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I am seriously considering installing a verification bat at my front door.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:40
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Brightman posted:Anyone else like to think that's Tom sitting at the drawing desk behind the skull? Uhh, isn't that the skull's body? It looks pretty attached and approximately in the right spot to me 
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Jan 24, 2014 18:54
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Hremsfeld posted:Alternatively, Hey mang don't forget that she's the Creator not the destroyer  there's a life part to the death part in this whole robot thing
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Jan 24, 2014 19:00
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GabrielAisling posted:I'm still fond of the idea that we're. Seeing the ROtD as Mort sees it rather than as whatever its true appearance is. I'm not sure there's really a difference, or rather I don't see why there would be a "true" realm of the dead. Consider Coyote's thought experiment. If every god who claims to have created the stars is "correct" then wouldn't it also hold that there are a myriad of different afterlives, each with it's own independent nature, all conflictingly (and with equal truth) claiming to be The realm of the dead?
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Jan 24, 2014 19:03
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Hremsfeld posted:Uhh, isn't that the skull's body? It looks pretty attached and approximately in the right spot to me I don't think so based on the way it slid in when it first showed up: http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1304
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Jan 24, 2014 20:16
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I think I'm ready to unequivocally state that this is going to be my favorite chapter now and forever.
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Jan 24, 2014 20:36
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You know to be honest I'd be kinda too grossed out to touch a weird talking skull sticker thing like Kat did 
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Jan 24, 2014 21:13
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I kinda wish Kat had failed the verification bat as then when they 'make her into a ghost' they might have just dropped a sheet with two eyeholes on top of her and called it a day.
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Jan 24, 2014 21:23
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Parts Kit posted:I kinda wish Kat had failed the verification bat as then when they 'make her into a ghost' they might have just dropped a sheet with two eyeholes on top of her and called it a day. I think the ghosts are smarter then the robots. THey were people after all.
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Jan 24, 2014 21:58
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Kikas posted:I think the ghosts are smarter then the robots. THey were people after all. Maybe some ghosts, but for these ghosts, with their paper gravestones and their rubber bat, I'm pretty sure 'sheet over the head' = ghost is spot-on.
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Jan 24, 2014 23:02
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Parts Kit posted:I kinda wish Kat had failed the verification bat as then when they 'make her into a ghost' they might have just dropped a sheet with two eyeholes on top of her and called it a day. I'm in favour of this.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:11
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MikeJF posted:Or possibly that Kat's living bio-robots from the future may be, as biological creatures, connected to the ether, and their belief may be retroactively elevating her. Having to work sucks. From what Coyote has said, he isn't like a normal Coyote who became uplifted into godhood, he just has always been. So he was retroactively created. BUT! Coyote also says that he was created by mankind's feelings towards real coyotes and predators, it's not like... mankind's belief in the real Coyote caused him to create himself in a stable time loop, Coyote's origin is independent of his own existence. In this example Jones could be the manifestation of the observer, or of man seeing a woman in a stone. Jones wasn't etherically created by people who knew Jones and she is responsible for her own existence that way. So even if the Robot's belief is retroactively making a big deal out of Kat, and even if she gains some kind of etheric presence or power later, I feel like she would have to be capable of discovering the secret behind Diego's creations and making bio-robots even without becoming a creator deity. Basically what I'm saying is that even if Kat gets all sychopompy, I don't think that necessarily means that she is only clever because of weird magic powers. I feel I'm harping on the "Kat's brains aren't magic!" train a bit to much, but the idea just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.  Jeez, did I take a wrong turn into the Homestuck thread? All this talk of stable time loops.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:33
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Kat is a super science genius who is well travelled, but we are expected to believe that somehow she has never seen a verification bat before? I'm not buying it.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:33
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Prison Warden posted:I feel I'm harping on the "Kat's brains aren't magic!" train a bit to much, but the idea just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:48
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Fried Chicken posted:Kat is a super science genius who is well travelled, but we are expected to believe that somehow she has never seen a verification bat before? Well, she's also quite young. The Court might not have allowed her access to such advanced equipment yet.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:49
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Splicer posted:So in this interpretation, Mort is a ghost because he's under a sheet, and the whole dead-but-still-hanging-around aspect is an unrelated thing he just happens to have going on. I've been wondering if it's not like someone else pointed out: there may very well be a ton of different realities given all of the different beliefs among humans. Do you have any idea of how much it costs just to keep the place running!? You're lucky they can even afford to keep 2-D bat verification sensors at the entrance, mister .With regards to Jones, I've always wondered if she actually is possibly etherically based in some related fashion in spite of having no apparent connection to the ether at all. This is because if human belief leads to "creation" deities like Coyote being formed, what does the belief that no deity is responsible for the creation of Earth lead to? I've been wondering if Jones is just the personification of scientific thinking with regards to how the world was created and humans evolved, as apparently human thought seems to shape just about everything in the GC universe.
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Jan 25, 2014 13:58
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Splicer posted:So in this interpretation, Mort is a ghost because he's under a sheet, and the whole dead-but-still-hanging-around aspect is an unrelated thing he just happens to have going on. this would be so great
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Jan 25, 2014 14:14
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GENUINE CAT HERDER posted:With regards to Jones, I've always wondered if she actually is possibly etherically based in some related fashion in spite of having no apparent connection to the ether at all. This is because if human belief leads to "creation" deities like Coyote being formed, what does the belief that no deity is responsible for the creation of Earth lead to? I've been wondering if Jones is just the personification of scientific thinking with regards to how the world was created and humans evolved, as apparently human thought seems to shape just about everything in the GC universe. So the only reason the scientific materialistic view of the world actually works out/is true, is because in modern times enough people died, or are going to die, believing it to be? Retroactively making as true as any religious or god-based worldview? Happy Yeti fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 14:42
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SHISHKABOB posted:You know to be honest I'd be kinda too grossed out to touch a weird talking skull sticker thing like Kat did You know, I don't think it's supposed to be a sticker. I keep looking at that circle on its jaw and thinking of those paper decorations they used to have in school where you passed a brad through two pieces of paper to make a hinge (so the skull's jaw is only moving on that one point) Fake edit: I guess they're called articulated decorations? Here's a picture of one: 1g4Vv7g~~60_35.JPG) You can see the two brads where the cat's legs move.
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Jan 25, 2014 14:53
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GENUINE CAT HERDER posted:With regards to Jones, I've always wondered if she actually is possibly etherically based in some related fashion in spite of having no apparent connection to the ether at all. This is because if human belief leads to "creation" deities like Coyote being formed, what does the belief that no deity is responsible for the creation of Earth lead to? I've been wondering if Jones is just the personification of scientific thinking with regards to how the world was created and humans evolved, as apparently human thought seems to shape just about everything in the GC universe.
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Jan 25, 2014 15:10
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Someone here speculated (seriously or not) that Jones was a living being created by Kat following the path of her current robot research, and sent into the distant past at some point in Gunnerkrigg's future.  I personally feel I'm pretty good at guessing where a given story is going, but Tom has managed to surprise me quite a few times, which I enjoy. I'm in for the long-haul, regardless of the path.
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Jan 25, 2014 15:52
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Mike Danger posted:You know, I don't think it's supposed to be a sticker. I keep looking at that circle on its jaw and thinking of those paper decorations they used to have in school where you passed a brad through two pieces of paper to make a hinge (so the skull's jaw is only moving on that one point) Yeah I know those things, I just sort of spat out "sticker" cause I didn't know what else to call it
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Jan 25, 2014 16:59
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Splicer posted:What I find most interesting about Jones is that she's blonde, caucasian, and has relatively short hair. For the vast majority of humans that have ever existed she'd be considered really weird looking (and she still looks very different to most people on the planet). So either what she has always looked like updates retroactively based on some unknown current factors, or whatever caused her to have always existed is a relatively modern concept. Science in general is very much a relatively modern concept dude, and that's basically where Jones comes from. The kind of people who run the court are the kind of people who would have created Jones.
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Jan 25, 2014 17:15
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Splicer posted:What I find most interesting about Jones is that she's blonde, caucasian, and has relatively short hair. For the vast majority of humans that have ever existed she'd be considered really weird looking (and she still looks very different to most people on the planet). So either what she has always looked like updates retroactively based on some unknown current factors, or whatever caused her to have always existed is a relatively modern concept. She's perfect to be a personification of science. See the scientific revolution and just how much at the time people loved to have various concepts (Justice, Wisdom, Liberty, nations and cities, etc.) represented as an usually female personification.
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Jan 25, 2014 17:45
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Splicer posted:Nah, I'm with you. It's like, Parley can teleport, but what she does with that is entirely up to her. It's just one more tool for Parley the character to use, her ideas for what to do with it are all her own. If Kat's ideabox is actually just the ether shoving superscience in then how much of what Kat does is Kat, and how much is just her being a conduit? I dunno man but when she can intuitively read robo-source code that is etheric in origin and can't actually be expressed in human writing, I think it's fair to say there's probably some etheric ability going on.
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Jan 25, 2014 17:46
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Where are we getting that robot code is etheric in origin? I know it doesn't translate into writing (hence Kat needing a microscope to read a cube) but I don't recall it being described as anything more than really complex machine code.
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Jan 25, 2014 17:55
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Kat's symbol is probably associated with her nascent identity as the Robot's God / Angel. Just as human beliefs twist and change the aether, their own beliefs in her, being mostly non-aetheric entities themselves, has started transforming her identity into something similar. I'm taking away that the robots viewing her as a god is literally making her into one. e: hence also the horrifying metallic angel imagery
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Jan 25, 2014 18:24
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Happy Yeti posted:So the only reason the scientific materialistic view of the world actually works out/is true, is because in modern times enough people died, or are going to die, believing it to be? Retroactively making as true as any religious or god-based worldview? Of course. It's just another way to stare into the chaos of the universe and squint and cock your head until you see a pattern. Rationality doesn't cure human intellect. It's merely a late stage of the disease.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:34
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Wyld Karde posted:Where are we getting that robot code is etheric in origin? I know it doesn't translate into writing (hence Kat needing a microscope to read a cube) but I don't recall it being described as anything more than really complex machine code. Yeah, Kat reading the code is basically double reverse engineering. Robots reverse engineered the code that Diego used for his robots, which is interpreted as that cube we saw earlier, and Kat is basically rewriting that into something she can understand better and improve on. Nothing etherical going on. Aside from the fact that the Seraph robots are really golems.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:47
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ChairMaster posted:Science in general is very much a relatively modern concept dude, and that's basically where Jones comes from. The kind of people who run the court are the kind of people who would have created Jones. Zorak posted:Kat's symbol is probably associated with her nascent identity as the Robot's God / Angel. Just as human beliefs twist and change the aether, their own beliefs in her, being mostly non-aetheric entities themselves, has started transforming her identity into something similar.
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Jan 25, 2014 21:00
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Zorak posted:Kat's symbol is probably associated with her nascent identity as the Robot's God / Angel. Just as human beliefs twist and change the aether, their own beliefs in her, being mostly non-aetheric entities themselves, has started transforming her identity into something similar. Thank God I'm not the only one sticking with this train of thought.
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Jan 25, 2014 21:11
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Kikas posted:Yeah, Kat reading the code is basically double reverse engineering. Robots reverse engineered the code that Diego used for his robots, which is interpreted as that cube we saw earlier, and Kat is basically rewriting that into something she can understand better and improve on. I always thought the reason the code was so complicated (and impossible for anyone to understand) is because it's much like the Donlan's computer - just enough Etheric stuff to make it work. All of the robots 'code' is based off the original golems of the Court, after they found they couldn't make more golems. It was a leap from 'based on purely etheric constructs' to 'partially run on ether'. Especially since we already know the Court's robots aren't purely mechanical - Kat makes a big deal out of how Annie could just 'put together' Robot from parts and have it work, and then we learned about the golems and how all the Court robots are compatible with them.
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Jan 25, 2014 22:44
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I always figured that Annie being able to "just put together" Robot was due to the fact that his design, and probably all court robots, is extremely modular, and thus easy to repair. The original court robots designed the first generation of new court robots to be simple and easy to maintain in their absence, and every generation thereafter has been as simple as possible to maintain and repair. As for the code, I'm not sure there's any ether involved in the current gen robot's coding. The original robots were all, or almost all etheric "code", and the first generation of new robots probably had a good amount of etheric code. But as the designs transitioned from etheric golems into the modular easy-to-produce machines we see today, the etheric part has waned so much that only the structure of the code is etheric in nature, which is why it had to be printed in a cubic format. The way I like to think of it, as stupid as it sounds, is like having an old game on an old engine, that you mod something into. The next game comes out for the next gen engine, and instead of creating a whole new mod, someone just finds a way to import your mod from the old game to the new game. Skip ahead a bunch of games, and your mod still exists in a recognizable way, but it's been imported through so many generations of engines and games that the original code is just a mere shadow of what it originally was.
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Jan 25, 2014 23:25
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Splicer posted:Your use of "dude" here seems to indicate you're trying to lay some kind of burn down, which I don't quite understand because that's pretty much what I was getting at. What I just call people dude a lot, it's basically unconscious at this point.
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Jan 26, 2014 04:43
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As far as etheric modern robots go, don't forget Robot has some special module on his CPU that activated the golems. The golems are etheric, so presumably there's something etheric in there. If Kat is indeed being literally deified by her robots' belief, it'd have to be retroactive. People affect the ether when they die, and their ideas and beliefs and personalities become a part of the natural world. Only one robot is ever known to have truly died, and that was a single thoughtless muscle, so if indeed the robots' worship is making her a spiritually important being that means that her line of inquiry is going to succeed, and their beliefs are affecting their past.
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Jan 26, 2014 16:48
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Didn't she permanently shut down one of the courts early robots?
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Jan 26, 2014 17:59
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RandomPauI posted:Didn't she permanently shut down one of the courts early robots? It's more accurate to say she patched over a deliberately damaged section of it's code, and then removed the patch when the robot asked to be turned off again.
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Jan 26, 2014 19:27
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The robot Kat revived thought being turned off was more like death than like sleep. Interestingly, while Robot is now implicitly claiming that wasn't a "true" death, he made no such distinction at the time.
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Jan 26, 2014 20:26
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Heavy Zed posted:The robot Kat revived thought being turned off was more like death than like sleep. Interestingly, while Robot is now implicitly claiming that wasn't a "true" death, he made no such distinction at the time. Probably because the Old Machine had to be granted death and was incapable of expiring naturally.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:14
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I'm not really sure what you're saying to be honest. Even if the old golem couldn't die of old age or starvation--though judging by what we know of how the current court robots came to be just wearing out from use is a real concern--they were certainly vulnerable to physical damage. Meanwhile the wing didn't exactly die of "natural causes". So yeah I don't really understand what distinction you're making.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:22
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