|
Defiance Industries posted:Holy poo poo, you mean XI was actually once worse than the abomination I played with it's forced grouping and enormous time sinks? I think we're just seeing a lot of people exhibiting signs of digital Stockholm Syndrome.
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:21 |
|
|
The White Dragon posted:I guess it depends on who you ask. I played back in 09-10 and it was a pretty miserable experience filled with tryhards and poopsockers, but I was also told that it was several magnitudes better than what it had been a couple years earlier, and better still than it was at release. I fired it up again about a year ago since a few friends were playing, but I didn't see much of a difference despite players claiming that it was, again, worlds better than it had been back when the level cap was in the 70s. I recall reading that the original horrible director was taken off the game for it to be fixed by the guy that fixed 14, but after he was done they put the original buy back in charge and he started loving things back up again. So many the shittiness ebbed and flowed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:I fired it up again about a year ago since a few friends were playing, but I didn't see much of a difference despite players claiming that it was, again, worlds better than it had been back when the level cap was in the 70s. Within the last couple months, 11 has implemented: -XP-granting miniquests you can activate any time you want (on top of Fields/Grounds of Valor) including timed objectives that give even more, easing the 1-30 grind prior to Abyssea's infinite experience train - you can now essentially grind 1-99 in about two weeks with moderate effort -The bonus currency you get from aforementioned miniquests can quickly and easily gear you up to the point where you can solo all but the final battles of pre-Abyssea content -Ability to summon three AI-controlled party members virtually anywhere (even if the AI is... strange, at best) for pocket heals, tanking and extra damage -The old, useless-rear end Artifact armor that was almost universally terrible even in 2004 can get refurbished into some of the best equipment currently in the game -You can now teleport between homepoint crystals for 500 gil. Any homepoint. They even inserted extra homepoints specifically for easier transportation. With the next update or two, they're also finally addressing the enmity fixes and adding one of the Summoner avatars that's been promised for years. Schwartzcough posted:I recall reading that the original horrible director was taken off the game for it to be fixed by the guy that fixed 14, but after he was done they put the original buy back in charge and he started loving things back up again. So many the shittiness ebbed and flowed. Tanaka has been gone for about a year and a half now. His grisly vision of game design still remains in places (loving Voidwatch) but Matsui's been slowly cleaning up the mess. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 01:35
|
|
|
Hiromichi Tanaka's ideas on game design are... really odd, to put it mildly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 01:57
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:I guess it depends on who you ask. I played back in 09-10 and it was a pretty miserable experience filled with tryhards and poopsockers, but I was also told that it was several magnitudes better than what it had been a couple years earlier, and better still than it was at release. I fired it up again about a year ago since a few friends were playing, but I didn't see much of a difference despite players claiming that it was, again, worlds better than it had been back when the level cap was in the 70s. More than most MMOs your enjoyment of FFXI absolutely hinged on having a large, consistent, solid group of people to do stuff with. If you had that, then it was pretty good and you could probably derive enjoyment no matter what time period you were playing it in (personal best period: ToAU launch and a couple years subsequent). If you didn't have that, then it was going to be terrible no matter what and there was a span of years before recent quality-of-life improvements where you were better off not playing it at all if you didn't know enough people to throw together a couple groups on occasion. Here's an analogy for anyone playing FFXIV: compare running an extreme primal in a premade group and running one in duty finder, and extrapolate that to all the content available, and that's more or less what the difference was. That more than anything attributes to the Stockholm Syndrome thing that is often bandied about when talking of FFXI: as the game aged the social circles on any given server (at least on my server) calcified into a few established large linkshells, or solid self-contained small-man groups that could get into larger things run by those linkshells on occasion by knowing a guy who knows a guy. People inside and people outside were practically playing different games entirely, and anyone just reaching endgame at any point in the last 5 years or coming back after a long pause would have had a lot of difficulty getting into those circles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 01:58
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:But they just released Bravely Default? Not a FF game just like Seiken Denetsu and the SaGa series aren't.  That loving Sned posted:Yeah, I'd rather play a dumb, pretty, linear series of battles than go through Final Fantasy II again. Also, I haven't played them, but I heard the original releases of XI and XIV were absolutely dire. XI was improved a lot for the Western release, but XIV had to be rebuilt entirely before it became a good game. You can blow through Final Fantasy II in much less time thankfully. The iOS version is also a better game than FF III was and it was made before Square went full retard on their mobile FF games. In FF2 just grab a couple spell books and get a level 3-4 spell on Maria and run dual shields and no armor on Firion/Guy. Get Minsc, kill some captains until Toad drops, and maybe go north a bit to kill ogres for Berserk and some Wizard staves. Once done proceed to walk through the entire game since 3-4 staves per round will do 100+ damage to everything and once you have toad leveled well it won't matter, you just toad everything or Berserk someone and let them cut holes in whatever's in the way. Final Fantasy II is bad, but it's an easily broken bad game at least. People who compare MMOs to other games are just off in their own world though. You might as well complain about how World of Warcraft lacked the tactical depth of Warcraft III.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
FFXIII is Ride to Hell: Retribution levels of bad
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 03:40
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:FFXIII is Ride to Hell: Retribution levels of bad Er, I hate the game, but I wouldn't go that far. (I've played Lunar Dragon Song. There are worse JRPGs.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 03:43
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:FFXIII is Ride to Hell: Retribution levels of bad But Ride to Hell's badness is enjoyable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 03:50
|
|
|
Eh. I tried the demo for Lightning Returns and I'm interested in how everything will go. It does look pretty so, bonus points for that I guess. All that's left is whether I'll be pre-ordering the game or waiting for the price to drop. At the very least I think it's better than the FF13 and 13-2, but I'm okay with those games so whatever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:11
|
|
|
Camel Pimp posted:Er, I hate the game, but I wouldn't go that far. (I've played Lunar Dragon Song. There are worse JRPGs.) Shut up. Jut shut the gently caress up. Every single time since you started your LP of Lunar 2 I've managed to forget Dragon Song ever existed until you keep bringing it back up. Please man, come on. Do you time these things or something? Do you get out of bed at a preconceived time and say: "WELP, I'm gonna go remind the world that Dragon Song was a thing!" loving walking draining your health. loving boring rear end plot and boring rear end characters. Why does the goddess, who has always had blue hair, appear as a pink haired girl? There are tons of stuff that I'd managed to bury about this dreadful entry into one of my most loved video game series, that you just keep tearing the scars open on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:30
|
|
|
You know, you could have just told him to go gently caress himself for reminding you of the game, and not write so many words about it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:32
|
|
|
FFXIII is overly linear and has a dumb plot. When poo poo like Last Rebellion or Hyperdimensional Neptunia (just this generation alone) I can't legitimately imagine holding it up as the gold standard of bad. It's possible for a game to be kinda meh without it being the Worst Game Ever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:44
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Shut up. Jut shut the gently caress up. Every single time since you started your LP of Lunar 2 I've managed to forget Dragon Song ever existed until you keep bringing it back up. Please man, come on. Do you time these things or something? Do you get out of bed at a preconceived time and say: "WELP, I'm gonna go remind the world that Dragon Song was a thing!" loving walking draining your health. loving boring rear end plot and boring rear end characters. Why does the goddess, who has always had blue hair, appear as a pink haired girl? There are tons of stuff that I'd managed to bury about this dreadful entry into one of my most loved video game series, that you just keep tearing the scars open on. I'm going to order Dragon Song off Amazon right now, thanks for this post.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:55
|
|
|
(Because I like Camel Pimp and greatly enjoy his LPs and I wanted to overexaggerate my annoyance so that he understands that I don't actually have any hard feelings toward him) (Camel Pimp, pls don't walk away, don't you hear me say, pls, oh baby, don't go, simple and clean is the way that yer making me feel tonight (but seriously, stop bringing up Dragon Song)).
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:56
|
|
|
I'm sorry! I don't have a decent reference pool for really bad games I've actually played! I try not to play them.The Machine posted:I'm going to order Dragon Song off Amazon right now, thanks for this post. Don't do that to yourself. ImpAtom posted:FFXIII is overly linear and has a dumb plot. When poo poo like Last Rebellion or Hyperdimensional Neptunia (just this generation alone) I can't legitimately imagine holding it up as the gold standard of bad. It's possible for a game to be kinda meh without it being the Worst Game Ever. At least no one praises those games (at least I have not personally seen them.) It still mystifies me that so many people can rush to the defense of FFXIII. If it weren't for the internet, I wouldn't remember a drat thing about it. And before anyone say "who's defending FFXIII" I've gotten plenty of poo poo on Tumblr. Pleeeenty. Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 04:59
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:FFXIII is overly linear and has a dumb plot. When poo poo like Last Rebellion or Hyperdimensional Neptunia (just this generation alone) I can't legitimately imagine holding it up as the gold standard of bad. It's possible for a game to be kinda meh without it being the Worst Game Ever. To me it's more a gold standard of bad when you take into account how long it took to make and what its development was like. For all the effort they put in, the end result is pretty poor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:00
|
|
|
Reading all of these Lightning Returns spoilers is even more humorous considering Lightning's English VA, Ali Hillis, also voiced Palutena in Kid Icarus: Uprising, who is a goddess. It's too bad Palutena couldn't be one of Lightning's costumes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:06
|
|
|
Camel Pimp posted:At least no one praises those games (at least I have not personally seen them.) It still mystifies me that so many people can rush to the defense of FFXIII. If it weren't for the internet, I wouldn't remember a drat thing about it. There is an entire fanbase of people who sustain Neptunia, dude. Also people defend XIII (Well ones who aren't like nuts) because of like of the gameplay or because other things don't bother them as much as others. It's generally universally accepted the story is terrible and most of the characters are bad, but the linearity and tutorial being ridiculous varies from person to person as most things do. I honestly don't see people rush to the defense of XIII beyond saying a few things in its favor, unless you are a certain poster who used to be here who is thankfully no longer with us. Momomo posted:To me it's more a gold standard of bad when you take into account how long it took to make and what its development was like. For all the effort they put in, the end result is pretty poor. It's astounding the actual gameplay and how the stage structure in each chapter is as good as it is. The game had to be revised so many times I'm amazed the levels are structured and based around certain things instead of being giant mishmashes of garbage like everything else in the game kinda is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:07
|
|
|
Camel Pimp posted:It still mystifies me that so many people can rush to the defense of FFXIII.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:08
|
|
|
Sex_Ferguson posted:I honestly don't see people rush to the defense of XIII beyond saying a few things in its favor, unless you are a certain poster who used to be here who is thankfully no longer with us. Oh I see persi posted in here too 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:10
|
|
|
Camel Pimp posted:At least no one praises those games (at least I have not personally seen them.) It still mystifies me that so many people can rush to the defense of FFXIII. If it weren't for the internet, I wouldn't remember a drat thing about it. Neptunia has more sequels than FFXIII. Just putting that one out there. It's really, really, really bad. Last Rebellion at least only got one game and it was so bad the company apologized for putting it out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:10
|
|
|
Sex_Ferguson posted:It's astounding the actual gameplay and how the stage structure in each chapter is as good as it is. The game had to be revised so many times I'm amazed the levels are structured and based around certain things instead of being giant mishmashes of garbage like everything else in the game kinda is. I'm not sure what you mean by stage structure, but I agree about the gameplay as far as the fights go. Considering they weren't even sure how it was going to work before they made the demo, it was surprisingly well balanced.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:21
|
|
|
Momomo posted:I'm not sure what you mean by stage structure, but I agree about the gameplay as far as the fights go. Considering they weren't even sure how it was going to work before they made the demo, it was surprisingly well balanced. That the enemies in the stage are where they should be and placed properly to not only teach you everything properly, stages don't go on for too long, and generally they're nice to look at. For as long as the tutorial is most areas manage very well to not overstay their welcome and teach you what they need to teach you through the enemies you encounter on the way to the destination.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:35
|
|
|
Level Slide posted:Reading all of these Lightning Returns spoilers is even more humorous considering Lightning's English VA, Ali Hillis, also voiced Palutena in Kid Icarus: Uprising, who is a goddess. It's too bad Palutena couldn't be one of Lightning's costumes. God I WISH a modern FF had half the personality and fun as Kid Icarus: Uprising. loving, just, imagine a FF with a Villain as funny/interesting/hate-able as Hades.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
For those that may care, it seems that FF VI is available on iOS now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 06:39
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:God I WISH a modern FF had half the personality and fun as Kid Icarus: Uprising. Not just a modern Final Fantasy, every game should strive to have even just a little bit of the personality and writing quality of Uprising. And voice direction. That game had incredible voice acting, which is not something I can say of FF13 or 13-2. It's very obvious when comparing actors that were in both.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 07:04
|
|
|
I thought the XIII games were getting progressively better?I only played XIII, but wasn't XIII-2 good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 07:10
|
|
|
Iron Casanova posted:I thought the XIII games were getting progressively better?I only played XIII, but wasn't XIII-2 good. No. It was less linear but that was about it. As far as LR, as I said, I'm going to be really interested to see responses to it. I think your feelings on the games really depend on what you liked/didn't like. If the nonlinearity of FFXIII was your biggest complaint than XIII-2 and especially XIII-3 fix that. If you liked the combat system than FFXIII-2 makes mechanical improvements but has much worse design. FFXIII-3 is probably the best middle ground but it's also a pretty different combat system and has a lot of weird mechanics which may or may not work for you. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 07:12
|
|
|
Here's Lara Croft Lightning for those that missed the video: 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 08:11
|
|
|
AllisonByProxy posted:Here's Lara Croft Lightning for those that missed the video: And I have now officially seen it all. It's all down hill from this point forward.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 08:21
|
|
|
I love the the weapon is an over sized version of Lara's climbing axe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 08:25
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:No. It was less linear but that was about it. As far as LR, as I said, I'm going to be really interested to see responses to it. Thanks for all this info on LR, it's been helpful. I've been thinking of picking it up since I really liked XIII but hated the mechanical changes in XIII-2 (and the somehow even worse storytelling), and it sounds more and more like this might be the better middle ground. About how long was LR, minus like super bosses and committing genocides in your down time?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 08:34
|
|
|
Great Lakes Log posted:Thanks for all this info on LR, it's been helpful. I've been thinking of picking it up since I really liked XIII but hated the mechanical changes in XIII-2 (and the somehow even worse storytelling), and it sounds more and more like this might be the better middle ground. I would say around 25-30 hours is probably a safe bet but I could easily see it going shorter or longer. I went a bit longer but I left the game idling for chunks of time. A lot of that is retreading the same ground though and I didn't use a FAQ or guide or anything which would probably cut down on the time a lot. As I said, there's a lot of stuff about the game which is going to be real like-it-or-hate-it. It is a very weird stew of a game. That is why I'm pretty curious about what the response is going to be. It's either going to be more positive than I'm expecting or more negative than I'm expecting and I'm not entirely sure which. If you're even a little unsure about it I'd wait and give up the Cloud costume or whatever the preorder stuff is. You'll get roughly nine billion outfits anyway. Edit: It's also worth noting that the game really does seem designed for multiple playthroughs, or at least with the idea that someone would play it multiple times. Once you finish the game once you unlock an upgrade system where you can improve your weapon and shield status using materials dropped by enemies. You also can upgrade accessories by refinding them in the NG+ and you can push the game up to Hard Mode which seems to contain exclusive weapons and Garbs. It also should be a remarkably easy Platinum/1000 Gamerscore. 90% of the stuff is just "finish the game" and the others are minor sidequests or beating one of the sub-bosses. I almost got a complete list just by playing the game normally. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:01
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:If there's a hat type you can get it. Top hats, berets, fedoras... I don't think there are any baseball caps sadly but I may have just missed them. I don't think I can resist screaming God is dead while wearing a fedora as an anime. It's like my life has been leading up to this point Defiance Industries posted:Holy poo poo, you mean XI was actually once worse than the abomination I played with it's forced grouping and enormous time sinks? The forced grouping in XI wasn't bad, and it helped forge a strong community. I'm still acquainted with people from all parts of the world from friendships built in XI. The real problem with XI's grouping was the Japanese players liked to only play with Japanese players, which made the English speaking ones get the same attitude. Which also lead the more obnoxious people to start joking about Hiroshima and basically foster hatred and made the game hard to play at times. The internet was XI's biggest flaw. MMO's are going to timesink though, that's the name of the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
So, I am still going through FF13 with Japanese audio and English subtitles to stave off the terrifyingly bad dub that ruined the game for me originally. And now I can say that gently caress everything about the parts where you are forced to play with only Sazh and Vanilla, how can two characters be so goddamned weak compared Lightning alone with some backup from Hope? It's just dreadful how long that part took me opposed to the 45 minutes the Lightning/Hope part took me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:38
|
|
|
ilifinicus posted:So, I am still going through FF13 with Japanese audio and English subtitles to stave off the terrifyingly bad dub that ruined the game for me originally. And now I can say that gently caress everything about the parts where you are forced to play with only Sazh and Vanilla, how can two characters be so goddamned weak compared Lightning alone with some backup from Hope? It's just dreadful how long that part took me opposed to the 45 minutes the Lightning/Hope part took me. What?? You have a Saboteur and a Synergist. They're literally the best classes in the game and really trivialize a lot of fights. The Sazh/Vanille parts are super easy!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:41
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:What?? You have a Saboteur and a Synergist. They're literally the best classes in the game and really trivialize a lot of fights. The Sazh/Vanille parts are super easy!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:42
|
|
|
ilifinicus posted:They don't deal damage! I don't wanna spend forever buffing! Please let me kill things. You don't have to spend forever buffing. They'll default to the strongest buffs and that will generally allow you to wreck anything. You don't need to apply every buff, just one or two.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:21 |
|
|
Just basically try to get Imperil on the enemies. You'll stagger them in no time with that on and from there it's nothing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:45
|
|