside is if you've got a texter behind you and they don't see brake lights they won't look up. This wasn't so much of a problem with the stickerbombed BMW, but the Miata with the top down is much harder to see over the hood of the SUV that is invariably filling my rearview with grille. Protip, assholes: If I can't see all of both of your headlights in my mirror and the largest distinguishable feature is the manufacturer logo YOU'RE TOO loving CLOSE.  Also, heavy fog this morning. 3/5 cars with no lights. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 13:01 |
|
|
What is it with people who drive with two feet in automatic cars?? I was on my way to the gym after work yesterday and following at a safe distance behind this Chrysler Cirrus, who was following the car in front of it very closely. It didn't matter whether we were going uphill, downhill, or on level ground - this car maintained its close following distance to the car in front of it, but its taillights were basically a strobe light of brake stabs. Even though the car was maintaining its speed and I was in no danger of coming too close, it is just stressful following a car that stabs its brakes every second or so. ESPECIALLY going uphill. Who the hell learns to drive that way?? I honestly can't think of any explanation aside from two-foot driving.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2014 16:32
|
|
