|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's a really stupid thing to write. And yet, he's right.
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 04:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 01:57 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's a really stupid thing to write.  SuperMechagodzilla posted:So I rewatched the Empire Strikes back for the first time in a very long while. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
redshirt posted:In this analogy, is every sentient being a potential Jedi? That is, fully realized in the Force? As with Christ's mission of freeing all mankind from sin (the Dark side)? Hbomberguy posted:But Jesus was the ultimate comedian. I'm the son of God, guys, hey check this out! Oh no, turns out I'm gonna die horribly, only for people to carry around pictures of it for thousands of years! The stuff Luke is getting up to at the end of Return Of The Jedi is altogether different. The original Jedi dualism was false: there were no light and dark sides. Only darkness. It's only with the force dead that the true light side could emerge, as its 'holy spirit'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 05:01
|
|
|
But the people who claim Darth Vader is the literal incarnation of the Force are the bumbling idiots who get nothing right, I thought? How come the Jedi, who according to this reading manage to misunderstand the basics of what makes up their own source of belief, are right about this one thing?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 08:15
|
|
|
They're wrong about what to do about him, not about what he is. They're misguided and arrogant, not utterly delusional.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 08:20
|
|
|
If Christ returned, whichever Church got their hands on him first would certainly have plans for him. They would be wrong and stupid even though the person at the core was right. Perhaps, good idea bad pitch, the best thing for Christ to do would be to burn down every church and destroy all of Christianity, leaving the goodness inside each christian individual to no longer sublimate itself to faith in gGd or Jesus (church-constrained love essentially), and then vanish again from the world before anyone starts building statues and misses the point again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 08:28
|
|
|
And that arrogance got them nearly wiped out. "The boy will bring balance to the force." Balance to what exactly? They even said the Sith hadn't been around for thousand years before the events of Episode 1. It was an entire era of peace and prosperity compared to the countless wars beforehand. Things were going pretty good for that Jedi Order over yonder.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 08:29
|
|
|
That 'balance' ends up being the destruction of the institution.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
Taking the EU into account, I subscribe to the theory that balance meant literal numerical balance. The Force has always been about a duality between dark and light, good and evil. The Sith were many, the Jedi were many. Everything was kosher. But then the Sith were two and the Jedi were many. The Vader comes along and suddenly the Sith were few and the Jedi were few. Bam, balance. Then you have the various darkside users after Vader and Palpie alongside the few Jedi during the early days of the New Order, then continue up to the Lost Tribe and One Sith once the Order was fully recovered. After Bane's whole temper tantrum on Ruusan there was no balance. "Good" (i.e; Jedi) was rampant. No good can come without evil, so there was no balance. By knocking the Jedi down a peg Vader literally rebalanced The Force. As far as just straight movie canon goes though, I just assumed Lucas didn't think that far ahead when he came up with the whole Chosen One shtick.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 09:33
|
|
|
I like thinking it was intentional and just poorly emphasized. The PT is rife with interesting ideas executed with all the finesse of a butter knife surgery. Also almost all of the EU has been officially thrown out (including Thrawn) by Disney.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 09:38
|
|
|
echronorian posted:Also almost all of the EU has been officially thrown out (including Thrawn) by Disney. Nah. Leland Chee is just revising the EU and throwing out certain things to consolidate the overall history so as to make it easier to not conflict with plans for future media. We don't know yet what is being kept and what is being declared non-canon. Once we have the list though, everything that is being kept Disney is elevating to 100% no question canon going forward and plans to take steps to keep the Universe more cohesive and less inconsistent than in the past. Esroc fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Jan 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 09:43
|
|
|
I don't know they could really have the thrawn trilogy and episode seven through nine not being conflicting. Haven't read it since I was a kid though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 09:54
|
|
|
echronorian posted:I like thinking it was intentional and just poorly emphasized. The PT is rife with interesting ideas executed with all the finesse of a butter knife surgery. Also almost all of the EU has been officially thrown out (including Thrawn) by Disney. I've been seeing this more and more and people really need to learn how to read news articles.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 10:00
|
|
|
echronorian posted:I don't know they could really have the thrawn trilogy and episode seven through nine not being conflicting. Haven't read it since I was a kid though. Because Hamill, Fisher, and Ford are borderline geriatrics. The age of the actors means that Episode VII will almost certainly take place many decades after ROTJ. They could conceivably keep everything up to Fate of the Jedi if they wanted. I hope they don't, and doubt they will, but they could. Thrawn is too popular to throw out. I'm willing to bet it's fairly safe. The New Jedi Order has its fans, but shook up the story a lot, so it's iffy. Legacy and Fate are an unyielding shitpile, they'll almost certainly be tossed. Of course this is all speculation until we get a definitive list. But I don't see them throwing out the more popular stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 10:01
|
|
|
The news article infers it and I agree with the hunch, I should've worded my post better. But who knows.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 10:02
|
|
|
Esroc posted:Because Hamill, Fisher, and Ford are borderline geriatrics. The age of the actors means that Episode VII will almost certainly take place many decades after ROTJ. They could conceivably keep everything up to Fate of the Jedi if they wanted. I hope they don't, and doubt they will, but they could. Burn it all down. There's too much poo poo to make it ever worth reading and they'd just have to tiptoe around it so people never have to. They're certainly not going to film any of it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 10:43
|
|
|
I just want boba fett and republic commando movies, we can skip everything else, including bringing back the old actors.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 11:00
|
|
|
Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:I just want boba fett and republic commando movies, we can skip everything else, including bringing back the old actors. Boba Fett is a canon bitch who died appropriately. The next film begins with Han Solo laughing at an old photo of himself dancing at Boba's sad, lonely funeral.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 11:40
|
|
|
I don't really see what's all that interesting about Fett. He's a bounty hunter. Oh, he's got a cool mask. He's a clone of his papa. He gets eaten by a sand-vagina. ??
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 12:29
|
|
|
Shrimp or Shrimps posted:I don't really see what's all that interesting about Fett. bolded the important part
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 12:32
|
|
|
Shrimp or Shrimps posted:I don't really see what's all that interesting about Fett. He's the token strong silent type. A sadly large number of nerds identify with him because they consider themselves strong and silent. Because it's easier than admitting they're just socially broken.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 12:47
|
|
|
The bounty hunters recruited by Vader in ESB are basically bad versions of the hero crew. Anyone asking how to detect 'strength in the force' - well, those dudes are strong in the dark side (as opposed to the Imperials, who are just weak and stupid). See also the dudes Obiwan kills in the cantina. They're a lovely Han Solo with a lovely Chewbacca. While Vader is a lapdog in Star Wars - failing in the end because he relies on his targeting computer instead of the force - Empire Strikes Back is where he starts displaying the full power of the dark side. The 'appeal' of Boba Fett is that he's "what if Han Solo were a Nazi collaborator and war profiteer who never has sex?" The joke of all the growling lizardmen and sniper robots is basically the 'stunt double' gag from Spaceballs. It's not the real team, and they don't work as a team. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jan 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 12:56
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The bounty hunters recruited by Vader in ESB are basically bad versions of the hero crew. Anyone asking how to detect 'strength in the force' - well, those dudes are strong in the dark side (as opposed to the Imperials, who are just weak and stupid). edit: I am agreeing with you SuperMechaGodzilla keep being the best poster I adore the first two Star Wars films, but they are some of the finest examples of 'it's all in the execution.' Star Wars is on its best game when watched as a tribute to old Flash Gordon adventure serials. The more people try to dig into the story, the more it loses its charm. I am not saying 'just turn your brain off', but it's not Von Trier. It's not supposed to be! It's supposed to be fun. Sometimes I like to have fun . Appreciating the craftsmanship, the films it takes influence from, the artistic decisions - there is more than enough content in those areas alone to fuel my love for the films for a lifetime. Trying to dig really deep into the plot just seems like an exercise in inevitable frustration. "FROM MY POINT OF VIEW IT IS THE JEDI WHO ARE EVIL" Digi_Kraken fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jan 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 14:31
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
I like this; so why do people want a film about Fett?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 15:16
|
|
|
Esroc posted:Taking the EU into account, I subscribe to the theory that balance meant literal numerical balance. The Force has always been about a duality between dark and light, good and evil. The Sith were many, the Jedi were many. Everything was kosher. But then the Sith were two and the Jedi were many. The Vader comes along and suddenly the Sith were few and the Jedi were few. Bam, balance. Then you have the various darkside users after Vader and Palpie alongside the few Jedi during the early days of the New Order, then continue up to the Lost Tribe and One Sith once the Order was fully recovered. It's not about a balance in sheer 'amount of people' terms, though. Who came up with the prophecy? How do we know they were right? The point of the prophecy is that it is fulfilled in the end, but in an ironic reversal. Balance is achieved, but by the total destruction of both sides, the total destruction of the concept of sides and dichotomies and good versus evil. Darth Vader is directly responsible for the deaths of not only the Jedi, but the Sith as well. The 'Jedi' that remain are largely symbolic, completely separate from the people we saw in the prequels. Bear in mind the Sith run themselves in groups of two intentionally. In my opinion, the most balanced game board is the one with no pieces left on it. Good? Evil? Jedi? Sith? These words no longer mean anything. Good triumphing over Evil means nothing, because Evil does not exist. Bear in mind that Palpatine in the prequels represents Democracy at its peak, he is the elected leader of the entire Republic - he embodies the people, and in some ways their need to battle the Other that threatens their comfortable stability. Bad things happen not always simply because there are bad people out there, but because your attempts to respond to perceived evil makes you worse yourself. The very idea of good beating evil is wrong. Also, please don't immediately assume Lucas had no idea what he was doing. That's a failure to read the text.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 15:22
|
|
|
echronorian posted:That 'balance' ends up being the destruction of the institution. Exactly. The Force obviously needs to be read as entirely metaphorical, that is as the very concept of 'metaphor'. It is a universalizing field of potential becomings, entirely virtual and in opposition to the hierarchical institutional structuring found within the film and the strict chronological ordering of the franchise. So then bringing 'balance' to the force is the violent act of disrupting or even destroying those structures and chronology; hence the fluid nature of time and hyperstitional history of the films. The historical past is nothing but a virtual aspect of the present (and vice versa); it is the Force (or Holey Spirit) itself. "Hyperstition is a positive feedback circuit including culture as a component. It can be defined as the experimental (techno-)science of self-fulfilling prophecies. Superstitions are merely false beliefs, but hyperstitions – by their very existence as ideas – function causally to bring about their own reality. Capitalist economics is extremely sensitive to hyperstition, where confidence acts as an effective tonic, and inversely. The (fictional) idea of Cyberspace contributed to the influx of investment that rapidly converted it into a technosocial reality. Abrahamic Monotheism is also highly potent as a hyperstitional engine. By treating Jerusalem as a holy city with a special world-historic destiny, for example, it has ensured the cultural and political investment that makes this assertion into a truth. Hyperstition is thus able, under ‘favorable’ circumstances whose exact nature requires further investigation, to transmute lies into truths. Hyperstition can thus be understood, on the side of the subject, as a nonlinear complication of epistemology, based upon the sensitivity of the object to its postulation (although this is quite distinct from the subjectivistic or postmodern stance that dissolves the independent reality of the object into cognitive or semiotic structures). The hyperstitional object is no mere figment of ‘social constuction’, but it is in a very real way ‘conjured’ into being by the approach taken to it." - Nick Land Griff Lee posted:Darth Vader was a higher mid-ranking SS Lieutenant, a brutally efficient shock trooper who could also command respect among the lower ranking troops and officers. The Christological allusions should continue to be read along heretical lines, in the vein of such works as The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail where the grail is a metaphorical actualization of the Holy Spirit, here read as Luke and Leia. Not only are they repetitions of the same characters (even sharing the delightfully taboo incest narratives), they are at the same time radically different. If Anakin Skywalker and Amidala are the Force, Luke and Leia are as well. It's similar in a way to another of Lucas's stories, The Last Crusade, where after drinking from the Holy Grail, Indiana Jones discovers that he and his father are the same person. Danger fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 15:30
|
|
|
Esroc posted:Nah. Leland Chee is just revising the EU and throwing out certain things to consolidate the overall history so as to make it easier to not conflict with plans for future media. We don't know yet what is being kept and what is being declared non-canon. Once we have the list though, everything that is being kept Disney is elevating to 100% no question canon going forward and plans to take steps to keep the Universe more cohesive and less inconsistent than in the past. Here's a nice article regarding this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/01/op-ed-disney-takes-a-chainsaw-to-the-star-wars-expanded-universe/ Not sure if this has been posted before.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
Boba Fett captured the imagination because here you have all these cool space badasses - a dude all covered up in bandages, Dr. Curt Connors, the bug-man from the black lagoon, and not one, but two killer robots - and none of them merit any individual attention from Darth Vader. Instead, the cyborg-warlock Admiral of the Imperial Navy takes a second to pause, look this mysterious commando dude in straight in the eye, and say directly, "By the way, don't loving disintegrate these guys". And how does Boba Fett respond? He basically shrugs and goes "sure" e: Little did Darth Vader know that every time Boba Fett said "as you wish", what he really meant was "I love you" e3: Oh wait, I was thinking of the cover of Tales of the Bounty Hunters, where he has this weird melty glue thing that I interpreted as the barrel of his gun tin can made man fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 18:00
|
|
|
tin can made man posted:Boba Fett captured the imagination because here you have all these cool space badasses - a dude all covered up in bandages, Dr. Curt Connors, the bug-man from the black lagoon, and not one, but two killer robots - and none of them merit any individual attention from Darth Vader. Instead, the cyborg-warlock Admiral of the Imperial Navy takes a second to pause, look this mysterious commando dude in straight in the eye, and say directly, "By the way, don't loving disintegrate these guys". It also presumably took some sack to take carbonite Han to Jabba and be like, no it's not a statue that only vaguely looks like him, the dude is totally in there, alive and everything! Pay me the full bounty 
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
I always liked to imagine Darth Vader and Boba Fett were once buddies. Like, maybe they flew around the galaxy indiscriminately murdering people for a while. I mean, Darth Vader had to do something in his time off. You can't tell me he spent all his time choking admirals and moping around because of his stupid dead wife.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 18:39
|
|
|
paint dry posted:I always liked to imagine Darth Vader and Boba Fett were once buddies. Like, maybe they flew around the galaxy indiscriminately murdering people for a while. Darth Vader doesn't have any friends that's why he spends all his time in an egg
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Darth Vader doesn't have any friends that's why he spends all his time in an egg I thought that was a toilet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:Why can't we just pretend the prequels never happened? I wish I could go back in time, this is the one thing I would change; nothing other then the original trilogy would have ever come out. And they would never have been updated. So what you're saying is that you'd go back to around 1993 or 94 and kill George Lucas with a shovel?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
'Bosk' is an evil Chewbacca, and 'IG88' is almost literally his guy. (This is the meaning of the gag in Episode 2 where C3PO has his head attached to the wrong body, and gains a taste for blasting 'Jedi dogs'. - There's only a thin line between the heroes and the bounty hunters.) If you've wondered what happened to the separatists, that's them. They've gone underground, no longer part of federations and guilds. And you can read this in reverse, too: the trade federation's various groups are bounty hunters operating on an interplanetary scale. And here it's important to remember that aliens and, especially, robots are Star Wars' ethnic and LGTB minorities. Although Chewbacca is black, the difference between him and Lando is Lando's (relatively) higher social status. Think the aliens in District 9 versus the literal Nigerians. Take note of the Imperial officers' disgust at this racial 'scum' on their bridge, and you can get a better idea of why Vader is always on the verge of being a good-guy champion of the underclass. Boba Fett may be an evil bitch, but that means he's also something of an underdog.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Krowley posted:So what you're saying is that you'd go back to around 1993 or 94 and kill George Lucas with a shovel? Yes, and I will take the blame for it too. No one will understand why, but it will be for the greater good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 00:51
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:Yes, and I will take the blame for it too. No one will understand why, but it will be for the greater good. Everyone would hate you for killing such a legendary genius and robbing us of what would have been some of the greatest movies ever made. If that isn't heroic I don't know what is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
All prints of the evil movie trilogy that inspired a time travelling assassin will be destroyed. Steven Spielberg reverse engineers the technology to go back in time and stop his friend from ever making them. No more Star Wars for anyone. Six more Indiana Jones movies. Happy now?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
Has Disney said anything about releasing original versions of the first three movies? I would assume they would be more than willing to cash in on that, assuming Lucas didn't personally destroy the old masters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Has Disney said anything about releasing original versions of the first three movies? I would assume they would be more than willing to cash in on that, assuming Lucas didn't personally destroy the old masters. Nothing will probably be announced until about six months before episode VII comes out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 01:57 |
|
|
kiimo posted:Everyone would hate you for killing such a legendary genius and robbing us of what would have been some of the greatest movies ever made. Yeah that would be the most amazing thing about it. The whole world would go on thinking the prequels would have been incredible films, and I would be the only one who would know the truth.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 02:11
|
|