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Tae posted:Spirits? What spirits? Sorry, I meant the Bonus Teams, Items, Maps, and Challengers. Can none of them be done until after the final chapter opens up then? If not, then is there a point where I should look into doing them all or is there no point at which I will miss out on anything if I leave them for another chapter?
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Jan 19, 2014 05:12
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Artificer posted:Sorry, I meant the Bonus Teams, Items, Maps, and Challengers. Can none of them be done until after the final chapter opens up then? If not, then is there a point where I should look into doing them all or is there no point at which I will miss out on anything if I leave them for another chapter? Only the maps are locked out, everything else is free game anytime.
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Jan 19, 2014 05:17
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Artificer posted:Sorry, I meant the Bonus Teams, Items, Maps, and Challengers. Can none of them be done until after the final chapter opens up then? If not, then is there a point where I should look into doing them all or is there no point at which I will miss out on anything if I leave them for another chapter?
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Jan 19, 2014 05:22
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Endorph posted:There's nothing *to* miss out on. The Bonus Maps are the one thing, the items are just random equipment that you could get anyway, and the bonus teams are just completely generic units from past FE games. A neat little nod, but they have no dialogue or anything. Well poo poo. I'll try the bonus maps then, but I'm a little disappointed at everything else then.
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Jan 19, 2014 05:24
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Yeah Frederick has ridiculous OCD but I'd say he's pretty sane overall. He still has eccentricities that make him interesting though, which is why I like him even though he usually acts as the calm and collected voice of reason. Laurent is basically always completely serious and organized, so he just comes across as dull.Manatee Cannon posted:I'd have liked more unique parent or sibling conversations, personally. Morgan and Lucina are especially bad about that. Also more for the spotpass characters! Yeah I get why the sibling conversations were basically all the same but they could of been really interesting. I mean when Morgan is a Manakette you'd expect the dialogue to be pretty different but its more or less the same. Plus Yarne freaking out about being the last member of his species is extra dumb when his sister is standing right next to him.
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Jan 19, 2014 07:11
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Fire Emblem: Awakening is a pretty poorly written game even by the standards of video game writing EDIT: Even by your normal Fire Emblem I'd say Sex Beef 2.0 fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 07:27
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The sheer scope of available support conversations in the game already made it kind of hard to do anything with the main characters, but your character in particular being able to marry anyone just completely fucks thing up. To really pull it off the script would have had to be exponentially bigger, and probably have multiple branching paths depending on who/when/what your character married (as well as who Chrom married, and who Frederick married, and who Lissa married, and who Lucina is dating, etc) so I think we can all understand why they just gave up and went for being as generic as possible. Still a total shame nobody even bats an eye if you marry Tiki though. EDIT: V The issue is that supports don't have an effect on the plot though. Why does Chrom's wife barely play a role in his actions? Why does your wife/husband almost never interact with you? There are a lot of moments in the story where Chrom and the avatar have chats that probably would have been more meaningful with their spouses, but since the writers don't know who (or if, in the case of the avatar) they married they have to settle for just those two. Avatar's having existential issues? Well I guess they could talk to the person they have sworn to live the rest of their lives wit- nah let's go bug Chrom. And that's not even getting into the classic "after these characters are recruited, they vanish from the face of the plot entirely", which is a much more blatant (and even more understandable) case of the writers not wanting to go through the trouble of building a massive story with multiple branches depending on who is alive or not at a given time. Even if you kept the same barebones plot, if Awakening had put in the effort of integrating its sprawling support system, I think a lot of people would be a lot less down on it. A ton of nifty personal moments between the characters in your army (like that great scene with Lucina and the Avatar where the writers did go the extra mile to change it depending on the relationship) would easily make up for the plot just falling apart after the first act. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 09:19
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Not really. Supports have never had any effect on the plot (even Chrom doesn't need any supports and the game just carries on), if they'd have given even a little nod to weird stuff like Morgan being a bunny girl or whatever it would be nice. Like six extra supports for Morgan would have done it (Chrom, Lucina, Nah, Panne, Yarne, and you could get away with a generic dragon mom support considering there's three ways it could happen). You'd think they'd redress this in the scramble DLC, it'd be the perfect time to give a nod to Tiki marrying the avatar of her exact opposite or whatever weirdness eugenics have put Morgan through. But nope, gotta get those bathing suit/kimono scenes in. 
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Jan 19, 2014 09:28
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Sex Beef 2.0 posted:Fire Emblem: Awakening is a pretty poorly written game even by the standards of video game writing Manatee Cannon posted:You'd think they'd redress this in the scramble DLC, it'd be the perfect time to give a nod to Tiki marrying the avatar of her exact opposite or whatever weirdness eugenics have put Morgan through. But nope, gotta get those bathing suit/kimono scenes in. what I wanna know is how exactly do Taguel work? Since Human + taguel results in a taguel, and human ＋half-Taguel also results in a Taguel, how far down does this rabbit hole go? The Taguel are a nod to Laguz, but in FE9/10 a Laguz＋HUman couple produced A kid that had traits of both. Endorph fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 09:52
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I think you can probably explain that if you take the timeline into account. If you put FE9/10 at the beginning, that means they eventually forced their animal forms into stones, like Gotoh said in FE1. That probably just messed with their potential powers, and changed the rules. (The real reason is of course that they didn't really care but eh)
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Jan 19, 2014 09:59
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It works how it does. You shouldn't think too hard about it because Intelligent Systems sure isn't, and you'll just run into contradictions like Roy and Avatar/Nah Morgan.
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Jan 19, 2014 10:04
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The problem with supports is that you have to plan around the fact that they can be accessed at any point after the two characters involved join. So sure, it would be nice if you had like Avatar/Noire have an effect in the plot, but it would be a pain in the rear end to do that for every drat character and figure out which chapters to make it matter in. Personally, I'd rather take the ability to support everyone and get a little bit of fluff and backstory, over being limited to X supports, but all those supports being referenced in game. Even the fact that Awakening forces Chrom to marry off by the end of the first act really annoys me. To me, supports are for padding out the universe and adding depth to the characters, if they have anything to do with the main plot, it should be like how FE7 handled Renault, where it provides a lot more backstory to the main plot, without being required to understand what's going on at all. Edit: I actually forgot about 9/10's base conversations when I was writing this. If you absolutely have to have characters having plot relevant conversations, that would be my vote for the best way to handle it. It gives you the freedom to have your lesser characters get some lines after they've been recruited, and adds to the story in a non-intrusive way. Just don't bury rewards in a multi-step conversation (loving triangle attack with Oscar/Boyd/Rolf). poorlywrittennovel fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 10:32
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Sex Beef 2.0 posted:Fire Emblem: Awakening is a pretty poorly written game even by the standards of video game writing I don't know, that's a pretty tall order. I did not like the game's story, but there have been worse written games. edit: I know people like them, but I feel like the whole support system is fundamentally flawed for reasons like above. I think 9/10's convo system worked better because they were plot dependent and even allowed for more than two characters to talk with each other.
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Jan 19, 2014 10:33
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The problem with the supports is that most of them just aren't that compelling because of how little the cast is integrated into the main plot, how barebones and half-assed the world-building is, and because of how the marriage mechanics and the free-form anytime, anywhere no-restrictions gently caress with the basic writing. This all leads to the writers relying on each character's stupid personality quirk as a crutch for padding things out which only worsens matters. I'd definitely go with FE9's format as the best current solution.
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Jan 19, 2014 10:47
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Perfect Potato posted:The problem with the supports is that most of them just aren't that compelling because of how little the cast is integrated into the main plot, how barebones and half-assed the world-building is, and because of how the marriage mechanics and the free-form anytime, anywhere no-restrictions gently caress with the basic writing. This all leads to the writers relying on each character's stupid personality quirk as a crutch for padding things out which only worsens matters.
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Jan 19, 2014 10:49
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Honestly at this point with 90% of my primary team coupled up already while also being quite overleveled for their missions, I wish there was an easier and simpler way of pairing up characters. I want to see all of the supports without having to spend hours with reeking boxes in underleveled areas dammit. I paired a lot of my main team with people that would make sense with each other (Riken - Lissa, for instance) but sometimes I just want to see what happens when I pair Riken with, say, Tharja. I wish there was a way to see the supports for those too.
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Jan 19, 2014 11:13
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Perfect Potato posted:The problem with the supports is that most of them just aren't that compelling because of how little the cast is integrated into the main plot, how barebones and half-assed the world-building is, and because of how the marriage mechanics and the free-form anytime, anywhere no-restrictions gently caress with the basic writing. This all leads to the writers relying on each character's stupid personality quirk as a crutch for padding things out which only worsens matters. You may want to replay FE9 if you don't think the cast was defined by 'the one quirk they had.' Except they had even less development in a lot of cases. Fire Emblem always has fairly light character development because 90% of the cast can permadie once they join you. That leads to characters being lightly defined unless they are plot-heavy characters who game over/'get wounded' when death occurs. Supports and occasionally side-missions are how the characters get fleshed out because that is where you can be assured the character is alive. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 11:15
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Artificer posted:Honestly at this point with 90% of my primary team coupled up already while also being quite overleveled for their missions, I wish there was an easier and simpler way of pairing up characters. I want to see all of the supports without having to spend hours with reeking boxes in underleveled areas dammit. I paired a lot of my main team with people that would make sense with each other (Riken - Lissa, for instance) but sometimes I just want to see what happens when I pair Riken with, say, Tharja. I wish there was a way to see the supports for those too. There are support transcripts out there - there's one on GameFAQs as well as individualized ones on the Fire Emblem wiki.
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Jan 19, 2014 11:22
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To be fair, FE9 at least gave some of the non plot critical characters a decent amount of characterization in the 'main' story. Most of the Greil Mercs get a decent amount of spotlight in the early going, and Jill gets some focus while you're in Daein. EDIT: Also turn off combat animations and turn on the skip enemy actions buttons if you want to grind supports quickly. It'll take you like six minutes tops to go from zero to S. Just make sure your characters are strong enough that the enemies pose literally no threat to them.
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Jan 19, 2014 12:06
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ImpAtom posted:You may want to replay FE9 if you don't think the cast was defined by 'the one quirk they had.' Except they had even less development in a lot of cases. And Awakening, unlike most of them, tends to give almost everyone at least one bit that isn't their one quirk. Usually more. I mean, even Laurent (THE WORST) has the S Rank with Noire to give him something other than being boring. Compare to Fire Emblem 6, where half the cast didn't even have gimmicks. Or 1,2,3,5 and 10, where the cast mostly didn't get any development at all except an ending slide. Main plot (after the first arc, which was a pretty well executed spin on the default Fire Emblem narrative) has some faults, but overall the writing in this one's about as good as the series gets.
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Jan 19, 2014 12:25
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Eh, most characters in other FE games get a beat or two that isn't their quirk as well. FE13 has more supports and ergo the characters have more chances to try and be three dimensional, but even Ilyana in FE9/10 has her battle dialogues with Micaiah and Zihark.
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Jan 19, 2014 12:56
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I've just started FE12 using the translation patch, I've never played Awakening and the Reclassing mechanic is all new to me. Do characters suffer for being changed from their original class? Just because being able to pick and choose classes will greatly help with my draconian No Mounted Units and No Stupid Hair Colours policy.
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Jan 19, 2014 13:08
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Vitamin P posted:I've just started FE12 using the translation patch, I've never played Awakening and the Reclassing mechanic is all new to me. Do characters suffer for being changed from their original class? Nope, they don't really. Classes all have different caps and growths, but you can look those up on serenes.
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Jan 19, 2014 13:24
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Vitamin P posted:No Mounted Units But nah. Heck, certain characters do much better in classes besides their default, like Draug in being an amazing Dark Mage. At least, he was in FE11, iunno if he still is in FE12. For the record, your unit limits are based on how many units you have with that as their 'default' class, +1. So for instance you can only have one mage until you get a unit who actually started as a mage, then you can have 2, etc.
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Jan 19, 2014 13:29
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Artificer posted:Honestly at this point with 90% of my primary team coupled up already while also being quite overleveled for their missions, I wish there was an easier and simpler way of pairing up characters. I want to see all of the supports without having to spend hours with reeking boxes in underleveled areas dammit. I paired a lot of my main team with people that would make sense with each other (Riken - Lissa, for instance) but sometimes I just want to see what happens when I pair Riken with, say, Tharja. I wish there was a way to see the supports for those too. The grinding DLC is really good for supports since it lets you easily build up supports without messing with levels, assuming the person you're trying to support isn't part of your main team. It is annoying that there isn't really a good way to do it ingame though. The friendship seed thins being more common could of helped. What you really don't have any way to easily see ingame are the unique conversations for parents and their kids in the Future Past DLC, which sucks since a lot of those are really neat. Also Ricken/Tharja basically goes like this; "Hey lets cast magic together!" "No, lets cast EVIL magic together!" "uhhhh okay!"
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Jan 19, 2014 18:14
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Artificer posted:Honestly at this point with 90% of my primary team coupled up already while also being quite overleveled for their missions, I wish there was an easier and simpler way of pairing up characters. I want to see all of the supports without having to spend hours with reeking boxes in underleveled areas dammit. I paired a lot of my main team with people that would make sense with each other (Riken - Lissa, for instance) but sometimes I just want to see what happens when I pair Riken with, say, Tharja. I wish there was a way to see the supports for those too. You could just summon legacy teams from the spotpass menu and not spend any money at all. It'd be nice if they worked in every difficulty like they do in Lunatic and only give you one experience per kill so you could get some support ranks without power leveling.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:20
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Momomo posted:I don't know, that's a pretty tall order. I did not like the game's story, but there have been worse written games. Uhh I don't see any reason one couldn't have both supports and base conversations. Other then it being a massive amount of writing.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:24
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That's what I was thinking, if I could choose between more substantial base convos and supports, I'd like to see them try the former. They couldn't really be used to replace supports mechanically though, since supports are flexible and base conversations aren't, so I'm not really sure what would fix that. Maybe just a focus on the army as a whole bonding instead of two people at a time, I guess.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:42
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Tae posted:The Female Avatar is a troll, Male Avatar is a boring guy, Stahl is a sane guy, Frederick is full-on OCD who literally doesn't know how to relax and had to take lessons from Lissa. Male Avatar makes up for it though by Female Morgan being the biggest troll in the game.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:44
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Easy: Unlock a base scene if each character involved meets a certain (varying) threshold of deployments.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:46
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The problem with that is, what if you miss the requirements, do you just miss out on that conversation entirely? That wouldn't be very fun, and supports don't have that problem.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:56
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I just got Olivia and I wasn't able to do anything much with her during the chapter in which I acquired her. Even paired up with Gregor like I had planned, she does no damage and as much as her dancing is nice, her complete lack of combat damage or sustainability makes her a liability. Any ideas on how I can train her up?
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Jan 19, 2014 20:03
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Reclass her as soon as you can, Dancer is pretty much useless. She can be a Myrmidon or a Pegasus Knight, both of which have good skills and stats that suit her. Or you could just dance and turn over until she's level capped. You really shouldn't be using a Dancer as a combat unit.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:09
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Artificer posted:I just got Olivia and I wasn't able to do anything much with her during the chapter in which I acquired her. Even paired up with Gregor like I had planned, she does no damage and as much as her dancing is nice, her complete lack of combat damage or sustainability makes her a liability. Any ideas on how I can train her up? She's one of the easiest people to grind levels with, just have her dance with people at the back of the map for a bit. She's got some good promotion options too, Swordmaster and Dark Pegasus Knight both own.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:09
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She's a Dancer, the best class in any Fire Emblem. Just level her up with Dances and she'll become dodgy enough to be fine.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:11
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Manatee Cannon posted:Reclass her as soon as you can, Dancer is pretty much useless. She can be a Myrmidon or a Pegasus Knight, both of which have good skills and stats that suit her. Or you could just dance and turn over until she's level capped. You really shouldn't be using a Dancer as a combat unit. Dr Pepper posted:She's a Dancer, the best class in any Fire Emblem. Why do you two think the way that you do?
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Jan 19, 2014 20:12
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Dancers are cool because they basically let your best unit be twice as good, or if you're in a tight spot, they can let your healer heal extra people, or help someone in a bad spot retreat, or whatever. They have a lot of utility that nobody else has, though they're not great at combat.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:16
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A Dancer lets you rake your best unit, and let's them move twice. This is pretty crazy powerful.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:17
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Problem is, Dancers aren't usually survivable enough to allow putting them in harm's way, so it's hard to reuse a good unit if that unit is near a bunch of foes. FE4 Dancers and the Heron Laguz compensated for being weak by refreshing four units, and Nils and Ninian were unhittable (and had a few buffs, which were useful at time), but overall, Dancers are not taht great.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:20
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Wind God Sety posted:Dancers are cool because they basically let your best unit be twice as good, or if you're in a tight spot, they can let your healer heal extra people, or help someone in a bad spot retreat, or whatever. They have a lot of utility that nobody else has, though they're not great at combat. A lot of people have that utility in Awakening with Galeforce. There's never any win conditions besides route or kill the commander, so there's no fancy shenanigans you can get up to with your Dancer. It's better to just have someone you can actually use in a fight or as a pair up partner. There's just never an instance where having a Dancer changes much anything. Either way you want to go with Olivia though, seriously, don't use your Dancer as a combat unit.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:35
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