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Mexican Deathgasm posted:If he thinks so incredibly little of us after the years we have spent in the city trying to be good people, then why in the hell should we trust him? At the very, very least we've shown ourselves not to be sociopathic (except when it comes to owning other people). If he honestly thinks that as soon as we were given the very bare minimum of details that we would go about trying to destroy the world, he is seriously hosed in the head. You mean to tell me that you trust goons to consistently do the right thing and not, let's say, be a drat fool who keeps pushing the boundaries, occasionally setting himself on fire? Hell, we've actually given him a reason, RIGHT NOW, to be afraid that we might get funny ideas of what the "right thing" is. Remember this? Diogines posted:"That you would ask about changing the nature of mankind makes me fear I have made a terrible mistake in giving you a choice and surely give cause those who fear you want children . I will chalk it up to youthful ignorance." It's not really just malice he needs to worry about, but stupidity on our own part. For instance, another possibility might be "Hey, you're saying these are very powerful weapons? Then I'll use that to destroy every demon nest in the world, saving the world from their threat forever! Nuclear winter? What's that?" He's going to need to trust that he will be able to tell us ALL the information he knows, that we will correctly absorb ALL of it, and that if we come to any silent, mistaken conclusions, we'll talk them out with him first before acting on them. That is a LOT of trust here. Perhaps too much, when dealing with great power.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:24
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Grognan posted:Enkidel: "Help! HELP! My children are going to be WMDs" "guys, a guy told me I need to be sterile because my kids will end the world." "How would your kids end the world?" "Uh, I dunno." "Well, who is the guy that told you this?" "Well, I know his name and that he's really strong." "...ok. How would your kids end the world." "I dunno... mightyness? He wouldn't tell me that either. But people will hurt me if I don't let him sterilize me!" "Who will hurt you? How will they hurt you? Why do they want to hurt you?" "..." "Didn't tell you any of that either, huh?" "No, but he says he loves me and he's always been nice to me! And there was a goat man that likes him too!" "What goat man? What did he tell you?" "Well, he's a goat man that saved my life once. But he didn't tell me anything either." "GOOD ENOUGH CUT OFF YOUR BALLS GOOD TIMES"
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Feb 13, 2014 02:28
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Numeron posted:Implied? When? Why would our blood not get weaker through generations? Thats what happens as families spread out, they incorporate more and more genetic material from many other families. Diogines posted:
Not quite as clear-cut as I had recalled, honestly. Thank you for making me check. Now, about that effortpost I've typed up...
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Feb 13, 2014 02:28
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Numeron posted:No, not just that - we can also look at the state of the world as it is now. The world survived without an apocalypse occuring as a result of Labaras's kids - and his descendants now control a not-insubstantial amount of otherwise monster filled wilderness - and thats a net gain is it not? The creation story posted:"On the Sixth Day..." I'm not sure what's going on with the Melachim in that picture, but I don't think she's screaming because her wings got covered in raspberry jelly.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:29
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^^I dunno, man, you ever try to get raspberry out of feathers? Credit where it is due: What I am about to explain was inspired by IRC conversations last night, principly comments and suggestions made by mood and SerSpook, as well as significantly by the fact that I'm presently reading The Better Angels of our Nature by Steven Pinker. I want to make the world safe. I want an end to war. I want the countryside to be free of monsters, a place where the hardy could make a farm without needing to be brave or suicidal. For reasons I outlined earlier, but will repeat here, having children is an inconvenience. We are staggeringly powerful, and it has been claimed that many of our children would be as well. Presuming they are not interfered with, we could have thousands of descendents within a century. Safeguarding the world becomes more difficult for everyone, ourselves included, in that scenario. All assuming no interference from above, when we are told it is guaranteed. I, as a component of Og's psyche, am concerned with this world. mood has suggested killing off all things supernatural, slaughtering monsters, Tudiya, Ishamal, El, and presumably finally ourselves, to usher in The Age of Man. SerSpook suggested the idea I would like to take and run with: An Academy. Found a city, or remold Zepath in our image. Make innovation a core tenet of our society. We needn't be good at it ourselves, beyond the ability to recognize a promising suggestion, such as Lefkandi's 'division-of-labor' thing. Build the technology of man so that they can stand against the forces of the wilds on their own, without the need of blooded superheroes. (Note: I disagree with mood's suggestion for two reason. Firstly, it violates Do Not Destroy, and my own inclination towards nonviolence. Secondly, I do not recognize the 'supernatural' vs. 'natural' distinction; I operate on whether something is in-the-world or not-in-the-world. It's possible the two could be reconciled if the supernatural were that which is in-the-world, yet not of-the-world. For example, Azzazel.) The Blood of Labaras is all but spent. I propose that we take it as our task to shepherd the world to the point where it is no longer needed, to end the childhood of men, and to set our world on a golden path of humanity everlasting. Let the world, let civilization, be our progeny.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:32
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Ask Azz: Are El and The Creator the same entity?
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Feb 13, 2014 02:34
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Tomn posted:You mean to tell me that you trust goons to consistently do the right thing and not, let's say, be a drat fool who keeps pushing the boundaries, occasionally setting himself on fire? We haven't done anything destructive to anyone so far, and we've had tons of chances. The closest we came is punching a childhood bully in the face a few times. In the future, we will be powerful enough to ask questions and expect answers, none of this "durr we'll tell you when you're older maybe but not really hurr" nonsense. Goons can be pretty retarded, but I highly doubt that when given actual information, that they would choose to do things that would destroy the world or harm mankind. Sterilization is ridiculous, because we can easily choose to have children if, and only if, we think it's the right thing to do. We don't need to make that decision now at the behest of a guy, albeit a trusted guy, that is saying basically "commit to sterilizing yourself because I say so, no I'm not telling you anything else." The fact is, if Ishmael wants us to make an adult decision like this, he needs to treat us like an adult, and stop letting his issues get in the way of that. It is immensely unfair, and also incredibly stupid, to ask an 18 year old, virtuous, righteous, celibate man to sterilize himself the day before his wedding based on nothing but vague warnings. He's being absolutely unreasonable, and it is insane for us to just be like, "yeah dude kill our balls, no prob."
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Feb 13, 2014 02:35
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I voted I, but I think we should decline marrying Naomi and not have kids, train with Ishamal, and see what happens. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me at this point.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:42
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Vavrek posted:Man, almost makes me feel like I was there. This is an excellent point. Changing my vote to Team Castration. Ishamel may not always be fully transparent with us but he's always acted in our best interest. As has Azzazel.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:45
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Tsyni posted:I voted I, but I think we should decline marrying Naomi and not have kids, train with Ishamal, and see what happens. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me at this point. You know, we can marry Naomi. We can make up any number of excuses as to why we can't put our penis in her vagina. Anything from being scared of having children, to some lie about a prophecy, to the ever popular "I'm not going to answer that, Naomi. There are great forces at work here." We can still pleasure her and adopt children.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:45
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I just want to be Big Boss in ancient times. Can't we just do that?
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Feb 13, 2014 02:45
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:You know, we can marry Naomi. We can make up any number of excuses as to why we can't put our penis in her vagina. Anything from being scared of having children, to some lie about a prophecy, to the ever popular "I'm not going to answer that, Naomi. There are great forces at work here." We can still pleasure her and adopt children. I propose a solution. 
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Feb 13, 2014 02:48
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:You know, we can marry Naomi. We can make up any number of excuses as to why we can't put our penis in her vagina. Anything from being scared of having children, to some lie about a prophecy, to the ever popular "I'm not going to answer that, Naomi. There are great forces at work here." We can still pleasure her and adopt children. That would be incredible. "I'm sorry, honey, but I can't." "You very visibly can, husband." "Great forces are at work here! I must not! THE PROPHECY!"
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Feb 13, 2014 02:48
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Vavrek posted:That would be incredible. "I'm sorry, honey, but I can't." "You very visibly can, husband." "Great forces are at work here! I must not! THE PROPHECY!" I said what what 
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Feb 13, 2014 02:50
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I want us to pray first since it does not eliminate either getting zapped or not. It does not look like there is motion toward that though. I am therefore in the Get Zapped, no children unless there is a possibility of praying first. My main reason is that I do not think we will be able to protect children. The Powers that Be may do things to prevent or eliminate children, but someone will eventually try to kidnap them and twist them to their own agenda. We will not be able to do anything about that for a long time, if ever. Giving our word, being celibate, etc... None of that works. They do not give a poo poo about who we are. They distrust our Nature. Also, this has all happened before which is why they are so batshit crazy about it. Its taken them all this time to try and fix it and the fix is fragile at best. Then along we come totally threatening all their work. It is amazing that they have not just killed us and indicates that it is more complicated for them because of whatever "truce" and agreement they have crafted. Dad's alive. He's in jail. He may be cross with his other children that they zapped our balls. Sogol fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 02:52
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:We haven't done anything destructive to anyone so far, and we've had tons of chances. The closest we came is punching a childhood bully in the face a few times. In the future, we will be powerful enough to ask questions and expect answers, none of this "durr we'll tell you when you're older maybe but not really hurr" nonsense. Goons can be pretty retarded, but I highly doubt that when given actual information, that they would choose to do things that would destroy the world or harm mankind. Sterilization is ridiculous, because we can easily choose to have children if, and only if, we think it's the right thing to do. We don't need to make that decision now at the behest of a guy, albeit a trusted guy, that is saying basically "commit to sterilizing yourself because I say so, no I'm not telling you anything else." I am racking my brains a bit, and I can't really come up with many chances where we could engage in anything destructive towards another human being which wouldn't have resulted in major negative consequences for us. Could you elucidate on these "tons of chances"? With regard to "easily choose to have children if it's the right thing to do" - uh, really? Contraceptives aren't a thing, remember? You're proposing that we never sleep with our dearly-beloved wife, ever, unless we want kids. We are a healthy young man who has been blue-balled for much of his life and now at last has an opportunity to relieve those blue balls. If you were Ishamal, is THAT a gamble you'd particularly want to make? Finally, you argue that we should be treated as an adult, and given information. For much of our life, however, we WERE children - it was only very recently that we became anything like adult, and frankly even then we were understandably unpredictable. It was only now that the issue was forced. You argue that telling us everything would be enough to alleviate those worries, but in the ICBM analogy you're essentially arguing that Ishamal should distill an entire college course on the Cold War complete with side-education in physics and science enough to understand the nature of the weapons in play plus enough of a historical grounding to understand the context of the Cold War etc. etc. into an entire night, and then hope that we don't misunderstand any of it. You understand that is something of a gamble, isn't it? You could argue that we should have been trusted and informed before that, but before that we were a goddamn teenager. How many loving parents do you know who would entrust the keys of a sports car to their teenagers, let alone the keys to the whole drat world?
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Feb 13, 2014 02:56
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Gonna slide in at the last second with an I vote even if it's late. Keep our vessel intact.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:57
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Voting is closed.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:01
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You return home. There are still three hours till sunrise, you try to catch a little sleep.  You hear the screams before you reach the hills of course and as you reach the top with your army, you can see the city below you, about two miles south. The sky is choked black with smoke but it has been for... you can't remember, odd. But you have not seen the sun in... how long? Long enough. A long time. Great blue fires dozens of miles long burn far away, putting great clouds of black smoke into the sky. Your forces are behind you by their thousands, with all of the implements of war. One of the scouts you sent ahead rushes in your direction, he kneels before you and hits his chest with his fist. "My King. The city is already fallen and those in the streets are slaughter-" You look ahead, you see the city clear enough despite the smoke which bellows up as much of the city burns. You see much of what occurs in this city, two miles distant. Whatever you choose to turn your focus upon. A great cry goes out through the city as the invaders slaughter all within. None of this situation seems odd in the slightest. You see a young boy cry out as he runs for his life and is cut down from behind. A dozen brothers are slaughtered as they try to buy time for their wives and daughters to run. A few make it away, most are already dying as you watching.  A young man screams out your name and begs you to save him. He must have known you were coming, or simply hoped? You do not reach him in time as one of the invaders is upon him before your eyes...  A young woman cries out the name of some being and begs to be saved. She is grabbed...  A deranged man has torn out the throat of his wife with his bare teeth. In a temple a number of priests drink poison as others wail that their god has truly abandoned them.  In another temple, an old man who seems vaguely familiar tells frightened men, women and children "He will NOT abandon you! He is coming to save you! I swear it!" Outside the temple men are cut down and butchered by the hundreds. You see them still fighting, it seems the defenders of the city tried to make their last stand there but their situation is truly hopeless. You scan the palace for your foe, you see him. The palace has already fallen and the magistrate is no more, his sons and daughters are being eaten by your foe's pets who even now race through the palace, hunting those who still remain.  Your do not see your foe but you feel him, he is somewhere in that mess. But he is only one such foe, you have many. None of this grisly sight is surprising to you in the least, you knew it was possible this was exactly what you would find when you arrived here, though you had hoped... you might have arrived in time to help. "....my King?" Your attention is drawn back to the scout, who still kneels before you. A few brief seconds have passed. "The siege finally broke through an hour before your coming, my King. The city is lost those who we can save are dead or dying." Your most trusted servants are beside you at the front of your army. One of your servants says "Put an end to the entire place my King and let us move on." Another agrees and adds "It would be a mercy to those who still live." Another disagrees saying "Every life is precious, the agony of those who shall perish does not outweigh those few we can still save. I urge we advance." Again, the first adviser says "And lose our own for those we can't save? Madness." Another adviser looks to you and says "Your servants are... tired oh King. Surely you cannot fault their loyalty to you these many battles... but what is the point? Can we even save ourselves, let alone these poor souls? We... we should just go my King. Leave these people to their fate and see if we can still change our own. We might yet still find a place to hide." His words are not without merit. You are tired. Very, very tired and with each battle you feel your strength fading... "COWARD!" One of your other servants cries. They all argue on, but the decision is yours. Each moment the situation in the city becomes worse... and worse... and worse. What is your decision? A. Raise your hands and destroy the city to give mercy to those who still live. March your army away, you can't afford to take further losses to your forces. You know that your foe will survive whatever destruction you might unleash which would destroy mere stones and masonry. B. Advance with your army to try to save those you can, knowing your own forces will take more losses. You will have to duel your foe... C. Move into the city on your own with great speed, to fight those forces your foe has brought and your foe as well. Your army can follow in your wake, if you advance on your own, attention will be drawn to you, giving those within the city time to flee D. Advance on your own. Your army will not follow. They have already suffered enough. E. Advance on your own and send your army away. F. Turn your back away from this accursed place. You are weary of war. Lead your army... someplace away and hope to somehow survive. G. Give up. Kill your army and yourself. If you want to, feel free to join us on irc #madgod on synirc.net. The channel tends to always have some people in it and is especially active when updates go up. If you do not know what IRC is, here is a web based chat version which will not require you to register or download anything: http://chat.mibbit.com/ Diogines fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 03:04
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A. Fight another day.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:09
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edit: irrelevant now.
Mexican Deathgasm fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 03:11
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Well, y'all wanted a message from the Melachim. Seems like this might be one. C. Let's go save Danal and probably duel our progeny. Face our fears.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:11
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The foe is totally going to be our evil son. Let's do this. C
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Feb 13, 2014 03:11
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B - Mercy, Do not Destroy.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:12
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C: Let's do this!
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Feb 13, 2014 03:15
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C
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Feb 13, 2014 03:16
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C - Deal with the consequences of your decisions, and try to save as many as possible from dying for your mistakes.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:16
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C.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:17
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C - We made a choice. Let's face the consequences with responsibility.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:18
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C, Let's have an epic duel with our yet-to-be-named Foe.
There Bias Two fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 03:19
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C Because a man does not quit before hardship
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Feb 13, 2014 03:20
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C. "A Man Does Not Quit Before Hardship"
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Feb 13, 2014 03:21
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:We also can pull out the first few while when we have sex, or not have vaginal sex, and tell Naomi that we're not quite ready for kids. We don't have to have kids right away, we're not Catholics from the 1800s. Where did you get your sex ed? Those don't work.  Pulling out -- Precum contains sperm, and ladies have totally gotten pregnant from that. Plus teenage boys aren't nearly as good at pulling out as they hope. But even if they pull out in time, pregnancy can still occur because precum contains sperm. Non-vaginal sex - Depends. Oral sex? Unlikely to result in pregnancy, but probably considered extremely perverse. Kids in this society grow up seeing animals have sex, so they have a pretty good idea about tab A going into slot A and not into slot C. Anal sex? Still has the perversion problem, and it is quite painful for the butt-haver if you don't know what you are doing (and we don't). Besides which, she can totally still get pregnant from that. The anus and the vagina are right next to each other. Semen oozes out of the anus, mixes with the lubricant oozing out of the vagina, and your little swimmers have a chance to go for the gold.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:22
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Althair posted:C  Boy, am I glad to be back to simple votes.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:23
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C The situation is bad, but we must do what we can.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:24
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C. I believe we are about to find out what happens if we choose not to get snipped.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:26
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C. Bust some chops. Kill us one of the prime demons.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:26
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Mercy is never misplaced they said, but is A really mercy? Would those we kill think so? I don't. Plus Do Not Destroy and all, not really the situation they meant, but if we can try without resorting to all out destruction, well... Going with C. Our strength fades, and perhaps we shouldn't waste what will be needed in the future, but drat it, this is what our strength is for. Protect our men, protect the people, let's lead them and let our strength be their weapon. And if this is a test from some Melachim, let's show them we won't hesitate to give our all to keep the world intact.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:27
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Oh thank god, a fairly simple vote. C. Save whom we can, and take as much of the burden off our men as reasonably possible. Now, of course, the big question is: Are we seeing the future, or the past?
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Feb 13, 2014 03:28
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C
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Feb 13, 2014 03:29
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