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I remember watching one of those "God of Gambler" movies with this same basic premise; the antagonist vs the untalented side kick(I think), and the guy went all in, 100m, every hand without even looking at his cards. It was hilarious, and completely frustrated the guy who depended on skills. I am pretty sure Jiwon saw the same movie.
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Jan 24, 2014 01:43
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Lone Goat posted:Yeah, let me not take this bet where I'm 95% to win. Good strategy. It's not 95% to win because you know that the only logical reason to go all-in like that one the very first bet of the entire game is that you have an unwinnable hand. Therefore you're going to match your opponent's unwinnable hand or your opponent is absurdly reckless (it could be a good bluff but one that gets a minimum gain for a very significant risk). So there's a small chance that your opponent is an idiot, insane, or stupidly overconfident and then a 50% chance that you'll actually win when facing down the hands. So you've got maybe a sixty percent chance of winning by going all-in versus an over 90% chance of winning long term by folding now and letting the game develop a bit more. This isn't a table with six people. It's not ten hands into the game with different chip counts. It's two people, playing with knowledge of only their opponents card, and the first hand that they've ever played against each other. All of that dramatically changes the strategy. You're not playing the math of the deck, you're playing the person. Jiwon could have trying pushing his chips around and going all-in every hand but on the second hand Jinho is going to see that and then just play the odds of his own hand winning which still gives him better odds than going all-in on the first hand.
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Jan 24, 2014 02:06
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Tonfa posted:If Junghyun manages to stumble his way into winning the whole thing then I don't even loving know I think that's the point though, if he plays clueless and follows along with the winning teams, he will get very far. I would not be surprised at all to see Junghyun, Sangmin finals.
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Jan 24, 2014 07:06
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Random Stranger posted:It's not 95% to win because you know that the only logical reason to go all-in like that one the very first bet of the entire game is that you have an unwinnable hand. Therefore you're going to match your opponent's unwinnable hand or your opponent is absurdly reckless (it could be a good bluff but one that gets a minimum gain for a very significant risk). So there's a small chance that your opponent is an idiot, insane, or stupidly overconfident and then a 50% chance that you'll actually win when facing down the hands. So you've got maybe a sixty percent chance of winning by going all-in versus an over 90% chance of winning long term by folding now and letting the game develop a bit more. If we assume that Jiwon's strategy was "all-in every hand" then Jinho's move was the correct move to make, because with the information he has there is no scenario then knowing at worst we will be tied/coinflip, except you are expecting him to count cards and only make a move when the number of lowest card remaining is lower then <3 (not counting Jiwon's card). Only if we assume that Jiwon's strategy was not "all-in every hand" or "all-in every hand with Jinho's card <50% winchance" would it be sensible to fold for Jinho. But with regards to all the Jiwon is the worst player ever, I would like to highlight the fact that him choosing Jinho was brilliant, as it gave him atleast a shot at public support (from the other contestants) in case of a popularity contest. His pitch would have been "Would you rather go to the finals with Jinho, the genius, or me, who is hated and stupid.
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Jan 24, 2014 08:48
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Does anyone know the name of that techno-ish song playing when Hongchul went completely insane with his dice at about 40 minutes?
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Jan 24, 2014 08:51
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404GoonNotFound posted:Does anyone know the name of that techno-ish song playing when Hongchul went completely insane with his dice at about 40 minutes? The song is 080509 from Idiotape. You can find it on iTunes in the 11111101 album, which is all around fantastic. The theme for the show is also an Idiotape song (Melodie), and they've used all of their songs at least once I believe.
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Jan 24, 2014 11:07
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Factor Mystic posted:This is not a spoiler, and we're several days past the episode availability. Can we please switch over to Netflix show spoiler rules, or the ep-by-ep equivalent where we don't spoiler things that are available? It's just getting pointless. It's not a spoiler but my comment was about the person who got out in the latest episode. I thought the general rule of thumb for a niche show like the Genius is that we spoiler everything, even the season 1 stuff. Both the General Korean Thread and the Running Man Thread also follow the same rules.
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Jan 24, 2014 11:56
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Jiwon's strategy wasn't Jiwon's. After the game interview s2e7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lzHB7Vuo-k
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Jan 24, 2014 23:11
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Random Stranger posted:It's not 95% to win because you know that the only logical reason to go all-in like that one the very first bet of the entire game is that you have an unwinnable hand. Therefore you're going to match your opponent's unwinnable hand or your opponent is absurdly reckless (it could be a good bluff but one that gets a minimum gain for a very significant risk). So there's a small chance that your opponent is an idiot, insane, or stupidly overconfident and then a 50% chance that you'll actually win when facing down the hands. So you've got maybe a sixty percent chance of winning by going all-in versus an over 90% chance of winning long term by folding now and letting the game develop a bit more. Jiwon's pushing range was very likely 2-4 or 2-3, especially if he was coached by Yohwan. Being aggressive and picking up the antes in a low stack game compounds your advantage very quickly. You're saying Jinho should adopt a strategy where he never calls an all-in from Jiwon when he has the worst hand unless there is a 100% chance he wins. This doesn't work with 15 chips. If Jiwon is aggressive early picking up the antes, he'll just stomp all over Jinho. You're saying Jinho should never call an all-in or a raise for almost all his chips in almost every very advantageous situation that's going to happen in a low stack game. You'll lose in a low stack game doing that. Have you ever played heads up no limit poker with ~15 chips versus someone else's ~15 chips? The game becomes very random and rewards aggression and a willingness to coin flip. comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 03:21
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Femur posted:I remember watching one of those "God of Gambler" movies with this same basic premise; the antagonist vs the untalented side kick(I think), and the guy went all in, 100m, every hand without even looking at his cards. It was hilarious, and completely frustrated the guy who depended on skills. I am pretty sure Jiwon saw the same movie.
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Jan 26, 2014 03:23
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I liked the addon clips this week. They talked about going out after the last episode and Sangmin called Jinho the next day because he woke up with wet shoes and a broken phone and couldn't remember anything.
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Jan 26, 2014 05:16
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Episode 8 is up
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Jan 27, 2014 10:01
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E8: Sad to see Hongchul go, but if he had to go, losing to Junghyun pulling a surprisingly smart move is a good way to get eliminated. It's also nice to see Yohwan stepping up in Jinho's absence, even though it didn't work out for him this round.
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Jan 27, 2014 12:15
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I love the decorations this year. There is the Obama HOPE poster and in the garage there is a license plate that says 'America' on it (even though license plates are issued by state). One of the rooms just has names spelled out like a 3rd grade classroom.
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Jan 27, 2014 13:01
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Shakugan posted:I was waiting for a Super Sangmin joke as soon as he came in with that hair, but it never came. My wait is over. I thought it was pretty funny that Sangmin was praying to Jinho, the "god of the Genius". The main match was disappointing since no-one really did anything particularly clever, but it was surprising to have Junghyun have a pretty cool strategy in the deathmatch
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Jan 27, 2014 17:03
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Shakugan posted:My wait is over. Probably the best moment ever. SUPER SAIYAN
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Jan 27, 2014 17:16
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Shakugan posted:The main match was disappointing since no-one really did anything particularly clever Well, the greatest thing is that everyone agrees that they all have to take Sangmin down, but at some point they all realize that while they try to stip him of the immunity idol, that means that two of them have to go to the deathmatch and they all start playing to avoid it happening to them. I am rooting for Sangmin to win it all so watching everyone else run around while he smirks and still gets first place despite just about everyone trying to bring him down is just the best..
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Jan 27, 2014 17:30
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S2E8: What I liked about this game, was that the garnets could be used. Initially I thought it would heavily favor Sangmin, and to an extent I think it did, but there was some good play available there where you could pass and potentially amass a large number of garnets from other garnet heavy players, assuming you don't eventually lose in the elimination. Allowed production to even things out a bit since it was heavily tilted towards Sangmin. Sorry to see Hong chul go. Also would like to point out we still have yet to fully disprove Junghyun's Keyser Soze/Jigsaw persona. He faltered a bit in the elimination to not appear as strong, I'm sure of it. Teek fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 27, 2014 |
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Jan 27, 2014 17:38
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Shakugan posted:The main match was disappointing since no-one really did anything particularly clever, but it was surprising to have Junghyun have a pretty cool strategy in the deathmatch
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Jan 27, 2014 17:39
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Sniper Party posted:With everyone basically switching over to play with garnets instead of chips once they got some in circulation, and with Yohwan telling Yooyoung he would make her first, by the time Sangmin checked Yooyoung's chip bag and remarked on her having a ton, I was really waiting for a revelation about some of the others secretly gifting Yooyoung their chips to make her win so they could get rid of the immortality token. Me too, it's totally the kind of thing that is typically referred back to afterwards so we can go "oh! That's why that happened!". Despite the main match not being great strategically, I did enjoy that we didn't get another match decided by a big alliance, and that Sangmin still managed to win.
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Jan 27, 2014 18:22
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Sniper Party posted:With everyone basically switching over to play with garnets instead of chips once they got some in circulation, and with Yohwan telling Yooyoung he would make her first, by the time Sangmin checked Yooyoung's chip bag and remarked on her having a ton, I was really waiting for a revelation about some of the others secretly gifting Yooyoung their chips to make her win so they could get rid of the immortality token. Giving chips and numbers was against the rules. My strategy would have been to amass as many chips as possible to force others into taking the rest of the blocks, but Sangmin would have won through sheer Garnet superiority. Another episode that makes me love Junghyun, that strategy was genius. I really believe he went into the show knowing that blatant geniuses like Jinho, Sangmin and (last season) Gura and Junseok become targets, so he's been playing dumb.
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Jan 27, 2014 19:26
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I always root for the guy that everyone picks on as stupid and it seems like in both seasons both of my guys had everyone fooled 
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Jan 27, 2014 20:34
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Donkay NOoo posted:I always root for the guy that everyone picks on as stupid and it seems like in both seasons both of my guys had everyone fooled So he's going to send desperate love letters to Sangmin in the next episode? I loved SSSangmin laughing it up progressively harder when everyone around him tripped over themselves when trying to get him to burn his token. Junghyun's approach to the deathmatch actually blindsided me despite being so simple. Good stuff.
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Jan 27, 2014 22:06
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Junghyun fighting! Great strategy for the deathmatch, the only thing that would have made it better I think is, that you keep picking the same tile that other guys just picked, not just any tile they've picked. I think that way it gives more opportunity for your opponent to forgett what letters they've already chosen.
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Jan 27, 2014 22:07
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I've been trying to catch up with this season after stumbling upon this thread. I'm a huge Boxer and Yellow fan, I just got to episode 6 where Sangming gave Doohee the fake token I almost lost my poo poo, having watched a lot of game shows that may have been the best move I've ever seen.
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Jan 27, 2014 22:31
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Imo Hongchul really messed up, should have just followed the Junghyun plan once he got even. Still, Junghyun fighting!
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Jan 27, 2014 22:57
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Wasn't in love with this episode. Just posting to say the main match is literally this popular table game. http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12942/no-thanks Also glad to see Junghyun not suck poo poo this episode.
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Jan 27, 2014 22:59
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I thought this was a pretty cute moment: She was so happy!
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Jan 27, 2014 23:04
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Davincie posted:I thought this was a pretty cute moment: Yes this was such a good moment especially with the music they had with it. PICTURE MATCH CLAIMS ANOTHER ONE OF MY FAVORITES. First it was Sangmin in season 1 and now Hongchul. Goddamn I didn't expect Junghyun to have such a smart plan. I never thought of that and the second time he called the same picture I was like are you serious, but no he was just playing dumb. So good. Hongchul! Why did you have to call O after Junghyun. Main match wasn't as good as it could be, but I loved the banter between everyone and also the plan getting sabotaged by the allure of garnets. Junghyun fighting!!!
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Jan 27, 2014 23:49
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Davincie posted:Imo Hongchul really messed up, should have just followed the Junghyun plan once he got even. Still, Junghyun fighting! He never got even, at best he was still -1.
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Jan 27, 2014 23:58
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This show makes my blood boil.
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Jan 28, 2014 00:05
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Nexal posted:This show makes my blood boil. Your title just reminded me there was no Extreme Ways this episode.
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Jan 28, 2014 00:19
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E8:Very entertaining episode all round. Main game was really well-designed, not so well played, but had lots of great moments. Definitely reminded me of the maths equation auction episode from around this time last season. Super Sangmin continues to be the best, there were so many moments in this episode where he was losing his poo poo laughing, not least when Jiwon was begging Junghyun not to take him to the death match. His visceral PTSD-flashback when they announced the game was hilarious too. I liked Hongchul well enough but wasn't sad to see him go out to such a baller strategy. Junghyun clearly needs to win this now. Am actually pretty fond of everyone who's left now, Yooyoung and Jiwon had enough good moments this episode for me to forgive them past transgressions.
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Jan 28, 2014 00:21
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Tonfa posted:He never got even, at best he was still -1. Wait did he start further back or am I misunderstanding the game?
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Jan 28, 2014 01:41
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Davincie posted:Wait did he start further back or am I misunderstanding the game? he started -2 from the beginning because he had less garnets
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Jan 28, 2014 01:44
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Ah I missed that.
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Jan 28, 2014 01:45
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E8:I thought about Junghyun's strategy the first time they showed us the game last season. And while the strategy is pretty cool, bringing back a season 1 game with a simple "80% to win instantly after 9 rounds" strategy (if you have the most chips) kinda sucks. Junghyun's kids or anyone he knows could've told him about it between season 1 and 2.
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Jan 28, 2014 01:54
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Zythrst posted:Junghyun fighting! Great strategy for the deathmatch, the only thing that would have made it better I think is, that you keep picking the same tile that other guys just picked, not just any tile they've picked. I think that way it gives more opportunity for your opponent to forgett what letters they've already chosen. I was thinking stick to the first tile to maximize confusion. Even if they reveal your tile, don't take it, just keep the series of letters being revealed in mind so that when they catch up you can just move forward as far as possible. When I saw this deathmatch in season 1, that was the first strategy I thought of. It only has a 50% chance of success (8 squares to a loss and 16 tiles on the board) but it's essentially a free opportunity for the person who starts in the lead. If your opponent gets lucky before you do then you can just play the game normally so why not go for it? Maybe it was just me but I felt that the main match was poorly played on the part of everyone other than Sangmin and he had the obvious strategy. Everyone else seemed to be flailing around lost and the alliances didn't recognize the inherent peril in the bidding structure. It's an interesting game where the overlapping interests of players could easily throw everyone off but no one was taking that into account.
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Jan 28, 2014 01:56
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Random Stranger posted:When I saw this deathmatch in season 1, that was the first strategy I thought of. It only has a 50% chance of success (8 squares to a loss and 16 tiles on the board) but it's essentially a free opportunity for the person who starts in the lead. If your opponent gets lucky before you do then you can just play the game normally so why not go for it? The thing is, it's not 50% at all. When Junghyun does this strategy, if Hongchul simply does the simple thing and tries letters one after the other (while Junghyun sticks to the same one), Hongchul automatically loses if any of : - His first pictogram is in the last 8 letters (Hongchul never advances and loses after opening 8 letters) - His 2 first pictograms are the last 7 letters (Hongchul only advances once, and loses after opening 9 letters) - His 3 first pictograms are in the last 6 letters I computed the last case to about 75%, so that means Junghyun's strategy (if he follows his thoroughly, which he always should) wins around 80% of the time after 10 rounds. And after that, even if he doesn't outright win, Junghyun probably has a small advantage. Running With Spoons fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 02:12
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I think the easiest and fairest way to "fix" the Death Match this week would be to Show both contestants the actual positions of the pieces for about 30 seconds before starting, and then only after they've all been flipped back to letters, reveal the starting blocks you actually have to find. Then it becomes an actual memorization game.
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Jan 28, 2014 02:23
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