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I have no idea how anybody thought Chimera were a good idea.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:51
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RBX posted:I have no idea how anybody thought Chimera were a good idea. Yeah, even DMC3 (which had some really horrible monster designs) came nowhere near the terribleness of chimers Q_Q
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Jan 14, 2014 06:00
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RBX posted:I have no idea how anybody thought Chimera were a good idea. Somebody thought Jokatgulm was an acceptable boss fight so its not even the stupidest decision in the franchise.
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Jan 14, 2014 06:05
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Barudak posted:It has a decent selection of bosses its just you re-see Dante, Ice Frog, Fire Centaur, Plant Snake, and whatever the evil church guys's name is which means out of 7 bosses you see 5 of them twice and makes it feel like the boss list is less interesting. Its a shame because the best boss in the game is one time only and you can only fight him as Nero. If you mean Credo, you can technically fight him as Dante in the bloody palace, but yeah it sucks spending a hour+ of playtime just to get to him (if you even can get that far, I never have.)
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Jan 14, 2014 06:18
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notZaar posted:If you mean Credo, you can technically fight him as Dante in the bloody palace, but yeah it sucks spending a hour+ of playtime just to get to him (if you even can get that far, I never have.) If you're playing the PC version, you can use a trainer called SpoilerAL to jump straight to Credo's (or Dante's) floor. And you can turn off that drat Bloody Palace timer too while you're at it.
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Jan 14, 2014 06:42
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Proto Cloud posted:RE4 came out way out in 2005, there's no reason to do such a comparison when 1-3 already came out before it. Resident Evil games up to that time weren't exactly mindblowing gameplay experiences. Please try to do some research before making such lazy arguments. OM1 and 3 are solid entries for their time and it's just that time hasn't been kind to them. Uh, what? Resident Evil 4's director specifically cited Onimusha as part of the inspiration for RE4. What the hell are you on about? Onimusha wasn't a terrible game or anything but it never had a strong identity. It began, as I said, as literally "Samurai Resident Evil" and it never quite managed to get away from that. It's a shame because I liked Onimusha but it just kind of went to the same place as Dino Crisis. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 06:55
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All the rumors I've heard on the net make RE4's development cycle sound long and crazy. I heard DMC1 was originally supposed to be RE4 but it was too magical or supernatural so they made it into another series. And you know, playing DMC1, I could kinda see that, even if it was only because the music sounded very familiar at points.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:29
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It's more the giant Resident Evil inspirations like insane puzzles, Gothic Architecture, closed hallways fuckin everywhere, and the overall dark atmosphere in Mallet Island. There's a ton of very obvious "This was originally a Resident Evil game during development" stuff inside of DMC1 that you don't see in the following DMC games since they found their identity at that point.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:50
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Barudak posted:It has a decent selection of bosses its just you re-see Dante, Ice Frog, Fire Centaur, Plant Snake, and whatever the evil church guys's name is which means out of 7 bosses you see 5 of them twice and makes it feel like the boss list is less interesting. Its a shame because the best boss in the game is one time only and you can only fight him as Nero. 3 times (board game before the final boss)
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Jan 14, 2014 08:19
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ImpAtom posted:Uh, what? Resident Evil 4's director specifically cited Onimusha as part of the inspiration for RE4. What the hell are you on about? I guess I can see that. Although it is important to remember that even Dino Crisis had some cool things lacking in the RE franchise, like enemies following you through doors, bleeding out, and etc. Mostly I just got so tired of the RE series I prefer almost anything "RE-Like" that isn't actually Resident Evil. Onimusha 1 is such a game. Also I really can't stress enough how much I adore the whole drat soundtrack. I lost my auction to get the first three games on ebay but I did get Onimusha 2 and I hear it's the most like Warlord so I figure I'll enjoy it enough. Onimusha 3 sounds kinda like the RE4 of the Oni series from what I can tell. Just dropped all pretenses and went with "this would be awesome!" as the motivation behind the story. And Dawn of Dreams sounds like it is totally its own thing, which makes people love or hate it.
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Jan 15, 2014 04:34
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Ho was Shadow of Rome, incidentally?
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Jan 15, 2014 04:40
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Both DC and Onimusha had their own unique elements for certain. Dino Crisis 2 was basically the proto-RE4 in that it took the action elements of the previous game and ramped them way the gently caress up. (And I love DC2 for it.) It's just that at the end of the day they were always overshadowed by Resident Evil and never managed to break out on their own. (Dino Crisis 3 being a giant pile of poo poo didn't help that franchise.) In comparison DMC had obvious RE-like elements in the first game but it had its own identity from the first game out there. I think you could pretty reasonable revive Onimusha or Dino Crisis but you'd have to have a solid idea for how to make it stand out. Dino Crisis actually has it a bit easier here in that there aren't exactly a ton of dinosaur-horror games on the market so you could probably come up with something creative and make it stand out just as "the dinosaur game." Making "the samurai game" stand out takes a lot more work. PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Ho was Shadow of Rome, incidentally? Half a pretty fun arena combat game, half a really lovely stealth game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jan 15, 2014 |
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Jan 15, 2014 04:42
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I don't know what it is with this genre and baffling design decisions. DMC has a long history with unfun enemy design, Bayonetta has the loving endless Space Harrier stage, Revengeance is completely unhelpful and has a god awful camera.
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Jan 15, 2014 07:35
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Action games that are free-flowing with nutty combat systems like those three series are very difficult to make. Not only on top of being centered around combos, they are centered around building enemies that you can fight in a multitude of ways, but build them to teach you a central lesson and then make extra weapons with varied movesets, switch out weapons on the fly, etc. There's a lot of stuff that goes into these games, so stuff like that is kind of expected. Not every game is perfect and even something as beloved as DMC3 has half a roster of terrible enemy designs and even poorly paced stages. Revengeance is a problem with them not caring too much about trying to teach you the game because the enemies are built in such a way they should teach you how to work out the mechanics of the game, but the tutorial confuses the poo poo out of people. I dunno about Bayonetta, Platinum just loves the poo poo out of Space Harrier and it makes a return in W101.
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Jan 15, 2014 07:50
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ImpAtom posted:Both DC and Onimusha had their own unique elements for certain. Dino Crisis 2 was basically the proto-RE4 in that it took the action elements of the previous game and ramped them way the gently caress up. (And I love DC2 for it.) It's just that at the end of the day they were always overshadowed by Resident Evil and never managed to break out on their own. (Dino Crisis 3 being a giant pile of poo poo didn't help that franchise.) In comparison DMC had obvious RE-like elements in the first game but it had its own identity from the first game out there. I don't think many games today use the whole warring states period of Japan. At least the ones that come to the west. Half of the reason why they may not be rebooting/making another Onimusha is that the Warring States period is to Japan like WW2 is for the West. Vastly overplayed.
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Jan 15, 2014 12:51
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Well there really isn't much more you can do with Onimusha anyway unless you rebooted it. Nobunaga dead, Hideyoshi dead, that leaves only Tokugawa. He was an rear end in a top hat too though so making him a demon be fair. Kinda weird the games seem to ignore him. Although I didn't think Nobunaga the Lord of Hell was that overplayed. Imp, you made it sound like Demon lord Nobunaga was a common thing?
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Jan 15, 2014 15:23
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NikkolasKing posted:Well there really isn't much more you can do with Onimusha anyway unless you rebooted it. Nobunaga dead, Hideyoshi dead, that leaves only Tokugawa. He was an rear end in a top hat too though so making him a demon be fair. Kinda weird the games seem to ignore him. Nobunaga as demon lord/evil magic king is a really common thing in Japanese media. Like I said: Warring states/Sengoku period? Massively overplayed in Japan. (though then again it was nearly 200 years of history)
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Jan 15, 2014 16:02
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NikkolasKing posted:Well there really isn't much more you can do with Onimusha anyway unless you rebooted it. Nobunaga dead, Hideyoshi dead, that leaves only Tokugawa. He was an rear end in a top hat too though so making him a demon be fair. Kinda weird the games seem to ignore him. Nobunaga in general is ridiculously overused in Japanese games. Pokemon Conquest features him as an antagonist for chrissakes. Chalk me up as a person who thought Onimusha was the worst parts of Resident Evil combined with the worst parts of Devil May Cry. It never played well, the horror and combat never meshed, and that stupid rear end doll in whichever game it appeared was just a time waster.
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Jan 15, 2014 16:31
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I never played Onimusha 2 all the way through, but while I was playing it I always kept wondering why a game with hack n slash mechanics had tank controls.
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Jan 15, 2014 16:51
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Sex_Ferguson posted:I never played Onimusha 2 all the way through, but while I was playing it I always kept wondering why a game with hack n slash mechanics had tank controls. "Resident Evil is popular and we can't change anything from it because we're not 100% sure what people consider important to Resident Evil" basically.
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Jan 15, 2014 16:52
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Sex_Ferguson posted:I never played Onimusha 2 all the way through, but while I was playing it I always kept wondering why a game with hack n slash mechanics had tank controls. Rumor has it the lead designer is afflicted with a disease that prevents him from moving horizontally without first rotating his body. To him, it seems normal and to make him feel accepted nobody at Capcom had the heart to tell him otherwise.
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Jan 15, 2014 16:53
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Dawn of Dreams came out after Resident Evil 4 I think, but I never got to play it. Did they change from the original trilogy's tank controls in that one?
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Jan 15, 2014 17:02
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Dj Meow Mix posted:Dawn of Dreams came out after Resident Evil 4 I think, but I never got to play it. Did they change from the original trilogy's tank controls in that one? It switched up the controls a bit and gave you full camera control but never really did a good job with it.
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Jan 15, 2014 17:20
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Dj Meow Mix posted:Dawn of Dreams came out after Resident Evil 4 I think, but I never got to play it. Did they change from the original trilogy's tank controls in that one? The main problem with Dawn of Dreams was that Capcom could not stop loving with the Western releases of stuff around that time, decided the original Japanese version wasn't hard enough so their answer was to double boss health making every one a horrible slog and halve the red orbs you got so it took ages to power everyone up.
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Jan 15, 2014 17:39
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Sakurazuka posted:The main problem with Dawn of Dreams was that Capcom could not stop loving with the Western releases of stuff around that time, decided the original Japanese version wasn't hard enough so their answer was to double boss health making every one a horrible slog and halve the red orbs you got so it took ages to power everyone up. Which is the main reason I did not use anyone but Soki since gently caress grinding 5 times.
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Jan 15, 2014 17:48
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Barudak posted:Nobunaga in general is ridiculously overused in Japanese games. Pokemon Conquest features him as an antagonist for chrissakes. I would have hoped that a Nobunaga's Ambition crossover would have Nobunaga in it, yes.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:28
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Barudak posted:Nobunaga in general is ridiculously overused in Japanese games. Pokemon Conquest features him as an antagonist for chrissakes. You do realize it's a crossover title with the game series called Nobunaga's Ambition, right?
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Jan 15, 2014 19:36
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You do realize it's a crossover title with the game series called Nobunaga's Ambition, right? Not in the least. I snagged it purely on interest in a Pokemon Strategy game and it had Nobunaga and I was thoroughly flummoxed as to who thought those two flavors should go together.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:41
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Barudak posted:Not in the least. I snagged it purely on interest in a Pokemon Strategy game and it had Nobunaga and I was thoroughly flummoxed as to who thought those two flavors should go together. Koei pitched Pokémon Warriors. Nintendo came back to them with a counter suggestion.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:14
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ImpAtom posted:"Resident Evil is popular and we can't change anything from it because we're not 100% sure what people consider important to Resident Evil" basically. My favourite thing about Resident Evil 4 was that they did understand what was good about Resident Evil, and what needed to change to make the best game they could. I feel the same way about Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, which plays completely differently from the old games, but is unmistakably part of the series. Lords of Shadow feels like a generic medieval fantasy game with token Castlevania elements, which isn't surprising since they went back and forth between being an original game and a Castlevania game several times during development. Not every game in development needs to be shoehorned into an existing IP. For instance, they were clearly on to something when they were designing Resident Evil 4, which then became its own game as Devil May Cry. If they had taken Lord's of Shadow's approach, they would have minimised the new elements such as swordfighting and demonic powers, and created a generic Resident Evil game but in a new setting, while their ideas would have probably gone back into Onimusha. Devil May Cry 2 was also a different game during development, which was made into a DMC game once the first one proved to be popular, although with terrible results.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:40
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That loving Sned posted:My favourite thing about Resident Evil 4 was that they did understand what was good about Resident Evil, and what needed to change to make the best game they could. Yeah, RE4 was exactly what they needed to do. It is pretty much the textbook example of how to reinvigorate a franchise while keeping it recognizable.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:52
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Barudak posted:Nobunaga in general is ridiculously overused in Japanese games. Pokemon Conquest features him as an antagonist for chrissakes. The funny thing is that he's actually the only person in the entire game who has his head screwed on correctly and could honestly considered the real good guy of the game*, he just happens to be a giant raging dickhole about it.  *The main character doesn't count, anyone whose AI is as ragingly assholish as theirs in the postgame chapters cannot be considered a good guy.
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Jan 15, 2014 23:22
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Nobody seems to ever realize RE4 had the exact same controls as the older games. It just had a different camera. And I also never had a problem with tank controls. Seems to me that has always been the silliest complint against classic RE. Maybe it's a bit of an adjustment for all of five minutes but you get used to it very fast. If there is anything to attack about old RE's way of doing things, it's fixed camera angles, which are the real threat of the game and not the zombies. You will be dicked over so many times and it isn't even your fault.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:08
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NikkolasKing posted:Nobody seems to ever realize RE4 had the exact same controls as the older games. It just had a different camera. I was about to say, RE4 uses a very very similar control scheme (run button, 180 command from later REs, and a knife button) but moves the camera angle and changes the gameplay to suit it. Tank controls are murder in early REs because every time you switch screens you have to re-orientate yourself and if something is chasing you oh god.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:11
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NikkolasKing posted:Nobody seems to ever realize RE4 had the exact same controls as the older games. It just had a different camera. No, it had a lot of significant changes. The additional of manual aiming, context-sensitive movement options like jumping, hurdles and cover, and the context-sensitive melee system all contributed heavily to changing how the game played. The camera additions are a big part of it as well of course.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:14
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Resident Evil 4 did tank controls so well you might even forget you were using them. The only problem you might have is going sideways, but most of the enemies are designed to be possible to avoid either by running straight past them, backing up, or deflecting them with a bullet or knife. One of the changes from the trial version was mapping the knife to the L trigger, rather than a grenade. Having access to the knife at all times allowed you to preserve your ammo much more effectively, without needing to go in and out of the inventory to switch weapons. The trial version didn't even have the final inventory system, which was so good that it made managing your inventory actually fun. This is one of the ways they managed to improve the formula, without making it feel like it wasn't a Resident Evil game. They could have just given you an unlimited inventory like Silent Hill, but they chose to do that only for gems and puzzle pieces.
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Jan 16, 2014 01:00
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Out of curiosity, do you all factor in Music into your love for DMC? Resident Evil fans love their games' tunes and even though I outgrew the games, I still like a lot of the songs. Nevertheless, nobody apart from serious RE fans ever compliments the games for their soundtracks. DMC, if the fact it has over a million views on YT for a select few tracks is any indication, seems to be big on the OST. The third game is supposed to have the best soundtrack, right? I'm listening to some songs recommended to me and while the third fight with Vergil's theme is great, the second fight theme is...what the hell was going on there? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 06:20
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NikkolasKing posted:Out of curiosity, do you all factor in Music into your love for DMC? Resident Evil fans love their games' tunes and even though I outgrew the games, I still like a lot of the songs. Nevertheless, nobody apart from serious RE fans ever compliments the games for their soundtracks. What, the one that starts off with the heavily-distorted shredding, has the orchestrals "aahs and oohs", and some double bass pedalling? I like that one the best; it sounds raw as hell and gets me totally pumped. Though I have to admit that most of my fondness for the DMC3 soundtrack is probably Stockholm after all this time. I still believe that Vergil's fight themes are all legitimately great though.
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Jan 16, 2014 07:03
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I know all the words to every DMC3 song by heart. TASTE THE BLOOD TASTE YOUR FATE SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE WITH YOUR HATE
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Jan 16, 2014 07:17
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Pomp posted:I know all the words to every DMC3 song by heart. The fact that I can understand the lyrics to both the brother's battle themes is proof of my brokenness  Seriously though, DMC3's tracks are energetic and really fun to listen to ingame. I was real disappointed in 4 because the tracks were not as good. And holy poo poo, gently caress Nero's theme; it's like the We Built This City of DMC songs. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 07:29
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