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I mean we did know that religion was going to take a significant part of this CYOA, based on the title alone. So it is pretty par for the course to have two or three camps of varying beliefs that are pretty acrimonious to each other when it comes to lil Ogkindel and what he believes. When we were a child, we learned about Asherah through beatings and lessons by Sushem and about the Melachim/Sky giants through Jalitha. It's not like we just heard about El from Tudiya the night he grabbed us and we forsook everything. Up until sometime in Zepath we were still straddling between the beliefs, based on the belief vote trends. A fair assessment of Enkidel's beliefs would likely that he mostly believes in El and the orthodox religion, knows that something is slightly off but won't rock the boat until he has more information, and has a small but worrisome urge to eat those he loves and dreams of the Deep Ones.
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Jan 31, 2014 21:35
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Or maybe Enkidel won't rock the boat until a hot witch promises to tell him who his daddy is and how to shoot fish lasers.
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Jan 31, 2014 21:49
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D, H gotta do right by El.
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Jan 31, 2014 21:55
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Tsyni posted:When people jumped hard onto the El bandwagon I initially assumed it was because of how belief worked in Madgod and people assuming it works the same way here. It seems so disconnected to me, but I know I am in the minority. I think we've got plenty of evidence that this El figure is real though, but that there might be some disinformation as to what or who El is. Personally, it seems to me that yes El is real and there have been evidence so far that faith in him is something that pays out and I believe we (enkidu) should continue to believe in El because he has given us so much that it would be foolish of us to stop believeing in him and praising him whenever we have a chance. Team El represent!
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Jan 31, 2014 22:15
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Here's the way I see Enkidel's belief in El: Tudiya and Jalitha see El as the be-all end-all, supreme deity etc etc. Enkidel...doesn't. He believes in El, believes El is immensely powerful, has witnessed El's power at work through Tudiya, Ishamal and Zebanetha to name a few. He believes in the morals that El espouses, that it's important to protect the weak and be good to folks and all that. But, he also knows there is more to the story. He has personally interacted with pieces that we don't know how to fit into the puzzle yet. So sure, maybe we don't see El as the final answer to everything, but we still believe in the ideals he set forth and try to do right by them.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:23
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Greggster posted:I think we've got plenty of evidence that this El figure is real though, but that there might be some disinformation as to what or who El is. Personally, it seems to me that yes El is real and there have been evidence so far that faith in him is something that pays out and I believe we (enkidu) should continue to believe in El because he has given us so much that it would be foolish of us to stop believeing in him and praising him whenever we have a chance. We've seen plenty of evidence that Melachim exist. El hasn't given us poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:29
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Speleothing posted:We've seen plenty of evidence that Melachim exist. El hasn't given us poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:32
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Speleothing posted:We've seen plenty of evidence that Melachim exist. El hasn't given us poo poo. During the manhood trial, El gladly accepted our offer in a great shower of flame.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:40
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My short take on El theism. Note, I think the creation story in the OP is true, although vague. Melachim are obviously real. El is real, but no one really understands it/him beyond some general rules , like do not destroy. The stories about El, creation, etc are true and mostly accurate. El created the world. Created melachem who filled the world. El created man. There are important omissions in the story of creation and Labaras. My speculation: I believe the omission from the creation story and of Labaras are related. Labaras was a normal man. He followed his goat into the desert and met Azzazel--we know this from Ishamal--and Azzazel gave Labaras his powers and knowledge for some reason--maybe because Labaras was a pious man. Azzazel's deed causes other Melachim to take a more active role with humans. There power drastically changed human history and established the Elisian people. Unfortunately, while Labaras was a great and pious man who used his gift wisely, his descendants were not always so pious. Using their powers and influence, they waged unprecedented war on each other. The Angel weeping in the OP creation story is weeping over the suffering they have inadvertently created I the world. In Response, The Melachim establish rules on how they may interfere I human lives, which explains why they no longer walk among men like they did in the old stories. I am also of the opinion that demons are created by human strife, suffering, malice, human sacrifice, etc
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Jan 31, 2014 22:46
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Apparently sitting down and having a chit chat with a Melachim is extremely rare in this day and age. It seems possible that even Bareen's messages were hidden auguries like our "a storm is coming" message and subject to much interpretation. We have direct proof of Melachim, but pretty much everyone else is basing it on observed effects rather than any direct contact or evidence. This means for virtually everyone else we have met in the world their relationship to Melachim matches ours to El, in which we have no direct evidence and can only speculate about the influence on things such as Tudiya finding us, demonstrable heroic powers, etc. What we do know is that many of the people we know who have some sort 'power' from Tudiya, Ishamal, Zebantha to Indor believe that it is sourced in whatever El means to them. This message brought to you by Team 
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Jan 31, 2014 22:49
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Sogol posted:What we do know is that many of the people we know who have some sort 'power' from Tudiya, Ishamal, Zebantha to Indor believe that it is sourced in whatever El means to them. I'm still of the opinion that the non-Blooded may be able to attain Mighty-like status and abilities through doing things pleasing to El. The effects may not be obvious if we're simply looking for height and strength when other unknown abilities exist.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:56
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HiHo ChiRho posted:A fair assessment of Enkidel's beliefs would likely that he mostly believes in El and the orthodox religion, knows that something is slightly off but won't rock the boat until he has more information, and has a small but worrisome urge to eat those he loves and dreams of the Deep Ones. This is me right here. I've never been firmly in El's camp and several times have actively petitioned NOT to pray to El for every drat little thing. I'm definitely not a member of Team El. This last vote though, and the couple before it? I've voted stating I believe in El. Why? I think based on experience Enkidel would have a fairly strong belief in El right now, with some questions as HiHo mentions. A very brief summary of our possible beings of worship: Asherah - tried to eat us. Doesn't care about us - this is the main tenant of the religion. Shushem beat us when there weren't rare moments of kindness. Melachim - Bareen stated she worshipped them, and whether or not she actually did believe what she was saying, she turned out to be a pretty big rear end in a top hat. That has to leave a bad taste in our mouth about Melachim worship. Also, demons under the city. Paebel likes Melachim - but why? We should find out and maybe this belief system will hold more water. El - Tudiya and Ishamal and Jalitha and just about every positive figure in our life thinks El is swell. The argument can be made that we aren't sure if El has helped us directly - but he also hasn't actively harmed us that I can remember. It just seems to me that if he is going to believe in something (which given the setting everyone does pretty much), all signs point to him believing in El, but at the same time thinking there's missing pieces. None of the other choices have given him much reason to want to worship them right now. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 22:56
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Zybourne Clock posted:During the manhood trial, El gladly accepted our offer in a great shower of flame. Our rear end getting smote after we stuffed Snarls' soul back into his body, the healing light that appeared when the Priest's of El brought yer man back from the dead, and the flames that appeared when we offered the pearls after our trial can all also be pretty safely attributed to El. (Or at least can be better attributed to him than any other likely party at this point.) So, yea, it's not like people have decided Enki should have El faith out of nowhere. But more to the point, is just kind of makes sense for a kid that's been living in an El-centric theocracy for so long to pick up the religion. Plus, you know, his first god tried to eat him. Then Bareen built her Temple with suspicious Demon access. And Indor, to be blunt, is kinda weirdly into us being her apprentice in a way that's uncomfortably Bareen like. So, yea, El by default. FWIW I do think we're savvy enough to still have an open mind despite that though, and not to follow the Orthodoxy blindly. Which should prove interesting in the days to come, especially if we try to introduce reforms to the theology at some point way, way down the road. Preview Edit: What TaskManager just said, basically. FoxTerrier fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 23:01
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Volmarias posted:Diogenes, how deep into the cave would you estimate we and the Balls have gone, given our speed? You jogged for five or maybe ten minutes? Tough to say. Chasing them at the lead of your men, blood flying is all rather exiting! We will update tonight, I will start in a few hours, I have some things to do first.
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Jan 31, 2014 23:32
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Tsyni posted:When people jumped hard onto the El bandwagon I initially assumed it was because of how belief worked in Madgod and people assuming it works the same way here. It seems so disconnected to me, but I know I am in the minority. Diog was pretty clear this wasn't going to be the same as Madgod from the get go with that stuff wasn't he? My El votes are because in this universe I believe it and I want Enkidel to believe in it too!
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Jan 31, 2014 23:44
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Pladdicus posted:Diog was pretty clear this wasn't going to be the same as Madgod from the get go with that stuff wasn't he? He was yes, I am just telling you what my impression was. Even if he told us that it doesn't stop people from being influenced by the faith = power aspect of the Madgod game. It's just puzzling to me, even still, that people are that gung-ho about El. It's hard to decide whether this society that Enkidel is currently in was shaped by El, or shaped El to it. Either way, apparently El doesn't mind slavery and the domination of the patriarchy. You can say that these people are primitive and this is an imaginary world and blah blah blah, but if this is really what El is all about then he's a shoddy god. If Enkidel had grown up in this society then I might have a harder time resisting El worship, but it seems to me that Enkidel is in a unique position where he's experienced many supernatural things, and many powers at play, and it is incredibly plausible that he'd be uncertain. The strongest proof of El was our sacrifice in the wilds. Bareen's assertion that it was Ishamal casts a bit of doubt on it, but out of everything we've seen this is the only thing that gives me pause. Anything else could have been Melachim or just plain old super powers. Even if he is real I think we should lead Asherah to his gates and eat him.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:03
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I hold fast to the idea that since El exists in this world, and he is good, and worth worship (and the above is true) much of it is misinterpreted. Not down with the patriarchy, or slavery, but the general goodliness. A young adults reconciliation of religion basically! Is there a solid bible? or is it just word of the priest?
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Feb 1, 2014 00:08
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I've never been a big fan of El-centric paths, but El bandwagoning in this case doesn't really strike me as out of place. The question with G/H is primarily one of whether or not we believe calling out to El will produce good results, and regardless of what we think El is, Enkindel definitely would have come to that conclusion by now. Whatever El might be, people certainly seem to get power through it, and expressing allegiance can swing things in your favour. He absolutely has faith in El as something real, that will help if you believe. Doesn't mean he necessarily has faith in El as the Final Answer to everything. Considering the company and society he's in right now, it's no surprise El comes up a lot, and there's no real reason not to believe in its influence.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:13
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The closest thing they have to a bible is word of mouth and paintings/statues of Labaras beating up monsters and Enkidu being seduced. Basically a better bible that doesn't disappoint every page.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:14
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Debt slavery seems to me like a pretty decent way of getting out of trouble when you're so down low you can't do poo poo about it, rather that instead of starving. Question for Diog ; When you've become a debt slave, is the only way to get back into freedom by waiting for the event where every slave is set free, or does slave "work up" their debt so that they become free when they've paid back what they owed?
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Feb 1, 2014 00:20
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Tsyni posted:The strongest proof of El was our sacrifice in the wilds. Bareen's assertion that it was Ishamal casts a bit of doubt on it, but out of everything we've seen this is the only thing that gives me pause. Anything else could have been Melachim or just plain old super powers. I think the whole point of El is the semi coincidences that happened to us:
That's not to say that these could have been some machinations of Melachim. From what we know of the religion, El does not directly intervene but sends his Melachim to people's aid when we pray. It would make sense that the above happened like it did because he wants to help but can't. Maybe El prefers/needs worship based strictly on faith and not worship based on his actions towards people. That being said, Maybe it wasn't always this way? Maybe El doesn't intervene in humanity's affairs now for past transgressions against the divine. Or maybe it's because we are his creations that have mortality and free will, while Melachim have immortality and no choice in their decisions.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:25
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I hope my vote passes Diog's faith tracker test  I've waffled on the El issue several times. Mostly based on if El's been helping Enki lately. After being saved from Bareen though; I've been convinced. El is real and he's got humanity's back. Whoever or whatever he is. I kinda wonder if Jorah-mask might be El; because of some of the things he said about being nice to others and not going over board with it. Then I remember the voice we heard when we were really young and I think maybe that was the voice of El so El can't be Jorah-mask. Ultimately, I think Enki doesn't have enough information to know how things really work - and that's by design. There are some things about El and the Melachim we have to take on faith (or not take as individual voters). I'm okay with that, because they pretty obviously have the long term good of mankind in mind. While I'm talking about how rad El is; I'll take this opportunity to say that Tudiya deserves a peace prize. Even furious at Bareen and her followers he showed overwhelming mercy.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:50
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With your exceptional hearing, you hear them further ahead in the cavern. Perhaps a hundred paces off, or two hundred? The smell is especially terrible as you close upon their source. You see in the flickering torch light crude images of animals and goblins painted and cut to the walls of the tunnel. You do not speak goblin, if they do indeed have a language but if you had to guess what the goblins further ahead are saying, the conversation probably involves hundreds of goblins raising the alarm. There is a noticeable air current here, there must be a sizeable cavern ahead. You yell to your men as you charge. "My balls! Many lay ahead! Advance till the tunnel ends, stand in it's exit and prepare for slaughter!" You point your spear ahead and cry out "EEELLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!" as you run, your men echo your cry. "ELLLL!" "ELLLL!" "EEEELLL!!!" Your heart is beating and thumping in your chest as you run and the jingling sound of your armor and that of your men, their footfalls upon the stone tunnel form an symphony as you. The goblins add their own notes to the chorus, you hear them and in a moment you see them as they flood into the tunnel in front of you. One falls swiftly to your spear and others of the green swarm in front of you fall to your men as they push over the beasts with their spears and shields, their blood spilling and their bones crunching beneath your feet.  You and your men push down the tunnel as a flood of goblins comes from ahead of you. Twenty, thirty, fourty goblins are demolished by the advance of your men and as you reach the edge of the tunnel, you see what lay beyond it and hundreds more coming your way.  Your men have stopped just beyond the very edge of the tunnel, the tunnel and rock wall protecting your rear. From the corner of your eye, a goblin leaps down from a perch at you, screaming, a primitive club raised and murder in it's eyes.  You raise your left arm to block the goblin with your shield and as you do... the goblin hangs in the air. All around you seems to have slowed down and then, frozen entirely, the sounds around you stretching and then fully. Before when... whatever it is that happened, happened... you saw all move slowly but you moved slowly as well. Not this time. You do not feel slow. You feel fast. You feel... strong. You... A. Smash the goblin with your shield as hard as you can! B. Block the goblin with your shield. C. Block the goblin with your shield and try to calm down. D. Focus on calming down and do nothing. It is one goblin and those around you can dispatch it. E. Something else.  We will update at least one more time tonight. If you want to, feel free to join us on irc #madgod on synirc.net. The channel tends to always have some people in it and is especially active when updates go up. If you do not know what IRC is, here is a web based chat version which will not require you to register or download anything: http://chat.mibbit.com/ Diogines fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 00:57
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Tsyni fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 01:05
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A. Smash the goblin. If we get the chance, also voting to embrace the bullet-time thing and smash as many goblins as we can. This should get the attention of our balls.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:06
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No sight of the Ogre? I wonder if we should challenge it like the king and Spawn. That worked out well, but we would probably die horribly. I am worried about this bullet time. We have been told MANY times to stop doing this, and we have caught our soul on fire at least once. This would be a bad time for something like that.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:08
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will blow your mind.
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C2- Focus on calming down. There are times we need our powers. But I don't think this is one of those times.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:08
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C. Block the goblin with your shield and try to calm down. If we do something really cool it should be against the ogre and not a single goblin. That being said we can't do cool stuff if we're dead so don't die.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:09
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Stop being soft, C-voters.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:11
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C - we are NOT wasting Super Arrow Time on a goblin. Save that poo poo for the boss fight.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:12
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Klingtron posted:C. Block the goblin with your shield and try to calm down. Yeah Compromise here. get into a defensible position and calm down. e: Also voting for a multitude of things without bolding them, because that makes DCBomb go carazy HiHo ChiRho fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 01:14
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 1 Save for times of hardship, but that means saving ourselves and our secret healing potions too.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:15
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....we had 2 Cs >< Fixed the letters, sorry!
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Feb 1, 2014 01:19
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C, with the assumption that this action will not expend energy. Save our strength for the serious stuff.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:20
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Klingtron posted:C. Block the goblin with your shield and try to calm down. Seconded. I wonder if what we're feeling is the result of the strong pro-El faith vote we just cast. In that case, this may be a gift from El, and using our Might might not actually hurt us this time. Still, it's not a risk I want to take unless we really have to. If we're wrong, and it's just a different manifestation of our regular Might, then this isn't really the time or place to accidentally self immolate or go on a feeding frenzy. It will be very interesting to see if we feel hungry after calming down though. drat we really should have made time to have a 'Your Body and You' talk with Tudiya before we left. Might is weird.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:21
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Yeah C. Don't waste awesome power on this idiot fucker.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:22
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E. Whip our dick out and slap that that goblin so hard across the face that its skull cracks open.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:25
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the_steve posted:C - we are NOT wasting Super Arrow Time on a goblin. Save that poo poo for the boss fight.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:27
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A. Let's give them a show of force!
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Feb 1, 2014 01:29
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Sogol posted:This message is brought to you by Team You just might be my favorite team sperg member. Imma start a count https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahwwg41Ta-pndHltR1hUaDRUdkZRWVZxSTcyTzd2MUE&usp=drive_web#gid=0
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