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Jerusalem posted:He said Cheese could get out on a high surety bond if he wanted to put up his mother's house, and that Monk could do the same, but Chris had no chance because of the murder warrant. Actually in the final dick move made by Cheese towards Prop Joe, Levy says in the next episode that he got out by putting his uncles house up on surety for 1/3 of his bail. Chris couldn't get out because of the murder charge and Monk couldn't get out due to having way too much weight in his car combined with still being on parole from a prior charge when they caught him.
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Jan 13, 2014 14:28
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grundin posted:Chris couldn't get out because of the murder charge and Monk couldn't get out due to having way too much weight in his car combined with still being on parole from a prior charge when they caught him. Jerusalem posted:
Shame on you, person who picked up the ball when I dropped it, and stuck with this for a year-ish! You're awesome.
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Jan 13, 2014 21:17
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grundin posted:Actually in the final dick move made by Cheese towards Prop Joe, Levy says in the next episode that he got out by putting his uncles house up on surety for 1/3 of his bail. Chris couldn't get out because of the murder charge and Monk couldn't get out due to having way too much weight in his car combined with still being on parole from a prior charge when they caught him. Right, but I was just commenting on what Levy had to say in this episode, and he thought at the time that Monk had a chance of making bail.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:01
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I completely missed your interpretation of the talk between Michael and Snoop. You point out that what Michael's asking, he's actually asking about himself; I thought he was asking those questions because he knew that Snoop knew he always asked those questions, and he was trying to keep her from being suspicious--in short, he didn't want her to know that he knew. Your insight in your write-up makes a lot more sense.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:40
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Jerusalem posted:Right, but I was just commenting on what Levy had to say in this episode, and he thought at the time that Monk had a chance of making bail. Ahhh, gotcha. I'm enjoying the Season 5 write-ups more than any yet, because it's the season I've watched the least. You catch things that I never would have because I doted on the season's weaknesses.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:40
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I've said it before but, say what you want about season 5, but this episode is on par with all the other penultimate episodes (though it's not coincidental that the two worst parts of season 5 have a minimal role in it.) I love that Snoop has to clarify its "Little Big Walter", not "Big Nose Big Walter." The writers must have had a blast coming up with these names. Reminds me of the scene where Bunk tries to look up a guy named "Peanut" and comes up with like 8 pages worth of results (and that's just on the West Side!) Interesting scene with Rawls, Daniels and Steintorf. I had never considered that maybe Steintorf was ordering the stats juked without Carcetti's specific orders. But then again, I watch Carcetti's utterly despicable scene here where he crashes Namond's debate to hype up the bullshit third grade test scores and I think he's fully aware of what he's become at this point, he just has rationalized it as what one has to do to stay/rise in power.(There's also more than a little narcissism going on, as has been present with Carcetti from the start.) I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't know those stats are complete bullshit, and I also think he has to know he can't reform the police department and run for governor at the same time. It should be noted by the way, according to David Simon, Martin O'Malley was doing the exact same thing when he ran for governor (via meaningless mass arrests ala the "quality of life" stuff in season 4) WHILE season 4 of The Wire was filming; some actors on the show actually were arrested in this. I wish I had a link but I swear he said this in one interview (though he didn't draw out the Carcetti parallels since he denies Carcetti is based on O'Malley for some reason.) On another front that scene supports my theory on Rawls, that he could be like Daniels but is ultimately just a pragmatist, always out for himself (the only real way to survive, according to the show's thesis on institutions.) This sets him apart from guys like Burrell and Valchek, who are pure politicians, or guys like Lt. Marimow who are legitimately stupid enough to actually believe the War on drugs/numbers game are working. note that even though it's clear the Mayor is only out for himself now, and doesn't really care about reforming the police anymore, Daniels and Rawls are still on the same page. Of course, Rawls proves the next episode that he's always been about his own advancement but this is the only time we see him disagree with Carcetti, when up to this point he's been happy to be his guy for his own purposes.
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Jan 13, 2014 23:22
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cletepurcel posted:
And Peaches was the equivalent for girls according to the commentary. For those who are watching this streaming.
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Jan 14, 2014 03:47
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In the vain hope of not sounding too mushy, but as the series draws to its conclusion, I just want to say a big thanks to everyone who made this thread possible. Escape Artist and Jerusalem for the recaps, as well as everyone else who contributed one - I really wanted to do the one where Donald Worden had his "type quieter rear end in a top hat" cameo at the start, but was in awe of the work you were all doing. And also to everyone else who contributed to the thread. I think we've managed to dissect pretty much every episode down to its very core, and yet still not really scratched the surface, but it's a fitting thread for the show. Mad props to everyone
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Jan 15, 2014 20:26
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I know it's probably just the way the shot is framed, but does that graffiti seriously say McNulty in the background, or is it just me?
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Jan 15, 2014 21:42
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Spoilers Below posted:I know it's probably just the way the shot is framed, but does that graffiti seriously say McNulty in the background, or is it just me? It could say "McHenry" as in Fort McHenry and the McHenry tunnel in Baltimore. Just a guess though, who knows. Edit: looking closer it definitely looks like a "T", not an "R" so it can't be McHenry. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 15, 2014 |
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Jan 15, 2014 21:45
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It actually says "McNutty"
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Jan 15, 2014 21:49
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A nice little touch in the "My Name Is My Name" scene: when Marlo erupts there is literally no other noise. It's dead quiet until he finishes his rant and only then does the background noise of phones ringing and general office work come back to the fore. A really nice touch to emphasise an already powerful moment.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:53
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It says McNasty. I don't doubt the framing was absolutely deliberate though and I should have commented on it.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:56
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Yeah though S5 is my least favorite season and rightfully regarded as the weakest by most fans, the final 2 episodes are stellar and belong up there with any of the show's best. I watched it live and HBO was letting you watch episodes a week early if you had Comcast On Demand but I seem to recall that they didn't extend that privilege for the final episode and the 2 week wait for it was practically unbearable.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:19
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Yeah. A lot of the fifth season is really loving great. What leaves a sour taste in people's mouths is how extreme the characters acted. I say extreme--and not out of character--because it really isn't out of character for McNulty to get drunk and do something hideous in the name of police work or for Lester, who'd been poo poo on for thirteen years, to take the opportunity to do the same. And it isn't like Simon hadn't used his characters to make a point before, like he did with Bunny and Hamsterdam back in season three. But that said, a lot of the last season just felt off, and I think it was because this was the first season where the plot served the theme instead of the other way around. But all that aside, there's a lot to admire, here at the end. There's Bubs, of course, but there's also Carcetti conceding to the devil on his shoulder, Marlo's ironic victory, Omar's shocking but perfectly acceptable death, and the final gasp of Major Crimes. Speaking of the MCU: the series, in a nutshell, is about the birth, life, and death of the unit. And the fifth season is Major Crimes lying in a hospital on life support. Asbury fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 03:57
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That is a great summary of a season that as a whole Is, I think objectively the worst but contains many of my favorites moments; Bubbles reformation, some of the exchanges between Bunk and McNulty, Omar's death and Marlo's speech spring to mind. E: also the final montage is tied for my favorite with season two.
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Jan 16, 2014 04:15
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You have to admit, Lester and Jimmy losing their jobs after resorting to illegal means to bring down Marlo is pretty much the best way for their arcs to have concluded. I say the failure of the newspaper plot dragged down the season more than the serial killer. The serial killer at least provided some good black humor but not so much the newspaper scenes. I'm not as harsh on Gus as Jerusalem is but let's put it this way, I'd much rather watch a bunch of scenes of Frank Sobotka and his guys telling stories at Dolo's bar than the similar scenes where Gus talks shop with the other editors. (That's a little unfair since the worst newspaper scenes are the ones pitting Gus against the bosses and the world building scenes are more tolerable, but I only say that because it frustrates me that season 2 has a reputation as the "forgettable" season people joke about but season 5 gets ignored when it's objectively the worst one). I maintain that Simon wasn't wrong in focusing attention on the media as his final target but it's frustrating how poorly it was executed.
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Jan 16, 2014 04:19
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Sneaky Fast posted:That is a great summary of a season that as a whole Is, I think objectively the worst but contains many of my favorites moments; Bubbles reformation, some of the exchanges between Bunk and McNulty, Omar's death and Marlo's speech spring to mind. Honestly they could have straight up turned the show into CSI with tits and season 5 would have been worth the admission price for Bubbles' final arc alone. Every scene is brilliant. One little detail I realized when I watched the last episode - Bubbles' sister seems to lets him come up the stairs after the Sunday front page article about him is published. Whether that's related I don't know but it can't have hurt.  Also if you pause the scene where he reads it, you can read the lede and a few other paragraphs I think. I wish the whole article had been a DVD extra.
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Jan 16, 2014 04:25
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The really sad thing is that the MCU, for all the talent involved with it, is pretty much a failure all the way through. Interference, personnel changes, lack of resources etc saw them never really live up to their potential. Perversely, season one sees them have their greatest success and their investigation is actually cut off at the knees and brought to a premature ending. In season 2 they put the shipping can murders into the black but The Greek and all his top guys get away AND Frank Sobotka is killed to boot. In season 3 they "catch" Stringer Bell but he dies before they can get him, and though they do put Avon back behind bars and shut down the Barksdale Organization for good that is only down to Colvin's assistance. Season 4 sees the MCU hollowed out and replaced with idiots, and by season 5 they're working without overtime and get reduced to Freamon and Sydnor, fail to get a conviction on Clay Davis (Bond's fault, but still that's a failure), and only pull off their arrest of the Stanfield Organization's top guys through highly illegal tactics that end up costing them the chance to actually put Marlo behind bars. Sadly, the MCU's greatest successes and the times they are most highly lauded throughout the season come at times when their actions are the least effective, like Daniels blowing the wire on Cheese which allows one of the Majors to close a case on a couple of problematic murders during a time that the top brass was pushing for reduced crime. The MCU never got a chance to actually shine and get the support that they needed and deserved, not once throughout all five seasons. The closest they ever get is when Carcetti promises money and support for high quality policework and then has to throw it all under the bus because of the school budget crisis.
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Jan 16, 2014 04:32
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Yep! And I don't think that's a metaphorical accident. Look at how many young lives in the show get hosed over by institutionalized adults. They shine when they're young (Wallace; Randy), but they're beat down so hard and so often that they never recover. Or they die before that happens. I think the unit itself serves the ongoing theme.
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Jan 16, 2014 04:57
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I got my girl to watch The Wire with me from the beginning around the exact same time this thread popped up and we just finished a few days ago. She simply fell in love with the show and was amazed to realize how corny Dexter's police work reenactments were in comparison. She simply could not stop calling Mike 'Mack Wilds' though and so I had to learn that existed..is it bad I don't hate it?  For me it felt really great to watch the show again for the second time since years and I picked up on SO much I had no clue about the first time. Honestly how did I miss the whole Chris/Mike molested thing, it fills in so many holes instantly and makes the plot so much more convincing. e: my bad we actually started a few weeks ago that's not december 2013 at all! Amateur Saboteur fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 09:38
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Lugaloco posted:A nice little touch in the "My Name Is My Name" scene: when Marlo erupts there is literally no other noise. It's dead quiet until he finishes his rant and only then does the background noise of phones ringing and general office work come back to the fore. A really nice touch to emphasise an already powerful moment. My favorite scene, really. Not many shows would have the patience of having their character never lose their poo poo until the last moment.
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Jan 16, 2014 16:59
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Oh to be young and only on a second re-watch of the Wire 
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Jan 16, 2014 17:39
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DarkCrawler posted:My favorite scene, really. Not many shows would have the patience of having their character never lose their poo poo until the last moment. Breaking Bad comes close with Gus, and yeah, it's pretty drat satisfying when done well.
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Jan 16, 2014 18:44
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I just want to go back to something that has been bugging me a little. Sorry in advance if I don't remember all details here. When Lester and McNulty need some bodies they go to a patrolman that Lester knew, who contacts them first when a report of a body is called in. Lester tells McNulty the patrolmans story, he used to be a detective until one day he had a crime scene, the district commander tried to take control of it from him and he refused to step aside. A few days later he was busted down. And who was the district commander? Rawls of course, always the rear end in a top hat! But here's what bugs me, think back to the scene in season one where Kima got shot. Rawls arrived at the scene and took control like a badass and everybody loved it. But Rawls first words at the Kima shooting weren't "I'm in charge now", they were "What do you need?". It was only after Landsman asked him to that he cleared the crime scene. The Kima shooting scene always showed that although Rawls was an rear end in a top hat, he was also actually good police. But using him in season 5 as the reason the patrolman got busted down takes away from that in my opinion. Not because he wouldn't bust somebody down, but because he wouldn't have created the problem at the crime scene in the first place. The way Lester explained it made it sound like a bumbling Lieutenant messing things up, whereas Rawls was always extremely competent.
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Jan 16, 2014 21:06
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bucketybuck posted:I just want to go back to something that has been bugging me a little. Sorry in advance if I don't remember all details here. I think because "extremely competent" and "total rear end in a top hat" aren't mutually exclusive. Look at McNulty, after all. Rawls may also have learned a thing or two about what makes people work in the intervening years.
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Jan 16, 2014 21:22
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Spoilers Below posted:I think because "extremely competent" and "total rear end in a top hat" aren't mutually exclusive. Look at McNulty, after all. Rawls may also have learned a thing or two about what makes people work in the intervening years. There also may have been some legit(in his mind at least) reason why Rawls felt he needed to take over, but Rawls being Rawls he was just a prick about it.
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Jan 16, 2014 21:32
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I think it can be easily enough explained away as a young Rawls not being as competent as he would be after getting some experience as a commander/administrator. I mean, if I told you in season one that Carver was going to be one of the most effective, pro-active and thoughtful commanders you could hope for in Baltimore, you'd probably just think that this reflected REALLY badly on Baltimore.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:19
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Rawls cares about murders that his institution cares about. He probably didn't give a poo poo about patrolmans' body the same way he could give two shits about "some project friend of the family" but Kima was his own. What's more is the image that reflects back upon him and the entire police force when cops can be shot/killed with impunity. It lowers the effectiveness of everything else if not handled appropriately because on one side you have demoralized, possibly even afraid officers as well as more confident/ brazen criminals. I actually live in a kind of Mr. Rodgers version of The Wire's Baltimore myself (in a different area). I say that because sure there's a lot of drugs, crime, and junkies but nowhere near as intense with murders thank God. When a police got shot downtown a few months ago the force responded by 'cracking heads' the same way the Western boys proceeded to and there have been several times more drug busts and arrests over the following weeks than the entire year before the incident. It's actually much, much harder to even get weed anymore as a direct result haha.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:30
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The important thing to take away from the Kima shooting (as well as the Dozerman shooting later) - a cop being shot is the one moment when all the bureaucratic bullshit comes to a halt, where no self respecting cop can stand by, where it's basically a bigger deal than any other incident. There's negative consequences too with regards to how it plays out to the media, since the Kima shooting directly leads to the Barksdale investigation being cut short and the Dozerman shooting means that Bunk has to waste a whole bunch of time looking for Dozerman's gun (in both instances they sacrifice worthy investigations in the name of some meaningless optics.) still though, when a cop is shot it brings out the best in everyone, including the assholes. Hell, even Burrell has a nice moment initially. And yeah, what the other posters above said, when faced between some random murder and asserting his authority Rawls is going to take the latter every time. It's just different when a cop is shot, where he'll even make time for people he despises with every fibre of his being, like McNulty.
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Jan 16, 2014 23:05
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Basebf555 posted:There also may have been some legit(in his mind at least) reason why Rawls felt he needed to take over, but Rawls being Rawls he was just a prick about it. I got the sense watching it that the patrolman's story wasn't about Rawls loving up a crime scene necessarily, just the principle of it, much like the conflict that got Lester got busted down to the pawn shop unit before the series. I forget the particulars but he wanted to use a witness that was politically connected in some way, the bosses refused to let him, he held firm and then got McNulty'd. He tells McNulty that he didn't actually need the witness to make the case.
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Jan 16, 2014 23:09
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Hmmm, was there a shot of a train stopped, perchance, when Dozerman was shot? There was one when Kima was shot, and it's the only time I can remember. I feel that's an important clue to figuring out the metaphor. David Simon says no one has cracked it yet, last time I checked.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:30
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Wasn't there a quote from one of the sound people where he said they put the train noises in the background whenever the progress of a case was being impeded? That would be it in both instances. The train scene I always think of is Bunk, during one of his drinking scenes with Jimmy, taking a piss on the train tracks and jumping off it just before the train gets there (or maybe it was Jimmy that did it.) There's another one where he stands in front and says "Come and get me." Also of note, of course, is Brother Mouzone's "slow train comin'" quote, his sarcastic assessment of reform. I feel these are probably the most obvious scenes to unpack. It can't just be the trains as representing institutions unless Simon was obtuse on the issue just to gently caress with critics. Train noises are also prominent when Brother Mouzone and Omar have their alley showdown but that might have just been to ramp up the "inner city as the new Wild West" aspect of that scene even further. Though I guess that scene is them getting together and planning the takedown of Stringer, yet another Wire character who tried to fight his institution and lost, so read into that what you will. grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 02:53
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cletepurcel posted:Wasn't there a quote from one of the sound people where he said they put the train noises in the background whenever the progress of a case was being impeded? That would be it in both instances. It was McNulty, and an interesting thing about that scene that I read somewhere is that the train passing by wasn't planned in advance. Dominic West ad-libbed jumping away at the last minute. The train was just a regular train that just happened to be passing by at the time, and behind the scenes the crew was freaking out because they thought West was going to be hit.
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Jan 17, 2014 06:32
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That McNulty train pissing scene is in the first episode of season 1...I watched it last night thinking about starting my second viewing of the series. Great thread everyone. It has been very educational. edit: It's funny how much more sense the first episode makes when you already know who everyone is.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:35
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I just want to through in my thanks to this thread because even though I started watching the show before this thread started it was this thread that actually got me to get off my rear end and plow through the whole thing to join in on the conversation. It's been a good year and it has made me think more about this show. As to this current episode, with Marlo's "my name is my name" scene isn't that him coming to grips with the idea that Omar won? Marlo didn't have him killed and a bounty claimed, Omar got popped by a kid who didn't think Omar was a big deal and the legend went on. What does that leave Marlo with? It leaves him empty and if his name rings out in the street it would be as the new-king being punked by Omar, by a WEAKENED Omar no less.
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Jan 17, 2014 21:43
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:That McNulty train pissing scene is in the first episode of season 1...I watched it last night thinking about starting my second viewing of the series. Yeah, I honestly enjoyed my second run through this show more than the first. I also enjoyed my third. and fourth. and I'm sure I'll love the future ones too, but the second was the best.
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Jan 17, 2014 21:57
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That's the really great thing. Marlo got what Stringer wanted (rubbing shoulders with the Baltimore elite) and Omar got--post mortem--what Marlo wanted (legendary fame).
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Jan 17, 2014 21:58
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Aces High posted:As to this current episode, with Marlo's "my name is my name" scene isn't that him coming to grips with the idea that Omar won? Marlo didn't have him killed and a bounty claimed, Omar got popped by a kid who didn't think Omar was a big deal and the legend went on. What does that leave Marlo with? It leaves him empty and if his name rings out in the street it would be as the new-king being punked by Omar, by a WEAKENED Omar no less. Absolutely, look at his face immediately after he declares that once they get out they're going to spread the word that he didn't know what Omar was saying. You see his face (very subtly) fall into despair because he realizes that A) Nobody will believe it, and B) Even if they do, what does it say about him that he DIDN'T know.
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Jan 17, 2014 22:03
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I think I've watched the entire series 3 times, but individual seasons well into the 5th and 6th times. It's hard to pick a favorite, but I've always been very very fond of Season 1. Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that there is SO MUCH DETAIL in the show that I really pick up on a lot of new stuff with each re-watch. There are few shows that approach the level of density that you'll find in the Wire. One really cool thing that I haven't noticed in other shows is that they script out background and other partially indistinct or off-screen dialogue which is almost always worth listening out for (oftentimes, it is funny). Other David Simon projects do the same thing (Generation Kill for example). Anyway, sometimes this dialogue is hard to pick out in the audio track even if you're listening for it but with subtitles on sometimes you'll get the text. Depends on the CC source. thathonkey fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 00:55
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