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Ok, unless J.J. has a total boner for Thrawn, they won't go with him because creating an original new baddie for the films will be infinitely more appealing. (Edit: but we all know Disney will just come up with a way to resurrect Darth Vader and call it a day) Mr. Gibbycrumbles fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 22:40
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:(Edit: but we all know Disney will just come up with a way to resurrect Darth Vader and call it a day) Or they could resurrect Palpatine, though given Mark Hamill's age the'd have to change the plot.
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Jan 26, 2014 01:39
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They probably won't go so far as to bring back Vader or Palpatine, but there sure as poo poo will be a new Sith Lord/Apprentice combo. Come to think of it, since Abrams was content to rip off Wrath of Khan in his last movie, I wonder if he'll pull the same 'steal stuff from the canonized 'best film in the series" trick again and just copy Empire Strikes Back. e: another bit of dialogue they'll re-use because why not: "I love you." "I know." Slate Action fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 03:57
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He waited til part 2 with Trek to copy part 2.  And you'd be delusional to think this won't have some sort of Sith or Dark Jedi villain.
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Jan 26, 2014 04:58
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Slate Action posted:They probably won't go so far as to bring back Vader or Palpatine, but there sure as poo poo will be a new Sith Lord/Apprentice combo. Vaader and Palpatiine
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Jan 26, 2014 12:30
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Slate Action posted:e: another bit of dialogue they'll re-use because why not: "I love you." "I know." With Leia saying "I know" to Han this time.
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Jan 26, 2014 13:24
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tanglewood1420 posted:With Leia saying "I know" to Han this time. It's been done in Return of the Jedi. 
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Jan 26, 2014 14:49
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Return of the Jedi is still my favourite film in the series. I don't understand the flak it gets. The scenes with the Ewoks are fun and interesting and are the closest we ever get in the OT (yes, the prequels did this better!) to really seeing another culture, the sort of pulpy action stuff I read about in the John Carter books. It's a little disheartening that people hate them just because they're teddy bears. Those bears are the reason you fight the Empire. I guess it's the pacing issue, Jabba's Palace is a good opener so the Endor scenes, which would work better as part of the opening, gets pushed a little too far into the middle of the film. I just don't really mind that personally. Also the entire final fight has this purely mythic quality to it and the way it's contrasted with the more meat-and-potatoes of the actual battles taking place is great. The entire Jedi/Sith aspect of the story is kept to those three characters and no-one else need know anything about it. There's something cool about that. Best film.
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Jan 26, 2014 15:02
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I like it best for that reason, and also green lightsaber is the best lightsaber. 
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Jan 26, 2014 18:00
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Hbomberguy posted:Return of the Jedi is still my favourite film in the series. I don't understand the flak it gets. The scenes with the Ewoks are fun and interesting and are the closest we ever get in the OT (yes, the prequels did this better!) to really seeing another culture, the sort of pulpy action stuff I read about in the John Carter books. It's a little disheartening that people hate them just because they're teddy bears. Those bears are the reason you fight the Empire. Yeah I'm with you, Return is my favourite too. Ewoks own, but they're not that cute if you think about it: they're bug-eyed cannibalistic bear-dog men, who stab and bludgeon and then roast alive and eat their enemies/anyone they meet. I mean I think they are cute (which nerds hate for some dumb reason, probably 'grit' related), but in that adorable primitive prehistory kinda way.
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Jan 26, 2014 18:36
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Black Bones posted:Yeah I'm with you, Return is my favourite too. Ewoks own, but they're not that cute if you think about it: they're bug-eyed cannibalistic bear-dog men, who stab and bludgeon and then roast alive and eat their enemies/anyone they meet. I mean I think they are cute (which nerds hate for some dumb reason, probably 'grit' related), but in that adorable primitive prehistory kinda way. Oh yeah underneath the surface is an immediate vile-ness, they're not good or innocent or anything, but they're exactly the sort of culture you should want to fight an empire to protect - a stand-in for us, or any other indigenous culture, as it were. Which makes the implications of impersonating their gods and co-opting them in your fight very potentially problematic, but Luke and the gang's honest reasons for doing so and the nice party they have at the end imply they might not make the same mistakes as the Empire. Maybe. Hopefully. As long as you ignore the EU. Also the purple lightsaber is my favourite because of the implications. It's halfway red! OH MY GODDDDDD
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Jan 26, 2014 18:52
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Hbomberguy posted:Return of the Jedi is still my favourite film in the series. I don't understand the flak it gets. The scenes with the Ewoks are fun and interesting and are the closest we ever get in the OT (yes, the prequels did this better!) to really seeing another culture, the sort of pulpy action stuff I read about in the John Carter books. It's a little disheartening that people hate them just because they're teddy bears. Those bears are the reason you fight the Empire. I completely agree. The only thing that bugs me with the bears is how easy their stick arrows penetrate the Storm Trooper armor...or do I direct my rage at the Storm Troopers for making armor out of soggy toilet paper? Return of the Jedi feels like a perfect movie to end a trilogy with. Plenty of action with a little bit of humerous downtime to catch your breath in the Ewoks. The way Threepio tells the story to them is cute. Purple is a horrible color for a sword. Just make it red or green.
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Jan 26, 2014 19:20
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Yeah, I agree that most of the hate for Jedi is because of nerds not willing to accept cute comic relief teddy bears into their oh-so-gritty and epic space fantasy escapism universe. Most regular people dig the Ewoks, I find. On the other hand, everyone loving hates Jar-Jar, and for good reason.
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Jan 26, 2014 19:57
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:
The same reason they like cheeseburger cats (it's a meme).
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Jan 26, 2014 20:28
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computer parts posted:The same reason they like cheeseburger cats (it's a meme). Jar Jar is objectively terrible though...
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Jan 26, 2014 20:37
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Darth TNT posted:I completely agree. The only thing that bugs me with the bears is how easy their stick arrows penetrate the Storm Trooper armor...or do I direct my rage at the Storm Troopers for making armor out of soggy toilet paper? There are a couple of ways to fix that, with yer imagination: Ewoks are decent shots, and aim for the gaps in the armour. Like knights in armoured plate still got shiv'd and bludgeoned to death all the time. Or we can go with your idea; their armour is (in-universe) plastic! This angle aslo explains their terrible aim - their guns/visors/training/intelligence/thematic morals (what sort of person wants to be a "stormtrooper"?) are all garbage. It's a criticism of military contractors, like Robocop(s). Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:Jar Jar is objectively terrible though... The mentally-handicapped are difficult to have as friends or family, but they're not worthy of hate. Quigon had the right attitude, even if no one else did.
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Jan 26, 2014 20:55
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Black Bones posted:The mentally-handicapped are difficult to have as friends or family, but they're not worthy of hate. Quigon had the right attitude, even if no one else did. QuiGon doesn't consider an ethnic minority to be a real person 'Right attitude' Free the slaves? Ugh, I'll free one if it'll help me get away from these poors.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:06
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Naw, he's the one who recognizes (like the slave child) that this exiled retard has worth and is important. Jinn is a condescending fool (re: Jedi), but he does get some things right.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:14
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That scene where Luke takes of Vaders mask is the most touching scene in all the Star Wars films. Return of the Jedi owns.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:18
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sassassin posted:QuiGon doesn't consider an ethnic minority to be a real person His whole plan when he gets back is to treat that ethnic minority like real people, though, and treat them as equals to the (white) humans.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:19
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Which is waaay more light-side than the other humans, who make The Fool a Senator, one they know they can manipulate. The real problem is Lucas giving into the nerd-rage and toning down the JarJar in the later films. He really needed a 'Stańczyk during a Ball at the Court of Queen Bona after the Loss of Smolensk'esque moment. edit: I'm not arguing that Binks is a 'wise fool', his character really is mentally-handicapped, but he serves a similar function in the story. edit2: ah gently caress it, I am arguing that Blood Boils fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 21:34
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The biggest problem with Jar-Jar is that all the scenes in which he reads as comic relief aren't particularly funny. He's cutesy; his accent, for instance, is delivered more like a punchline rather than a part of his character (as with Boss Nass).
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Jan 26, 2014 21:52
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Black Bones posted:There are a couple of ways to fix that, with yer imagination: Ewoks are decent shots, and aim for the gaps in the armour. Like knights in armoured plate still got shiv'd and bludgeoned to death all the time. Or we can go with your idea; their armour is (in-universe) plastic! This angle aslo explains their terrible aim - their guns/visors/training/intelligence/thematic morals (what sort of person wants to be a "stormtrooper"?) are all garbage. It's a criticism of military contractors, like Robocop(s). One EU book actually tried to explain the poor accuracy of stormtroopers by saying that their guns were just really lovely. Which raises the question of why the heroes could shoot straight using the exact same guns on the Death Star. So yeah, par for the course for the EU. INH5 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 21:52
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Black Bones posted:There are a couple of ways to fix that, with yer imagination: Ewoks are decent shots, and aim for the gaps in the armour. Like knights in armoured plate still got shiv'd and bludgeoned to death all the time. Or we can go with your idea; their armour is (in-universe) plastic! This angle aslo explains their terrible aim - their guns/visors/training/intelligence/thematic morals (what sort of person wants to be a "stormtrooper"?) are all garbage. It's a criticism of military contractors, like Robocop(s). Or maybe it's a case of narrative guided bullets, or Principle of Evil Markmanship. Edit: If you reply to my question of "who is more good" with "duh, Luke, it's self defense" remember that we're talking about a fantastical good/evil strict dichotomy where Luke comes into his own as a true Jedi by not killing Vader in self-defense, resisting the temptation to follow his rage and become Palpatine's new apprentice. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 22:09
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:Yeah, I agree that most of the hate for Jedi is because of nerds not willing to accept cute comic relief teddy bears into their oh-so-gritty and epic space fantasy escapism universe. Most regular people dig the Ewoks, I find. I think the dullness of most of the Endor scenes pre-battle, the really unconvincing way in which the Ewoks are shown taking out the Imperial troops, and Hamill being the only one of the three lead actors who looks like he wants to be there have a lot to do with it. Don't get me wrong, I like the movie, it does provide a fitting conclusion to the saga and the space battle and Emperor's throne room scenes are fantastic, but I think the less-than-stellar reception is pretty much because most of the movie pales in comparison to its two predecessors in almost every way.
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Jan 26, 2014 23:43
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Slate Action posted:e: another bit of dialogue they'll re-use because why not: "Han, I -- " "I know." First of all, FTFY  Someone told me once (in high school) that originally this was a very different scene, with Leia saying something longer and more eloquent than "I--" and Han's response being longer too. But Carrie Fisher was so blasted on whatever she was on that she kept forgetting the line, and Ford was getting frustrated, so he just cut her off with the "I know" and they kept it in the film. A la Indiana Jones and the Revolver of Exasperation. Is this true or just some bullshit someone made up in high school? INH5 posted:One EU book actually tried to explain the poor accuracy of stormtroopers by saying that their guns were just really lovely. Which raises the question of why the heroes could shoot straight using the exact same guns on the Death Star. So yeah, par for the course for the EU. Well, all the Star Wars games would confirm that the E-11 shoots like the barrel is made of jello. Leia and Luke are both force-sensitive, so maybe they have a limited instinctual precognition that lets them shoot more accurately. Han, well, he's a goddamn gunslinger, and when he's shooting with the stormtrooper blasters, he tends to just spray and pray.
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Jan 27, 2014 00:29
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I thought they had bad aim because the guy they cloned stormtroopers from had vision problems.
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Jan 27, 2014 00:53
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Negative Entropy posted:I think the Stormtrooper's markmanship could be explained by the fact that in real life, most soldiers deliberately miss (that doesn't explain why the Stormtroopers quickly flattened Leia's guards in Ep. IV though). Which raises another question: If the Stormtroopers have enough humanity to miss and die for it, who is more "evil"? Cracked.com did a whole article about this. The writer came to the conclusion that soldiers have an easier time shooting at an enemy they can dehumanize. Uniforms like those worn by Leia's guards and other Rebel redshirts help. Uniforms that totally conceal the wearer's face, like those worn by the stormtroopers, really help. But Luke, Han, and Leia are running around with their faces visible and in distinctive clothing, so they're more likely to be seen as individual people. It actually is an interesting idea, even if I don't think it totally works as an explanation. Negative Entropy posted:Edit: If you reply to my question of "who is more good" with "duh, Luke, it's self defense" remember that we're talking about a fantastical good/evil strict dichotomy where Luke comes into his own as a true Jedi by not killing Vader in self-defense, resisting the temptation to follow his rage and become Palpatine's new apprentice. Luke decided to not kill Vader when Vader was disarmed (literally) and totally at his mercy. He was well past self defense at that point. The MSJ posted:I thought they had bad aim because the guy they cloned stormtroopers from had vision problems. The fact that the movies never clarified this by themselves is one of the many problems with the prequels, but it has been made clear in various sources that, by the time of the OT, stormtroopers are no longer solely made up of Jango clones. Some are still mixed in there, but in addition they have clones of other people as well as just normal human recruits. Hence why Lucas had Boba Fett's voice dubbed over in the DVD release but left all the stormtrooper dialogue in. Yes, I know what I've said about the EU, but this is one of the few things that is actually more or less consistent. Sagebrush posted:Someone told me once (in high school) that originally this was a very different scene, with Leia saying something longer and more eloquent than "I--" and Han's response being longer too. But Carrie Fisher was so blasted on whatever she was on that she kept forgetting the line, and Ford was getting frustrated, so he just cut her off with the "I know" and they kept it in the film. A la Indiana Jones and the Revolver of Exasperation. Is this true or just some bullshit someone made up in high school? Something like that did happen. The version of the story I've heard is that the script had Han say "I love you too," but Irvin Kirshner and Harrison Ford didn't think any of the takes sounded right. So eventually Kirshner told Ford to forget the script and say whatever came to mind, and we got "I know." I've never heard anything about Carrie Fisher being blasted while filming Empire, but I think she has claimed that she has no memory of filming the Holiday Special because of how much cocaine she was on around that time. INH5 fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jan 27, 2014 |
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Jan 27, 2014 00:54
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Return of the Jedi has always been my favorite. That said, the changes made to it are the worst by far. That updated song in Jabba's den is just... no words. I can't think of anything I like about Star Wars when that poo poo pops into my head.
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Jan 27, 2014 01:04
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Sagebrush posted:First of all, FTFY 
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Jan 27, 2014 01:10
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Sagebrush posted:First of all, FTFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJWr7nAt8ik I don't get it. Are there multiple versions of this scene?
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Jan 27, 2014 02:29
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The original lines were "I love you", to which Han responds, "I love you too". Irvin Kershner hated it and couldn't get the scene to work, so he just told Ford to go with whatever. Ford then improvised "I know". SOURCE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoQ1mOrV8Nc&t=5892s
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Jan 27, 2014 06:13
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Darth TNT posted:I completely agree. The only thing that bugs me with the bears is how easy their stick arrows penetrate the Storm Trooper armor...or do I direct my rage at the Storm Troopers for making armor out of soggy toilet paper? I dont know why so many people misremember the endor fight. The ewoks launch like 100 arrows into the huge group of stormtroopers and kill maybe 2 of them. All they ever really do aside from taking out 2 walkers is throw rocks and knock some stormtroopers over.
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Jan 27, 2014 07:49
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Windmill Hut posted:The original lines were "I love you", to which Han responds, "I love you too". Since we're adding stories. I heard the line came from the fact that noone was certain that they could get Harrison Ford to do Han Solo again. This way they could keep the relationship open. I don't have a source though so yours sounds more likely. Anyway: I love you!  I love you too!  Sounds a lot more cliche then: I love you! I know!  zVxTeflon posted:I dont know why so many people misremember the endor fight. The ewoks launch like 100 arrows into the huge group of stormtroopers and kill maybe 2 of them. All they ever really do aside from taking out 2 walkers is throw rocks and knock some stormtroopers over. So how did they win? What happened to all the storm troopers?
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Jan 27, 2014 08:23
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Darth TNT posted:
Chewy blasts the poo poo out of a lot of them when he hijacks the AT-ST
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Jan 27, 2014 08:34
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zVxTeflon posted:Chewy blasts the poo poo out of a lot of them when he hijacks the AT-ST Chewie used an AT-ST to take out the AT-AT that was hanging around? Never mind. Does anyone know if that movie with the Ewoks and 2 kids in the lead fit into Starwars official canon?
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Jan 27, 2014 08:50
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computer parts posted:His whole plan when he gets back is to treat that ethnic minority like real people, though, and treat them as equals to the (white) humans. A small force of humans launch a daring assault on a largely undefended fortress, because the entire Gungan population is marching across a field towards massed ranks of mechanized infantry. CGI army against CGI army. Expendable chaff against expendable chaff.
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Jan 27, 2014 10:52
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sassassin posted:A small force of humans launch a daring assault on a largely undefended fortress, because the entire Gungan population is marching across a field towards massed ranks of mechanized infantry. Gungan battle tactics are so advanced because of the will of force that we
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Jan 27, 2014 10:55
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echronorian posted:Return of the Jedi has always been my favorite. That said, the changes made to it are the worst by far. That updated song in Jabba's den is just... no words. I can't think of anything I like about Star Wars when that poo poo pops into my head. That song establishes Jabba's taste perfectly.
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Jan 27, 2014 13:03
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zVxTeflon posted:I dont know why so many people misremember the endor fight. The ewoks launch like 100 arrows into the huge group of stormtroopers and kill maybe 2 of them. All they ever really do aside from taking out 2 walkers is throw rocks and knock some stormtroopers over. Theres a bit with stormtroopers running the gently caress away while ewoks kill the poo poo out a bunch of them, and the music score makes the whole seem thing heroic and kind of funny. Look at the little guys go! says the music. I had it on the other day with the sound muted and I realised that bit is actually quite horrific. Not that, you know, any of the battles would be fun if protrayed realistically, but theres something very horrible about being dragged down by a mob of chattering, sharp toothed rodents (Who have been implied to, you know, eat people earlier in the movie) who procede to impale you with spears and bludgeon your skull in with rocks.
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Jan 27, 2014 13:51
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