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oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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I'm surprised Meltzer put the 04 and 92 Rumbles at 3-star range and the 95 Rumble slightly below them. I thought that 95 Rumble sucked.

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Halloween Jack posted:

Kama! Like Tazz, but a foot taller, and therefore a foot better!

Agreed.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

oldpainless posted:

I'm surprised Meltzer put the 04 and 92 Rumbles at 3-star range and the 95 Rumble slightly below them. I thought that 95 Rumble sucked.

But it was short!

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Having just rewatched all the Rumbles, here are the most problemantic ones:

1988: The first one which is nothing but midcarders being extremely boring. It's a match where charismatic guys like Warrior, Hillbilly Jim and Junkyard Dog would come out, enter the ring, do a big pile of nothing and then just kind of fall out of the ring to no fanfare. Only the last two minutes are worth sitting through.

1991: This was the first one I ever saw as a kid, meaning I loved it then, but revisiting it, it isn't very good. It gave us Bushwacker Luke's elimination and LOD vs. Undertaker, but whatever isn't uneventful is just a big Hogan wankfest. Considering how great they booked Hogan vs. two heel finalists the year before, it sucked that they had Hogan beat Earthquake and Knobbs via "Hulking out and then... Hulking out again."

1994: Everyone remembers this one for Diesel kicking rear end for a while and the double-winner ending, but the rest of this match is completely dire. In-between Diesel's elimination and the final two, you'll be checking your watch and comparing it to the runtime.

1999: This one stinks of Russo. It's overbooked inside and outside the ring. The ring gets cleared every ten minutes. Kane eliminates himself for a nonsense reason. Wrestlecrap just inducted it and gives it a good rundown of what was wrong, but despite its many, many problems, it's still watchable.

2012: This is the Rumble that didn't take itself seriously in any way, such as making almost a third of the roster joke/guest entries. All while deciding that they only had room for one Uso. It also has the only Royal Rumble ending where I completely disagree with the winner in terms of the booking making any sense.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

Where can I read more about the drama of the Monday Night Wars? That's what I grew up on and I want to learn more about it since my understanding is basically the Wikipedia article.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Luigi Thirty posted:

Where can I read more about the drama of the Monday Night Wars? That's what I grew up on and I want to learn more about it since my understanding is basically the Wikipedia article.

The Observer.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003

Gaz-L posted:

The Observer.

The WCW thread on PSP while obviously WCW focused also essentially doubles as the Monday Night War thread and questions about that era often are covered.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


The book Death of WCW is also a good read in that respect. It focuses on the WCW side of the way, natch, but also goes into the WWF stuff that affected them.

Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"


What are the best Rumbles? I haven't seen 2003-2011. I want to watch those, and whatever classic ones that still hold up.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003

Die Laughing posted:

What are the best Rumbles? I haven't seen 2003-2011. I want to watch those, and whatever classic ones that still hold up.

You definitely need to watch 1992 if you haven't yet.

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005

2007 and 2008 are both really good.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
2008 was scientifically proven to be the best Royal Rumble.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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Watch 05 just to see Cena and Batista gently caress up the finish and Vince tear his quad getting in the ring so he has sit on his rear end in the ring.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


I had thought for a long time that the '05 Rumble was the real finish and the only screwup was Vince's quads. It's amazing that so many things went so wrong.

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005

Honestly the screw up makes it better. Both Cena and Batista ended up winning a title that year and went on to be the two biggest faces for the next era. Both of them "winning" the Rumble before it being restarted is a cool moment. Though just letting hem both win ruins the thumbs down moment so good thing Batista was the actual winner.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Die Laughing posted:

What are the best Rumbles? I haven't seen 2003-2011. I want to watch those, and whatever classic ones that still hold up.

Ones that are must-watch:

1990
1992
2001
2003
2004
2004 Smackdown Rumble
2007
2008

Even the Rumbles considered bad are worth a watch.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

I had thought for a long time that the '05 Rumble was the real finish and the only screwup was Vince's quads. It's amazing that so many things went so wrong.
Honestly, minus Vince's quads and also his dignity and self-respect, it's a neat example of making something really cool from something that could have been a real gently caress-up. It kind of planted the idea that 'these two are equals, and they're rocketing to the top at the same time.'

Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

I had thought for a long time that the '05 Rumble was the real finish and the only screwup was Vince's quads. It's amazing that so many things went so wrong.

Yeah, I had no idea that that wasn't the planned finish until years later. Really quick thinking by the refs/the guys yelling in the refs' earpieces about the Raw/Smackdown referees saying that their guy won.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."
If I recall correctly, because they took a couple minutes of stalling to figure out what the gently caress was going on and then whether Vince could stand, they came within about a minute of running over on PPV time (which was why the restart was pretty much one spinebuster and an immediate toss).

AlmightyPants
Mar 14, 2001

King of Scheduling
Pillbug
Why is it that the face tag team is almost always in the far left corner and the heel tag team tends to be in the near right one?

SirDippingSauce
Oct 25, 2012

We're here to interrogate Manly Dan the lumberjack for the murder of wax Stan.
The Foley show tonight was fun and entertaining, and Mick was nice as can be afterwards with a Q&A and mett and greet. The only boos where for a dumbass audience member who asked in what was supposed to be the last question of the session about "What do you think about Chris Benoit not being in the Hall of--" and then a chorus of boos. Mick took another two questions extra as a palate cleaner. Which just leads me to ask why people keep asking about inducting Benoit or showing him on TV or the network more? It's just, drat, if Pete Rose can get banned for life for betting on the Reds, why keep asking about a dude who killed his family?

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755

AlmightyPants posted:

Why is it that the face tag team is almost always in the far left corner and the heel tag team tends to be in the near right one?

I'd imagine it's for the benefit of the Face in Peril and his partner to always be in the hard camera's sight.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?

SirDippingSauce posted:

The Foley show tonight was fun and entertaining, and Mick was nice as can be afterwards with a Q&A and mett and greet. The only boos where for a dumbass audience member who asked in what was supposed to be the last question of the session about "What do you think about Chris Benoit not being in the Hall of--" and then a chorus of boos. Mick took another two questions extra as a palate cleaner. Which just leads me to ask why people keep asking about inducting Benoit or showing him on TV or the network more? It's just, drat, if Pete Rose can get banned for life for betting on the Reds, why keep asking about a dude who killed his family?
Because to a lot of people were fans of Benoit and to see him completely erased from WWE for the longest time just feels wrong to some people.

Hockles
Dec 25, 2007

Resident of Camp Blood
Crystal Lake

I doubt they put this much thought into it, but I remember reading an article about subtexts in movies, and the "good guys" are always going from left to right.

Blasmeister
Jan 15, 2012




2Time TRP Sack Race Champion

Gavok posted:

Ones that are must-watch:

1990
1992
2001
2003
2004
2004 Smackdown Rumble
2007
2008

Even the Rumbles considered bad are worth a watch.



wait, were there seperate RAW/Smackdown rumbles in 2004? How did that work?

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world

Fallen Rib

Blasmeister posted:

wait, were there seperate RAW/Smackdown rumbles in 2004? How did that work?

Since Benoit won the Rumble and got the Raw title match, they had a second one on SmackDown a couple weeks later for the WWE Title Shot. It was on an episode of SmackDown. I haven't seen it in years, but I remember it was a hell of a match.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Yeah. Benoit was on Smackdown and used the Rumble win as a loophole to challenge for Triple H's title on Raw and jump ship. On the first Smackdown after the Rumble, Heyman decided to make due by doing a 15-man Royal Rumble of just Smackdown guys where the winner would face Lesnar at No Way Out. It was a really good match and worth looking up on YouTube.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

Gavok posted:

The book Death of WCW is also a good read in that respect. It focuses on the WCW side of the way, natch, but also goes into the WWF stuff that affected them.

Aha, this is exactly what I'm looking for. And it's 9 bucks on my Kindle too.

Tyma
Dec 22, 2004

Chwyldro Dawnsio Dawns

jeffersonlives posted:

If I recall correctly, because they took a couple minutes of stalling to figure out what the gently caress was going on and then whether Vince could stand, they came within about a minute of running over on PPV time (which was why the restart was pretty much one spinebuster and an immediate toss).

Apparantly, they were scrambling around backstage for a few minutes looking for Eric Bischoff, before Vince just got up and marched out there himself, without his music, or even a microphone. I don't think he even says anything, as the ring announcer just arbitrarily decides that the match should continue?

Diabolik900
Mar 28, 2007

Vince didn't get on the microphone, but he definitely talked to the referees while he was out there. I'm sure he was the one who made the call and not the ring announcer.

Also I never knew that that was a gently caress-up until reading it here. They handled it pretty drat well, and Vince tearing his quads was the only part that is obviously unplanned.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Luigi Thirty posted:

Aha, this is exactly what I'm looking for. And it's 9 bucks on my Kindle too.

I guess you already bought it, but there is a newer version of Death of WCW coming out.

Unless it's already out? I dunno, I haven't heard Alvarez talk about it in a while.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Gavok posted:

Yeah. Benoit was on Smackdown and used the Rumble win as a loophole to challenge for Triple H's title on Raw and jump ship. On the first Smackdown after the Rumble, Heyman decided to make due by doing a 15-man Royal Rumble of just Smackdown guys where the winner would face Lesnar at No Way Out. It was a really good match and worth looking up on YouTube.

The end of the Rumble is on the No Way Out DVD, which is worth picking up for the Eddie/Brock match anyway.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Keep bustin'

triplexpac posted:

Didn't Kama beat the Undertaker once?
I don't think it happened during their 1995 feud, but he did get a clean pin on Undertaker in the match where Ahmed Johnson joined The Nation.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Minidust posted:

I don't think it happened during their 1995 feud, but he did get a clean pin on Undertaker in the match where Ahmed Johnson joined The Nation.

Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. Anyway, that means of course he's better than Taz. Who'd Taz ever beat??

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
Tajiri, a million times. Tazmanian devils are immune to Japanese venom.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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I remember reading that Taz went like a year and a half without ever losing in ECW. Is that true?

Cardboard Box
Jul 14, 2009

I don't know if it was a year and a half but yeah, once he came back from his neck injury as Taz he rarely lost and, especially in the first year, often wrestled short matches where he choked people out quickly with his finish.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
Yeah, that was when they repackaged him as a "shoot fighter" at a time when people had a hazy idea of what that meant.

Bad Wolf
Apr 7, 2007
Without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometime !

Tyma posted:

Apparantly, they were scrambling around backstage for a few minutes looking for Eric Bischoff, before Vince just got up and marched out there himself, without his music, or even a microphone. I don't think he even says anything, as the ring announcer just arbitrarily decides that the match should continue?

The funniest thing to me was that they announced the match would be restarted. I thought it would have been great if an overly optimistic Eddie Guerrero had come out at that point, assuming they'd start the whole thing over again.

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Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.
Didn't Jerry Lawler "predict" that the 1995 Rumble would again have two winners (like '94), and Vince promises on-air that it'll never happen again?

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