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  • Locked thread
User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

I think so? More monstrous for both parties, in any case. I don't remember Darth Sion to well, so I can't say for certain how accurate that would be. I wouldn't put Kreia in the same regard, as her relationship to the player was more mentor and friend, even if her intentions were sinister.

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Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011

by the sex ghost

Lt. Danger posted:

Actually I'm not certain the distaste for romance necessarily comes from poor writing or pornographic content. Certainly for me, personally, the choice to engage in a romance track or not is what I find uncomfortable - so the idea that "if you don't like it, don't play it" is actually the core problem.

I don't think anyone complains about the romance between the Prince and Farah in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (or between the Prince and Elika in the 2008 game) because it's part of the narrative rather than part of the gameplay. There's no sense of the player-insert manipulating the female lead because it's not a choice the player makes; any sex or romance that occurs is a story beat, not a reward for inputting the correct commands.

Compare to 1 1 1 4 1/3 1/2 1 1 1 1 1/2 1/2 1/2 1 1/2 1 1/2 1 1/2 1 1 2 3 2 2 3 2 2 1 1 1 1: the beautiful story of CHARNAME and Aerie's romance in BG2. I mean, it's been a while since I played either, but I doubt the writing in any of the above games is particularly better or worse than the others. But I reckon there's more objection to the Aerie romance story and all the Bioware romance subplots that it spawned, in part at least because it's all entangled with the ludological aspect of the game.

All that said, generally though there's probably a healthy dose of misogyny/tribalism infecting this issue, where largely male asocial gamers feel threatened by largely female social-orientated gamers, but that's a bigger problem altogether.

Honestly I think this is just a difference in how you and I are playing the game. To me, describing the choices you make in a game while role playing the character as inputting commands and manipulating the actors is just really strange. I mean, I understand that mechanically that is really what you're doing, but I usually get immersed in RPGs and end up forgetting that the mechanical aspect is there. I think I understand your viewpoint better now.

I play games like Baldur's Gate or Skyrim or whatever because I want to be immersed. I like getting into character, figuring out what my avatar's motivations and backstory are, characterizing their personality, etc. I'll often end up creating dozens of characters to complete an RPG because I deliberately avoid doing things that are out of character for my PC. (unless I'm doing a speed/completionist run, but at that point the whole game ends up being 1 4 1 3 1 2 2 2 4 5 1 1 3 on autopilot regardless of what part of the plot I'm on because I've already done everything) I don't feel like a romance or a friendship dialog or whatever is a reward for picking the right choices, I feel like it's getting to know the characters my character knows better, and getting to know my character better. I feel like a CRPG can tell a richer story than a book or movie because I get to have a hand in it, not as myself, but as an actor playing a character.

To be honest, what burns my rear end about videogame romances is that they're just a footnote. A romance is the kind of thing you build a whole story around, even if it's a subplot, it should be a major part of the game. You should be building up a partnership with the character, it should be a constant presence in the plot if your character is romantically involved with somebody, because that's how those stories work in stories in film and literature. What we end up getting instead is five or six conversations through a 60 hour game followed by an awkward sex scene and a "repeat that awkward sex scene" button.

I agree completely with what ropekid said earlier - if you're not going to put the time and effort required into it, it's just a waste of time. I haven't done every videogame romance ever or anything, but I think BGII was the closest to getting it right. Baldur's Gate failed by making too many binary choices and by having really, really poor writing. Aerie's romance in particular was uncomfortable to sit through even for 14 year old me and I never managed to even make it to the half-way mark. I'm just disappointed by the choice to not include it, because I think POE was the game most likely to do what I wanted to see done, by the development team most likely to do it right.

Arkeus posted:

A bit disappointed about the lack of stretch goals- does this mean Obsidian thinks it can do most of it without aditional funding from more backers, or will the game have a very limited numbers of outdoors areas?

If I had to take a guess I would bet that this has a lot more to do with the projected release date being so far out already. I doubt they want to hire a whole bunch of extra people to complete new stretch goals, their project managers have to be overloaded as it is and the more people you throw at something the harder it is to maintain consistent quality. At this point I think it'd be better to aim for completing the game on time and releasing postgame DLC (Because really, what's the difference between pitching extra money into the game's development, and buying a 5 dollar DLC?) than to continue bloating the project and extending the release date by a bit more every new goal. I mean, there's a point where people will eventually just lose interest in the project, and I imagine Obsidian wants to maximize the game's chances at success on the market at release as much as possible.

Mirthless fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Feb 12, 2014

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011

by the sex ghost
edit: double post sorry

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

AriadneThread posted:

So Godlike are 'blessed' at birth people, but I'm wondering, is that just humans are do the other sentient species also have their own variants? Or do Godlike end up the same basic humanoid shape regardless of parents?
Godlike can be born to parents of any race. When you create a godlike character, we plan to support selection of any racial "subtype".

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Arkeus posted:

A bit disappointed about the lack of stretch goals- does this mean Obsidian thinks it can do most of it without aditional funding from more backers, or will the game have a very limited numbers of outdoors areas?
I think we'll be good on the number of outdoor areas. We don't have BG-levels of wilderness, but I don't think many people wanted that.

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011

by the sex ghost
Walking through identical forest tiles with a slightly different placement of Ettercaps and Spiders was rad as hell man I don't know what you're talkin' about. :downs:

AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.


rope kid posted:

Godlike can be born to parents of any race. When you create a godlike character, we plan to support selection of any racial "subtype".

That's cool! I was half expecting them to be restricted to one 'subtype' if for nothing else but budget/asset reasons. If you can pull that off though, that's pretty neat.

Scorchy
Jul 15, 2006

Smug Statement: Elementary, my dear meatbag.
My problem with the Godlike is they're way too awesome looking, why would people play anything else

One Legged Cat
Aug 31, 2004

DAY I GOT COOKIE

Scorchy posted:

My problem with the Godlike is they're way too awesome looking, why would people play anything else

That's for the second and third playthroughs!

e: Or in my case, I wanna play a more 'normal' race the first time through, so that when I play a cool rare sparkly character the second time around, it'll feel more *special*

One Legged Cat fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Feb 12, 2014

SurrealityCheck
Sep 15, 2012

rope kid posted:

Godlike can be born to parents of any race. When you create a godlike character, we plan to support selection of any racial "subtype".

As a rough guideline, what are the tradeoffs for being a godlike?

One Legged Cat
Aug 31, 2004

DAY I GOT COOKIE

SurrealityCheck posted:

As a rough guideline, what are the tradeoffs for being a godlike?

You can't legally marry in any of the nations where the game takes place. You can live together, but not get any tax benefits.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Scorchy posted:

My problem with the Godlike is they're way too awesome looking, why would people play anything else
Some people don't like weirdos.

SurrealityCheck posted:

As a rough guideline, what are the tradeoffs for being a godlike?
They currently all have bonuses to their Dexterity and Resolve. Each subtype (Death, Nature, etc.) has a different passive bonus. They can't wear any headgear. Some people treat them with great reverence but others think they are gross and weird, so the reactions are kind of a wash, overall.

SurrealityCheck
Sep 15, 2012

One Legged Cat posted:

You can't legally marry in any of the nations where the game takes place. You can live together, but not get any tax benefits.

Hmm. The emotional part of me says yes, but the accountant says no...

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

I always had a soft spot for this guy:

Who, thanks to the mask and the absence of scale, can be pretty much anybody up to and including Tilde Swinton.

SurrealityCheck
Sep 15, 2012

rope kid posted:

Some people don't like weirdos.
They currently all have bonuses to their Dexterity and Resolve. Each subtype (Death, Nature, etc.) has a different passive bonus. They can't wear any headgear. Some people treat them with great reverence but others think they are gross and weird, so the reactions are kind of a wash, overall.

Sweet. For reference, do base humans have any bonuses or are they zero penalty zero bonus?

Airfoil
Sep 10, 2013

I'm a rocket man
"What does winter mean?"

Sigh.

HamHawkes
Jan 25, 2014

rope kid posted:

Slash, pierce, crush, burn, freeze, corrode, and shock.

So what about earth related spells like earthquake or rock skin?

Bettik
Jan 28, 2008

Space-age Rock Star

Airfoil posted:

"What does winter mean?"

Sigh.

Admittedly, winter means July / August for me... I somehow doubt that's what they have in mind for a release date. So it might be worth being a little bit more specific (or less hemisphere-specific :P)

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

rope kid posted:

They can't wear any headgear.

Does this mean that they can't wear anything in the helmet slot or they just don't get a graphic for when one is equipped? If they can't wear a helmet, is that not considered a significant loss, and everyone could go without helmets without concern?

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

SurrealityCheck posted:

Sweet. For reference, do base humans have any bonuses or are they zero penalty zero bonus?
Humans currently have a bonus to Might and Resolve and a passive ability called Fighting Spirit.

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.

Airfoil posted:

"What does winter mean?"

Sigh.

Check your antipodean privilege.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Irobot82 posted:

So what about earth related spells like earthquake or rock skin?
Rock-y damage spells are usually classified as Crush.

Lotish posted:

Does this mean that they can't wear anything in the helmet slot or they just don't get a graphic for when one is equipped? If they can't wear a helmet, is that not considered a significant loss, and everyone could go without helmets without concern?
They can't wear anything in their head slot. This is not necessarily a dramatic loss, but there are a few nice items that can go in that slot.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

You could argue about it but northern hemisphere seasons typically go Winter (Dec-Feb) Spring (March-May) Summer (June-August) Autumn (Sept-Nov). Late 2014, is what it means. Some places have lopsided seasons, some places don't really have seasons at all, some have wet and dry seasons.

This game is already pretty metal

The Crotch
Oct 16, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Weirdo supremacy.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

rope kid posted:

They can't wear anything in their head slot. This is not necessarily a dramatic loss, but there are a few nice items that can go in that slot.
So if other races also get two stat bonuses and a passive ability, but Godlike can't wear headgear, from a minmax perspective it sounds like picking a Godlike leaves you worse off than a regular race?

HamHawkes
Jan 25, 2014

rope kid posted:

Rock-y damage spells are usually classified as Crush.
They can't wear anything in their head slot. This is not necessarily a dramatic loss, but there are a few nice items that can go in that slot.

Huh, it didn't even occur to me. I always thought of rock type spells as elemental and crush type as weapon damage not spell damage. So do other elemental type spells also have other damage types? Like and icicle spear type spell being ice and piercing?

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Cicero posted:

So if other races also get two stat bonuses and a passive ability, but Godlike can't wear headgear, from a minmax perspective it sounds like picking a Godlike leaves you worse off than a regular race?
Their passives are a little more spectacular than normalfolk.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Irobot82 posted:

Huh, it didn't even occur to me. I always thought of rock type spells as elemental and crush type as weapon damage not spell damage. So do other elemental type spells also have other damage types? Like and icicle spear type spell being ice and piercing?
Some spells are like that, yes.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

rope kid posted:

Their passives are a little more spectacular than normalfolk.
Cool, gotcha.

spider wisdom
Nov 4, 2011

og data bandit
Latest interior images have mega ToEE vibes. :allears:

The Crotch
Oct 16, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Hey rope kid, you mentioned elves have the whole long-lived thing going on. Do they also have the thirty-years-of-puberty thing going on? That always just... kinda bugged me, y'know?

Airfoil
Sep 10, 2013

I'm a rocket man

TG-Chrono posted:

Check your antipodean privilege.

North siiiiiiiiide.

GetWellGamers
Apr 11, 2006

The Get-Well Gamers Foundation: Touching Kids Everywhere!

Irobot82 posted:

Huh, it didn't even occur to me. I always thought of rock type spells as elemental and crush type as weapon damage not spell damage. So do other elemental type spells also have other damage types? Like and icicle spear type spell being ice and piercing?

rope kid posted:

Some spells are like that, yes.


:woop:

I don't think any RPG has ever married these concepts, have they? Like, elements are always just elements, whether you're flinging stone spikes at them or dropping a mountain on their heads.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Irobot82 posted:

Huh, it didn't even occur to me. I always thought of rock type spells as elemental and crush type as weapon damage not spell damage. So do other elemental type spells also have other damage types? Like and icicle spear type spell being ice and piercing?
Obviously, earth spells should be crush/filthy, doing bonus damage to characters with an OCD 'perk' or who have a high fashion stat.

Tajerio
Feb 7, 2014

rope kid posted:

Humans currently have a bonus to Might and Resolve and a passive ability called Fighting Spirit.

Glad to be getting away from the "humans are just jacks-of-all-trades, you know?" thing.

Bettik
Jan 28, 2008

Space-age Rock Star
Man that latest update looks good. I don't think there's anything about the game that's been released so far that I don't like. Pretty impressive, considering the legacy it's building on!

Cynic Jester
Apr 11, 2009

Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

Airfoil posted:

North siiiiiiiiidhe.

Fixed that for you.

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009

GetWellGamers posted:

:woop:

I don't think any RPG has ever married these concepts, have they? Like, elements are always just elements, whether you're flinging stone spikes at them or dropping a mountain on their heads.

D&D 3rd edition and on has some spells like that and basically use the same damage categories with some more esoteric damage types like positive and negative energy, sonic damage, and concussive force.

The Crotch
Oct 16, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Yeah, D&D sometimes gives spells physical damage. Of course, they never interact with armour in any way. Pick up a piece of metal and stab a dude with it and you have to make an attack roll. Summon a piece of metal into existence and hurl it at a dude and he's lucky if he gets a reflex save.

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AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009

The Crotch posted:

Yeah, D&D sometimes gives spells physical damage. Of course, they never interact with armour in any way. Pick up a piece of metal and stab a dude with it and you have to make an attack roll. Summon a piece of metal into existence and hurl it at a dude and he's lucky if he gets a reflex save.

Typically that's a ranged touch attack i.e. they only get their dodge bonus to AC but you still have to hit that decreased AC. The benefits of those kinds of spells are that they don't get a saving throw OR magic resistance while more traditional spells like magic missile can't miss but can be resisted.

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