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Shwqa posted:C'mon man put a link for us super lazy people.. You mean like the one JohnnyCanuck did only two pages ago? This one, perhaps: I swear, kids these days! 
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Jan 23, 2014 08:16
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After Belkar dies someone with a stiffer back should go through the thread and collect all the "it's entirely obvious Belkar will die here" predictions. Also the fate of Durkula, though to be honest I don't think we have enough to go by yet.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:20
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jng2058 posted:You mean like the one JohnnyCanuck did only two pages ago? This one, perhaps:  oops I missed it. I even checked one page back. Sorry about that.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:12
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jng2058 posted:Good gravy, there's a new strip and all anyone does is On the one hand, Geoff being a traitor is clearly a thing. On the other hand, Tarquin being taken down by a bunch of side-characters is perfect for his narrative arc. We might be keeping tabs on these guys as the next plot progresses. Edit: Actually, looking at how that scene was set up, they might not be taking Geoff with them.
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Jan 23, 2014 13:15
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and go back to the good and evil debate? In the Beyond Good and Evil thread, no less? And no one bothered to mention how hosed the new resistance is as they still have Ian The Traitor in it?|
Wait, who's a traitor for what now?
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Jan 23, 2014 13:43
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I am a vampire who had a stroke irl btw and I find this discussion of whether I'm the same person offensive.
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Jan 23, 2014 14:09
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Lurdiak posted:Wait, who's a traitor for what now? I don't remember where the reasoning came from, but it was pretty convincing that Geoff, they guy with the wooden leg, is selling out Haley's dad, possibly on Bozzok's behalf. It'd explain why their various escape attempts were always foiled, despite being master thieves.
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Jan 23, 2014 14:16
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greatn posted:I am a vampire who had a stroke irl btw and I find this discussion of whether I'm the same person offensive. Well godsdammit, why don't you tell us if you are the same person IRL and settle the argument?
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Jan 23, 2014 14:27
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greatn posted:I am a vampire who had a stroke irl btw and I find this discussion of whether I'm the same person offensive. Die monster. You don't belong in this world. 
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Jan 23, 2014 14:40
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I don't buy that Durkula is a completely different person that no longer cares about or has any ties to the Order. He's Durkon without any of the Good bits, without mercy or empathy for his enemies. But I don't understand how you guys can read this comic that went to such absurd lengths to drive home the fact that Evil people can work well and even be friends with others and toss all of that subtext out and go  Durkula is plotting to kill them all!!There'll likely be some contention down the way, but not because Durkula kills and raises Belkar as a thrall or anything equally retarded.
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Jan 23, 2014 15:19
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Spiderdrake posted:After Belkar dies someone with a stiffer back should go through the thread and collect all the "it's entirely obvious Belkar will die here" predictions. Also the fate of Durkula, though to be honest I don't think we have enough to go by yet. This would take forever since there were at least three to five every update for a couple hundred updates.
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Jan 23, 2014 15:20
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Does Durkula know of Belkar's prophecy?
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Jan 23, 2014 15:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:Not quite. We already know from Malack that it works that way, the finer details are irrelevant. The comic has made it clear in no uncertain terms that a vampire and the person they used to be are two different entities. No we don't, that's a possible interpretation of what Malack said but what Malack said isn't a clear mechanical description of what's up. Malack posted:I had a different name when I was alive 200 years ago. I was the ignorant barbarian shaman of a tribe that no longer exists. Bringing me back alive is a complicated way of annihilating the person I am today. At best we only know what Malack feels that the process will destroy who he is, not that there's a demon inside him or if he's only a facsimile of the person he once was. He certainly feels he's him, the him of 200 years of living his current undead life. Usually the comic is much more clearer when describing mechanically of whats what, this seems something deliberately vague so Rich is free to do what he feels makes for a better story. Malack may not know the precise mechanics either, Durkon's failed his Knowledge Religion checks before.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:No we don't, that's a possible interpretation of what Malack said but what Malack said isn't a clear mechanical description of what's up. Yeah I thought Malack's point was that people are their experiences and memories and that reversing 200 years of his 'life' would be 'a complicated way of killing the person I am now'. Given a major theme of the comic is the conflict between free-will and the setting having 'innate' and objective morality the obvious interpretation is that it is supposed to be ambiguous and not clear cut.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:04
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What I got out of it was that a resurrection would reset Malack to who he was just before he was made a vampire. So the person that he had grown to become over those 200 years would be gone. Not that he had instantly become the Malack he was the moment he was made a vampire. -edit- Beaten
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Jan 23, 2014 17:06
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That's pretty much verbatim what he said, so I don't think there was any confusion about that. And the question is not even really about vampires, its just another alignment debate at its core: What exactly does a forcible alignment shift do?
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Jan 23, 2014 17:57
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greatn posted:I am a vampire who had a stroke irl btw and I find this discussion of whether I'm the same person offensive. Yes, but would you have found it offensive before you had a stroke and/or were cursed to live off the blood of mortals, forever shunning the cleansing light of the sun?
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Jan 23, 2014 18:07
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View it like being extreme shifted bipolar.  You have a state in which you do regrettable things that you have no control over, and a state in which you are lucid and uh.. have a soul. You're the same person, just in drastically different states. And it only switches with resurrections and vampire bitin'.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:12
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Honestly just view it as if the person retains all memories but gets a totally new driver behind the wheel who is evil and drinks blood, etc. If Vamp Durkon gets killed and Durkon raised (assuming he even agrees to come back instead of partying up with Thor for eternity) he'll be the same as he was back in the pyramid. In Malack's case he would have been the same as some random snake shaman peasant living two hundred years ago, the person with most of the memories and experiences whom Durkon knew would be gone.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:39
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jng2058 posted:Good gravy, there's a new strip and all anyone does is It was worth a shot 
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Jan 23, 2014 18:44
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I'm not really seeing the problem with people, in a thread dedicated to discussing a comic, discussing the evolution of one of the primary characters. Having people speculate about what could happen ("how hosed the new resistance is") strikes me as distinctly less interesting than discussing what has already happened to Durkon. If you disagree, just post about the thing you like, nobody is stopping you.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:49
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Sir Kodiak posted:I'm not really seeing the problem with people, in a thread dedicated to discussing a comic, discussing the evolution of one of the primary characters. Having people speculate about what could happen ("how hosed the new resistance is") strikes me as distinctly less interesting than discussing what has already happened to Durkon. If you disagree, just post about the thing you like, nobody is stopping you. It's more a fact that we've been having this conversation basically verbatim since Durkon was vamped in 878, and again since Malack was killed in 907. 30+ comics past the latter one, the only additional information we have is "Belkar is the only one who has a problem with Durkon", so it seems silly to keep beating on this horse which is not only dead, but has been rendered down to glue and used to bind some of the Kickstarter book rewards. But maybe that's just me. v  v
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Jan 23, 2014 18:57
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Well, we just learned that he pretends to still get spells from Thor, while the real Durkon would never lie by omission to his best friend Roy, and he also didn't seem to have an accent when attacking Laurin. That's new info!
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Jan 23, 2014 19:54
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Tenebrais posted:I don't remember where the reasoning came from, but it was pretty convincing that Geoff, they guy with the wooden leg, is selling out Haley's dad, possibly on Bozzok's behalf. It'd explain why their various escape attempts were always foiled, despite being master thieves. That's a really lovely gig he's got there, if true.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:49
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Alchenar posted:Yeah I thought Malack's point was that people are their experiences and memories and that reversing 200 years of his 'life' would be 'a complicated way of killing the person I am now'. It would be, if not for the fact that becoming a Vampire forces your alignment to Evil. Key word, forces. There is no slow evolving viewpoint type thing going on. It is a different person.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:59
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Kajeesus posted:Well, we just learned that he pretends to still get spells from Thor, while the real Durkon would never lie by omission to his best friend Roy, and he also didn't seem to have an accent when attacking Laurin. That's new info! He never said he got his spells back from Thor, or who he got them from, because it's not important.
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Jan 23, 2014 23:27
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Captain Oblivious posted:It would be, if not for the fact that becoming a Vampire forces your alignment to Evil. Key word, forces. There is no slow evolving viewpoint type thing going on. It is a different person. Which is entirely different i.e, no different from wearing a helm of opposing alignment, from the various "What happens to someone's soul when they get vamp'd?" speculatory posts that have happened passed as fact. I could state that Durkon now, due to the negative energy that keeps him 'alive' is now prone to evil acts and has less restraint would have just as much validity because we do not know what happens. Only that he is now Possibly Durkon but also Lawful Evil.
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Jan 23, 2014 23:33
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Xykon was already evil when he became a lich, but he still went through a bit of a personality change regardless. That undead body Durkula wears might as well be alien as a xenomorph. The way it affects his senses, the way it affects his hungers and his pre-existing feelings towards undead are determining the type of character he'll become now that he's a vampire. whomever he prays to now will probably further influence him on top of all this when they commune. edit: Haha, thanks vvvvvvvvvv Bell_ fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 03:11
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Bell_ posted:Zykon
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Jan 24, 2014 05:00
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So let's say Malack was resurrected. Would that peasant shaman remember two centuries of all the terrible things he's done since getting vamped, or would he revert to a very confused younger self? Would a raised Durkon remember snapping Zz'dtri's neck or just his final monologue to Malack? Neither soul's had any time to party in the Afterlife save a few hours for Malack just now, would his soul even know how long it was held back when deciding whether to stay dead or accept the resurrection? I'm going on the assumption that the soul within a body follows some different rules than souls intentionally trapped in gems in pockets, which seem at least somewhat aware of what's happened to them.
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Jan 24, 2014 07:13
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Hog Butcher posted:View it like being extreme shifted bipolar. So what they're doing right now is like enabling and going along with someone in their out-of-control mental state despite the fact that they know that their lucid self wouldn't want them to.
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Jan 24, 2014 08:33
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All Durkon did was confirm that he got his spells back after meditating, and then in the next panel said "I feel right as Thor's rain." Mentioning Thor right after saying he's got his spells back is his evil, devious way of implying that he's still right with his god, which would only work on the weak-minded. And it did.
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Jan 24, 2014 08:46
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Lurdiak posted:That's a really lovely gig he's got there, if true. Here's what Bozzak told Haley about Ian's disappearance. He had a couple of friends lure him there. Who sent the letter, I wonder? Why, it was Ian's sister Ivy. Who is married to Geoff, who in turn had this to say to Belkar about Bozzak! And, when they finally escaped, where did Geoff want them to go? Back to Ivy and an almost certain ambush by Tarquin's guys! If you've got a better explanation than "Geoff's a dirty traitor", I'd love to hear it!
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Jan 24, 2014 08:48
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Vorgen posted:All Durkon did was confirm that he got his spells back after meditating, and then in the next panel said "I feel right as Thor's rain." Mentioning Thor right after saying he's got his spells back is his evil, devious way of implying that he's still right with his god, which would only work on the weak-minded. What? I...no? Like, why the Hell would it be Hel's Rain? It's just him being Durkon-y, not him deceiving idiots. It's literally 'Take known phrase=>Shoehorn in appropriate Norse figure.'
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Jan 24, 2014 08:59
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:What? I...no? Like, why the Hell would it be Hel's Rain? It's just him being Durkon-y, not him deceiving idiots. It's literally 'Take known phrase=>Shoehorn in appropriate Norse figure.' To reiterate, I'm not saying I definitely buy it, but after the "you thought it was bloodwort, didn't you?  " trick Malack played, the idea of Durkula also using that sort of small deceptions doesn't feel silly to me.He could be doing it with perfectly good intentions, too (if it would upset his friends to know whom he worships now, there's no particular reason for him to tell them). NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 09:52
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Geoff's peg leg is probably wired with some tracking spell and some form of explosive if he tries to tamper with it, or warns Ian.
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Jan 24, 2014 12:09
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Durkon might also legitimately still get his tricks from Thor, too. I suspect that the gods are pragmatic enough to grant power to the people who are trying to foil the controlled release of a deicidal monster regardless of alignment &c.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:21
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Vorgen posted:All Durkon did was confirm that he got his spells back after meditating, and then in the next panel said "I feel right as Thor's rain." Mentioning Thor right after saying he's got his spells back is his evil, devious way of implying that he's still right with his god, which would only work on the weak-minded. That devious bastard, using a colloquialism?! Does his madness know no bounds?
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Jan 24, 2014 14:31
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V. Illych L. posted:Durkon might also legitimately still get his tricks from Thor, too. I suspect that the gods are pragmatic enough to grant power to the people who are trying to foil the controlled release of a deicidal monster regardless of alignment &c. Eh, Rich has said he's a theistic cleric now, so he gets his spells from a 'concept', which make sense as even if Thor would be willing the mechanics are generally you have to be well within at least 1 step away alignment wise. If you look back at: 909 Durkon appears to have been giving Roy an explanation as to everything that's different now, such as him now preparing his spells at Dusk. This leads me to believe he may also have explained to Roy that he doesn't get his spells from Thor 'off panel'. Roy I think would know the rules as well and infer it.
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Jan 24, 2014 17:21
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nimby posted:Geoff's peg leg is probably wired with some tracking spell and some form of explosive if he tries to tamper with it, or warns Ian. My guess is that Ivy's receiving regular payments from Bozzak and is under threat of murder by Crystal if they don't comply. Carrot and stick.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:17
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